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Why Humans and Their Fur Parted Ways
The New York Times (Science Times) ^ | August 19, 2003 | NICHOLAS WADE

Posted on 08/19/2003 5:41:06 AM PDT by Pharmboy


Illustration by Michael Rothman
Before
An Australopithecus, sporting full-bodied
fur about four million years ago.


After
An archaic human walked fur-free about
1.2 million years ago, carrying fire on the savanna

ONE of the most distinctive evolutionary changes as humans parted company from their fellow apes was their loss of body hair. But why and when human body hair disappeared, together with the matter of when people first started to wear clothes, are questions that have long lain beyond the reach of archaeology and paleontology.

Ingenious solutions to both issues have now been proposed, independently, by two research groups analyzing changes in DNA. The result, if the dates are accurate, is something of an embarrassment. It implies we were naked for more than a million years before we started wearing clothes.

Dr. Alan R. Rogers, an evolutionary geneticist at the University of Utah, has figured out when humans lost their hair by an indirect method depending on the gene that determines skin color. Dr. Mark Stone- king of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, believes he has established when humans first wore clothes. His method too is indirect: it involves dating the evolution of the human body louse, which infests only clothes.

Meanwhile a third group of researchers, resurrecting a suggestion of Darwin, has come up with a novel explanation of why humans lost their body hair in the first place.

Mammals need body hair to keep warm, and lose it only for special evolutionary reasons. Whales and walruses shed their hair to improve speed in their new medium, the sea. Elephants and rhinoceroses have specially thick skins and are too bulky to lose much heat on cold nights. But why did humans, the only hairless primates, lose their body hair?

One theory holds that the hominid line went through a semi-aquatic phase — witness the slight webbing on our hands. A better suggestion is that loss of body hair helped our distant ancestors keep cool when they first ventured beyond the forest's shade and across the hot African savannah. But loss of hair is not an unmixed blessing in regulating body temperature because the naked skin absorbs more energy in the heat of the day and loses more in the cold of the night.

Dr. Mark Pagel of the University of Reading in England and Dr. Walter Bodmer of the John Radcliffe Hospital in Oxford have proposed a different solution to the mystery and their idea, if true, goes far toward explaining contemporary attitudes about hirsuteness. Humans lost their body hair, they say, to free themselves of external parasites that infest fur — blood-sucking lice, fleas and ticks and the diseases they spread.


Paul Smith for The New York Times
Included on the list of hairless mammals is the hippopotamus.
It is believed that mammals lose their hair only for particular
evolutionary reasons.

Once hairlessness had evolved through natural selection, Dr. Pagel and Dr. Bodmer suggest, it then became subject to sexual selection, the development of features in one sex that appeal to the other. Among the newly furless humans, bare skin would have served, like the peacock's tail, as a signal of fitness. The pains women take to keep their bodies free of hair — joined now by some men — may be no mere fashion statement but the latest echo of an ancient instinct. Dr. Pagel's and Dr. Bodmer's article appeared in a recent issue of The Proceedings of the Royal Society.

Dr. Pagel said he had noticed recently that advertisements for women's clothing often included a model showing a large expanse of bare back. "We have thought of showing off skin as a secondary sexual characteristic but maybe it's simpler than that — just a billboard for healthy skin," he said.

The message — "No fleas, lice or ticks on me!" — is presumably concealed from the conscious mind of both sender and receiver.

There are several puzzles for the new theory to explain. One is why, if loss of body hair deprived parasites of a refuge, evolution allowed pubic hair to be retained. Dr. Pagel and Dr. Bodmer suggest that these humid regions, dense with sweat glands, serve as launching pads for pheromones, airborne hormones known to convey sexual signals in other mammals though not yet identified in humans.

Another conundrum is why women have less body hair than men. Though both sexes may prefer less hair in the other, the pressure of sexual selection in this case may be greater on women, whether because men have had greater powers of choice or an more intense interest in physical attributes. "Common use of depilatory agents testifies to the continuing attractions of hairlessness, especially in human females," the two researchers write.

Dr. David L. Reed, a louse expert at the University of Utah, said the idea that humans might have lost their body hair as a defense against parasites was a "fascinating concept." Body lice spread three diseases — typhus, relapsing fever and trench fever — and have killed millions of people in time of war, he said.

But others could take more convincing. "There are all kinds of notions as to the advantage of hair loss, but they are all just-so stories," said Dr. Ian Tattersall, a paleoanthropologist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York.

Causes aside, when did humans first lose their body hair? Dr. Rogers, of the University of Utah, saw a way to get a fix on the date after reading an article about a gene that helps determine skin color. The gene, called MC1R, specifies a protein that serves as a switch between the two kinds of pigment made by human cells. Eumelanin, which protects against the ultraviolet rays of the sun, is brown-black; pheomelanin, which is not protective, is a red-yellow color.

Three years ago Dr. Rosalind Harding of Oxford University and others made a worldwide study of the MC1R gene by extracting it from blood samples and analyzing the sequence of DNA units in the gene. They found that the protein made by the gene is invariant in African populations, but outside of Africa the gene, and its protein, tended to vary a lot.

Dr. Harding concluded that the gene was kept under tight constraint in Africa, presumably because any change in its protein increased vulnerability to the sun's ultraviolet light, and was fatal to its owner. But outside Africa, in northern Asia and Europe, the gene was free to accept mutations, the constant natural changes in DNA, and produced skin colors that were not dark.

Reading Dr. Harding's article recently as part of a different project, Dr. Rogers wondered why all Africans had acquired the same version of the gene. Chimpanzees, Dr. Harding had noted, have many different forms of the gene, as presumably did the common ancestor of chimps and people.

As soon as the ancestral human population in Africa started losing its fur, Dr. Rogers surmised, people would have needed dark skin as a protection against sunlight. Anyone who had a version of the MC1R gene that produced darker skin would have had a survival advantage, and in a few generations this version of the gene would have made a clean sweep through the population.

There may have been several clean sweeps, each one producing a more effective version of the MC1R gene. Dr. Rogers saw a way to put a date on at least the most recent sweep. Some of the DNA units in a gene can be changed without changing the amino acid units in the protein the gene specifies. The MC1R genes Dr. Harding had analyzed in African populations had several of these silent mutations. Since the silent mutations accumulate in a random but steady fashion, they serve as a molecular clock, one that started ticking at the time of the last sweep of the MC1R gene through the ancestral human population.

From the number of silent mutations in African versions of the MC1R gene, Dr. Rogers and two colleagues, Dr. David Iltis and Dr. Stephen Wooding, calculate that the last sweep probably occurred 1.2 million years ago, when the human population consisted of a mere 14,000 breeding individuals. In other words, humans have been hairless at least since this time, and maybe for much longer. Their article is to appear in a future issue of Current Anthropology.

The estimated minimum date for human hairlessness seems to fall in reasonably well with the schedule of other major adaptations that turned an ordinary ape into the weirdest of all primates. Hominids first started occupying areas with few shade trees some 1.7 million years ago. This is also the time when long limbs and an external nose appeared. Both are assumed to be adaptations to help dissipate heat, said Dr. Richard Klein, an archaeologist at Stanford University. Loss of hair and dark skin could well have emerged at the same time, so Dr. Rogers' argument was "completely plausible," he said.

From 1.6 million years ago the world was in the grip of the Pleistocene ice age, which ended only 10,000 years ago. Even in Africa, nights could have been cold for fur-less primates. But Dr. Ropers noted that people lived without clothes until recently in chilly places like Tasmania and Tierra del Fuego.

Chimpanzees have pale skin and are born with pale faces that tan as they grow older. So the prototype hominid too probably had fair skin under dark hair, said Dr. Nina Jablonski, an expert on the evolution of skin color at the California Academy of Sciences. "It was only later that we lost our hair and at the same time evolved an evenly dark pigmentation," she said.

Remarkable as it may seem that genetic analysis can reach back and date an event deep in human history, there is a second approach to determining when people lost their body hair, or at least started to wear clothes. It has to do with lice. Humans have the distinction of being host to three different kinds: the head louse, the body louse and the pubic louse. The body louse, unlike all other kinds that infect mammals, clings to clothing, not hair. It presumably evolved from the head louse after humans lost their body hair and started wearing clothes.

Dr. Stoneking, together with Dr. Ralf Kittler and Dr. Manfred Kayser, report in today's issue of Current Biology that they compared the DNA of human head and body lice from around the world, as well as chimpanzee lice as a point of evolutionary comparison. From study of the DNA differences, they find that the human body louse indeed evolved from the louse, as expected, but that this event took place surprisingly recently, sometime between 42,000 and 72,000 years ago. Humans must have been wearing clothes at least since this time.

Modern humans left Africa about 50,000 years ago. Dr. Stoneking and his colleagues say the invention of clothing may have been a factor in the successful spread of humans around the world, especially in the cooler climates of the north.

Dr. Stoneking said in an interview that clothing could also have been part of the suite of sophisticated behaviors, such as advanced tools, trade and art, that appear in the archaeological record some 50,000 years ago, just before humans migrated from Africa.

The head louse would probably have colonized clothing quite soon after the niche became available — within thousands and tens of thousands of years, Dr. Stoneking said. So body lice were probably not in existence when humans and Neanderthals diverged some 250,000 or more years ago. This implies that the common ancestor of humans and Neanderthals did not wear clothes and therefore probably Neanderthals didn't either.

But Dr. Klein, the Stanford archeologist, said he thought Neanderthals and other archaic humans must have produced clothing of some kind in order to live in temperate latitudes like Europe and the Far East. Perhaps the body lice don't show that, he suggested, because early clothes were too loose fitting or made of the wrong material.

Dr. Stoneking said he got the idea for his louse project after one of his children came home with a note about a louse infestation in school. The note assured parents that lice could only live a few hours when away from the human body, implying to Dr. Stoneking that their evolution must closely mirror the spread of humans around the world.

The compilers of Genesis write that as soon as Adam and Eve realized they were naked, they sewed themselves aprons made of leaves from the fig tree, and that the Creator himself made them more durable skin coats before evicting them. But if Dr. Rogers and Dr. Stoneking are correct, humans were naked for a million years before they noticed their state of undress and called for the tailor.

Copyright the NY Times. For educational purposes only and not for commercial use.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: anthropology; archaeology; archaic; crabs; cromagnon; erectus; eve; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; heidelbergensis; helixmakemineadouble; history; humanevolution; lice; multiregionalism; neandertal; neanderthal; replacement
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To: Sam Cree
Sorry! Should have sourced that figure.

For anyone wanting to read the web article from the beginning, click here.

L and M are a neanderthal and a Cro-magnon, respectively.

101 posted on 08/19/2003 7:05:32 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: FreedomCalls
"Well, "M" looks a little like James Carville."

Yeah, has about as much hair!

102 posted on 08/19/2003 7:36:35 PM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: VadeRetro
Thanks.

So, if I am reading this right, Cro Magnon man was a "modern" man.
103 posted on 08/19/2003 7:42:07 PM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: VadeRetro
btw, now that you posted the picture, I see what they meant, talking about "long" faces on that other thread, and the relative shortness of ours.
104 posted on 08/19/2003 7:44:49 PM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Sam Cree
Another silly thread where people who should know better argue with creationists. They aren't going to change their limited view of the world why bother educating them?
105 posted on 08/19/2003 7:51:18 PM PDT by Sentis
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To: Sam Cree
Cro-magnon is basically modern and is grouped within H. sapiens. The fossils show a more robust appearance than the typical modern skull, but they're within easy striking distance.
106 posted on 08/19/2003 7:57:24 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Sam Cree
Yup. Some real pooch muzzles on that figure there.
107 posted on 08/19/2003 7:58:23 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro
Yeah, I see that the cheekbones are very prominent on that Cro Magnon skull.
108 posted on 08/19/2003 8:05:10 PM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Sam Cree
Background on that Cro-magnon find. (Doesn't get any prettier close up.)
109 posted on 08/19/2003 8:08:48 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro; Little Ray; Maria S
It is up to me to do the disclaimer on Mr. Retro's post #95.

M and N in that set are humans. L, K, and J are Neandertals which DNA tests have shown are not the ancestors of modern humans. That takes us back to I, Homo Egaster, which went extinct long before M and N ever show up in the fossil record (about 40 something thousand years ago). Those dots do not connect.

A-I homininds look as much like the great ape they just discovered in the Congo as they do a human. It does not follow that N and M descended from them.
110 posted on 08/19/2003 8:17:42 PM PDT by Ahban
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To: Ahban
Those dots do not connect.

You mean like, "Where are the transitionals?" Nothing will ever connect the dots for you.

When Darwin wrote, you know how much of that figure had been observed? "A" and "N." So long after he's dead we find B through M ordered correctly in the sediments. I keep asking, was he right or was he the luckiest charlatan of all time?

Out for the night.

111 posted on 08/19/2003 8:24:35 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: SLB
Well, my take on this article is this. The pictures at the top are captioned to show conventional wisdom, not stated as fact, also the webbing comment is refering to a theory that has benn around for a few decades, that our ancestors were in a tight spot, and lived in the water for a while (many generations)--the evidence supporting this theory is webbing, lack of body hair and fatty "blubber" layer under the skin. They obviously left the semi-aquatic lifestyle long ago. And nowhere here does it try to say you were evolved from a frog.
112 posted on 08/19/2003 8:44:25 PM PDT by Unassuaged
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To: LiteKeeper
Of course, they would never consider that we humans were originally without "fur" and that we were designed that way by a Creator Who in the end is going to have the Last Laugh!

So far, there's only one piece of evidence supporting this - the Bible (and Koran). But there are literally thousands of pieces of evidence - common genes and mutations and other genetic material - supporting the idea that we share a common ancestor with the (other) great apes.

Just the Bible and Koran. No other religion has anything much like Genesis.

113 posted on 08/19/2003 8:56:36 PM PDT by Virginia-American
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To: Virginia-American
So far, there's only one piece of evidence supporting this - the Bible (and Koran)

The evidence we have is exactly the same evidence that evolutionists have. Fossils are fossils are fossils. The difference is, we have a different worldview. We accept the fact of the existence of God, and His creative acts. The history of those acts is recorded in the Bible, that is true. But that does not automatically negate our interpretation of the facts.

I teach my students that truth claims are only true ir they comport with reality. Your truth claim of lot's of evidence for evolution just won't stand up to what is actually being discovered. The incredible complexity of even the smallest cell, chock full of information, defies an evolutionary explanation. The smallest known cell contains 482 genes and 540,00 base pairs in its DNA, and it doesn't have enough genetic information to live on its on - it is a parasite. So where did all the information for the first stand alone living cell come from? Evolutionist cannot answer that question...and yet that is the most basic question that can be asked.

Respectfully
LiteKeeper

114 posted on 08/19/2003 9:11:43 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: LiteKeeper
Fossils are fossils are fossils.

I never mentioned fossils - just the shared dna.

Your truth claim of lot's of evidence for evolution just won't stand up to what is actually being discovered

Check this out: Plagiarized Errors and Molecular Genetics

Especially the chart in section 4.7 Is there a non-evolutionary explanation for this?

[abiogenesis] Evolutionist cannot answer that question...

That's a far cry from "never will anwser that question". The genetic code was only discovered 50 years ago. do you think it's realistic to expect its origins to already have been figured out? It's being researched RNA World Lots of intriguing hypotheses and theorizing, not a whole lot of solid results yet. I'm very curious what we will find under the ice on some of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn.

115 posted on 08/19/2003 9:27:57 PM PDT by Virginia-American
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To: Pharmboy
Crap like this gives science and especially evoutionary theory a bad name. The louse theory is speculative enough, but to confound it with sexual dimorphism makes it read like a 3rd-rate science fiction fantasy. It's a shitty job, but I guess someone's got to make science interesting, relevant and captivating to the masses.
116 posted on 08/19/2003 10:52:26 PM PDT by Rudder
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To: VadeRetro
I stand corrected; however my point was that we did not evolve from modern apes. Some people think we evolved from chimps and gorillas and this obviously not the case. We share a distant common ancestor and from that point our species have diverged.
To go with your skulls, it is interesting to note that an infant chimp looks much more human than an adult chimp.
117 posted on 08/20/2003 6:25:08 AM PDT by Little Ray (When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!)
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To: e_engineer
ROTF!!! I missed that thread! Thanks for the link. I needed a giggle :)
118 posted on 08/20/2003 6:28:57 AM PDT by mewzilla
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To: paws_and_whiskers
LOL! I immediately thought of this guy!
119 posted on 08/20/2003 6:32:02 AM PDT by Snowy (My golden retriever can lick your honor student)
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To: Ahban
Might as well mention, regarding your other claims, that A and I (or B and I for that matter) don't look the same to me, nor do I and J look unbreachably different. There is nothing magical in your arbitrary lumpings.

Furthermore, different creationists (or even the same creationist at different times) produce different arbitrary lumpings from the same data. The game, of course, is to say that everything HERE is "An ape! Just an ape!" but everything THERE is "A man! Just a man!" So where is the line drawn?

All over the map.

Creationist Classifications of Hominid Fossils
Specimen Cuozzo
(1998)
Gish
(1985)
Mehlert
(1996)
Bowden
(1981)
Menton
(1988)
Taylor
(1992)
Gish
(1979)
Baker
(1976)
Taylor
and Van
Bebber
(1995)
Taylor
(1996)
Lubenow
(1992)
ER 1813 ER 1813
(510 cc)
Ape Ape Ape Ape Ape Ape
Java Man Java
(940 cc)
Ape Ape Human Ape Ape Human
Peking Man Peking
(915-
1225 cc)
Ape Ape Human Ape Human Human
ER 1470 ER 1470
(750 cc)
Ape Ape Ape Human Human Human
ER 3733 ER 3733
(850 cc)
Ape Human Human Human Human Human
WT 15000 WT 15000
(880 cc)
Ape Human Human Human Human Human

120 posted on 08/20/2003 7:11:04 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Little Ray
To go with your skulls, it is interesting to note that an infant chimp looks much more human than an adult chimp.

Yes. I think this is taken to be what they call an "infantilism" or a "juvenilism"--I forget exactly--in human evolution. We've evolved to retain some baby-ape look throughout our lives.

121 posted on 08/20/2003 7:13:33 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro
Neoteny.
122 posted on 08/20/2003 7:51:05 AM PDT by forsnax5
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To: forsnax5
I'm taking medicaton and it's under control.
123 posted on 08/20/2003 7:57:20 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Pharmboy
I never cease to be amused at the speculations of 'scientists'.
124 posted on 08/20/2003 7:59:29 AM PDT by MEGoody
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To: Sentis
"Another silly thread where people who should know better argue with creationists. They aren't going to change their limited view of the world why bother educating them?"

So you believe that whales and walruses lost their fur so they could swim faster?

Again, I never cease to be amazed at the speculations of 'scientists.'

125 posted on 08/20/2003 8:01:11 AM PDT by MEGoody
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To: Virginia-American
"That's a far cry from "never will anwser that question".

And do you have faith that man will some day answer that question?

126 posted on 08/20/2003 8:04:12 AM PDT by MEGoody
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To: katana
"If they really want to find ancient homo sapiens, they need to look near ancient shorelines, which because of changes in sea levels are now far off shore."

As I have stated a few times here, tooting my own horn shamelessly, I am designing an exhibition on paleontology in the Southern California area. I am a designer, not a scientist, but from what I have learned not all the ancient coastlines are under water now. A lot of fossils have been found in Orange County that are up to 100 million years old, and they are mostly marine creatures. In fact, the coast line was around where Riverside is now! Of course, there were no humans here then so no evidence of early man is found.

127 posted on 08/20/2003 8:26:15 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: Pharmboy
"Maria: dogs evolved from wolves and wolves still exist. OKAY?"

I read recently that dogs and wolves are genetically identical. Selective breeding and domestication have changed dogs over the last 50,000 years or however long it's been.

128 posted on 08/20/2003 8:34:39 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: SoCal Pubbie
Not exactly identical, but close enough to interbreed; genetic studies take it back to the derivation about 15,000 years ago--in Asia (Asian wolves).
129 posted on 08/20/2003 9:21:53 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Dems lie 'cause they have to...)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Brazil wax.

What on earth.... ?

Golly, you know, I'm really out of my depth when I try to go to these Very Important Threads that you intellectuals frequent. I'm more used to those brainless, trivial Laci Peterson murder threads.

130 posted on 08/20/2003 9:28:38 AM PDT by Devil_Anse
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To: SoCal Pubbie
I know I was over generalizing, and should have known that a freeper would catch me.

I guess tectonic uplift on the West Coast explains what you're seeing, but I wonder where the shorelines were within the past few million years, i.e. in the probable timeframe of human evolution. My favorite class in college (and one I actually paid attention in) was Geology and I've always been skeptical about "accepted" doctrines of how, when, and where the human species developed.

Your project sounds very interesting. Where will it be housed?

131 posted on 08/20/2003 9:29:51 AM PDT by katana
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To: MEGoody
Wake up I don't discourse with you people. The comment was menat to be to Vade in any case I clicked the worng person to respond to.

Believe what silliness you want it doesn't make it true.
132 posted on 08/20/2003 11:15:16 AM PDT by Sentis
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To: forsnax5
Neoteny.

I think the word I really wanted was "paedomorphism."

133 posted on 08/20/2003 12:34:42 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro
I think the word I really wanted was "paedomorphism."

An excellent word.

How do you feel about "gerontomorphism?"

:)

134 posted on 08/20/2003 2:12:31 PM PDT by forsnax5 (Is that gerontomorphism I see in the mirror there?)
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To: forsnax5
How do you feel about "gerontomorphism?"

My personal experiences with it so far are not good.

135 posted on 08/20/2003 2:13:13 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: MEGoody
[research into abiogenesis]

And do you have faith that man will some day answer that question?

Seems likely, though I have no way of guessing how soon. Remember, the genetic code was only discovered 50 years ago - give'em a little time.

136 posted on 08/20/2003 7:27:33 PM PDT by Virginia-American
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To: VadeRetro
You asked if Darwin was right or was he the luckiest charlatan of all time.

I don't think Darwin was a charlatan. He honestly believed what he was saying, and he discovered an important partial truth. His special theory of evolution was mostly right, though recent studies of those same finches might cast doubt on some of the finer points of that.

His general theory was an unsound extrapolation of data, and even evos like yourself now doubt classical darwinian evolution as a total explanation for biotic diversity. That is because the fossil record, while containing some things that could be considered to have a stream of transitionals, contains too many cases of sudden appearence of new forms. That is why Punctuated Equilibrium was advanced as an explanation.

So in conclusion, Darwin was neither totally right, nor that lucky, nor a charlatan. He was a good natrualist who discovered a parital truth and took it too far.
137 posted on 08/21/2003 7:22:41 PM PDT by Ahban
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To: VadeRetro
As far as "creationists" lumping the same fossils in different groups, I will make a deal with you. Don't try to pin me with the baggage from anyone claiming to be a creationist, especially YECs whose interpretations of the evidence I do not share, and I will not pin you with the baggage of all those historical characters who were big on evolution in their personal philosophy.

Since some of those people were the bloodiest tyrants in history, I am sure you can concede that this is a more than fair offer on my part. You are no more responsible for their positions than I am for that of Gish or some other YEC. OK?

I will defend MY positions, or that of a creationist in which I have some measure of trust, like Dr. Hugh Ross and F. Rana. They would say all of those critters were big-brained hominids, but it takes more than that to make a human. They would argue that the archeology and DNA results rule out all of those critters from being human.

Further, all who have read the book "Bones of Contention" know that evolutionists have the exact same problem. There are arguments over classification ("lumpers" and "splitters").
138 posted on 08/21/2003 7:35:37 PM PDT by Ahban
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To: Pharmboy
I would assume the result was due because wearing fur was not politically correct.

Red

139 posted on 08/21/2003 7:44:20 PM PDT by Conservative4Ever (life is but a dream...Sha Boom)
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140 posted on 04/21/2006 9:56:45 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Pharmboy

this is science. where are these suppositions?


141 posted on 10/30/2007 7:06:05 PM PDT by ktan87
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To: Pharmboy

Dogs are the result of selective breeding. Dogs and wolves freely interbreed even after many, many years of isolation and man’s best attempts to shape them into vastly different types of animals. I think you chose a very bad example.


142 posted on 10/30/2007 7:19:56 PM PDT by 3Lean
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To: blam

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Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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143 posted on 05/04/2009 1:10:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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