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U.S. Jew among 3 nabbed in plot to smuggle missile
Reuters ^ | August 13, 2003

Posted on 08/13/2003 1:08:33 PM PDT by Selmo

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To: FreedomSurge
Hebrew University by Post Zionist Jewish professors.

Do you consider me an anti Jewite for pointing this out?

If the "Post Zionist Jewish professor" is Israel Shahak, then yes. He's the neo-nazi poster boy.

51 posted on 08/13/2003 3:22:11 PM PDT by Alouette (Every democratic politician should live next door to a pimp, so he can have someone to look up to.)
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To: veronica
Actually no. May be in the next couple of days I will post some stuff by the good professors at Hebrew University. They will be the death of Israel and by the way I don't agree with their message.

Have you not heard of the post-Zionist movement in Israel?

52 posted on 08/13/2003 3:22:19 PM PDT by FreedomSurge
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To: Alouette
He is not the only one. The phenomena is quite widespread and is actually intelectually decended from Martin Buber who was slighted.

Rather than trying to shut down Christians like Mel Gibson maybe the Jews would be better served by shutting down the infinitely greater dangers coming out of Hebrew University, Columbia University etc.

53 posted on 08/13/2003 3:26:35 PM PDT by FreedomSurge
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To: Alouette
"Do you consider me an anti Jewite for pointing this out?

If the "Post Zionist Jewish professor" is Israel Shahak, then yes. He's the neo-nazi poster boy."

So by pointing these things out I become the evil one. By the way, has Shahak and his diciples been removed from the faculty? If they haven't then is Hebrew University the neo-nazi poster University?

54 posted on 08/13/2003 3:29:22 PM PDT by FreedomSurge
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To: mr.pink
Do you think that many people of Jewish faith work with Muslim terrorists? I don't. That doesn't mean there are't any, but I think very few. And I doubt those Jews who do work with terrorists regularly go to temple or practice their faith. My ONLY point.
55 posted on 08/13/2003 3:31:08 PM PDT by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: FreedomSurge
By the way, has Shahak....been removed from the faculty?

Considering he died in 2001, I'd say yes. But what has all that to do with the Intifada?

56 posted on 08/13/2003 3:33:04 PM PDT by veronica (http://www.petitiononline.com/KN50711/petition.html - Confirm Daniel Pipes to USIPF ......sign this!)
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To: Cachelot
Hey, in the next couple of days I will post some stuff and ping you. By the way, Have you heard of post zionism?

Do you think the Arabs were smart enough to come up with anti Israeli philosophical arguments that Israel hating liberals and Europeans would swallow so completely?

57 posted on 08/13/2003 3:36:15 PM PDT by FreedomSurge
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To: veronica
You don't think his students have taken his place at the University?

I am reading a book about the struggle for the Jewish soul by an adviser of Netanyahu's. Even though you and others will no doubt brand me as an anti Jewite, I will post some passages from book in the next couple of days and ping you.

58 posted on 08/13/2003 3:40:53 PM PDT by FreedomSurge
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To: Selmo; RussianConservative; RusIvan; George W. Bush; katnip; Aliska
Russian authorities who worked in the sting provided an inert missile that was shipped to the United States

TOOO FUNNY!!!!

There was a movie a few years ago, about Baghdad, I think. And a US president stuck in some diner..

59 posted on 08/13/2003 3:45:37 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: Cachelot
"I'm afraid I'm going to be treated to something singularly psychotic"

Actually you will be treated to something singularly psychotic, but it won't be written by me, it will be written by department heads at Hebrew University.

"I collect you critters ;)."

Cool. Hey can I come with you and watch when you go to throw stones at Mel Gibson. After all he who is without sin....

60 posted on 08/13/2003 3:45:57 PM PDT by FreedomSurge
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To: Peach
Do you think that many people of Jewish faith work with Muslim terrorists?

No, I don't.

What does trouble me is it seems a very few Jews, for whatever reasons, have been working to instigate acts of terror here in the states. Some, like the Rubin guy who attempted suicide in prison, and the florida Dentist and his accomplices, had some really heavy stuff planned and military arsenals to pull it off..

IMO, with the amount of resources currently dedicated to preventing homeland terrorism, these devious, contemptible, and potentially murderous actions are not helping the situation, nor America. I find it hard to believe they were "lone wolves" operating without external support. I'd like to know where that support is coming from.

And I doubt those Jews who do work with terrorists regularly go to temple or practice their faith. My ONLY point.

That's a fair point.
61 posted on 08/13/2003 3:48:55 PM PDT by mr.pink
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To: Alouette
Do you require an equal standard of evidence in the case of the Muslim and Indian accomplices?
62 posted on 08/13/2003 3:49:46 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: FreedomSurge
So by pointing these things out I become the evil one.

The late Professor Shahak and his Marxist disciples are evil. By endorsing their views and suggesting that this is "mainstream Judaism" then you too are sharing in their evilness.

63 posted on 08/13/2003 3:51:11 PM PDT by Alouette (Every democratic politician should live next door to a pimp, so he can have someone to look up to.)
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I checked every news story on Google News for the past 17 hours and could find no Reuters dispatch with a headline or story indicating the religion of Abraham. The current Reuters story ( about 4pm EST ) makes no mention either of his religion

Odd that reuters would use THAT headline and emphasize one religion when the reporter probably was unsure WHAT religion Abraham was.
64 posted on 08/13/2003 3:52:21 PM PDT by catonsville
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To: Alouette
"mainstream Judaism"

Where specifically did I endorse their beliefs? Just like liberalism is infecting the US post zionism is infecting Israel. Your putting words into my mouth and calling me evil will not change that fact. If they are so evil, why were they allowed to teach so long at Hebrew University?

65 posted on 08/13/2003 3:56:06 PM PDT by FreedomSurge
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To: Alouette
Neturei Karta

I had to look those guys up. What a bunch of kooks.

66 posted on 08/13/2003 3:58:22 PM PDT by csvset
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To: mr.pink
If you reverse the name, however, it is the name of Freud's physician, who was Jewish and was upset with Freud at one point about a publication that would make the Jewish faith look bad. Something about Moses.

And the fact that the Freud's physician was mostly known for trying to stop the Jews from looking bad.... well, that's like opening a can of worms, don't you think?

Something wierd about this, anyway.

67 posted on 08/13/2003 3:59:14 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: mr.pink
I wish we would have been a little more patient and not arrested these people so soon. They could have waited. It would have been great to have snagged REAL terrorist buyers. I'm wondering what was the rush?
68 posted on 08/13/2003 4:01:03 PM PDT by demkicker ((I wanna kick some commie butt))
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To: Shermy
Hey Sherm !
Could be.
I think they might have had their fingers in another bit of nasty business we've discussed: namely the "liberation" of certain materials from one of our labs.
A lot of those boyos are ex-KGB.
69 posted on 08/13/2003 4:02:45 PM PDT by genefromjersey (So little time - so many FLAMES to light !!)
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To: Selmo
Hey, cut the poor guy some slack. He was just trying to make a buck!
70 posted on 08/13/2003 4:11:00 PM PDT by Edmund Burke
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To: MarMema
Something wierd about this, anyway.

Yup....something wierd.
71 posted on 08/13/2003 4:20:42 PM PDT by mr.pink
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Comment #72 Removed by Moderator

To: demkicker
I wish we would have been a little more patient and not arrested these people so soon......I'm wondering what was the rush?

If my memory is serving me well.....the last time patience was utlized operationally in a matter like this, they Feds were a little too patient and the terrorists managed to detonate a bomb in the WTC (`93).

I read on one of the articles that these guys wanted the 50 rockets, and a ton of C4 explosives delivered by August 30th....perhaps in time for an aniversery?
73 posted on 08/13/2003 4:26:09 PM PDT by mr.pink
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Comment #74 Removed by Moderator

To: xm177e2
As a somewhat distant member of the Tribe, I do have to say that you are correct - Americans didn't blame all Jews for the Rosenbergs treasons. And those cost some 50,000 lives, as the judge said at their sentencing.

The beauty of America is that we are a "deeply religous and moral" people but we keep it at home. By internalizing our faith, we need no government intervention to regulate our behavior, and we can leave our neighbors in peace, secure in the knowledge that they will regulate theirs.
75 posted on 08/13/2003 4:31:47 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon liberty, it is essential to examine principles - -)
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To: mr.pink
I read on one of the articles that these guys wanted the 50 rockets, and a ton of C4 explosives delivered by August 30th....perhaps in time for an aniversery?

That's what scares me. Whoever wants to use it all is still out there...
76 posted on 08/13/2003 4:38:14 PM PDT by demkicker ((I wanna kick some commie butt))
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To: FreedomSurge
Hey, in the next couple of days I will post some stuff and ping you

You need a couple of days to collect your thoughts? Or is it other's thoughts? Something you'll have to look up? On JewWatch or Hoffman-info?

By the way, Have you heard of post zionism?

Is that something I can learn about if I go read the intellectual 3l33t3 over on LibertyForum, or do I have to actually go and wade through Arab sites?

Israel hating liberals and Europeans would swallow so completely?

Generally, there is no group of people as pathetically stupid as Israel-hating liberals and Europeans (who are, by and large, Israel-hating liberals of the brownish kind). There is literally nothing coming out of a nazi orifice they wouldn't swallow, and the smellier the better.

This group of people swallow such diverse claims as:

"The 9/11 planes were piloted by Jews, using remote control" -- Origin: France

"The Bali nightclub bomb was really a nuclear device, placed there by Israelis. So says an Australian military officer who witnessed the blast from 50 yards away" -- Origin escapes me at the moment, but this hilarious article appears on "LibertyForum" and should definitely not be missed.

"The plane that crashed into the Pentagon was no plane at all, but a huge missile launched by the administration", which we all know is controlled by the Jooos. -- Origin: France, again. These wacky Europeans.


77 posted on 08/13/2003 4:47:35 PM PDT by Cachelot (~ In waters near you ~)
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To: Selmo
Do we even know if this guy was even aware of what was being smuggled? He may have been involved in the money laundering and not known the source of the cash.
78 posted on 08/13/2003 4:49:15 PM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: Mr. Mojo
That an American Jew was among them is the Ha'aretz internet lead, and a lead story in the Jerusalem Post. I think this shows that at least even the mainstream Israeli press is confounded over the fact that a Jew would be conspiring with someone trying to sell missiles to "Muslim extremists" and exonerates to some degree Reuters for emphasizing this fact.
79 posted on 08/13/2003 4:53:03 PM PDT by Symblized
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To: StolarStorm
I may have missed it, but I don't see anyone emphasizing the fact that these guys had one thing in common: they were unprincipled. If you want to get into the illegal arms trade, you can't afford to worry about niceties like "who are you going to kill with these things?", etc. You'd soon be out of business. So all this talk about the posited Jew is just drivel, because he was a co-religionist with the others, the Unprincipled. Just re-read some old Graham Greene novels.
80 posted on 08/13/2003 5:12:23 PM PDT by anatolfz
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To: Selmo
Are you sure that he isn't a convert to islam, like the fifth columnist Stephen Schwartz aka Suleyman Ahmad?
81 posted on 08/13/2003 5:17:57 PM PDT by Honorary Serb
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To: demkicker
I wish we would have been a little more patient and not arrested these people so soon . . .I'm wondering what was the rush?

Our friends at the BBC got the story. The Brits, the FBI and the Russian FSB are not amused. Hope they find the rat and put him away for life.

82 posted on 08/13/2003 5:39:15 PM PDT by DPB101
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To: MarMema
There was a movie a few years ago, about Baghdad, I think. And a US president stuck in some diner..

It was so bad that even "Made For HBO" wasn't adequate warning. Given that nearly all the nuke war movies are schlock drivel, that one was especially low. The movie did portray the U.S. presidency and his top staff (NSC, military) as total boobs and idiots. A typical Hollywood Lefty hit piece.
83 posted on 08/13/2003 7:04:32 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: Cachelot
Is this what I get, irrational spewing? I would expect better from an uneducated Arab. Wait until the vein in your forehead disappears then try re reading the thread.
84 posted on 08/13/2003 7:05:37 PM PDT by FreedomSurge
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To: MarMema
I wonder if this sting was intended specifically to lure an 'arms dealer' into a news-making transaction specifically to drum up a War On Terrorism event.

I don't see much indication in this and other reports that there was any particular interest in peddling missiles to terrorists until he was lured into thinking he had buyers for his missiles.

The circumstances indicate the possibility that this is a case of entrapment that serves political ends.

The Brits and the Russians would have reasons of their to cooperate in this venture.
85 posted on 08/13/2003 7:10:58 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: George W. Bush
Perhaps this article is of interest to you:



Analysts say missile sting more effective as PR event than as serious blow to arms trade

STEVE GUTTERMAN, Associated Press Writer Wednesday, August 13, 2003






(08-13) 09:42 PDT MOSCOW (AP) --

The sting that netted a Briton for allegedly trying to sell a Russian-made anti-aircraft missile in New Jersey was more a chance to show off cooperation among former Cold War foes than a sign of real progress in halting the black market in such weapons, Russian analysts said Wednesday.

The chief spokesman for the Russian Federal Security Service called the arrest a "new stage in cooperation" among the secret services of the United States, Russia and Britain, the Russian news agency ITAR-Tass reported.

Sergei Ignatchenko said in Washington that the improved intelligence ties are bringing "positive results" in efforts to stop the activities of criminal groups involved in illegal arms sales, ITAR-Tass said.

But Yevgeny Volk, head of the Moscow office of the Heritage Foundation, a conservative Washington-based think tank, said the arrest would do little to dent the illegal trade in portable Russian-made missiles capable of downing jetliners. He said it was "a very big business and a very profitable one."

The arrest "demonstrates the cooperation of the secret services, but from the point of view of stopping the flow of these weapons, it is not so effective," Volk said.

He said it would be hard to make serious inroads into illicit sales of shoulder-fired missiles, in part because of corruption in Russia's defense industry.

"There are hundreds of such missiles made in Russia, and it's difficult to trace them," Volk said.

An independent military analyst, Pavel Felgenhauer, also dismissed the arrest.

He told Associated Press Television News that Russia's government is serious about cracking down on illegal arms deals. But he said the sting wasn't a good example of that because the alleged seller appeared to be a bit player while "on the black and gray market hundreds of such weapons change hands."

Felgenhauer also said that despite some improvement in cooperation, there is still plenty of distrust between the secret services of Russia and the United States. "Basically, they are still enemies," he said.

The operation, which came ahead of a summit expected this fall between President Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin, struck a tone of accord on weapons proliferation, an issue that has been a source of disputes between the two countries despite improved relations.

The United States is concerned about Russian cooperation with Iran's nuclear program and it accused Russian companies of providing weapons to Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq.

But Putin, who was a KGB agent during the Cold War, threw his support behind the U.S. fight against terrorism following the Sept. 11 attacks and has repeatedly said that battling terror and arms proliferation are areas where cooperation with the West is crucial to world security.

Volk said the missile sting was probably just "the tip of the iceberg" in terms of cooperation between U.S. and Russian intelligence. He said most of the joint work is likely kept quiet, but he thinks the two governments felt a need "to show they are closely cooperating in combatting terrorism and the illegal arms trade."


86 posted on 08/13/2003 7:13:40 PM PDT by Brian S
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To: Selmo
What exactly was Yehuda Abrhams' motive for his actions?
87 posted on 08/13/2003 7:13:49 PM PDT by fightu4it (conquest by immigration and subversion spells the end of US.)
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To: FreedomSurge
Remember that Mohammad had close contact to Jewish tribes and borrowed most of his religion from his understanding of the religious practices of these tribes. The Jews were integral in the Moorish occupation of Spain. It should come as no suprise that at least some Jews are siding themselves with Islam against the United States.

Man, there has just been some crazy posts on FR the last few days. Yours is one of them. Yesterday we were treated to donh's enlightened commentary that the problem with Jews today is that they don't hate christians enough.

So you really think there is a single Jew alive today who would side with Al Qaeda based upon what happend in Spain hundreds of years ago?

So some piece of crap guy who happens to be a Jew wanted to profit off of terrorism - what does that have to do with Jews as a whole? Absolutley nothing.

88 posted on 08/13/2003 7:15:35 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Brian S
Nice find. I doubt we'll ever really know the details. But the Russians want our help (and to look the other way) on the Chechnya business. And certainly, there have been instances of top political leadership cooperating with each other in order to boost their own ratings at home. Even during the Soviet era.

One has to wonder what a really pro-American Russia would like. If that's actually possible to imagine. Certainly, the combination would be formidable. Personally, I'd favor that over deepening our ties with China and India.
89 posted on 08/13/2003 7:33:37 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: Betty Jo; honway; OKCSubmariner; aristeides; Wallaby
You were on top of this yesterday and the night before, Betty Jo. Great work!
90 posted on 08/13/2003 7:41:06 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: FreedomSurge
Is this what I get, irrational spewing? I would expect better from an uneducated Arab

Hmmm... this is your original question, irrational as it may be:

Do you think the Arabs were smart enough to come up with anti Israeli philosophical arguments that Israel hating liberals and Europeans would swallow so completely?

So tell me, do you think Arabs (who are mostly rabid and drooling antisemites) would manage to come up with arguments that Israeli-hating liberals and Europeans (who are mostly rabid and drooling antisemites) would swallow?

Now, think about what you asked. If your head gets warm, it's just because you're doing something unusual. It's nothing to worry about, at least as long as your hair don't catch fire.

Wait until the vein in your forehead disappears then try re reading the thread.

Actually, my vascular system is permament. You can't have vessels in your head just go away, or disappear, if you're to have a good blood supply to the brain.

Did yours disappear? Doesn't that make you kinda dim? Do you have to eat fish to compensate?

91 posted on 08/13/2003 7:42:31 PM PDT by Cachelot (~ In waters near you ~)
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To: Rodney King
So you really think there is a single Jew alive today who would side with Al Qaeda based upon what happend in Spain hundreds of years ago?

No I was just pointing out that historically the Jews were (up until 1948) alot more comfortable with Islam then they were with Christianity. In Spain, many Jews actively sided with the Muslims against the Christians.

The degree of hatred of Christianity runs very deep amongst Jews and few Christians are aware of this current. The great part of the donh's postings is that he does not hide his hatred.

I would assert that most Jews blame Christianity for the holocoust. Some slightly, some totally. Based on this why wouldn't some (hopefully not a great number) side with Islam against Christianity?

92 posted on 08/13/2003 7:52:13 PM PDT by FreedomSurge
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To: Cachelot
" So tell me, do you think Arabs (who are mostly rabid and drooling antisemites) would manage to come up with arguments that Israeli-hating liberals and Europeans (who are mostly rabid and drooling antisemites) would swallow? "

No. The arguments they used were created at Hebrew University.

After all: "For thirty five years an entire people, some three and a half million in number, have been held without basic human rights. The occupation and oppression of another people have brought the State of Israel to where it is today."

"at least as long as your hair don't catch fire."

The joke is on you buddy. I have no hair.

93 posted on 08/13/2003 7:59:23 PM PDT by FreedomSurge
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To: Fred Mertz
Thank you Freddy!

Every one should go read the other FR thread about this.I stayed up hours searching.

My latest find is

http://www.guardian.co.uk/armstrade/story/0,10674,1018257,00.html

It should be remembered that Yehuda Abraham owns
"Ambuy", the jewelry company that has a store in the Jeddah, Saudi Arabia Sheraton Hotel.

Bin Laden has/had a huge mining/jewelry/textile empire.

This is either a HUGH story that is really SERIES,or it is truly BUSH BS,designed to divert!
94 posted on 08/13/2003 8:14:45 PM PDT by Betty Jo
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To: Brian S
Felgenhauer also said that despite some improvement in cooperation, there is still plenty of distrust between the secret services of Russia and the United States. "Basically, they are still enemies," he said. ===

Why I stumble on his guy Felgengauer in each second article about Russia?
In Russia he is one of hundereds of "jornalugs" as they are called in Russia who pretend that he know something but in reality he insinuates his article from his thumb.

He don't know nothing about what secret services think or does.
95 posted on 08/14/2003 12:54:44 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: Shermy
Sounds like the Russian mob has its fingers in this one. Conflict diamonds, professional arms dealers, Russian weapons.==

Consider that "Russian mob" in United States consists of former soviet jews and decendants. Ethnic russians are few in so called "russian mob".
I know that in US everyone from former Soviet Union is "russian" but it is not correct. They are "soviet" not "russian".
96 posted on 08/14/2003 1:10:28 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: George W. Bush
The circumstances indicate the possibility that this is a case of entrapment that serves political ends. The Brits and the Russians would have reasons of their to cooperate in this venture.

<...sigh> Then why would the Russians go along with this 'venture'. Aren't they against the war etc. Why would they cooperate in this 'stunt' (which it seems like you're calling this) to help keep up Bush's poll numbers?

Are you a libertarian by chance? I've noticed this type of consistent criticism from you of Bush and the Administration?

Surprised you use the screen name 'George W. Bush'

97 posted on 08/14/2003 1:35:44 AM PDT by Aaron0617
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To: Peach
bump
98 posted on 08/14/2003 2:17:21 AM PDT by GOPJ
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To: xm177e2
Good comment.
99 posted on 08/14/2003 2:45:41 AM PDT by tictoc
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To: FreedomSurge
No.

Rotfl. You truly don't get it, do you? Unable to follow even your own line. Amazing ;)).

The joke is on you buddy. I have no hair.

So you're a skinhead. I must tell you, I'm not surprised.

100 posted on 08/14/2003 4:53:04 AM PDT by Cachelot (~ In waters near you ~)
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