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US Supreme Court refuses to block removal of Ten Commandments
Sean Hannity Show ^ | 8-20-03 | Sean Hannity

Posted on 08/20/2003 1:10:06 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed

US Supreme Court refuses to block removal of Ten Ccommandments from Alabama courthouse.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: Alabama
KEYWORDS: aclu; roymoore; scotus; tencommandments
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To: Dog Gone
I am not advocating overthrowing the govt., but what I am saying is that it is hypocritical for you to scream rule of law after 50 years of judicial tyrrany when you would not have done so as a colonist under the British tyranny.
601 posted on 08/20/2003 6:20:36 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.collegemedianews.com *some interesting radio news reports here; check it out*)
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To: Dog Gone
It has everything to do with his refusal to obey court orders.

That's your weakest point. Moore didn't get a citation for drunk driving.

602 posted on 08/20/2003 6:21:50 PM PDT by cornelis
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Comment #603 Removed by Moderator

To: Right Wing Professor
Are the Ten Commandments as generic as "In God We Trust" or are they specific to a particular religion?

The Lord thy God it mentions says you can have no other gods before Him. Sounds like He's quite adamant that He's the deity and all others are imitations.

He's also not fond of those who make "graven images" and fail to honor the "sabbath". Atheists/agnostics aside, I can think of a couple religions that don't pass muster. Therefore, none of the government's business.

-Eric

604 posted on 08/20/2003 6:22:35 PM PDT by E Rocc ("Dry counties" are a Protestant version of "sharia")
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To: Dog Gone
Please remember that most of us would like the Second Amendment to be extended to the States via the 14th Amendment.

You don't have a grasp of inalienable rights and restrictions on the federal government. Self defense, speech, life and liberty are examples of natural rights endowed by the Creator to individuals. Prohibitions on the federal government from establishing a national religion are a restraint on the government, not individuals.

Regardless, the First Amendment already has, so arguing that it shouldn't have is like me arguing that that the Packers shouldn't have defeated my Cowboys in the Ice Bowl. It's kind of a done deal.

Cripes, what an attitude. The entire argument is about federal courts making law out of whole cloth and you just bowe your head and mumble "It's kind of a done deal". No wonder they can do whatever the hell they want.

By the way, should I be "embarassed" for posting the truth about the 14th Amendment and Judicial Activism? Or should you for accepting it with nary a word to be said about it?

605 posted on 08/20/2003 6:22:56 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
Or is the Constitution just a piece of toilet paper? ********************************** You may be on to something. But it must be some special toilet paper because it is on display at numerous Federal Monuments where folks go to see/worship the words of notorious Americans. It is, after all, a historic document. But, wait, so is the Ten Commandments. Oh well.
606 posted on 08/20/2003 6:23:38 PM PDT by petitfour
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To: rwfromkansas
I will read them. Incorporate away. I have a real nice link for you I will post in a bit.
607 posted on 08/20/2003 6:24:07 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: cornelis
....if you're advocating overthrow of the US Government just say so.....This must be your mantra....

Yep.

You could write a book on the virus of authoritarianism that's currently infecting FR.

Support Moore, and you're 'advocating the overthrow of the US government.' Oppose the Patriot Act or Gitmo, and you're 'advocating the overthrow of the US government.' They can't argue their case on any principled or Constitutional grounds so they try to censor dissent- on a website, which itself sprung from conservative dissent.

608 posted on 08/20/2003 6:25:22 PM PDT by Byron_the_Aussie (http://www.theinterviewwithgod.com/popup2.html)
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To: webwizard
Thank you for your post of the relevant Alabama Constitution.

It does not disallow anything Moore is doing.
609 posted on 08/20/2003 6:25:52 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.collegemedianews.com *some interesting radio news reports here; check it out*)
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To: Brian S
U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson has said he may fine the state about $5,000 a day if the monument is not removed by the end of the day Wednesday. He has said it would be permissible for the monument to be moved to a less public site, such as Moore's office.

Who is this almighty god of judgment, this Solomon among idiots, this king of kings? Thank you, your highness, Judge Myron Thompson, for permitting the monument to be moved to a less public site. Thank, you, lord.

Lemme guess - - this scumbag Thompson was appointed by Clinton?

610 posted on 08/20/2003 6:26:46 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: webwizard
..FINO? Can you translate that into something the rest of us can understand?...

Sure. Freeper, In Name Only.

The 'rest of us' understand you, perfectly.

611 posted on 08/20/2003 6:27:38 PM PDT by Byron_the_Aussie (http://www.theinterviewwithgod.com/popup2.html)
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To: Dog Gone
It has everything to do with his refusal to obey court orders

I happen to agree with your point. Its both christian and a principle that keeps our country united. But, i also respect those who take principled stands so long as they are willing to pay consquences and so long as they are not forcing consquences on others.

612 posted on 08/20/2003 6:29:08 PM PDT by VRWC_minion (Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and most are right)
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Comment #613 Removed by Moderator

To: jwalsh07
I thought you were educated but I was obviously wrong. I have "an attitude" for thinking that the First Amendment applied to the states.

I give up. You grab your pitchfork and get out into the streets.

614 posted on 08/20/2003 6:31:50 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Lancey Howard
He has said it would be permissible for the monument to be moved to a less public site, such as Moore's office.

This statement emanates from the penumbra of Neptune and springs forth from the new Fundamental Right not to be offended by any religious object crossing your vision.

It is found deep in the entrails of the fourteenth amendment which is like Mother Murphy's Stew.

615 posted on 08/20/2003 6:31:55 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: rwfromkansas
You know, I am getting a chill sense that things may be building to a tipping point. It isn't the Ten Commandments in an Alabama courthouse--that is the smallest part of it.
616 posted on 08/20/2003 6:32:40 PM PDT by Kevin Curry (Put Justice Janice Rogers Brown on the Supreme Court--NOW)
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To: Dog Gone
You grab your pitchfork

The Alabama folk are doing it MLK style.

617 posted on 08/20/2003 6:34:34 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: Dog Gone
..can you understand the difference? It's not a subtle difference...

Yes, I understand it, and I am dismayed by your fixation with it.

DG, wake up to yourself. America and its institutions are under attack by the liberals. This Moore business may be just a tiny firefight compared to the big war, but we don't need a Freeper of your stature lining up with the enemy just because of a few reservations about some legal minutiae. Moore's on solid ground legally, vis-a-vis the Alabama Constitution, and on even surer moral ground.

618 posted on 08/20/2003 6:35:32 PM PDT by Byron_the_Aussie (http://www.theinterviewwithgod.com/popup2.html)
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To: Dog Gone
I thought you were educated but I was obviously wrong.

You want to compare GRE scores or biceps? Stupid statements like this, the embarass thing and the phantom insults put you almost to the bottom of the ladder in my new ratings system.

Your problem is that you don't appear to be capable of independent thought. We are talikng about the "establishment clause" and the history of jurisprudence involving it and you simply don't think it matters that the Separation Canard was just that. A canard foisted on the public by judicial activism.

Such is life. When they find a "transcendent liberty" in the 14th Amendment for American citizens to be free of firearms, I assume you'll leave your pitchfork in the barn and make searing comments imploring all to respect the rule of law.

Whatever.

619 posted on 08/20/2003 6:38:05 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
His moral grounds are solid. I have no dispute with that. It's his tactics that scare me. You can't just discard America's legal system. It has to work or the whole system, not just the judicial branch, collapses.

This is not a small point.

620 posted on 08/20/2003 6:41:22 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone
..you can't just discard America's legal system. It has to work or the whole system, not just the judicial branch, collapses...

What in the name of Great Caesar's Salad are you on about, amigo?

Moore is standing up for the very foundations of your legal system. The Ten Commandments is the keystone of it. It is not Moore's monument which threatens that system- it is the Wacos, the Elians, the OJ Simpsons.

C'mon, mate. Get this into some kind of rational proportion- please?

621 posted on 08/20/2003 6:46:17 PM PDT by Byron_the_Aussie (http://www.theinterviewwithgod.com/popup2.html)
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To: webwizard
I interpret preference as pretty narrow. But, the only way to know for sure is to read what was considered when it was first passed.

I would hope I would stomach the Koran posting, but I can't guarantee that since I believe Islam is blasphemous. But, it would be hard to find an establishment clause violation in even that, nor a free exercise clause violation.
622 posted on 08/20/2003 6:47:01 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.collegemedianews.com *some interesting radio news reports here; check it out*)
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To: Southack
Right. The Liberty Bell is a religious display. Got any more?
623 posted on 08/20/2003 6:50:04 PM PDT by lugsoul
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To: jwalsh07
Look, you took statements of mine out of context to try to build your case. Put me at the bottom of your new ratings system. I think I might welcome that.

What Judge Moore is doing is serious stuff which challenges the entire role of the judiciary. Some may welcome that, but there's really no viable alternative. If the courts aren't the final arbiter, who is? The people? That's mob rule. If we're going to be nation governed by the Rule of Law, then there has to be a final word that we all agree is that final word.

For 200 some years, we've agreed that it will be the courts. Now you want something else to be the final rule, although you haven't articulated that yet that I've noticed.

624 posted on 08/20/2003 6:50:50 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: george wythe
There is no commandment to obey all secular authorites without distinction.

The most often quoted one Romans 13 says. It says to obey the "governing authorities". In this country the "authority" is the U.S. Constitution. All officals swear to protect and defend it.

So Christians are not bound to obey unconstitutional rulings or laws.

It goes without saying the Christians must "obey God rather than man". There is no contest there.
625 posted on 08/20/2003 6:51:57 PM PDT by rebel
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To: Dog Gone
You can't just discard America's legal system.

The ACLU did. It's time we fought back.

626 posted on 08/20/2003 6:52:55 PM PDT by Tribune7 (Judge Moore for the Supreme Court)
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One more indication that the battle is raging behind the scenes (spiritually and naturally) for control of the USSC ... whoever controls the nominations will control an enormous part of this country, far greater than one can fathom, for decades to come.

There is a rallying cry for all who intercede for America. The USSC and our nation's Senate, and the presidency, need massive amounts of prayer.

To the victor go the spoils. These things are worth fighting for.
627 posted on 08/20/2003 6:53:43 PM PDT by GretchenEE
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To: Dog Gone
For 200 some years

It was the Roman days, 200 BC; and the Greek days, 600 BC, that woke the mob. Read Solzhenitsyn on how a law matures.

628 posted on 08/20/2003 6:55:14 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: rebel
Nice defense.
629 posted on 08/20/2003 6:55:51 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.collegemedianews.com *some interesting radio news reports here; check it out*)
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To: Labyrinthos
The issue has nothing to do with monuments. The issue is whether a judge can use his public office to promote his particular religious views.
If this is the case it's easy - he can, as long as he does not force others into said views. There is not text that claims otherwise. Mule interpretations don't count!
630 posted on 08/20/2003 6:55:54 PM PDT by singsong (Demoralization does not kill people, it kills civilizations.)
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To: lugsoul
Right. The Liberty Bell is a religious display.

If Judge Moore had made bell inscribed with something from Leviticus, would you object?

631 posted on 08/20/2003 6:56:02 PM PDT by Tribune7 (Judge Moore for the Supreme Court)
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
You, too, are not understanding my argument. I'm not saying that Moore is wrong for what he wants to do. I'm saying that he is wrong for defying the court order.

Maybe it's necessary to be an attorney to understand the vast difference between those two arguments. If so, I apologize for not being able to articulate this in terms that are understandable. But they are very real.

632 posted on 08/20/2003 6:56:23 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone
Can you understand the difference? It's not a subtle difference.

Pearls before swine, DG... it's like cows watching a plane go by overhead.

633 posted on 08/20/2003 7:00:49 PM PDT by SedVictaCatoni (The only difference between Judge Moore and Mullah Omar is one of specifics.)
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To: Dog Gone
Well, the SCOTUS GAVE ITSELF the role of final say on things in M. v. Madison. I don't know what the alternative would be, as we need the courts to check the legislature and executive branch.

At the same time, the courts have much more power than they originally had.

634 posted on 08/20/2003 7:01:45 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Men...stumble over the truth, but most...pick themselves up...as if nothing had happened."Churchill)
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To: tomahawk
very well said!
635 posted on 08/20/2003 7:01:55 PM PDT by MatthewViti
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To: Dog Gone
Look, you took statements of mine out of context to try to build your case. Put me at the bottom of your new ratings system.

I don't as a rule take statements out of context. You show me where I did and if I think I was out of line, I'll apologise.

I think I might welcome that.

Lighten up Dog. I don't keep lists and I don't have a ratings system. Ladders are plentiful though.

What Judge Moore is doing is serious stuff which challenges the entire role of the judiciary. Some may welcome that, but there's really no viable alternative.

Judge Moore is exercising his rights as an American citizen and a jurist in the great tradition of our country. He and his fellow travelers are doing it peacefully and with conviction. What better example for American youth?

If the courts aren't the final arbiter, who is? The people? That's mob rule. If we're going to be nation governed by the Rule of Law, then there has to be a final word that we all agree is that final word.

The final arbiter is the Congress of the Unites States of America elcted by the citizens of same. It's all in the COnstitution. All we need do is honor it the way it is written or amend it. Either is fine with me.

For 200 some years, we've agreed that it will be the courts. Now you want something else to be the final rule, although you haven't articulated that yet that I've noticed.

For that same 200 years voluntary prayer in school and the posting of the decalogue were Constitutional. Only in the past 50 years have they somehow morphed into UnConstitutional. To ignore that is fooly, no?

As for articulating my thoughts on rneegade courts, I've been doing it here for quite some time now. Congress should slap them down via the purse or laws proscribing the courts from making laws or they should simply be impeached.

All Constitutional, all within the rule of law.

636 posted on 08/20/2003 7:02:23 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: SedVictaCatoni
Your tagline shows where you stand in regards to your religious bigotry and speaks volumes about your position onthis matter...
637 posted on 08/20/2003 7:03:03 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Men...stumble over the truth, but most...pick themselves up...as if nothing had happened."Churchill)
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To: SedVictaCatoni
I'm just getting beat up on this thread by my friends like I'm a baby seal on a Canadian ice shelf.

I'm not having much fun.

638 posted on 08/20/2003 7:03:12 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone
As for judicial review, this is a very interesting quote:

"The opinion which gives to the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what not [Marbury v. Madison], not only for themselves in their own sphere of action, but for the legislative and executive also in their spheres, would make the judiciary a despotic branch." Thomas Jefferson

639 posted on 08/20/2003 7:04:10 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Men...stumble over the truth, but most...pick themselves up...as if nothing had happened."Churchill)
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To: sport
that would be "art"
640 posted on 08/20/2003 7:05:54 PM PDT by MatthewViti
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To: Dog Gone
If we're going to be nation governed by the Rule of Law, then there has to be a final word that we all agree is that final word.

This only works if the ones making the final decision are fulfilling their obligations to interpret the law rather than make it. If they do not fulfill their obligations, I do not feel any obligation to fulfill my end of the deal.
641 posted on 08/20/2003 7:06:13 PM PDT by microgood (They will all die......most of them.)
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To: Dog Gone
If you defy the courts and get away with it, our whole constitutional system breaks down.

Give me a break. No it does not. It didn't break down when the courts were defied by our forefathers before and it isn't going to now. The courts have no legislative power and they are legislating from the bench. The system is broken as is. What are you doing about it?! Where are the petitions for Impeachment due to violation of the separation of powers? If Congress ruled tomorrow that blacks aren't due the rights of whites, would you abide by such a proclamation and or law? Would you lick your wounds and work the system? I wouldn't. I'd stand up to it because it's wrong. If you haven't the moral fiber or courage to stand up to it, then you deal with your cowardice but don't lecture me about playing the system.

I'm not advocating revolution. If one is required I think those capable of doing so will invoke the declaration and stand on it. But Luther didn't secure his rights as a Black man in America by saying please. He got them by pointing to the constitution and saying NOW! Just as our forefathers did. This isn't something that happened over night - it's taken years of liberal judges legislating from the bench to get us to this point and it's gone unchallenged. You tell me how the system has worked to fix it when it just continues getting worse. At some point people have to stand up and say no more. The system be damned. If the system is broke it doesn't get fixed by playing it. You're approach is to keep sticking quarters into the broken coke machine hoping that a cold can will drop when it didn't for the past 10 bucks you put in. Fix the coke machine first, then put the money in. Think!

642 posted on 08/20/2003 7:06:31 PM PDT by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
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To: Dog Gone
I don't know if you want him as a friend. Check his tagline.
643 posted on 08/20/2003 7:06:54 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Men...stumble over the truth, but most...pick themselves up...as if nothing had happened."Churchill)
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To: Imal
There is no basis in the U.S. Constitution for the edicts of federal judges trying to remove religious symbols from public property. The "separation of church and state" doctrine is formed from an unsupported and overly broad application of the First and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution to apply federal jurisdiction to all levels of government. Such an interpretation is clearly invalid and itself stands in clear violation of the Tenth Amendment, thus rendering this doctrine unenforceable under law.

Do you honestly believe Democrats or Republicans care about the Tenth Amendment anymore? Especially at the national level, considering to admit the powers under the Tenth would take the power out of their precious greedy hands and put it back where it was meant to be. In the state legislatures

644 posted on 08/20/2003 7:08:17 PM PDT by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: rwfromkansas
I don't know if you want him as a friend. Check his tagline.

Yes. My tagline pledges defiance to theocrats, both Judge Moore and the Taliban alike, who want to proclaim that one religion is the Official Truth. As a Christian, I despise the persecution of radical Islam, and I despise the haughty arrogance and brazen constitutional defiance of radical Judge Moore.

645 posted on 08/20/2003 7:10:00 PM PDT by SedVictaCatoni (The only difference between Judge Moore and Mullah Omar is one of specifics.)
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To: OldFriend
Your true colors show. It's all about Bush and the other RINOS huh? Don't throw morality out the window for the sake of man. We'll all have to answer to God someday, not any man.
646 posted on 08/20/2003 7:13:25 PM PDT by MatthewViti
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To: Dog Gone
I thought you were educated but I was obviously wrong. I have "an attitude" for thinking that the First Amendment applied to the states.

Which law has Congress made, establishing a religion, that has caused the Ten Commandments display to be placed in the rotunda of the Alabama Supreme Court?

647 posted on 08/20/2003 7:14:16 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: SedVictaCatoni
Were Jefferson/Madison tyrants for pushing for a bill to punish sabbath breakers on Virginia, on the same day the Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom was either passed or introduced (can't remember which)?

I am not saying we should do that today, but my goodness. WAKE UP!!!! Posting some Ten Commandments up is nothing even remotely close to what has been done in our history by the very people who pushed for and passed the First Amendment.

648 posted on 08/20/2003 7:14:50 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Men...stumble over the truth, but most...pick themselves up...as if nothing had happened."Churchill)
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To: Dog Gone
The First Amendment does not apply to the states, and even if it did, posting the 10 Commandments is not remotely close to an esablishment of religion as understood in the records of debate on the First Amendment's passage. You can read those records in the Annals of Congress.
649 posted on 08/20/2003 7:16:29 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Men...stumble over the truth, but most...pick themselves up...as if nothing had happened."Churchill)
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To: KCmark
p.s. ". . .and their place in 'America's Moral history' so to speak; and that history unfolding. . ."

Let me just add to that how sick I am of Liberals using the delete key on our history; our language (PC);our traditions;social and religious and cultural.

This is just one more 'hit'. . .

650 posted on 08/20/2003 7:18:22 PM PDT by cricket
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