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ON A RESONANCE THEORY OF THOUGHT AND SPIRITUALITY
Karl Jaspers Forum ^ | August 21, 2001 | Varadaraja V. Raman

Posted on 08/02/2003 4:43:59 PM PDT by betty boop

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To: Right Wing Professor
A Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser

Especially note figures 3 and 4 and equations (10) on page 3.

141 posted on 08/05/2003 9:20:22 AM PDT by AndrewC
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To: betty boop
Thank you so much for your great post!

The subject of consciousness will be explored by science, the issue is whether science will have blinders on, only looking to material explanations. The opportunity is upon us to steer the debate to integrative science; IMHO, failure to do so would leave the public with a metaphysically naturalist worldview and thus work against all Judeo/Christian theology (among others.)

142 posted on 08/05/2003 9:50:46 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: AndrewC
Oh dear, this falls under the category of 'be careful what you ask for'. :-)

I'll go through it.

143 posted on 08/05/2003 11:31:42 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Right Wing Professor
Placemarker
144 posted on 08/05/2003 7:19:24 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)
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To: AndrewC
Silence is golden ...
145 posted on 08/08/2003 6:34:00 AM PDT by Phaedrus
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To: mfulstone; Alamo-Girl; Phaedrus; djf; unspun; Right Wing Professor; Doctor Stochastic; ...
Quantum mechanics describes the seemingly bizarre behavior of matter and energy at microscopic scales, e.g. that of atoms and sub-atomic particles. At that level particles may be in two or more places at the same time (quantum superposition), and particles widely separated in distance may nonetheless be intimately connected (quantum entanglement). These properties are used in quantum computation which offers potential solutions to the enigmatic features of consciousness. However quantum computation is disrupted by interactions with the environment ("decoherence"), and neurons and synapses seem too large for delicate quantum effects.

But neurons may be far more complicated than mere switches....

More complicated, indeed. Plus given the issues of quantum superposition and entanglement, it seems we need to account for consciousness at the level of the macroscopic brain, as well as the acoustical, electromagnetic, and quantum influences coming from outside the organic brain itself.

Grandpierre postulates that different processes of consciousness and different levels of the mind are structured by acoustical, electromagnetic, and quantum fields which are themselves products of a universal vacuum field that is the foundation of the Universe. He speculates that this ultimate foundational field is the primary consciousness (or information field) of the Universe.

Electrons, possibly photons, are hypothesized as "material carriers of thought." Grandpierre writes:

"The different vacuum waves couple us in a different scale to our bodies and brains, while the electromagnetic and electron waves present couplings between between our environment, our brains and local neural processes. These couplings to the different scales of the outer world represent couplings between our different mind levels, simultaneously. In this context it is important to note that these outer sources of information -- the Earth, the Sun, the stars, and the Universe as a whole -- do show a whole range of generalized organic processes.... [e.g., the ultrasensitive response of the Sun to changes in the planetary cores of its satellites].

"In my essay (1995a) I argued that every element of the Universe is a kind of double-pyramid consisting of hierarchichal levels; i.e., conscious mind, deep-mind, genetic-mind, cosmic mind, inner world pyramid of human being), Earth, Solar System, Galaxy, Universe (outer world-pyramid of a human being). The difference between the organisms of the Universe is only what is outer and what is inner for them, but the levels in their pyramids are similar, consiting of the same constituents. In this context it is interesting to note that our calculations show that the different organisms interact with the same range of universal fields, but their sizes determine what is "outer" and what is "inner" for them, and which are the long and short wavelengths compared to their physical sizes."

Thanks so much for the great link (to Stuart Hameroff) mfulstone. He and Roger Penrose look like they've found a very promising approach to understanding consciousness. To me, the really interesting thing to ponder is that these local processes of mind/brain coupling are being executed in universal fields....

146 posted on 08/08/2003 8:09:35 AM PDT by betty boop (We can have either human dignity or unfettered liberty, but not both. -- Dean Clancy)
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To: betty boop; mfulstone; Alamo-Girl; Phaedrus; djf; Right Wing Professor; Doctor Stochastic; ...
Thank you, JD.

To me, the really interesting thing to ponder is that these local processes of mind/brain coupling are being executed in universal fields....

While people may turn blind eyes as to what is most important (even when shown with blazing specific brilliance in our history --and continuingly so) it is inherently difficult to ignore what is most important after that: human beings.

147 posted on 08/08/2003 8:17:10 AM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love." | No I don't look anything like her but I do like to hear "Unspun w/ AnnaZ")
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To: unspun; Alamo-Girl; Phaedrus; JimVT; AndrewC
While people may turn blind eyes as to what is most important...it is inherently difficult to ignore what is most important after that: human beings.

Agreed, unspun. On my reading of Dr. Grandpierre, it turns out that human beings are indispensably important to the Universe, to the Cosmos.

148 posted on 08/08/2003 8:57:14 AM PDT by betty boop (We can have either human dignity or unfettered liberty, but not both. -- Dean Clancy)
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To: betty boop
Thank you so much for your excellent post! I'm still leaning more to dimensions than field, but the net result would be the same WRT consciousness.

I agree that Roger Penrose has a very interesting approach to the issues at hand, recognizing the physics of consciousness.

149 posted on 08/08/2003 8:57:16 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: unspun; betty boop
Thank y'all so much for your thoughts on the importance of man within the structure of all that there is.

I'm not sure where man would be in relative importance, but certainly neither at the top nor at the bottom.

150 posted on 08/08/2003 9:00:30 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
I'm still leaning more to dimensions than field, but the net result would be the same WRT consciousness.

Perhaps it is both. A-G, what I'm really wondering about, right about now, is whether this universal vacuum field (universal primary consciousness) relates to what the cosmologists call "dark energy." And whether "dark energy" is outside of our time concept. To me, it seems to have a quality of timelessness...of being in another time dimension than the one we humans normally experience....

Does this make any sense at all?

151 posted on 08/08/2003 9:05:46 AM PDT by betty boop (We can have either human dignity or unfettered liberty, but not both. -- Dean Clancy)
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To: Alamo-Girl; unspun
I'm not sure where man would be in relative importance, but certainly neither at the top nor at the bottom.

Agreed, A-G.

152 posted on 08/08/2003 9:07:00 AM PDT by betty boop (We can have either human dignity or unfettered liberty, but not both. -- Dean Clancy)
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To: Phaedrus
Well, it looks as if you've stirred things up.
153 posted on 08/08/2003 9:07:21 AM PDT by AndrewC
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To: Alamo-Girl
The subject of consciousness will be explored by science, the issue is whether science will have blinders on, only looking to material explanations.

A-G, if the cosmologists are telling us that matter accounts for only 4% of the total "content" of the Universe, on what basis do people think they can get 100% of their answers based on matter alone?

154 posted on 08/08/2003 9:10:35 AM PDT by betty boop (We can have either human dignity or unfettered liberty, but not both. -- Dean Clancy)
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To: betty boop
A-G, if the cosmologists are telling us that matter accounts for only 4% of the total "content" of the Universe, on what basis do people think they can get 100% of their answers based on matter alone?

Strange, but isn't that the same proportion of "junk" DNA in the human genome according to some?

155 posted on 08/08/2003 9:22:02 AM PDT by AndrewC
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To: betty boop
Perhaps it is both. A-G, what I'm really wondering about, right about now, is whether this universal vacuum field (universal primary consciousness) relates to what the cosmologists call "dark energy." And whether "dark energy" is outside of our time concept. To me, it seems to have a quality of timelessness...of being in another time dimension than the one we humans normally experience....

Does this make any sense at all?

Precisely, exactly, "right on" and "oh, yeah!"

That is my thinking as well and it does make sense - especially in light of this article:

Constraints on Extra Time Dimensions


156 posted on 08/08/2003 9:35:04 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop
A-G, if the cosmologists are telling us that matter accounts for only 4% of the total "content" of the Universe, on what basis do people think they can get 100% of their answers based on matter alone?

Indeed. It is rather unsettling to the assurances when one realizes how much is truly unknown.

157 posted on 08/08/2003 9:42:07 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Thanks so much for the link, A-G. Have printed it out and will study it over the weekend.

That you think my speculation might possibly "make sense" is deeply reassuring to me! Hugs!

158 posted on 08/08/2003 9:55:23 AM PDT by betty boop (We can have either human dignity or unfettered liberty, but not both. -- Dean Clancy)
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To: Alamo-Girl
p.s.: Oooooppps! What am I saying? That's one of the papers I studied last weekend!!! (The other being that F-theory paper...which I thought was a tad "overwrought.")

Maybe I'll read it again!

A-G, looking at the authors of "Constraints of Extra Time Dimensions, I notice three more Eastern European surnames.... It's amazing to see what has been going on behind the Iron Curtain all those many years, now that the captive countries' scientists are free to tell us about it.

159 posted on 08/08/2003 10:03:06 AM PDT by betty boop (We can have either human dignity or unfettered liberty, but not both. -- Dean Clancy)
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To: betty boop
Thank you for your reply!

I believe you might have read that one already! I posted it on the "Ground-breaking work in understanding of time" thread.

But that was before you began thinking in terms of gravity propagation of the extra time dimension you proposed as being manifest in this time dimension as dark energy. I believe the article may point in that direction.

I say that because dark energy does not appear in laboratory conditions (under gravity) but does in the vacuum of space, as if negative energy. If the gravity propagation is dimensional (wrt time) then it makes sense to me.

160 posted on 08/08/2003 10:07:15 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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