Very true, but we have a hole card on our side which is basically your screen name. People who are at least minimally open minded in discussing issues, (there's no point in even talking to someone with a closed mind) are willing to question their assumptions. They are also willing to question what Dan and Tom and Peter and the NYT have preached because they have all seen these people twist and distort over the years. Look at the polls on "media credibility" --- they are low across the board. No one really trusts them much. People basically take what they say with a grain of salt and are willing to hear the other side. Give them facts in the form of logical questions and you will see the light come on.