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ARMORED WARFARE: Gun-Vees Appear in Iraq
StrategyPage.com ^ | August 4, 2003 | Adam Geibel

Posted on 08/04/2003 7:23:28 AM PDT by overtaxed_canadian

August 4, 2003: August 2, 2003: At least two battalions in the 4th Infantry Division have modified their equipment to help them adjust to urban warfare by mounting .50 caliber M2 heavy machine guns on the back of their Humvees. These vehicles are now nicknamed "Gun-Vees" and resemble the "technicals" used by Somali fighters first encountered by Americans in Mogadishu ten years ago.

These up gunned vehicles are especially useful in battling the Islamic fighters in alleys and other tight urban spaces, where tanks and Bradley Fighting Vehicles cannot maneuver. The modified vehicle also provide an element of surprise, being far quieter than the tracked M1 Abrams or M2 Bradley's.


TOPICS: Extended News; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 4thid; gunvees; humvees; iraq; miltech; technicals; urbanwarfare

1 posted on 08/04/2003 7:23:28 AM PDT by overtaxed_canadian
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To: overtaxed_canadian

I'm wondering why mounting a machine gun on a humvee is considered "news" but it's a good excuse to post a picture...

2 posted on 08/04/2003 7:32:22 AM PDT by jriemer (We are a Republic not a Democracy)
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To: overtaxed_canadian
We heard from our son over the weekend, they are getting belt fed grenade launchers put on their truck along with 40mm GAFTI's (go ahead f*@#ing try it) guns
3 posted on 08/04/2003 7:34:47 AM PDT by boxerblues (God Bless the 101st, stay safe, stay alert and watch your backs)
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To: jriemer
I think what they mean is there is the standard turrent, and the cargo bay now has a weapon. A Browning pointed in each direction could pose a serious punch.
4 posted on 08/04/2003 7:36:57 AM PDT by Michael Barnes (carpe ductum)
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To: jriemer
I'm wondering why mounting a machine gun on a humvee is considered "news"

It's a 50-cal, Jim. It'll outgun anything an urban guerilla is likely to sport, it'll knock down a cinderblock wall. I think taking potshots at US troops is going to become a whole lot less fun.

5 posted on 08/04/2003 7:37:40 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Uday and Qusay are ead-day)
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To: overtaxed_canadian
Modern Desert Rats. I like it!
6 posted on 08/04/2003 7:38:57 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
And they are rapidly finding that there are fewer and fewer volunteers to go shoot at the Americans.
7 posted on 08/04/2003 7:40:31 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
The Rat Patrol rides again!
8 posted on 08/04/2003 7:41:09 AM PDT by randog (Everything works great 'til the current flows.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
All that is true, but it is also standard equipment. For example, light scouts (battalion and brigade level) and 2ACR all have hummvees with .50 cals, automatic grenade launchers and in the case of the 2ACR, TOW IIb anti-tank missiles. This is not new...maybe more people have the equipment, but it has been around for quite a while.
9 posted on 08/04/2003 7:42:25 AM PDT by blanknoone
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To: jriemer
You're right, this isn't news. The USMC used these in Somalia in early 1993 when it was "cowboys and indians" and the main mission was simply to get the armed militias off the streets. In addition to the 50bmg having considerably more killing power than the .30cals commonly mounted on "technicals", the Humvee can and did go right up and over the bad guy's vehicles on occasion.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

10 posted on 08/04/2003 7:44:24 AM PDT by Joe Brower ("Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: overtaxed_canadian
Whack-a-Raghead Bump.
11 posted on 08/04/2003 7:44:59 AM PDT by DoctorMichael (>>>>>Liberals Suk. Liberalism Sukz.<<<<<)
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To: jriemer; g'nad; JenB; rugerman
And it's a nice picture!

I wish I had one of these...

12 posted on 08/04/2003 7:47:13 AM PDT by 2Jedismom (HHD with 4 Chickens)
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To: overtaxed_canadian
Ma Deuce / JMB bump!

A true American genius.


13 posted on 08/04/2003 7:50:20 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (this space intentionally blank)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
I'd rather have a .50 and a .30. Shoot, a gatling gun would be cool.
14 posted on 08/04/2003 7:50:36 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: overtaxed_canadian
hmmm

The Marines have had these configurations for years. Mounting not only the .50 call but the Mark 19 40MM Grenade Launcher as well. That's a sweet piece of machinery. 240 Grenades a minute down range :)

16 posted on 08/04/2003 7:56:53 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (If you continue to do what you've always done, you will continue to get what you've always got.)
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To: AppyPappy
This is a variation of the "quad 50s" from the VietNam era. Those, however, were heavily armored, usually mounted on 2-ton trucks. They were used to protect convoys from attacks by the VC and would devastate the muslims - much more firepower than anything available short of tanks. Mounting the 50 cal weapons on Humvees makes them more maneuverable than the 2-tons, however. How are they armoring them - sandbags and kevlar panels from Blackhawks? I would like to see how a 7.62 minigun from a Blackhawk or Little Bird mounted on a HumVee would work - that would make for some real sporting contests...
17 posted on 08/04/2003 7:58:47 AM PDT by astounded
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To: astounded
Wouldn't sandbags add too much weight?
18 posted on 08/04/2003 8:04:34 AM PDT by bagman
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To: overtaxed_canadian
There's a company in Pennsylvania that mounts 50 caliber machine in guns in SUV's. I think the story was posted about a year ago.
19 posted on 08/04/2003 8:08:39 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: jriemer
The Rat Patrol is loose... :)
20 posted on 08/04/2003 8:10:07 AM PDT by ColdSteelTalon
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To: astounded; AppyPappy

Gun trucks of Viet Nam. The gun-vees bigger older brother.

21 posted on 08/04/2003 8:14:04 AM PDT by jriemer (We are a Republic not a Democracy)
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To: jriemer
Bored newsies have never seen MP vehicles at Fort Drum that have .50 cals on top.
So to them, it's "new".
22 posted on 08/04/2003 8:21:06 AM PDT by Darksheare ("I didn't say it wouldn't burn, I said it wouldn't hurt.")
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To: overtaxed_canadian
The hummer that my son used during his duty in Kuwait had a .50 cal onboard. That was part of his vehicle preps before shipping. When he wasn't doing medical transports, he would stand a watch with the hummer + .50 cal.
23 posted on 08/04/2003 8:24:34 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: astounded
There's a slightly armored version of the humvee that is affectionately called a 'herdshell' humvee.
It has supplementary armor, usually kevlar doors hood, and body panels beefed up with the stuff.
Nice vehicles, usually seen with MP units, but I did see one or two with the 42nd Infantry guys at Fort Drum one year during AT.
Not sure what the actual 'issue number' of such humvee variants is, I was only artillery and we never had anything bigger than a 1097 humvee other thna the deuce and 5 ton.
Though we DID have a Hemmet for about two weeks until someone noticed.
24 posted on 08/04/2003 8:25:47 AM PDT by Darksheare ("I didn't say it wouldn't burn, I said it wouldn't hurt.")
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To: astounded
7.62 minigun from a Blackhawk or Little Bird mounted on a HumVee would work

Instant Baathist kebab.

25 posted on 08/04/2003 8:34:34 AM PDT by pierrem15
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To: AppyPappy
they couldn't put the A-10's 30mm GAU-8/A Gatling gun on there, could they? : /
26 posted on 08/04/2003 8:38:13 AM PDT by Lost and Confused (<---- n00b!)
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To: pierrem15
I like the power of the .50 to shred walls in an urban alleyway at a distance. Like Ma Bell says, "Reach out and touch someone."
27 posted on 08/04/2003 8:57:55 AM PDT by wildbill
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To: blanknoone; hchutch
We need to bring back the 90MM recoilless rifle. Man-portable, but it has a good punch against all but the heaviest urban construction.
28 posted on 08/04/2003 9:01:03 AM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: overtaxed_canadian
The Rat Patrol returns!!!
29 posted on 08/04/2003 9:15:51 AM PDT by xp38
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To: Lost and Confused
put the A-10's 30mm GAU-8/A Gatling gun on there

And a second hum-vee right behind to carry the ammo.

30 posted on 08/04/2003 9:21:51 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: Poohbah
Agreed.
31 posted on 08/04/2003 9:38:16 AM PDT by hchutch (The National League needs to adopt the designated hitter rule.)
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To: RightWhale; Poohbah
How about that self-propelled Vulcan (M163, IIRC) for the job? Why did we ever retire those?
32 posted on 08/04/2003 9:39:15 AM PDT by hchutch (The National League needs to adopt the designated hitter rule.)
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To: hchutch
Why did we ever retire those?

1960s-vintage electronics. Good luck getting spares.

33 posted on 08/04/2003 9:54:13 AM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: Poohbah
Yes indeed! (to the 90MM recoiless rifle). Would have been of great benefit in Afghanistan. Are you familiar with the ONTOS? A very nasty looking thing the USMC used in VN.
34 posted on 08/04/2003 9:55:04 AM PDT by donozark
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To: Poohbah
Damn shame. Those things could really cut apart infantry or attack choppers and planes.

Too bad we couldn't re-wire the things...
35 posted on 08/04/2003 10:01:51 AM PDT by hchutch (The National League needs to adopt the designated hitter rule.)
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To: hchutch; Poohbah
I seem to remember it's light armor being mentioned as a reason for retiring it as well.
36 posted on 08/04/2003 10:04:37 AM PDT by Darksheare ("I didn't say it wouldn't burn, I said it wouldn't hurt.")
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To: overtaxed_canadian


How about one of these on the back of a dump truck?
37 posted on 08/04/2003 10:14:25 AM PDT by hemogoblin
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To: donozark; Poohbah
Yes indeed! (to the 90MM recoiless rifle). Would have been of great benefit in Afghanistan. Are you familiar with the ONTOS? A very nasty looking thing the USMC used in VN.


The ONTOS did have six 90MM recoiless rifles, they're manually loaded and don't have near the rate of fire that a battery of M2s would put out. When reloading, the crew is pretty well exposed to side and rear fire.

38 posted on 08/04/2003 10:15:36 AM PDT by jriemer (We are a Republic not a Democracy)
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To: jriemer
That's the beast! Nasty lookin' thing isn't it? Slow rate of fire, but imagine initial round of fire...
39 posted on 08/04/2003 10:18:46 AM PDT by donozark
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To: donozark
That's the beast! Nasty lookin' thing isn't it? Slow rate of fire, but imagine initial round of fire...

Just hope your shots are on target. It looks like the whole darn thing has to move for targeting adjustments.

40 posted on 08/04/2003 10:27:17 AM PDT by jriemer (We are a Republic not a Democracy)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
There's a company in Pennsylvania that mounts 50 caliber machine in guns in SUV's.

Ibis Tek, Butler PA. The gun retracts into the back when not in use, and is controlled by a joystick in the front passenger seat. Way cool. Want one


41 posted on 08/04/2003 10:37:55 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Java/C++/Unix/Web Developer === needs a job at the moment)
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To: SauronOfMordor
i saw a show on one of those. yes, they are damn cool : )
42 posted on 08/04/2003 10:48:13 AM PDT by Lost and Confused (<---- n00b!)
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To: AppyPappy
Yes, mini-guns would be excellent street sweepers.

.50 BMG PORCUPINES are needed in that cinder block/mud brick world of assassins.

The auto 40 mm grenades make fragging good room cleaners for the "compound" architectural style of the Baathist elites.

From 200 meters and more and certainly up close and personal, as long as our guys can kill, pin down, or make them hate us even more (DNC Politburo useful idiot mantra) may God bless our YOUNG men riding on the point of our spear.

Our guys are in serious danger because they do the work no politician would or could ever do. That also applies to the vast majority of Americans and criminal aliens.

We must supply our troops with all the destructive power and adequate personal armor they want in those hellholes hiding islamists.

Mr. Browning would be proud to have his hand in this pan-islamist world war against Americans.

The BMG designs provided for our first ground up supersonic fuselage profile in addition to providing accurate soft target arms for Americans.

(In 1971 I met a sgt. fresh from Nam who at close range had cut a water buffalo in half with his Ma Duce fearing danger hiding behind it. Anything but a clean sweep. He loved his BMG swearing that his .50s in his unit had saved hundreds of our grunts during his tour.)

Fire for effect.

I pray that our Gunvees carry enough ammo and luck.

Buy a .50 BMG Homeland Security rifle for your grandchildren, now. It is a true Patriot Act we can all do today.
43 posted on 08/04/2003 11:21:44 AM PDT by SevenDaysInMay (Federal judges and justices serve for periods of good behavior, not life. Article III sec. 1)
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To: hemogoblin
Omphalopsycites are not Navy men.
44 posted on 08/04/2003 11:28:21 AM PDT by SevenDaysInMay (Federal judges and justices serve for periods of good behavior, not life. Article III sec. 1)
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To: jriemer
DUSTERS are another interesting weapon from the VN era. 40MM on M-48 chassis, as I recall. Guys on FSBs loved them, as did the brass in base camps. NVA had an intense dislike of them. Wonder why...? HeeHee.... Not sure of practicality/manuverability in Iraq.

I suspect in both cases (Dusters/Ontos), both have been replaced by superior, proven weapons. I believe ONTOS was used extensively at Hue', Tet, 68, by Marines. Dusters were most assuredly used, with great effect, as described above.

Old fashioned soldier here. I am so damned old, when I was in the service we still used wooden rifles...and I still do. Absolutely LOVE M-14. Well, ok, M1A.

45 posted on 08/04/2003 11:41:34 AM PDT by donozark
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To: donozark
Camp Smith has a Duster on display at it's driveway enterence.
Not sure if it'll run at all..
It's been demilled and hasn't been maintained at all, sadly.
46 posted on 08/04/2003 11:46:26 AM PDT by Darksheare ("I didn't say it wouldn't burn, I said it wouldn't hurt.")
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To: donozark

Your "duster" was a bit harder to find and offically called an M-19.

This would also bring on the pain as well but wouldn't move very fast.

47 posted on 08/04/2003 12:02:59 PM PDT by jriemer (We are a Republic not a Democracy)
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