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XM-8: New U.S. Service Rifle?
Modern Firearms and Ammunition website ^ | unknown | Unknown

Posted on 08/07/2003 10:52:17 AM PDT by Long Cut

Caliber: 5.56x45 mm NATO
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: no data
Barrel length: no data
Weight: 2.67 kg empty
Rate of fire: no data
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds (STANAG)

The development of the XM8 Lightweight Assault Rifle was initiated by US Army in the 2002, when contract was issued to the Alliant Techsystems Co of USA to study possibilities of development of kinetic energy part of the XM29 OICW weapon into separate lightweight assault rifle, which could, in the case of success, replace the aging M16A2 rifles and M4A1 carbines in US military service. According to the present plans, the XM8 should enter full production circa 2005, if not earlier, several years before the XM-29 OICW. The XM8 (M8 after its official adoption) should become a standard next generation US forces assault rifle. It will fire all standard 5.56mm NATO ammunition, and, to further decrease the load on the future infantrymen, a new type of 5.56mm ammunition is now being developed. This new ammunition will have composite cases, with brass bases and polymer walls, which will reduce weight of the complete ammunition, while maintaining compatibility with all 5.56mm NATO weapons. Along with 20% weight reduction in the XM8 (compared to the current issue M4A1 carbine), this will be a welcome move for any infantryman, already overloaded by protective, communications and other battle equipment.

The XM8 will be quite similar to the "KE" (kinetic energy) part of the XM-29 OICW system, being different mostly in having a telescoped plastic buttstock of adjustable length, and a detachable carrying handle with the Picatinny rail.

Technical description. The XM8 is a derivative of the Heckler-Koch G36 assault rifle, and thus it is almost similar to that rifle in design and functioning. The key differences are the NATO-standard magazine housing that will accept M16-type magazines, the set of Picatinny rails on the forend, telescoped buttstock of adjustable length and a different scope, mounted on the Picatinny rail, built into the detachable carrying handle.


TOPICS: Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: ar; assaultrifles; aw; bang; banglist; g36; gunporn; guns; hecklerkoch; hk; m8; miltech; rhodesia; servicerifle; sl8; xm8
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This looks like the rifle which will bridge the gap between the OICW and the M16 series. Sorry if it's been posted before; I did a search and found naught.

The HK36, which the XM-8 is based on, uses the tried-and-true AR-180 operating system, which has provento be quite reliable and not as susceptible to dirt and fouling as the M-16 action.

My own opinion is that it needs only some good iron sights and possibly an option to change the cartridge to .243 Winchester or .260.

Pic to follow...stay tuned, and bring all comments.

1 posted on 08/07/2003 10:52:18 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: bang_list
Here it is...

Looks good to me. Assuming that the onerous AWB sunsets next year, I'll be looking for the semiauto-only version with intent to purchase.

2 posted on 08/07/2003 10:55:17 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Squantos; harpseal; Travis McGee; Shooter 2.5; Centurion2000; Poohbah; El Gato; All
POW-POW-POW-POW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whatchoo guys think?

3 posted on 08/07/2003 10:57:08 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Long Cut
.243 is a great round and I would love to see the troops reaction to the extra reach-out-and-touchability.
4 posted on 08/07/2003 10:57:15 AM PDT by RKV
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To: Long Cut
Wow, a space age M-16!!! Hopefully it packs more reliable firepower.
5 posted on 08/07/2003 10:58:38 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: All
Here's the HK-36, upon which the XM-8 will be based:


6 posted on 08/07/2003 10:59:32 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Long Cut
what's a picatinny rail?
7 posted on 08/07/2003 10:59:43 AM PDT by kallisti
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To: Long Cut
You're right. As soon as I saw the picture, it reminded me of the HK G36:


8 posted on 08/07/2003 11:00:39 AM PDT by Ex-Dem (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: kallisti
That's the notched-looking rail on the carrying handle and on the forearm. It permits easy, fast attachement of scopes, lights, and other accessories without change of zero. Most newer AR's have them. They are available for attachement to older ones, as well.
9 posted on 08/07/2003 11:01:55 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: kallisti
The parts of the rifle stock that can mount other goodies (e.g. flashlights). Look at the edges and see the grooves used to attach the add-ons.
10 posted on 08/07/2003 11:02:54 AM PDT by RKV
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To: Long Cut
For a lot of work you're better off with the Garand, m 14, or even M1 carbine.
11 posted on 08/07/2003 11:03:20 AM PDT by RLK
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To: Long Cut
We definitly need something bigger than .223

Personally, I would prefer to see .257 Roberts, it has a little longer point blank range then the other (non - magnum) calibers in that bore range

12 posted on 08/07/2003 11:04:13 AM PDT by Ford Fairlane
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To: kallisti
Universal (sort of) mount for optics, etc.
13 posted on 08/07/2003 11:04:13 AM PDT by NYFriend
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To: Long Cut
Looks good to me. Assuming that the onerous AWB sunsets next year, I'll be looking for the semiauto-only version with intent to purchase. The assault weapons Ban will sunset on 9-14-04 its just a question of whether legislation will pass to renew it.
14 posted on 08/07/2003 11:05:43 AM PDT by conservativefromGa (www.awbansunset.com)
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To: All
Here's the tech details of the HK-36...

Technical description.
From the technical point of view, the G36 is a radical departure from all the previous HK rifles, based on the proven G3 roller-delayed system. The G36 is a conventional gas operated, selective fire rifle, made from most modern materials and using most modern technologies.

The receiver and most of the others external parts of the G36 are made from reinforced polymers, with steel inserts where appropriate. The operating system appears to be a modification of the older American Armalite AR-18 rifle, with its short stroke gas piston, located above the barrel, square-shaped bolt carrier and the typical rotating bolt with 7 locking lugs. Of cause, there also are many differences from the AR-18. The bolt carrier rides on a single guide rod, with the return spring around it. The charging handle is attached to the top of the bolt carrier and can be rotated to the left or to the right. When not in use, the charging handle aligns itself with the axis of the weapon under the pressure of its spring, and reciprocates with the bolt group at the top of the receiver. The gas block is fitted with the self-adjustable gas valve, that expels all the used gases forward, away from the shooter. The ejection window is located at the right side of the receiver and features a spent cases deflector to propel the ejected cases away from the face of the left-handed shooter.

All the major parts are assembled on the receiver using the cross- pins, so rifle can be disassembled and reassembled back without any tools.

The typical HK trigger unit is assembled in a separate plastic housing, integral with the pistol grip and the triggerguard. Thanks to this feature, a wide variety of firing mode combinations can be used on any rifle, simply by installing the appropriate trigger unit. Standard options are single shots, full automatic fire, 2 or 3 round bursts in any reasonable combinations. The default version is the single shots + 2 rounds burst + full auto. The ambidextrous fire selector lever also serves as a safety switch.

G36 is fed from the proprietary 30-rounds box magazines, made from translucent plastic. All magazines have special studs on its sides, so two or three magazines can be clipped together for faster reloading. The magazine housings of the G36 are made as a separate parts, so G36 can be easily adjusted to the various magazine interfaces. By the standard, the magazine release catch is located just behind the magazine, in the G3 or AK-47 style, rather than on the side of the magazine housing (M16-style). A 100-round Beta-C dual drum magazines of US origins also can be used (these magazines are standard for the MG36 squad automatic versions of the G36).

The side-folding, sturdy skeletonized buttstock is standard on all G36 rifles. It folds to the right side and does not interfere with rifle operation when folded.

The standard sighting equipment of the G36 consists of the TWO scopes - one 3.5X telescope sight below, with the second 1X red-dot sight above it. The sights are completely independent, with the former suitable for long range accurate shooting, and the latter suitable for the fast target acquisition at the short ranges. Both sights are built into the plastic carrying handle. The export versions of the G36 are available with the single 1.5X telescope sight, with the emergency open sights molded into the top of the carrying handle. The subcompact G36K Commando version is available with the integral Picatinny-type scope and accessory rail instead of the carrying handle and standard sights.

The standard G36 rifles can be fitted with the HK AG36 40mm underbarrel grenade launcher. It also can be fitted with the bayonets. Interestingly enough, G36 uses an AK-74-type bayonets, which are left from the now non-existent NVA (East Germany Army) stocks.

Source: Modern Firearms and Ammunition Site

15 posted on 08/07/2003 11:05:55 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Long Cut
"Whatchoo guys think?"

Well, it's certainly futuristic looking, but is it actually an effective weapon?

16 posted on 08/07/2003 11:06:05 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: Long Cut; g'nad; osagebowman; 300winmag; Ramius
Could make a good boat gun. I like the idea of .243.
17 posted on 08/07/2003 11:06:15 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Long Cut
Wait a second. That thing looks like . . . an assault rifle!

Someone could get hurt. Shouldn't it be on the list of banned weapons?
18 posted on 08/07/2003 11:07:02 AM PDT by governsleastgovernsbest
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To: Long Cut
Weight: 2.67 kg empty

WOW, OK I want one.

19 posted on 08/07/2003 11:07:20 AM PDT by usurper
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To: conservativefromGa
" The assault weapons Ban will sunset on 9-14-04 its just a question of whether legislation will pass to renew it."

It'll sunset unless it becomes an issue in the election, which it will if we have some crazed shooting massacre just before it.

20 posted on 08/07/2003 11:08:52 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Sam Cree
How's this for a novel idea...chamber it for the 5.45x39 Russian. That would eliminate the close quarters effectiveness problem of the 5.56 without losing the range or weight advantages.
21 posted on 08/07/2003 11:09:49 AM PDT by Woahhs
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To: RLK
"For a lot of work you're better off with the Garand, m 14, or even M1 carbine."

I agree with you on the first two, but I disagree with you on the M1 carbine. From what I've read about the Korean War the M1 carbine wasn't even powerful enough to punch through the heavy quilted lining of a Chinese field jacket!

22 posted on 08/07/2003 11:09:51 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: Long Cut
Funny thing. I don't see a bayonet lug on the rifle. This is supposed to be an Infantry service rifle?
23 posted on 08/07/2003 11:12:08 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: Long Cut; RKV; NYFriend
thanks all for the info. that was my guess, but i wasn't sure. btw, was the name from the place it was developed?
24 posted on 08/07/2003 11:12:15 AM PDT by kallisti
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To: Long Cut
The key differences are the NATO-standard magazine housing that will accept M16-type magazines

Good news for us civies.

25 posted on 08/07/2003 11:12:16 AM PDT by RogueIsland
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To: RLK
"For a lot of work you're better off with the Garand, m 14, or even M1 carbine."

Fine weapons,all. However, I would like to own the same rifle our Soldiers use. I do not own an AR-15 variant because I disliked the design. Perhaps this will be better.

Actually, were price no object, I'd own them all. However, right now i'm low on cash-o-line so I'm holding out.

26 posted on 08/07/2003 11:12:35 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: *bang_list; AAABEST; wku man; SLB; Travis McGee; Squantos; harpseal; Shooter 2.5; ...
Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!
27 posted on 08/07/2003 11:13:00 AM PDT by Joe Brower ("We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop)
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To: Destructor
"Funny thing. I don't see a bayonet lug on the rifle. This is supposed to be an Infantry service rifle?"

The picture is a computer-generated image of what it is expected to look like. Be assured, it'll change before it is actually issued.

28 posted on 08/07/2003 11:14:28 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Destructor
From what I've read about the Korean War the M1 carbine wasn't even powerful enough to punch through the heavy quilted lining of a Chinese field jacket!

-------------------

I'm a combat shooter. I've tested firearms and ammunition. Within 100 yards a carbine slug will go through 10 inches of pine board and still kill. The problem with the carbine is people weren't trained on it.

29 posted on 08/07/2003 11:14:48 AM PDT by RLK
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To: Long Cut
I, too, would like to see such a gun chambered in something a little heavier than the 5.56. The latter round is good for "varmints" and has served fairly well, but the full-tilt 7.62 x 51 (.308) really has solid knock-down power. The trouble is, the guns chambered for the .308 are much heavier and quite a bit larger than the M16-type AR series. The AR 10 and the SR 25 are fine AR-types, but they weigh in at 10 pounds (or more with optics). The problem with the AR clones and maybe even this new design is that the .308 family of cartridges (like the .243 and the .360) require a .473 inch bolt face. That in turn requires a larger bolt carrier, and a larger reciever, etc. The AR series will chamber and fire the 7.62 x 39 (30 Russian), but that round requires a smaller bolt face than the .308. Now, if one could build an AR-type rifle using the dimensions of the AR 10 and use new materials like maybe a ceramic barrel, then one could get the weight down to acceptable levels and then chamber it in something like the 7mm-.08. That would bridging the gap between so-called assault rifles and full-size battle rifles.
30 posted on 08/07/2003 11:15:05 AM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: kallisti
dont know off hand
31 posted on 08/07/2003 11:15:06 AM PDT by RKV
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To: Destructor
Note the lug on the HK-36. Expect a similar one on the XM-8.
32 posted on 08/07/2003 11:15:43 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Destructor
The M1 carbine was a true carbine - it fired the equivalent of a pistol round.
33 posted on 08/07/2003 11:16:08 AM PDT by jdege
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To: Long Cut
It'll sunset unless it becomes an issue in the election, which it will if we have some crazed shooting massacre just before it.

And these crazed shooting massacres do happen at convenient times, don't they? Something I noticed back in 1990

34 posted on 08/07/2003 11:18:00 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Java/C++/Unix/Web Developer === needs a job at the moment)
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To: All
THe HK-36, field-stripped...


35 posted on 08/07/2003 11:18:31 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Long Cut
...yeah, but does it have a compass in the stock and a thing that tells time?
36 posted on 08/07/2003 11:20:40 AM PDT by danneskjold
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To: All
And, the carbine or "commando" version...

All in all, it looks good. Even in 5.56mm, it will be a definite improvement on the going-on-40-year-old M16 series.

37 posted on 08/07/2003 11:21:26 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Long Cut
goodbye mp5!
38 posted on 08/07/2003 11:22:35 AM PDT by Woahhs
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To: Long Cut
This a Knight's Industries AR 47; an AR-type that is chambered for the 30 Russian:

Note the use of AK 47 magazines

39 posted on 08/07/2003 11:23:24 AM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: SauronOfMordor
Which is why we ALL, as gun owners and enthusiasts, MUST let our feelings be known to our elected REPRESENTATIVES, as often and as loudly as possible.

We might also point out that elections in America are typically LOST by those who advocate the banning of personal arms.

40 posted on 08/07/2003 11:23:42 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: Long Cut
You know its gotta have UN and NATO compatibility leaving out the possibility of more powerfull cartridge at least of the 30 cal variety
New tooling new magazines new cartridge replace all the gear and parts...
I would rather see a piston version of the AR using heavier bullets...
and in the rifle platoon give half the troops heavier rifles..best bet imo would be the FN-FAL
platform
Keep the carbine length ARs for Radio Operators Medics Officers and real eschelon troops
Oh yeah and while we are at it... a high cap 10mm handgun would be nice to
41 posted on 08/07/2003 11:24:37 AM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: Destructor
Read the same thing about the Carbine in the Korean War, can't remember whether it was a result of the extreme cold, or was always that underpowered.
42 posted on 08/07/2003 11:25:31 AM PDT by Joseph_CutlerUSA (I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it.)
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To: Long Cut
I Want One.

BTTT
43 posted on 08/07/2003 11:26:20 AM PDT by hattend
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whatever we do we need to get the stupid recoil spring out of the stock...
44 posted on 08/07/2003 11:29:02 AM PDT by KneelBeforeZod (If God hadn't meant for them to be sheared, he wouldn't have made them sheep.)
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To: hattend
We all do
45 posted on 08/07/2003 11:29:42 AM PDT by John Will
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To: Long Cut
It'll sunset unless it becomes an issue in the election, which it will if we have some crazed shooting massacre just before it.

If it is renewed, regardless of how many massacres there may or may not be, the Republicans can kiss the House goodbye. Tom Delay had better keep the troops in line.

46 posted on 08/07/2003 11:33:33 AM PDT by Orangedog (Soccer-Moms are the biggest threat to your freedoms and the republic !)
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To: Long Cut
being different mostly in having a telescoped plastic buttstock

Huh-huh-huh-huhuhuh-huh-huh-huh!

47 posted on 08/07/2003 11:34:48 AM PDT by Lunatic Fringe (When news breaks, we fix it.)
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To: Long Cut; bang_list; kallisti
No one has addressed the 'kinetic energy' technology mention in the article. If that's what I think it is (some type of post detonation acceleration of the bullet) all of the discussions about .223 being an inadequate round go out of the window.

Can someone expound on this for me?

48 posted on 08/07/2003 11:36:30 AM PDT by ericthecurdog
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To: Joe Brower; SLB; Travis McGee; Squantos; wardaddy; harpseal; Shooter 2.5
It's light for sure. I'm wondering if something so light is going to be able to handle the heat and punishment of full auto (if they're even thinking about making any such) with high power ammo. MP-5s et al use mostly pistol ammo.

Also less solid weapons tend to affect accuracy and worsen recoil. Not that recoil is a major issue when we're talking 5.56 anyway.

Just throwing some stuff out there.
49 posted on 08/07/2003 11:36:39 AM PDT by AAABEST
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To: 45Auto
Robinson Arms has a similar product, based on their M-96 rifle...

...the RAV-02.

50 posted on 08/07/2003 11:38:34 AM PDT by Long Cut
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