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Newsweek column on outsourcing
Newsweek ^ | 8-07-2003 | Michael Rogers

Posted on 08/08/2003 7:41:52 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us

Aug. 7, 2003 / 5:32 PM ET Readers on outsourcing: I’ve been corresponding with readers this week about two Newsweek pieces, one on the “jobless recovery” phenomenon and the other on offshore outsourcing. It’s a major hot-button topic, particularly among IT workers, but the mail for the most part has been quite reasoned, if somewhat sorrowful and resigned. A few readers asked some pointed questions:

Name: Marc Hansen Hometown: Seattle When all the Microsoft, Oracle, and IBM software production has been outsourced offshore, and when all Intel factories are completely automated, and when all Home Depot stores have self-check-out lines. ... my question is: Who, in America, will be able to afford the food that the McDonald’s robots cook?

Name: EV Hometown: Annapolis, Md. Where do all of these upper level managers think they will be when everyone has been outsourced? Guess they better learn Hindi or one of the other 18 dialects. You are only a manager if there is someone left to manage.

Name: Daniel E. Platt Hometown: Putnam Valley, N.Y. Sixteenth century Spain was quite rich on gold from America. While they funded the industrial revolution in the rest of Europe, they were largely left behind in the end. Are we doomed to the same fate? Or should we purchase a future at the cost of lower profit margins now?

Rogers replies: All good questions. Here are some personal tales from the trenches:

Name: Toni Klinger Hometown: Massillon, Ohio I am so angry. My husband is 59 and lost his job to Canada four months ago. Yesterday, my sister-in-law was notified that her skip-tracing job was going to India. Hey, no problem, she’s only been with the company for 21 years! I have never been so frustrated in my life. People in their 50s just can’t start over. I hate life!

Name: G. Popsworth Hometown: Dallas, Texas I am struggling with what to suggest to my children for a course of study at college. It is becoming more and more difficult for college grads to find employment. Now with outsourcing rampant, they need something stable for their career opportunities. A small town dentist, doctor or lawyer might be appropriate.

Name: Thela Jinseet Hometown: Clinton, N.J. Here’s my story: I am a journalist for an online publication, and I’m bracing for impact. My employer’s entire technical staff is from India, making up nearly 50% of the employees here. The owners of the company are also Indian and they outsource to a team in India. Our Indian employees are a real bargain because they work ungodly hours: 10- to 12-hour days every day and on the weekends. They are also extremely bright. And it’s for low pay. But there’s more. My husband lost his electrical engineering job four days after 9-11 from a major Japanese company that closed its plant and moved its operations to France. Despite graduating with honors from a top university, it took more than a year for him to find work. And just in time: We had two weeks of unemployment benefits left, which was barely enough to pay for our mortgage. This time, he saw a substantial cut in pay. I am truly frightened after our experience. I am scared to buy another house. (We had to sell ours for his new job.) I am scared to have a baby. We can’t afford to save for retirement. Pensions are a thing of the past. My company doesn’t even have a 401(k) plan or even direct deposit for paychecks. I fear we will be poverty-stricken when we retire at 75. Why isn’t Congress listening?

Rogers replies: There were also some suggestions about what to do:

Name: Bill Hometown: Roswell, Ga. Outsourcing customer service jobs overseas is a double-edged sword. One side slashes the number of jobs that are available to U.S. employees and the other side slashes the income taxes that the federal government can collect. Uncle Sam ends up funding unemployment benefits for U.S. citizens who are denied jobs that have been sent overseas. One solution may be to penalize these outsourcing companies in the form of a negative subsidy so that they can help pay benefits for the unemployed.

Name: Mike K. Hometown: Aurora, Ill. Outsourcing makes for some really profitable companies, but fewer consumers have the money to buy that company’s products. That profit won’t last for long. Remember the big “Buy American” kick back in the 80s? I think we’re on the way to the “Hire American” craze. Find out who outsources and who doesn’t and support those who support America by hiring Americans.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: freetrade; outsourcing
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There are hundreds more of your fellow citizens on this list. Hello Mr. President, we are paying your salary, are you listening? If not, it doesn't matter, salary or not, we vote.
1 posted on 08/08/2003 7:41:52 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: samuel_adams_us
Um, your big "buy American" push in the 1980s was a joke. What HELPED (along with lower taxes) to revitalize the economy was that U.S. industry (especially cars, steel, and IT) got so competitive because of the jobs it laid off that it could afford to grow again. Ever hear of Nucor Steel? Probably not. While all the attention was on U.S. Steel's "downsizing," Nucor was creating the world's most efficient plants and the first truly integrated steel rolling mill using scrap iron as a raw material. Nucor's management to plant ratio was LESS THAN ONE. That's good. It means that you don't have layers of white collar bureaucrats between the front office and the assembly line, making products more effective. Nucor's steel output and overseas sales rose, just as did hundreds of IT/telecom firms that were relatively unregulated and which were not "smokestack industries." While the rust belt people complained about losing their jobs, a whole new wave of Americans were getting jobs that didn't even exist ten years before.

The same thing is happening now, for those not obsessed with India.

2 posted on 08/08/2003 7:51:08 AM PDT by LS
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To: samuel_adams_us
This is the making of the largest national crisis in modern times other than the wars.
3 posted on 08/08/2003 7:51:50 AM PDT by tkathy
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To: samuel_adams_us
AFL-CIO is pressuring Congress on the abuses to the 2 tmeporary work visa programs.

Just one well publicized indictment of a major company by the Justice Department for visa abuse would 1) Scare others into compliance, and 2) take away the issue from dems.

4 posted on 08/08/2003 7:52:38 AM PDT by Semper Paratus
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To: LS
Really, what jobs are being created here in the States? You care to list them? I didn't think so.
5 posted on 08/08/2003 7:53:12 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: Semper Paratus
I can hardly wait!
6 posted on 08/08/2003 7:53:57 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: samuel_adams_us
The government will have just about as much luck stopping offshoring as the RIAA has with stopping the downloading of music.
7 posted on 08/08/2003 7:54:45 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
Really, kind of like the EU taking out microsoft.
8 posted on 08/08/2003 7:55:37 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: LS
The same thing is happening now, for those not obsessed with India Then why according to the Department of labor statistics did the number of jobs in the USA fall every month fo rthe last six months. Please for a change cite some facts traitor.
9 posted on 08/08/2003 8:00:41 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: dfwgator
The government will have just about as much luck stopping offshoring as the RIAA has with stopping the downloading of music.

Can you say tariffs? A tax on offshoring easily collectable and not cost effective to avoid.

10 posted on 08/08/2003 8:01:59 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: samuel_adams_us
Do you think you have a right to a job?
11 posted on 08/08/2003 8:02:39 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: clamper1797; sarcasm; BrooklynGOP; A. Pole; Zorrito; GiovannaNicoletta; Caipirabob; Paul Ross; ...
ping
12 posted on 08/08/2003 8:02:56 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: tkathy
This is the making of the largest national crisis in modern times other than the wars.

What, is today Hyperbole Day?

13 posted on 08/08/2003 8:03:11 AM PDT by Mr. Bird
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To: DugwayDuke
No, I have the right to compete for a job in a fair competition. BTW, I have a job, just standing up for my fellow man, try it some time.
14 posted on 08/08/2003 8:03:46 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: harpseal
Define what exactly "offshored software" means. Does it mean if one small component was developed in India, does that make it an "offshored product?" The only people that are going to benefit from these tariffs are the lawyers who get to tie up the courts as they try to split hairs on just what exactly constitutes "offshored software."
15 posted on 08/08/2003 8:07:51 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: harpseal
"Can you say tariffs? A tax on offshoring easily collectable and not cost effective to avoid."

I can say "tarriffs". Can you say: "job subsidies"? Why do you want the federal government to subsidize your income? When you call for tarriffs to protect your job, you are calling for increased prices for some so you can enjoy an increased life style at their expense. Sounds like a theme more at home in the democrat party.
16 posted on 08/08/2003 8:10:24 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: samuel_adams_us
I stand up for my fellow man when I call protective tarriffs what they are "job subsidies". Subsidizing jobs is neither "fair" nor is it "competition".
17 posted on 08/08/2003 8:11:43 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: DugwayDuke
A job isn't a right, per se. But the powers that be have a fiduciary responsibility to the nation that the economy be stable -- and be job-rich. Capitalism is not a work program for some other nation.

If you think this is not going to come home to roost in a major way in the not-so-distant future, you are sorely, SORELY mistaken. The 6.1% unemployment rate does not include the legion that have already blown through their benefits...


18 posted on 08/08/2003 8:12:19 AM PDT by Dirk McQuickly
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To: harpseal
It is easier to read the article from the link provided and I have copied here:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/767146.asp?0cv=CB20&cp1=1

Within this article are the following links to 2 other recent MSNBC articles on this topic:

"Jobs Go Global"
http://www.msnbc.com/news/947478.asp

"Men at Overwork"
http://www.msnbc.com/news/946725.asp
19 posted on 08/08/2003 8:13:25 AM PDT by LibertyAndJusticeForAll
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To: Mr. Bird
This is the making of the largest national crisis in modern times other than the wars.
What, is today Hyperbole Day?


To many of us it is a severe crisis. We see our jobs going overseas and see immirgrants coming to compete for those that are left. If you think something is a crisis it is. Bush would be well advised to consider this nd this issue soon. I do hope he wins, but if thing do not get better it will hurt his reelection next year.
20 posted on 08/08/2003 8:14:47 AM PDT by scottlang
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To: LS
Very well put!
21 posted on 08/08/2003 8:15:13 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: DugwayDuke
Competing for a job when the other guy makes less than minimum wage and I have paid for his education with my tax dollars and he isn't paying income tax here in the United States isn't fair either. Remember we are our own soverign nation, this isn't the United States of India, make the playing field level and Americans can kick the s... out of any one else on any playing field, even when the field is not level we still can for the most part.
22 posted on 08/08/2003 8:15:30 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: scottlang
nd=notice
23 posted on 08/08/2003 8:16:32 AM PDT by scottlang
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To: LS
Tell me where this is happening. I want to apply.
24 posted on 08/08/2003 8:17:46 AM PDT by RaceBannon
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To: Dirk McQuickly
If a job is not a right, then why should the federal govenment use it's powers to ensure that someone has a job?

BTW, I heard this same BS back in the 70s and 80s when Japan was going to "own America".
25 posted on 08/08/2003 8:18:44 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: DugwayDuke
When you call for tarriffs to protect your job, you are calling for increased prices for some so you can enjoy an increased life style at their expense.

I take it you would prefer the job loss of your neighbor so you can enjoy an increased life style at his expense?

26 posted on 08/08/2003 8:19:10 AM PDT by RogueIsland
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To: DugwayDuke
You're just standing up for foreigners, for whom Americans have already sacrificed quite enough.

I'm standing up for my fellow Americans and I'm standing on the solid ground of the first 200 years of American history, as well as many previous Republican Party platforms, when I claim that Protective Tariffs make a strong America and build a strong middle-class.
27 posted on 08/08/2003 8:19:29 AM PDT by LibertyAndJusticeForAll
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To: scottlang
I do hope he wins, but if thing do not get better it will hurt his reelection next year.

Amen. For 20 years now corporate America has had the advantage of a business-friendly electorate. This was because of the assumption that, even though there was pain at times, when businesses were making more money they would expand and create jobs for Americans. This is no longer the case.

28 posted on 08/08/2003 8:19:50 AM PDT by murdoog (i just changed my tag line)
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To: mvpel
"But, in general, the protective system of our day is conservative, while the free trade system is destructive. It breaks up old nationalities and pushes the antagonism of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie to the extreme point. In a word, the free trade system hastens the social revolution. It is in this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, that I vote in favor of free trade." ~ Karl Marx, On the Question of Free Trade, January 9, 1848
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/01/09ft.htm#marx


"Communists and socialists feel sure that setting up international “free” trade systems which impose regulations chuck full of intrigues, redistribution plans, arbitrary law, and interdependence schemes, will win out against the conservative interests of every free nation. What could be better than to use “free” trade to reverse the advantage of the relatively free, moral, prosperous, and strong nations of the Earth, so that the tyrannical, amoral, poor, and weak nations of the socialist bloc might get the upper hand? What could be a more cunning approach than to market the idea that those who oppose “free” trade are enemies of freedom?"
http://www.newsmax.com/commentarchive.shtml?a=2000/6/27/105655

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/957315/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/957315/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/956435/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/956924/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/956820/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/955929/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/956686/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/956628/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/956517/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/955929/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/954156/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/956435/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/956461/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/957331/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/957635/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/957588/posts




29 posted on 08/08/2003 8:19:51 AM PDT by RaceBannon
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To: samuel_adams_us
Nor, is it fair to increase the cost of goods and services for some to subsidize the income of others. That's welfare.
30 posted on 08/08/2003 8:20:11 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: RogueIsland
"I take it you would prefer the job loss of your neighbor so you can enjoy an increased life style at his expense?"

Do you prefer that the federal government use it's powers to take my money to give to my neighbor so he can enjoy the lifestyle he would prefer? Exactly how does this differ from a welfare program?
31 posted on 08/08/2003 8:21:43 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: dfwgator
>The government will have just about as much luck stopping offshoring as the RIAA has with stopping the downloading of music.

The govt should at least cease subsidizing the job exodus by ELIMINATING the L1 and H1B visa programs. They are subsidies for companies who want to flood the market with cheap labor.

32 posted on 08/08/2003 8:21:52 AM PDT by Dialup Llama
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To: Howlin; Ed_NYC; MonroeDNA; widgysoft; Springman; Timesink; dubyaismypresident; Grani; coug97; ...
Don't let anyone fool you. This is going to be the key issue of the 2004 election. Not race, not gay marriage, not illegal immigration, and barring a new attack, not even the war.

Now that America is being outsourced into oblivion, the clamor will increase, calling on the Administration to find a way to stop the hemmoraging of jobs to offshore.

And while those jobs continue to move to Bangalore or Mumbai or Delhi, the Democratic candidates (read Hillary) will promise to insulate Americans from the pain like an opiate.

Just damn.

If you want on the new list, FReepmail me. This IS a high-volume PING list...

33 posted on 08/08/2003 8:22:00 AM PDT by mhking
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To: DugwayDuke
Increase the cost of goods? What, companies charge what the need to in order to make a profit, that's business, with the savings from shipping the jobs overseas they are not lowering their prices, they are putting the profits in their pocket. I think you need to buy a clue.
34 posted on 08/08/2003 8:22:17 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: LibertyAndJusticeForAll
"I'm standing up for my fellow Americans and I'm standing on the solid ground of the first 200 years of American history, as well as many previous Republican Party platforms, when I claim that Protective Tariffs make a strong America and build a strong middle-class."

While you're at it, why don't you admit you want a welfare program that subsidizes the income of certain American workers?
35 posted on 08/08/2003 8:23:09 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: Dialup Llama
Fine, get rid of the H1-Bs, I agree. But H1-Bs are a drop in the bucket, compared to the threat of offshoring. If anything, dropping the H1-Bs, will only accelerate offshoring. But hey, if it makes you feel better, fine.
36 posted on 08/08/2003 8:24:09 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: samuel_adams_us
"Increase the cost of goods? What, companies charge what the need to in order to make a profit, that's business, with the savings from shipping the jobs overseas they are not lowering their prices, they are putting the profits in their pocket. I think you need to buy a clue."

So, not only do you want a welfare subsidy, you also want the federal government to limit the ability of a corporation to make a profit?
37 posted on 08/08/2003 8:24:33 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: harpseal
I may not agree with LS either but no need to use names.
38 posted on 08/08/2003 8:24:57 AM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: samuel_adams_us
Feh...its almost as if there is no point of having formed a nation in the first place. But then, I guess that's the Globalist point of view anyway.
39 posted on 08/08/2003 8:25:16 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: Dialup Llama
The govt should at least cease subsidizing the job exodus by ELIMINATING the L1 and H1B visa programs. They are subsidies for companies who want to flood the market with cheap labor.

I agree. I'll compete with cheap overseas labor, but please don't bring them here to compete with me.

40 posted on 08/08/2003 8:26:03 AM PDT by Strider
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To: DugwayDuke
Wrong, I want the leadership of the corporation to be ethical, hand over some of the profits to the share holders, not giant bonuses for the CEO. I know you want total capitalism but this country isn't a capitalist country, its a country governed by and for the people, what's in the best interest for the people, not the CEO of Enron.
41 posted on 08/08/2003 8:26:45 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: samuel_adams_us
It is the cost of living that has forced people to ask for higher wages. As result wages in the US have gotton out of control and corporations are shipping work overseas. Expect a major real estate crash, because as more white collar workers can't find work or forced to take lower paying jobs at walmarts they will be able to afford less and dump their expensive mortgages on the housing market. The adjustment will be painfull. I call it the deflation adjustment. Once wages in the US go down, work will come back to the us. Look at the German car mfg corporations opening up plants in the us.

Regardless of who is in office (repub or dem) there is nothing they can do. We had a stock market bubble, real estate bubble, white collar wage bubble. Now they are popping.

http://www.comstockfunds.com/index.cfm?act=Newsletter.cfm&category=Market%20Commentary&newsletterid=1015&menugroup=Home&aol=1
42 posted on 08/08/2003 8:27:20 AM PDT by hotdogjones (We are going through a major deflation adjustment.)
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To: samuel_adams_us
While I do not agree with your points, having lurked on these threads a long time I know your heart is in the right place. You obviously want what is best for America as a whole and, even though I disagree with you on how to get that, the personal attacks on you that you endure are ridiculous. I certainly agree with you there are lots of CEOs who would sell us all into slavery for a nickle if they could.
43 posted on 08/08/2003 8:27:50 AM PDT by fortaydoos
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To: DugwayDuke
Do you see anywhere in the Constitution of this country that says anything about corporations? I don't, it talks about the citizens.
44 posted on 08/08/2003 8:28:08 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: samuel_adams_us
What, companies charge what the need to in order to make a profit, that's business, with the savings from shipping the jobs overseas they are not lowering their prices, they are putting the profits in their pocket.

Shouldn't that then open up the opportunity for a competiting company to pass on the savings to customers, and thus force the "greedy" company to adjust their prices in order to stay competitive?

45 posted on 08/08/2003 8:28:55 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: fortaydoos
I want an america for my children, my family has lived here for 14 generations, I am generation X, my son is X+1. I want him to have freedom and a life, todays' corporations are taking away our freedom, you either work 100 hours a week and are a robot, or you live on the street. Our parents and grand parents would be disgusted with what this country has become.
46 posted on 08/08/2003 8:31:05 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: dfwgator
RIAA doesn't have the power to tax and raise tarrifs.
47 posted on 08/08/2003 8:31:57 AM PDT by Dead Dog (There are no minority rights in a democracy. 51% get's 49%'s stuff.)
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To: DugwayDuke
When you call for tarriffs to protect your job, you are calling for increased prices for some so you can enjoy an increased life style at their expense. Sounds like a theme more at home in the democrat party.

Tariffs do more than protect jobs, they encourage the growth of industry in the nation and raise revenue that can be used to lower other federal taxes like self employment, payroll, and income taxes.

48 posted on 08/08/2003 8:32:08 AM PDT by UnBlinkingEye
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To: dfwgator
I agree with the competition part and prices, but what most don't see is that the competition is amongst only a few players who are left in the industry, they can pretty much manipulate the price they want when they want. There is no real competition anymore, that's why the oil businesses keep screwing us at the pump when there is a glut of oil.
49 posted on 08/08/2003 8:33:00 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: dfwgator
The government will have just about as much luck stopping offshoring

Since the government is funding outsourcing, it can surely stop it by cutting off funding to outsource and ridding us of that that rotten OPIC which insures investment in communist countries with taxpayer dollars.
50 posted on 08/08/2003 8:33:00 AM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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