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Telemarketers on the ropes
MSNBC.Com ^ | 8/11/2003 | By Lance Williams - CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER

Posted on 08/11/2003 10:24:41 PM PDT by Bobby777

Popular do-not-call list bringing industry to its knees

Aug. 11 — In the past three months, the hallways at Groesbeck-based Tel-A-Sell Marketing Inc. have become a lot less crowded. CEO Edd O’Connor has been forced to trim his telemarketing staff from 72 to 18.


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: donotcalllist; spam; telemarketing
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I hate to see Americans lose job in any sector ... my personal feeling is this is an univited invasion of persoanl privacy ... and they don't give up ...

by the way, US Gov't, the way to end Spam E-Mail is simple ... a $10 fine per incident by the company responsible for the ad ... that will kill the incentive for ALL of them ... like the FCC that can fine up to $11,000 for unwanted faxing ... yowza ...

1 posted on 08/11/2003 10:24:46 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Bobby777
In desperation, many years ago, supporting myself, my fianceé and a bunch of cats, I did a shift of this work. I couldn't even finish the whole shift.

I told the supervisor that I didn't feel like I was doing honest work. I apologised and left.
2 posted on 08/11/2003 10:28:37 PM PDT by Riley
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To: Bobby777
pssst
3 posted on 08/11/2003 10:32:15 PM PDT by Michael Barnes (carpe ductum)
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To: Bobby777
"a $10 fine per incident by the company responsible for the ad"

While this sounds like a good idea, take a close look at most of the spam you get. You'll notice that a good proportion of them end with things like .ru (Russia)or any number of dot two letter endings. These are off shore servers and the FCC or Attorney General or States just can't touch them.

4 posted on 08/11/2003 10:33:09 PM PDT by Positive
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To: Riley
good for you ... I know people need jobs and I actually *kinda* feel sorry for some of them BUT had a clown with Amoco Oil, DIRECTLY AGAINST MY PERMISSION, sign me up for some credit card insurance garbage ... he was very smarmy about it ... I called Amoco Oil and read them the riot act over this clown ...

Another, from MCI, got mad when I asked him to mail me side-by-side comparisons of long distance ... "put it in writing" ... I told him I'd definitely go with any plan that was lower total cost ... he hung up on me ... so I called back and asked for a supervisor and told them never to call my number again ...

I love the "Seinfeld" episode where somebody calls Jerry:

Jerry says "oh I'm busy now, give me your home number and I'll call you back later there" ...

the telemarketer says "umm, we're not allowed to do that" ...

Jerry says, "I guess you don't want people to call you at home?" ...

the guy says "yeah" ...

Jerry says "GOOD! now you know how I feel!" and hangs up ...
5 posted on 08/11/2003 10:36:18 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Positive
I got a funny one the other day, that informed me that my "t*ts are too small", and offering to sell me pills that were guaranteed to increase my breast size.

Being a man, I got a big laugh out of that. I forwarded it to a few friends who are as warped as I am.
6 posted on 08/11/2003 10:37:02 PM PDT by Riley
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To: Bobby777
The problem is the offshore spamming links. Much of the spam is from non-us sources. All the fines in the world issued by the USA would not stop them.
7 posted on 08/11/2003 10:37:11 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: unix
search returned only old articles ... I only got two hits ... I think it's hit and miss sometimes ...
8 posted on 08/11/2003 10:37:56 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Positive
yeah I know ... first we aliminate all the ones in America ... sink all the spammers and fine all the companies that use the services ... fine the company and they'll drop a spammer like a hot anvil ...

what they do is like the FBI does with Russian hackers ... invites them over for "winning a context" and then nabs 'em ... hehe ...
9 posted on 08/11/2003 10:41:23 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: longtermmemmory
All the fines in the world issued by the USA would not stop them.

it will stop ALL US-based companies that are using the services immediately ... when they have a gov't fine for their spammer sending out 10 million emails, it will be over real quick ...

now those offshore foreign companies, I have an idea ... it may be too radical ... hehe


10 posted on 08/11/2003 10:47:04 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Bobby777
I spent three months telemarketing when I was 19. It was hard work. I was selling an honest product and did pretty well.

The effects of telemarketing scaling down aren't going to destroy the economy. Let me give you an idea of what'll happen. When I went to work, the manager hired 20 people. In the course of the two months that firm operated in my area, 17 quit.

If she'd stayed another month, I would have quit too. I was going to go start college and was working a fast food job at the same time. So you're not going to see 2 million jobs really lost. Most don't really exist permenantly. They're mostly floating jobs that really last no more than a month.

In addition to that, there are still some firms that do client maintenance on magazine subscriptions and they'll be okay.

I think there's a legitimate place for telemarketing with some things like the "Gift Books" I was selling which contained about $1900 in Gift Certificate for local goods and services. (Most people wouldn't use them all but still they'd use enough to make up the price. I did.)

I think some people have crossed over the line and ruined the marketing technique for customers and telemarketers.

11 posted on 08/11/2003 10:48:54 PM PDT by Keyes2000mt
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To: Bobby777
I come home to 5-10 hang-ups on my machine a day.

The industry brought this on themselves.  Period.

Boo-freakin-hoo.

12 posted on 08/11/2003 10:52:09 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
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To: Keyes2000mt
I think it will force companies to use more print, TV, radio ads ... and that might be better anyway ...
13 posted on 08/11/2003 10:53:43 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Psycho_Bunny
I'm with you ... I dislike the telemarketing companies but I do feel a bit of sorry for the (whatever percentage) of people who were trying to put food on the table ... there's got to be something better to do ... yowza ...
14 posted on 08/11/2003 10:55:44 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Bobby777
Some things are hard to sell in 30 seconds. Then again, local radio ads can be pretty cheap, even if it takes minute. Paying twenty telemarketers $7.50 an hour for twenty-five hours a week adds up to $3500 a week to sell $40 gift books. So, in some ways telemarketing is not efficient.
15 posted on 08/11/2003 11:01:04 PM PDT by Keyes2000mt
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To: Keyes2000mt
So, in some ways telemarketing is not efficient.

True enough. But somebody is buying the things, or the operation would have died of natural causes already.

16 posted on 08/11/2003 11:08:00 PM PDT by Riley
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To: Keyes2000mt
I have to imagine 95% of people turn down telemarketers ... and don't want to buy the product offered ... you guys that have worked the phones can set me straight on the numbers ...

I say cash is a big incentive ... don't advertise ... just do this ... the Ford dealers remolded all their showrooms ... just give $300-$500 bonus cash, hard cash right on the table after the deal is closed ... buyers will come in by word-of-mouth ... simple enough ...

save what they'd spend on some of these advertising techniques and cut the price of the product ... of course, I'm a big believer that the more money you put in the consumer's pocket, the more they are going to spend and in varied ways ...

of course, companies believe they are competing for the same dollar that another company wants ... and that's true to an extent ... I think of Microsoft as an example ... Gates tried all those tricks to beat Netscape ... the simple fact was he had all the money and resources he needed to build a better product and beat Netscape that way ... of course, as we all know, he took the low road (some say) by making Internet Explorer free with Windows (uh oh, here comes the IE, Netscape, Opera, Unix debate ... LOL) ...
17 posted on 08/11/2003 11:10:56 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Positive
Note the "company responsible" for the ad. This is not spammer or the server that sent the spam, it is company whose product is being advertised. The vast majority of the offshore spam advertises products of companies doing business in the USA. This means that when a spam advertising an American Mortgage company originates from a server in Russia and passes through an unathorized relay in Korea, it is still the American Mortgage company that must pay the fine.

BTW: A $10 fine will not stop spam. The fine needs to be payable to the receiver of the spam and must be worth the receivers effort to sue. That, in my mind, would be a minimum of $500.
18 posted on 08/11/2003 11:12:55 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon
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To: Psycho_Bunny
I come home to 5-10 hang-ups on my machine a day.

...thus my unplugged phone. I plug it in only when I want to make an outgoing call. Relatives/friends know they can reach me on email (which I check 2x a day), or in an emergency can call me at work.

19 posted on 08/11/2003 11:14:27 PM PDT by bets
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To: Riley
I only took one product from spam marketing ... I got a sample of Pantene shampoo in the mail ... thought it was pretty good so that's what I buy (can I say that in a macho way? LOL) ...

if the product is good, go door-to-door, or give out free samples at a college ... big samples ... not the 10-cent size ... get people used to using a product ... if they like it and it's a good product, they'll go buy some more ...

of course, many sell insurance and stuff like that ... i.e., stuff that it's hard to give out free samples ...
20 posted on 08/11/2003 11:14:57 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Jeff Gordon
it is company whose product is being advertised

right ... I'm saying for the amount sent ... like a spammer that sends a million emails for Viagra ...

or, individual payments of $500 would work too ... the companies simply will not take the risk ... they will stop immediately ... make it unprofitable ... one fell swoop and 50-60% of all U.S.-based apam will stop like that ...

I support CIA and Special Ops teams to take out foreign spammers ... LOL
21 posted on 08/11/2003 11:18:23 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Bobby777
Why is it I still get junk faxes???

Ink cartridges and discount vacations...
22 posted on 08/11/2003 11:18:33 PM PDT by DB ()
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To: bets
very good ... and very effective ... used it a number of years ago when my idiot project leader went home every night about 7:00 p.m. ... I'd work until 2:30 a.m. the following morning (or later) and he'd start calling me after I'd had maybe 3-4 hours sleep about 7:30 the next morning ... happened all the time ... I never told him ... just let him keep dialing that phone jack ... he was an idiot anyway ...
23 posted on 08/11/2003 11:21:46 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: DB
listen ... do this ..

1) Collect ALL faxes for each business
2) Contact the FCC ... phone numbers on the web / yellow pages
3) Report all offenses ... it's busy but they WILL get to them ...

good luck ...

Sharper Image used to have a device that required a four-digit code from callers ... you give your friends and family the code and nobody else ... they don't get through ... don't know if those are still out there ...
24 posted on 08/11/2003 11:23:48 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Bobby777
Most have toll numbers in New York to call to get off their "list".

One of these days I might call the FCC, it would seem pretty hopeless.
25 posted on 08/11/2003 11:29:55 PM PDT by DB ()
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To: DB
I had the same problem at my office. Started to call the toll free number listed somewhere on the spam fax to remove my fax number. It does work. My junk fax stopped after a few weeks.

Red

26 posted on 08/11/2003 11:36:08 PM PDT by Conservative4Ever (life is but a dream...Sha Boom)
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To: DB
Why is it I still get junk faxes??? Ink cartridges and discount vacations...

Jumk faxes for INK CARTRIDGES??! That's kind of like throwing a brick through someone's window with a note attached that says, "Broken windows? Call ACME Glass, 555-4567"

I find it similarly amusing that I get spam for products that are supposed to eliminate spam.

27 posted on 08/11/2003 11:52:27 PM PDT by Riley
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To: Bobby777
re # 8

Hey, no worries here...I think there are many on this board that didn't even think abotu searching for the title of this thread!!!! Just wanted to link the earlier thread..that's all...

be good..

SVR4

28 posted on 08/12/2003 12:03:14 AM PDT by Michael Barnes (carpe ductum)
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To: unix
always a good idea to link to original thread ... I'm all for that ...

now, if we could just spam the spammers and call the telemarketers ... hmmmmm ...
29 posted on 08/12/2003 12:09:22 AM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Riley
That's kind of like throwing a brick through someone's window with a note attached that says, "Broken windows? Call ACME Glass, 555-4567

wow ... new business opportunity ... LOL ... kinda like the Mob ... we'll beat you up unless you pay us the money not to beat you up ... and then, occasionally, we'll toss in a free beating to show you what you're paying to avoid ...
30 posted on 08/12/2003 12:11:13 AM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Riley
In desperation, many years ago, supporting myself, my fianceé and a bunch of cats, I did a shift of this work. I couldn't even finish the whole shift.

Join the club, although I lasted a bit longer than you (three days).

31 posted on 08/12/2003 12:37:24 AM PDT by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: Clemenza
It was some kind of policeman's ball raffle thing that we were supposed to sell. We were expected to be evasive when directly asked if we were cops.
There was also some kind of card game that we were supposed to play while we were on the 'phone. I bailed, went home, had a stiff drink, and took a long, very hot shower.

I just couldn't eat that much s**t. The whole thing was shifty.

32 posted on 08/12/2003 12:49:45 AM PDT by Riley
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To: Riley
The closest I came to true desperation was selling knives for the Vector corporation (earn $15 an hour!). Even I wouldn't sink that low!
33 posted on 08/12/2003 1:01:58 AM PDT by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: Clemenza
The closest I came to true desperation was selling knives for the Vector corporation (earn $15 an hour!). Even I wouldn't sink that low!

Oh man. I went to one of their 'presentations'. They refused to call it the business, or the company. It was to be referred to as 'The Opportunity'. We had a 20 year old kid with a hundred dollar haircut giving us this spiel.

I listened attentively and politely, and left at the soonest possible time. Good grief, there's a lot of this nonsense out there.

In that dry period in my life, I ended up delivering things in bobtail trucks. Even that had its cheesy moments, when they'd try to overload me and give me instructions on avoiding weigh stations. I flat-out refused to do this, and I refused to drive an overloaded rig, which made me a 'troublemaker'. Aghh.

34 posted on 08/12/2003 1:10:34 AM PDT by Riley
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To: Positive
While this sounds like a good idea, take a close look at most of the spam you get. You'll notice that a good proportion of them end with things like .ru (Russia)or any number of dot two letter endings. These are off shore servers and the FCC or Attorney General or States just can't touch them.

No, but providers sure can. Whoever is relaying the spam should block mail ports for the offender, starting at the backbone level. Once an ISP lost the ability to send mail, they would crack down on the spammer in a hurry.

35 posted on 08/12/2003 1:16:15 AM PDT by Djarum
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To: Bobby777
I'd say 90-95% was pretty accurate in my case. But our area tends to have less money for telemarketing.

Word of mouth on an item like the gift books wouldn't get them all out. They were $40, about $8 of which was commission to the telemarketers. Obviously they'll find ways to cope.

36 posted on 08/12/2003 6:27:50 AM PDT by Keyes2000mt
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To: Clemenza
Good thing, it's a scam.
37 posted on 08/12/2003 6:30:11 AM PDT by Keyes2000mt
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To: Psycho_Bunny
I come home to 5-10 hang-ups on my machine a day.

I spent some time in CA earlier this year taking care of my folks. I just couldn't believe the crap that they get almost 24/7. It never stopped. 10 am -- 3pm -- 6pm -- 9 pm. They let the answering machine take the calls and when they're in the mood, filter through all the hangups and call back. Naturally, when the do-not-call list came out, they were one of the first to sign up for it.

38 posted on 08/12/2003 6:32:59 AM PDT by MrsEmmaPeel
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To: Djarum
No, but providers sure can.

This really opens up a nasty can of worms. On the one hand you want the provider to deny spam mail to your account. On the other, you want privacy. Who can say that a piece a mail from .ru is actually spam? Maybe you requested some literature from a company there. Is the provider now to act as your Mommy and Daddy by reading through all your mail before you get to?

What about those companies that hang directly off the internet -- their provider is just supplying them bandwidth and nothing more. The company has their own mail and web servers. Is the provider in this case authorized to inspect company confidential e-mail when they're not storing it on their servers?

39 posted on 08/12/2003 6:40:06 AM PDT by MrsEmmaPeel
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To: Bobby777
Why don't I get telemarketing calls on my cell phone?
40 posted on 08/12/2003 6:40:20 AM PDT by Phaedrus
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To: Bobby777
"if the product is good, go door-to-door"

Those are the only people I hate worse than telemarketers.
41 posted on 08/12/2003 6:40:36 AM PDT by Rebelbase (In moderation of course.)
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To: Bobby777
I dislike the telemarketing companies but I do feel a bit of sorry for the (whatever percentage) of people who were trying to put food on the table ... there's got to be something better to do ...

I believe the telemarketing hack quoted in the article bemoaned the loss of two million jobs for folks just trying to make a living.

Now the math. Estimated and rounded off, so don't anybody get all technical on me.

Assume US population of 300 million. Of those 30% are minors or beyond working age. That leaves 210 Million in the workforce. Assume total govt workers (state, federal, local) to be 10 Million. That leaves 200 Million.

This guy is saying that 1% of all the working stiffs in the private sector are making phone calls to sell vinyl siding and whatnot.

Thats total BS.

42 posted on 08/12/2003 6:43:40 AM PDT by TontoKowalski
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To: Bobby777
The thing that REALLY pisses me off is that it is so ******* complicated to pursue action. For instance, how about getting woke up at 2 in the morning by a junk fax? I keep a fax for legitimate reasons and how they get the fax number, I don't have the foggiest. When I did the research to try and track down who it was that was doing the junk faxing, I discovered that it was a company called Fax.com which already has been chastised by the feds. There are so many 'smokes and mirrors' in the fax that the average joe would just drop the issue. The disclaimer is loaded with false and misleading statements and they never identify themselves. The 'Anonymous Call Rejection' feature does not work on 'out of area' calls, so these scum can invade your privacy and disturb your peace at will.
43 posted on 08/12/2003 6:48:33 AM PDT by hardhead ('Curly, don't say its a fine morning or I'll shoot you.' - John Wayne, 'McLintock' 1963)
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To: Bobby777
if the product is good, go door-to-door

Did you develop the marketing plan for Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses?

44 posted on 08/12/2003 7:04:52 AM PDT by TontoKowalski
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To: hardhead
I had that too ... really made me mad ... Save the fax with the advertiser and contact FCC.gov ... swamp the FCC with this stuff (meaning everybody report these things so they'll do something) ... they'll stop 'em and/or fine 'em ...
45 posted on 08/12/2003 11:34:12 AM PDT by Bobby777
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To: TontoKowalski; Rebelbase
I knew somebody wouldn't like that ... LOL ... I was trying to suggest a way of placing something directly into consumer hands besides hounding them on the telephone ... actually I feel the same way about door-to-door ..."No Solicitation" signs seem to be in order ... it seems like it has dropped quite a bit in my area ... I hate the "super cleaners" and the "coupon books" but they always get me for about $20 with those darn Girl Scout cookies ...
46 posted on 08/12/2003 11:42:50 AM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Bobby777
Do you know if they made this for telephones? Wouldn't it be a great idea to require a caller to punch in a 4 digit code to have the call go through to your phone? It would eliminate a lot of annoying calls....telemarketers and otherwise.
47 posted on 08/12/2003 11:44:18 AM PDT by quebecois
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To: quebecois
oh that's what it was for ... specifically for a telephone ... it would protect a fax as well ... as I recall it was $39-$99 ... seems like it was The Sharper Image ...
48 posted on 08/12/2003 11:46:07 AM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Riley
Jumk faxes for INK CARTRIDGES??! That's kind of like throwing a brick through someone's window with a note attached that says, "Broken windows? Call ACME Glass, 555-4567"

Somewhat off-topic, but once upon I time I saw a company selling security systems in one of those temporary "shops" in the walkways of a mall. The company was collecting names/addresses for follow-up sales calls.

Now, the evil, warped portion of my brain kicked in. I started thinking that this could be the world's greatest scam:

  1. Collect addresses of people who don't have security systems
  2. Have confederate rob house, knowing that there is no security system
  3. Sell security system to people who have now recently been robbed
  4. Wait a while until insurance replacements arrive
  5. Use backdoor built into your system to rob them again
  6. Flee the country before anyone figures out what happened

49 posted on 08/12/2003 11:55:39 AM PDT by kevkrom (This tag line for rent)
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To: Keyes2000mt
Word of mouth on an item like the gift books wouldn't get them all out. They were $40, about $8 of which was commission to the telemarketers

Sure they would. There's a book like that for most areas called the "Entertainment" book, which is filled with coupons for local businesses (plus a buy-one-get-one dining card for many restaurants) that can usually be purchased from several charities or from a local bookstore -- they have a hard time keeping them in stock.

50 posted on 08/12/2003 11:59:43 AM PDT by kevkrom (This tag line for rent)
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