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[Laura Schlessinger] Dr. Laura Renounces Jewish Orthodoxy
religionnewsblog.com ^ | 08/13/2003 | LISA KEYS

Posted on 08/15/2003 5:10:35 PM PDT by Destro

[Laura Schlessinger] Dr. Laura Renounces Jewish Orthodoxy

Item 3999 • Posted: 08/13/2003 • Weblogged by Religion News Blog

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/archives/00003999.html

Forward, Aug. 15, 2003

http://www.forward.com/

By LISA KEYS, FORWARD STAFF

With 12 million Americans tuning in daily, controversial syndicated radio- show host Laura Schlessinger — known to all as "Dr. Laura" — is arguably the best-known Orthodox Jew in the United States.

Rather, she was.

In a little-noticed pronouncement, Schlessinger — who very publicly converted to Judaism five years ago — opened her radio show, "The Dr. Laura Schlessinger Program," with the revelation that she will no longer practice Judaism. Although Schlessinger says she still "considers" herself Jewish, "My identifying with this entity and my fulfilling the rituals, etcetera, of the entity — that has ended."

And with that, Orthodox Judaism lost its loudest mouthpiece and its most prominent "rabbi," as it were, with the largest American pulpit — with the exception of, perhaps, presidential candidate Joseph Lieberman.

Syndicated nationally since 1994, Schlessinger has won over listeners with her hard-edged advice and razor-sharp tongue. Yet her brash style, not to mention her espousal of a strict "moral health" code — including controversial condemnations of homosexuality as "a biological error" — put her at odds with wide swaths of the Jewish community. Many found her moralist, black-and-white, you're-with-me-or-against-me stance more representative of evangelical Christians than of Jews, who were often among her most outspoken critics.

Nonetheless, even Schlessinger's detractors were shocked by the news. "I can't tell you how significant this is," said fellow Jewish media star and "Kosher Sex" author Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, who has sparred with Schlessinger over her comments on homosexuality. "Dr. Laura always equated her morals and ethics with Jewish morals and ethics. That placed the American Jewish community in a real fix; on the one hand, she made Judaism very popular, on the other, she made it vilified and hated by many people."

"I think Judaism is better off not being saddled and directly associated with Dr. Laura's means," he said, adding, "although she is still a Jew."

Schlessinger began her program last Tuesday by noting that, prior to each broadcast, she spends an hour reading faxes from fans and listeners. "By and large the faxes from Christians have been very loving, very supportive," she said. "From my own religion, I have either gotten nothing, which is 99% of it, or two of the nastiest letters I have gotten in a long time. I guess that's my point — I don't get much back. Not much warmth coming back."

Schlessinger even hinted at a possible turn to Christianity — a move that, radio insiders say, would elevate her career far beyond the 300 stations that currently syndicate her show. "I have envied all my Christian friends who really, universally, deeply feel loved by God," she said. "They use the name Jesus when they refer to God... that was a mystery, being connected to God."

In her 25 years on radio, Schlessinger said she was moved "time and time again" by listeners who wrote and described that they had "joined a church, felt loved by God and that was my anchor."

Michael Medved, a conservative, nationally syndicated, radio talk-show host, celebrated the Sabbath with Schlessinger about a year ago. "We had talked about having Shabbat again," he said. When he heard of Schlessinger's defection, "My first response was to pick up the phone and try and expedite [the visit]."

"I think it's a shame," he said. "Though, of course, she was controversial in some eyes, she is one of the most admired women in America. Having the most admired woman in America speak joyously about Passover, Shabbat and Jewish lifestyle events — all of that was quite wonderful."

Of her conversion to Judaism, "I felt that I was putting out a tremendous amount toward that mission, that end, and not feeling return, not feeling connected, not feeling that inspired," Schlessinger said. "Trust me, I've talked to rabbis, I've read, I've prayed, I've agonized and I came to this place anyway — which is not exactly back to the beginning, but more in that direction than not."

"Was Laura naive to think, 'gosh, I'll be the queen of the Jews?' Yes, she was naive," said Medved. "Part of that comes from not growing up in the Jewish community. It's so rare to find a celebrity embrace of Jewish religiosity of any kind, I can see why Laura would think her very public embrace would have led to a more enthusiastic reaction. But given all the crosscurrents and controversies that divide our community, I can see why that expectation was wrong."

In 2001, despite the controversy surrounding her, the National Council of Young Israel honored Schlessinger for her "traditional American values." Rabbi Pesach Lerner, the executive director of Young Israel, was surprised by Schlessinger's defection but declined to comment on it.

Born to a Jewish father and an Italian Catholic mother, Schlessinger was raised in Brooklyn in a home that was without religion. Approximately 10 years ago, prompted by a question from her son during a viewing of a Holocaust documentary, Schlessinger, 56, began exploring her Jewish roots.

Yet last week's revelation was far from the first time Schlessinger has been wracked with religious doubts. Lacking a religious background, she has spent a lifetime searching for that missing something, and "each thing I tried left me feeling empty," she told Philadelphia's Inside magazine in 1998. Having already undergone a Conservative conversion in 1997, after a debacle with the Jewish Federation of Greater Dallas — a now-legendary affair in which she allegedly rejected three hotel suites, wouldn't ride in taxis and offended the entire audience at a $500 plate fundraiser — Schlessinger was tempted to give up on Judaism completely, but decided to undergo an Orthodox conversion instead.

"A large part of me wanted to make a statement after that experience, to stand even taller about Jewish values," she told the Jewish Telegraphic Agency in 2001. "Besides, if you don't have an Orthodox conversion, you can't get buried in Israel. I want to be close to ground zero."

Rabbi Reuven Bulka, a fellow radio host who presided over Schlessinger's Orthodox conversion, said he was "stunned" by his friend's 180-degree turn. "It didn't make my day, shall we say."

"She obviously has a tremendous impact," said the congregational rabbi from Ottawa, Ont. "When she went through the evolutionary stage of her journey, a lot of people were inspired by her own excitement about it. I can't tell you I know 100 people who became Sabbath observant because of it, but certainly it was a feel-good message for a lot of people. That these feel-good messages won't be coming anymore is certainly a loss."

Other Jews within earshot are far from sad to see her go. "I don't think this is any great loss to the Jewish universe," said Susan Weidman Schneider, the executive editor of Lilith magazine. "I don't think she was a particularly effective or useful spokesperson. She doubtless alienated more people than she drew toward Judaism."

"So, let her say she's no longer a practicing Jew," she added. "Let her be just a garden variety, anti-choice conservative."

"I still see myself as a Jew," Schlessinger said on the air last week. "But the spiritual journey and that direction, as hardcore as I was at it, just didn't fulfill something in me that I needed."

"All I know is, in my experiences with her — which have been considerable — I haven't known her to do anything less than 100%," Bulka said. "Anything she did, she did fully. The scary thing is if she said she's leaving, it's very forboding."

"I thought she was a tough little lady — I didn't think she'd chicken out so easily," said Rabbi Isaac Levy, the chairman of Jews for Morality, who has staunchly supported Schlessinger's conservative agenda. "She's gotten a couple of kicks in the chin and she's succumbed to it."

"It seems incredible that an ethicist and moralist of her standing would invoke such shallow arguments," said Boteach, who was en route to an appearance on the titillating syndicated television show "Blind Date." "I never got great applause from my work from the Jewish community — but my people are my people, whether they love or hate me."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: drlaura; jewishorthodoxy; lauraschlessinger; spiritualjourney
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To: Robert_Paulson2
My understanding was she got her license to counsel, AFTER it became an issue that she was NOT technically a "real" doctor offering "counsel" on the radio.

Your understanding is wrong. She was in private practice, and for better or for worse, her training is more than adequate based on what the state of California requires. Having said that, she constantly says it's not a therapy show, but one about ethical dillema's. And to be quite honest, a degree in philosophy, theology, or psychiatry does not give you what you need to be truly good at certain things.

51 posted on 08/15/2003 11:31:00 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: William Creel
Schlessinger is a rather common name.
52 posted on 08/16/2003 12:01:48 AM PDT by rmlew ("Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute.")
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To: Destro
I consider myself to be quite conservative, but I always found Dr. Laura to be very irritating and way too judgmental and cruel towards psychologically wounded/desperate people that called her show. She has been off the air here in Chicago (WLS-AM) for about 3 years, and her "dismissal" is still seen as relief to most of those who listen to that radio station, and to those that still work there from her syndication years with that station where she is still mocked as a joke.
53 posted on 08/16/2003 12:15:09 AM PDT by Lockbar
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To: Destro
While I always defending her right to express her views, I have also always found Dr. Laura to be a preachy, judgemental shrew. Now it turns out she is a hypocrite on many levels.

She preaches family values, but ends up having posed nude, to say nothing of letting her mother die alone in an apartment, rotting away for weeks, undiscovered.

Now we find out her religious beliefs are paper-thin, and she' shopping for another way. She's a phoney.

54 posted on 08/16/2003 4:59:15 AM PDT by veronica (http://www.petitiononline.com/KN50711/petition.html - Confirm Daniel Pipes to USIPF ......sign this!)
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To: veronica
Ditto yours.

Bump.

55 posted on 08/16/2003 5:00:22 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine ("what if the hokey pokey is really what its all about?" - Jean Paul Sartre)
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To: Destro
This admission by Dr. Laura has made my opinion of her go up 100%. I am not a fan of her show because I think she lacks compassion. I have heard her make statements that are needlessly harsh and are simplistic to say the least. I am happy to see that she does have the ability to examine herself. If your religion isn't working it isn't working and it takes personal integrity to admit that. She seems to be unwilling to live a lie. Many people stay in religions that do not meet their needs out of fear of a punitive God, fear of what others will think, fear of looking at themselves or just plain laziness. What they forget is that God looks upon the heart and he certainly knows a line of bull when he hears it. Maybe she will begin to realize that life is not always black and white and that sometimes the best choice is the one that appears wrong on the surface.

I believe that God honors honesty more that any other quality. By being honest with ourselves we open the door for change. Outward compliance to a faith one really does not believe in is a poisonous form of hypocrisy. I am in hopes that she will begin to see that real moral choices comes from a place deep in the heart not from Bible knowledge someone shoved in your head. Sometimes it is the process of getting there that is more important than doing what looks good to the outside world. The difficult path of making mistakes, getting it wrong, learning a better way is superior to having payed lip service to a moral code that has no true meaning to the individual

One of the main reasons I tend to turn away from the church is because I see a whole lot of Christan "look good". We all get together and make all the right noises. There is so much unspoken angst that one can almost chock in that atmosphere if they are the least bit sensitive. I would vastly prefer to hear people talk about what is really going on with them instead of trying to put on a theology they really don't believe in the hopes that it will fix them. what they don't realize is that it will never work because they are trying to sidestep the rather painful and difficult times that comes from self examination. They tend to think that others are a better expert on who they are than they are themselves. They tend to think their pastor can tell them everything they need to know about themselves and that somehow they will glen a meaningful faith. Pastor or those in religious leadership can certain offer ideas and insights but they can't do it for you. One must be willing to enter their own dark night of the soul with nothing but their faith in God to pull them through. Without this one will always be on the surface in terms of their relationship with God.

56 posted on 08/16/2003 5:02:07 AM PDT by foolscap
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To: Catspaw
How sad that she chooses to reject her religion by the faxes her fans and listeners send her..

Theoretical religion is the arena of pastors and rabbis. Applied religion is the arena of the faithful. She probably saw the real thing in those letters.

Moreover, Dr. Laura's migration from error to the truth has been an ongoing process. She's matured politically and spiritually every year she's been on the air. This is just part of that process.
57 posted on 08/16/2003 5:09:39 AM PDT by farmer18th
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To: RLK
Will Rogers once quipped that Christianity should not be judged by the actions of Christians. I think Dr. Laura, a person that I admire greatly, has made the same mistake regarding Judaism and Jews. My family and I have been abused by my fellow Jews in ways that my gentile friends would not dream of.

Much of the abuse I have taken lately is a result of my conservatism, and the unfortunate attachment of the majority of Jews to the Democratic party. Much of my family's abuse was as a result of our living in a small city, away from the Jewish neighborhood, which has set us apart.

My brother has made the same mistake as Dr. Laura, judging Judaism by the actions of those claiming to be Jewish, and he is now attending an evangalical church. I grieve over his decision, because, while I freely admit to being a sinner, my conservatism is affirmed by my Judaism, and my life principles are based on my Judaism, I also realise that my brother is getting a dose of Jewish life principles at the church, whether he knows it or not. We worship the same G-d, it's just that other guy he keeps mentioning that makes me involuntarily flinch.

I think, if Dr. Laura is looking for spiritual fullfillment, she is missing the whole point of Judaism. It is more rational than that. Loving the Lord does not mean getting a rush. It means following His law. I am distressed at her decision. but, I wish her well. She has done a great service for our country.
58 posted on 08/16/2003 5:23:10 AM PDT by Daveinyork
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To: farmer18th
The ultimate test of anyone's belief system is how they live, not what they preach. Talk is cheap. Dr. Laura appears to talk a good game, but in the end, her actions indicate that there is a hole in her soul. What is a more basic element of any religion, than honor thy mother and father? That most basic of human callings was beyond her ability to fulfill. That's pretty pathetic and revealing.
59 posted on 08/16/2003 5:24:27 AM PDT by veronica (http://www.petitiononline.com/KN50711/petition.html - Confirm Daniel Pipes to USIPF ......sign this!)
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To: bethelgrad
one of the reasons I'm not a big fan of hers is her lack of grace both in tone and rhetoric. her constant message is be perfect be perfect be perfect. i believe in living righteously, but people make mistakes and i think she could be more gentle in trying to pull people up

You have a very good point. If telling people to be perfect made them perfect we would have no problems in the word. I remember her discussion with one caller that was so harsh and judgmental it made my stomach turn. A young woman who was engaged to be married called and told Dr. Laura she did not feel she wanted to have children. Dr, Laura came down on her like a ton of brick. She told her she was selfish and that God mission for us was to be fruitful and multiply. I thought this gal was telling the truth about what was really in her heart and that since her fiancé wanted children it was better to end the engagement. The caller's point was valid it would be unfair to marry a man who wanted a family if you did not agree with the the game plain. It is much less selfish for her to make what was obviously a painful choice and allow this man to find someone who can help him meet his dreams for his own life. Having children you don't want to have because of outside pressure is very selfish no matter what Dr. Laura says

60 posted on 08/16/2003 5:27:38 AM PDT by foolscap
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To: veronica
What is a more basic element of any religion, than honor thy mother and father?

You would agree that a "father or mother" who required you to break the first commandment, or the second, or the third, forfeits the right to be honoured? We don't know the circumstances of that episode in her life, and--while I don't agree with every one of her on air pronouncements--she seems to be on the path to the truth. Judaism is an incomplete religion. She merely discovered that.
61 posted on 08/16/2003 5:28:42 AM PDT by farmer18th
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To: farmer18th
Judaism is an incomplete religion. She merely discovered that.

Glad to see you are not a religious bigot. /sarcasm

I would never say Christianity is not a complete religion, I would merely say it's not for me.

Then again, Judaism is not a religion that is into prosthletizing or seeks to convert.

62 posted on 08/16/2003 5:34:27 AM PDT by veronica (http://www.petitiononline.com/KN50711/petition.html - Confirm Daniel Pipes to USIPF ......sign this!)
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To: veronica
What is a more basic element of any religion, than honor thy mother and father? That most basic of human callings was beyond her ability to fulfill.

From what I have read, the meaning of that commandment in the original teachings is to honor them because they have given you life and supported you. There is no basis to "homor you mother and father" if they abandon you or physically or mentally abuse you. That would be honoring evil.

From things I have read about the situation, Dr. Laura's mother was at least mentally and emotionally abusive and some indications are that she may have been physically abusinve. Dr. Laura did the bibically compelled thing - she made certain that her mother's physical needs were taken care of and distanced herself and her family from the abuse.

Coming from a similar situation in our family between my wife and her mother, I can see why Dr. Laura did not want the poison in her life.

63 posted on 08/16/2003 5:34:57 AM PDT by Crusher138 (crush her? I don't even know her!)
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To: veronica
I would never say Christianity is not a complete religion, I would merely say it's not for me.

The problem here is that Christ Himself, by your definition, is a "religious bigot." When He said, "No man cometh unto the Father but by me," you either have to accept or reject that claim. Perhaps without vocalizing it, Dr. Laura is considering that claim?
64 posted on 08/16/2003 5:38:44 AM PDT by farmer18th
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To: Crusher138
Interesting, that if Dr. Laura's mother was abusive, IF that is so, that Dr. Laura in some sense became her mother. If in fact - There is no basis to "honor you mother and father" if they abandon you or physically or mentally abuse you. -- didn't Laura repeat her mother's sin by abandoning her? Shouldn't such a skilled therapist be able to make some sort of peace with her mother?

And to be honest, while Dr. Laura was telling the rest of the world how to live, should she not have been honest about her own life, and her own failings?

65 posted on 08/16/2003 5:40:03 AM PDT by veronica (http://www.petitiononline.com/KN50711/petition.html - Confirm Daniel Pipes to USIPF ......sign this!)
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To: farmer18th
There is really no debating with someone who thinks their way is the only way, as you apparently do.
66 posted on 08/16/2003 5:42:03 AM PDT by veronica (http://www.petitiononline.com/KN50711/petition.html - Confirm Daniel Pipes to USIPF ......sign this!)
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To: veronica
What is a more basic element of any religion, than honor thy mother and father?

This is true but I get the impression that Dr.Laura's mother was into a very unhealthy life style and had chosen herself to cut contact with both her children. There is only so much one can do for a person who is unwilling to receive or who is asking things of you that are unhealthy. For example if Dr. Laura's mom was a heroin addict should she have gone over and loaded her syringe. That might make mom happy but is that all one's life is about. Dr. Laura said that she and other family had sought on several occasions to get their Mom to seek psychiatric help. She refused. She cut off contact with her family. That's all mom's choice. Maybe in this case honoring her mother involved honoring her choice to have the live she made for herself. That it ended in tragedy may will be the consequences of her choice not that her children didn't honor her enough

67 posted on 08/16/2003 5:46:18 AM PDT by foolscap
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To: RLK
Judaism and Jews have long tended toward the direction of the Episcopal church and Marxism.

Not Orthodox Jews.

68 posted on 08/16/2003 5:51:06 AM PDT by Salman (Mickey Akbar)
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To: veronica
There is really no debating with someone who thinks their way is the only way, as you apparently do.

You've got me wrong. I know I make lots of mistakes. However, Christ claimed that "no man" comes to Father in Heaven "but by" Him. When someone makes an absolute claim, it's wrong, and false-hearted, to pretend the claim was not made. We can disagree, but--given the consequences--we shouldn't be too comfortable in that disagreement.
69 posted on 08/16/2003 5:51:23 AM PDT by farmer18th
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To: Destro
Schlessinger began her program last Tuesday by noting that, prior to each broadcast, she spends an hour reading faxes from fans and listeners. "By and large the faxes from Christians have been very loving, very supportive," she said. "From my own religion, I have either gotten nothing, which is 99% of it, or two of the nastiest letters I have gotten in a long time. I guess that's my point — I don't get much back. Not much warmth coming back."

Schlessinger even hinted at a possible turn to Christianity — a move that, radio insiders say, would elevate her career far beyond the 300 stations that currently syndicate her show. "I have envied all my Christian friends who really, universally, deeply feel loved by God," she said. "They use the name Jesus when they refer to God... that was a mystery, being connected to God."

Dr. Laura might want to look into Jews for Jesus


70 posted on 08/16/2003 6:01:06 AM PDT by Sabertooth (Viva la 187!)
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To: William Creel
No, it's the filmmaker, John.
71 posted on 08/16/2003 6:03:12 AM PDT by paulklenk (Freedom isn't free.)
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To: Sabertooth; dennisw
Schlessinger began her program last Tuesday by noting that, prior to each broadcast, she spends an hour reading faxes from fans and listeners. "By and large the faxes from Christians have been very loving, very supportive," she said. "From my own religion, I have either gotten nothing, which is 99% of it, or two of the nastiest letters I have gotten in a long time. I guess that's my point — I don't get much back. Not much warmth coming back."

Her conversion sounds more like a career move than a deeply-felt religious experience. She tried Judaism, but her Jewish fans were, apparently, not appropropriately sycophantic, so now she'll see if she gets the "proper respect" from her Christian fans. What a superficial lady.

72 posted on 08/16/2003 6:14:05 AM PDT by veronica (http://www.petitiononline.com/KN50711/petition.html - Confirm Daniel Pipes to USIPF ......sign this!)
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To: Crusher138
From things I have read about the situation, Dr. Laura's mother was at least mentally and emotionally abusive and some indications are that she may have been physically abusinve. Dr. Laura did the bibically compelled thing - she made certain that her mother's physical needs were taken care of and distanced herself and her family from the abuse.

In light your defense of Laura's abandonment of her "abusive" mother, which for the sake of this argument I will accept, it's interesting to note that this supposedly terrible mother was the Catholic parent, and that Laura's father was the Jewish parent.

73 posted on 08/16/2003 6:22:13 AM PDT by veronica (http://www.petitiononline.com/KN50711/petition.html - Confirm Daniel Pipes to USIPF ......sign this!)
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To: Antoninus; Destro
Maybe you can answer question #2 then:

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
74 posted on 08/16/2003 6:44:13 AM PDT by lelio
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To: veronica
I don't know enough to draw any real conclusions. I listen to an hour or two of her show once or twice a month.

To my eyes there are a few subjects, like religious inclinations, or tastes in a mate, or the experience of grieving, where people are so publicly diffferent about matters that are so innately personal, that it's a wonder that we're all from the same species. It's a really random list, I know, but I think that is a nice reflection of the unpredictability of people. I like to give a lot of latitude in those areas.

Speaking of grieving, didn't Dr. Laura's estranged mother pass away in the last six months? I understand she was estranged by her own choice from her own family, not just Dr. Laura. Sometimes a painful situation like that can have blowback in other areas of our lives. Just a thought.


75 posted on 08/16/2003 6:55:54 AM PDT by Sabertooth (Viva la 187!)
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To: veronica
"By and large the faxes from Christians have been very loving, very supportive," she said. "From my own religion, I have either gotten nothing, which is 99% of it, or two of the nastiest letters I have gotten in a long time. I guess that's my point — I don't get much back. Not much warmth coming back.".

The reason is obvious. Her audience has few Jewish listeners. By and large Jews are too liberal to appreciate her perspective. She seems to have a lot of committed Christians phone her up. If she becomes Christian she'll be more like her target audience. I'll bet in the next year or two she will come out as Christian.
76 posted on 08/16/2003 7:10:51 AM PDT by dennisw (G_d is at war with Amalek for all generations)
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To: dennisw
I'll bet in the next year or two she will come out as Christian.

I agree. For those of us who have listened to her, on and off, since she was the silent one at the "Meeting of the Mouths" on KFI, (meaning she was too shy to speak up in the presence of the Rush-master), it's apparent that her political and spiritual migration has been ongoing. Ever notice that most thinking people become more conservative and more Christian as time passes?
77 posted on 08/16/2003 7:18:18 AM PDT by farmer18th
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To: farmer18th; dennisw
Ever notice that most thinking people become more conservative and more Christian as time passes?

More conservative perhaps, not necessarily more Christian. There are many conservative Jews, more all the time.

And religion is about one's relationship with God, not about one's relationship with one's fanbase. Maybe Dr. Laura's Jewish listeners were more disturbed by her hypocrisy. Since Jews tend to be live and let live, perhaps her moralistic tone, which turned out to be a facade, grated on them.

78 posted on 08/16/2003 8:57:21 AM PDT by veronica (http://www.petitiononline.com/KN50711/petition.html - Confirm Daniel Pipes to USIPF ......sign this!)
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To: dennisw
If she becomes Christian she'll be more like her target audience.

So it's all about ratings...how sad for her. She's very confused. Physician - heal thyself.

79 posted on 08/16/2003 9:03:34 AM PDT by veronica (http://www.petitiononline.com/KN50711/petition.html - Confirm Daniel Pipes to USIPF ......sign this!)
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To: foolscap
Your post was probably the best thing I have read on this forum in 5 years. Thank you very much for taking the effort to share your well-thought out insight. I think my 18 year old daughter will get something out of it too.
Peace.
80 posted on 08/16/2003 11:23:49 AM PDT by truthkeeper
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To: Destro
My knowledge base is (I dare say) more expansive than yours I bet...

Hey, maybe. But I've seen several of your posts and I'm not terribly impressed. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.
81 posted on 08/16/2003 1:37:06 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: lelio
Maybe you can answer question #2 then:

I've been trying to get slithertarians to answer a similar question for years now, seeing that contract slavery would have to be allowed under a true libertarian system.
82 posted on 08/16/2003 1:42:44 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: Antoninus
That is more than I can say for your posts. At least you remember reading mine.
83 posted on 08/16/2003 2:27:47 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: veronica; Destro; Catspaw; Chancellor Palpatine; RLK; Daveinyork; farmer18th; bethelgrad; ...
Her conversion sounds more like a career move than a deeply-felt religious experience. She tried Judaism, but her Jewish fans were, apparently, not appropropriately sycophantic, so now she'll see if she gets the "proper respect" from her Christian fans. What a superficial lady. # 72

***************

You think that Dr. Laura chose to be Jewish to increase her fan base?!

We live in America, not Israel, veronica. If Dr. Laura wanted a large fan base, she'd have a ready-made foundation for wealth and respect by chosing to be a Christian. It's worked for hundreds of television preachers.

Dr. Laura chose the Jewish religion while working in a Christian nation. She chose Judaism even though most Christians "know" that Jews killed Christ. That took moral courage. Her choice of Judism demonstrates that she uses neither political nor monetary considerations in her search for truth.

She's an honorable lady.

84 posted on 08/16/2003 2:52:34 PM PDT by exodus
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To: exodus
She chose Judaism even though most Christians "know" that Jews killed Christ......


Dum dum dum and dumb enough to let your true feelings show. Thanks for the non-wisdom.
85 posted on 08/16/2003 2:55:17 PM PDT by dennisw (G_d is at war with Amalek for all generations)
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To: Antoninus; lelio; Destro
To:
I've been trying to get slithertarians to answer a similar question for years now, seeing that contract slavery would have to be allowed under a true libertarian system.

***************

Slavery isn't illegal anyway, Antoninus. The word "except" means "with the exclusion of." Slavery is allowed for those convicted of a crime in a court of law.

13th Amendment

Section 1.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

86 posted on 08/16/2003 3:10:57 PM PDT by exodus
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To: exodus
I don't think her conversion had anything to do with her career. It was her personal search for meaning. Orthodox Jews usually discourage conversion anyway.
87 posted on 08/16/2003 3:18:41 PM PDT by af_vet_1981
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To: dennisw
exodus - She chose Judaism even though most Christians "know" that Jews killed Christ
dennisw - Dum dum dum and dumb enough to let your true feelings show. Thanks for the non-wisdom.

***************

I am a Christian, dennisw.

Jews did not kill Jesus; Romans with the help of corrupt Jewish politicians killed Jesus.

Still, you're being dishonest if you claim that most Christians of the world, or even of our own nation, don't blame the Jews for Jesus's death.

88 posted on 08/16/2003 3:24:22 PM PDT by exodus (Please save the personal attacks for those who don't agree with you.)
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To: af_vet_1981
I don't think her conversion had anything to do with her career. It was her personal search for meaning. Orthodox Jews usually discourage conversion anyway.

***************

I agree.

89 posted on 08/16/2003 3:25:50 PM PDT by exodus
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To: exodus
"She chose Judaism even though most Christians "know" that Jews killed Christ."


True Christians know we all killed Christ.

90 posted on 08/16/2003 3:26:46 PM PDT by keats5
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To: exodus; dennisw; veronica
She chose Judaism even though most Christians "know" that Jews killed Christ.

I'm a Christian, and I don't know what you're talking about.

The Gospels are clear... Jesus had Jewish followers and Jewish enemies. Some of those enemies persuaded the Romans to crucify Jesus. "Jews" didn't collectively do any one thing or another with regard to Jesus and His crucifixion.

You'd best be careful with your rhetoric, because your phrasing as quoted above is dangerously inflammatory, at the least.


91 posted on 08/16/2003 3:28:20 PM PDT by Sabertooth (Viva la 187!)
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To: af_vet_1981
I don't think her conversion had anything to do with her career. It was her personal search for meaning. Orthodox Jews usually discourage conversion anyway.

Dr Laura is writing a new book. For that book she had asked listeners to send her faxes regarding what is meaningful in their lives, or how they have turned their lives around (I'm basing this upon hearing the show off and on and only hearing random comments about the faxes).

In reading these faxes, Dr Laura has noticed a great number of her listeners have been able to beat addictions, turn around emotional angst, overcome difficult childhoods,and seen the quality of their lives improved by having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Dr Laura has obviously been searching for spirituality. She began with Judaism in general, and when it wasn't helping to fulfill her she dove more deeply into it, hoping to understand better the law, and probably be "better" at it, believing it was a deficit in her which kept her from feeling whatever it was she hoped to feel.

She's obviously never reached what she hoped to find. But is seeing that there may be another path to it. Maybe Dr Laura will never find what she seeks. But then, maybe she will. That she continues the journey in the face of criticism is admirable.

92 posted on 08/16/2003 4:09:02 PM PDT by Dianna
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To: William Creel
Isn't her huband Arthur Schlessinger?

I don't listen to Dr. Laura (or ANY radio psychobabbler), but here is what I heard elsewhere:

Schlessinger is Dr. Laura's maiden name. It is also the name of her son. Dr. Laura has said that a woman should take her husband's name, as should the children. But she made an exception in her case. Her reason is that her husband has nephews, so his family name will live on. But unless Dr. Laura's son took her name, her name would die out.

Still, it strikes me as yet another example of her hypocrisy.

93 posted on 08/16/2003 4:19:14 PM PDT by Commie Basher
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To: veronica
I would never say Christianity is not a complete religion, I would merely say it's not for me.

Very tolerant. But what are your (or other FReepers) views on Islam?

94 posted on 08/16/2003 4:20:31 PM PDT by Commie Basher
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To: Commie Basher
Schlessinger is Dr. Laura's maiden name. It is also the name of her son. Dr. Laura has said that a woman should take her husband's name, as should the children. But she made an exception in her case. Her reason is that her husband has nephews, so his family name will live on. But unless Dr. Laura's son took her name, her name would die out.

She does that alot, doesn't she - "do as I say not what I do."

As far as Islam is concerned, I never gave it much thought until 9-11, and the recent intifada.

Truth be told Islam seems more like a cult than a religion to me, and what cannot be disputed is that it has been hijacked by radicals, and not just a few radicals - LOTS of them. And they kill people. Sure you have the odd Christian or Jew who goes wiggy, and turns violent or fanatical, but not to the degree Islamists have. So the question arises, what is it about Islam that has spawned so many violent fanatics??

95 posted on 08/16/2003 4:31:30 PM PDT by veronica (http://www.petitiononline.com/KN50711/petition.html - Confirm Daniel Pipes to USIPF ......sign this!)
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To: exodus
Dr. Laura chose the Jewish religion while working in a Christian nation. She chose Judaism even though most Christians "know" that Jews killed Christ.

All of the professed Christians that I know, don't "know" anything of the kind. Or at least don't hold it against me. I'm Jewish, by the way.

This is America in the 21st century. Not really a Christian nation, though there are plenty of Christians. And the USA was never officially Christian, though they were once the majority.

Nearly all the anti-Jewish stuff that I see comes from the non-Christian left, including sad to say, some Jews. The rest is from a few left over Ku Kluxers and the like. OK those guys claim to be Christians, but Christians in general don't think they are.

That took moral courage. Her choice of Judism demonstrates that she uses neither political nor monetary considerations in her search for truth.

It's forbidden in Jewish law to question the sincerity of a convert. Is it also forbidden to question the former sincerity of an ex-convert? According to some Orthodox authorities, she's still Jewish according to Jewish law. She can be an apostate, but can't go back to being a Gentile.

Now I'm not sure I buy into that, but I submit it for your consideration as a possible position you might not have been aware of.

I don't think she converted for political power or money, but her disappointment with the lack of touchy-feely-ness causes me to raise an eyebrow.

96 posted on 08/16/2003 4:34:22 PM PDT by Salman (Mickey Akbar)
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To: veronica
I don't think Islam has spawned so many violent fanatics, proportionately speaking. There are a billion Muslims in the world. How many turn to terrorism? Thousands? Even 10,000 would be .01% of a billion.

At the risk of sounding like a liberal, the Third World's violence may be seen as growing pains as it industrializes and modernizes. The West suffered severe growing pains on the path to modernization (Europe's Thirty Years War between Catholics and Protestants, English and American Civil Wars, French and Russian Revolutions, bloody labor strikes, two World Wars).

The Third World, much of which is Muslim, is simply catching up. But if you look at the numbers, only a small % of them are violent. And the West still has plenty of violence in its inner cities and such, it's just a different kind of violence than terrorism. But I see nothing inherent in Islam that necessarily makes it more violent, or that would prevent it from modernizing over time. For instance, Iran had a modern middle class under the Shah, and many middle class Iranians still exist, in the US and in Iran. I've met Westernized Muslims from Iran, as well as Burma.

97 posted on 08/16/2003 4:41:35 PM PDT by Commie Basher
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To: Sabertooth; Ippolita
exodus - You think that Dr. Laura chose to be Jewish to increase her fan base?! We live in America, not Israel, veronica. If Dr. Laura wanted a large fan base, she'd have a ready-made foundation for wealth and respect by chosing to be a Christian. It's worked for hundreds of television preachers. Dr. Laura chose the Jewish religion while working in a Christian nation. She chose Judaism even though most Christians "know" that Jews killed Christ. That took moral courage. Her choice of Judism demonstrates that she uses neither political nor monetary considerations in her search for truth. She's an honorable lady.
Sabertooth - I'm a Christian, and I don't know what you're talking about. The Gospels are clear... Jesus had Jewish followers and Jewish enemies. Some of those enemies persuaded the Romans to crucify Jesus. "Jews" didn't collectively do any one thing or another with regard to Jesus and His crucifixion. You'd best be careful with your rhetoric, because your phrasing as quoted above is dangerously inflammatory, at the least.

***************

Yes, the Bible doesn't say that the Jews killed Jesus, but until a few years ago, the Catholic Church did; and Bible-thumpering Protestants throughout the United States and Europe said so, too. Almost every Christian denomination has blamed Jews for the death of Jesus sometime in the past.

It's only been in recent history that Jews have been given the benefit of the doubt in this regard.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, Sabertooth, it's only because you deny history. The Inquisition and the Holocost were justified by attributing Jesus's death to the Jews.

I am a Christian also, and I don't believe that the Jewish people killed Jesus. A simple reading of the Bible shows that all of Jesus's first followers were Jewish, as was Jesus himself, and that Jesus was killed by the Romans, at the urging of corrupt politicians. That doesn't change history; for centuries, laymen have been told that Jesus was murdered by Jews.

It's just been in the last half-century that false belief has been challeged by Christian leaders, and the belief that Jews murdered Jesus is still widespread today.

98 posted on 08/16/2003 4:44:24 PM PDT by exodus
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To: exodus
She chose Judaism even though most Christians "know" that Jews killed Christ. That took moral courage.

Excuse me, but I must beg to differ with you here. My faith teaches that Christ dies for our sins and that it was the will of God. If that is the case it's hardly right to say he was killed by the Jews. He happened to be Jewish himself, he was born a Jew and he died a Jew. The men involved were merely bending to God's will. If you remember, the night before he was taken he asked God to take away this bitter cup. It was not to be. Therefore, everyone played their parts exactly as God wished. Be mad at the particular priests, not an entire people.

99 posted on 08/16/2003 4:45:57 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: veronica; Commie Basher
To: Commie Basher
Truth be told Islam seems more like a cult than a religion to me, and what cannot be disputed is that it has been hijacked by radicals, and not just a few radicals - LOTS of them. And they kill people. Sure you have the odd Christian or Jew who goes wiggy, and turns violent or fanatical, but not to the degree Islamists have. So the question arises, what is it about Islam that has spawned so many violent fanatics??

***************

The Jews themselves have been guilty of fanaticism, for example when they killed every man, woman, and child in God's name, and even all the domestic animals, when entering Caanan.

The Spanish Inquisition wasn't an "odd" institution, it had the support of the Spanish people and government. They considered Judism a "cult," and happily murdered anyone who wouldn't "voluntarily" convert to Christianity.

The same thing happened with the Christian Crusades, hundreds of thousands of Christian fanatics killing heathen Moslems and Jews by God's holy name.

You would do better to ask "what is it about peace-loving religions that has spawned so many violent fanatics?"

The answer is that religions are not composed of saints, they're made up of ordinary people who sometimes get carried away by their beliefs, or get deceived by corrupt leaders.

100 posted on 08/16/2003 5:06:55 PM PDT by exodus
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