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Jobless push for visa reform (Bills in congress to fight L1 abuse)
http://www.computerworld.com/careertopics/careers/story/0,10801,83888,00.html ^ | Patrick Thibodeau

Posted on 08/21/2003 1:17:48 PM PDT by Mick2000

AUGUST 11, 2003 ( COMPUTERWORLD ) - WASHINGTON -- The controversial L-1 and H-1B visas are under assault in Congress, in large part because of the activism of a group of laid-off Connecticut IT workers. Of the five bills that have been introduced this year to reform the two visa programs, three were written by Connecticut lawmakers.

"We've heard quite a bit from constituents in our district concerned about losing their jobs," said Lesley Sillaman, a spokeswoman for Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D-Conn.), who is seeking restrictions on L-1 visa use.

The group DeLauro has been working with, the Organization for the Rights of American Workers (TORAW) in Meriden, Conn., was formed less than a year ago. One of the group's founders, James Pace, a laid-off IT consultant, learned the ropes of activism in the early 1970s, when he fought the state's motorcycle helmet law. "It all comes down to backyard politics," said Pace.

Laid-off IT consultant James Pace is a leader in TORAW’s fight for L-1 and H-1B visa reform. Among other activities, TORAW attended an open forum meeting that Rep. Nancy Johnson held in her Connecticut district several months ago. Six TORAW members in the audience peppered Johnson with questions about the visa programs. "We took over the whole meeting," said Pace. Subsequent local newspaper coverage focused on offshore outsourcing.

On July 28, Johnson, a Republican, joined Democratic Sen. Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut in sponsoring the USA Jobs Protection Act to reform the visa laws.

(Excerpt) Read more at computerworld.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Front Page News
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Best news of seen in awhile, amazing that six people could make such a difference and help get this started.
1 posted on 08/21/2003 1:17:48 PM PDT by Mick2000
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To: Mick2000
This is a cause I think that many of us should support.
2 posted on 08/21/2003 1:24:16 PM PDT by BushCountry (To the last, I will grapple with Democrats. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at Liberals.)
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To: Mick2000
Too bad we have to rely on these commies to fix this problem.
3 posted on 08/21/2003 1:26:11 PM PDT by Zathras
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To: Mick2000
Always a good idea for a government to alienate people with IQs at least two standard deviations above the average Democratic voter.
4 posted on 08/21/2003 1:47:45 PM PDT by junta (Xenophobia a perfectly reasonable response to the feckless stupidity of globalism.)
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To: All
Ever considered the possibility that more government restriction will lead more employers to move those ops offshore?
5 posted on 08/21/2003 1:54:12 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: Mick2000
Bush could lose the election to the Rats on this issue.

He better wake da hell up.
6 posted on 08/21/2003 1:54:43 PM PDT by adam_az (.)
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To: adam_az
you are correct.
7 posted on 08/21/2003 1:56:55 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Mick2000
No visa elimination, so Patriot Act.
8 posted on 08/21/2003 1:57:38 PM PDT by mabelkitty
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To: Mick2000
Chris Dodd and Rosa DeLauro are with you. How revealing.
9 posted on 08/21/2003 2:05:51 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: anniegetyourgun
Agreed, but then I think it becomes a matter of removing the disparity in our costs of labor, primarily between our country and India and China. With India, we have to bring down their tariffs (second highest in the world) and with China, I'm pretty sure there are tariffs to contend with as well as the primary driver which is that the yuan is pegged to our dollar at a 8.3 to 1 ratio making their costs 8 times as cheap as ours.

We need (and the Bush Administration is currently working on this but it's an uphill battle) to get that disparity to be lessened significantly over the next couple years so that the playing field will even out more.
10 posted on 08/21/2003 2:09:36 PM PDT by Mick2000
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To: harpseal
ping
11 posted on 08/21/2003 2:10:45 PM PDT by LibertyAndJusticeForAll
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To: ArneFufkin
So is Johnson (a Republican).
12 posted on 08/21/2003 2:11:13 PM PDT by Mick2000
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To: Mick2000
This should pass,BUT IT NEVER WILL!
13 posted on 08/21/2003 2:14:00 PM PDT by INSENSITIVE GUY
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To: Mick2000
Ah, yes, that bastion of Conservatism, Nancy Johnson. I believe she'd be known round here parts as a "RINO".

You people are Democrats, go to them, they are nannies who are here to protect you and satisfy your every whorish need.

14 posted on 08/21/2003 2:18:19 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: Mick2000
Read later.
15 posted on 08/21/2003 2:20:25 PM PDT by EagleMamaMT
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To: ArneFufkin
So, what would you do? The L-1 (government legislation if I remember) is currently uncapped. What would you do? Just let as many guest workers into our country as we can get in here? Reforming this visa is actually reducing the number of guest workers in this country, reducing the impact of this legislation. I thought that was what Conservatives were for, less government intervention.

What does that say about you?
16 posted on 08/21/2003 2:22:36 PM PDT by Mick2000
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To: ArneFufkin
The idea that this is a liberal issue won't wash. At this link is a nice picture of Hillary:
TCS press release; March 10, 2003
Senator Hillary Clinton shows her support for the offshoring, the H-1B and L-1 visa.
http://www.tcs.com/0_media_room/releases/200303mar/20030310_buffalo.htm
Furthermore, there is a growing list of Conservative Republicans trying to stop the abuse of these visa programs. And, whenever a foreign guest worker is hired over a qualified unemployed American, it is abuse.
17 posted on 08/21/2003 2:24:46 PM PDT by LibertyAndJusticeForAll
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To: ArneFufkin
Chris Dodd and Rosa DeLauro are with you. How revealing.

What's that saying about Bush where a lot of people on FR support the other party's moves? Yeah I know: they'll all commie symps and DUhers at heart.
18 posted on 08/21/2003 2:25:33 PM PDT by lelio
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To: Mick2000
I'm a conservative. I'm an American. I have skills, education and an innovative mandate that cannot be matched by some schlump from a Third World country. I have pride, dignity and an obligation to produce. I don't cry like a toddler when life's challenges get thrown in my face.
19 posted on 08/21/2003 2:25:56 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: ArneFufkin
When American laws are being broken by companies hiring visa workers over qualified Americans, or hiring visa workers due to loopholes in a law (in the case of the L1), then it is the obligation of the government to enforce or modifiy those laws. Just as it is the obligation of the citizens to make the government aware of the problems. Which is what we are doing.
20 posted on 08/21/2003 2:30:05 PM PDT by LibertyAndJusticeForAll
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To: ArneFufkin
Do you have reasoning skills?

Answer the question then, show me your conservative tendencies, what's the cap on L-1's then?
21 posted on 08/21/2003 2:31:36 PM PDT by Mick2000
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To: Mick2000
Answer what question?

I don't give a crap about L-1 or H-1 caps. I want to hire the best personnel for my company. You guys can't cut it. Go join AFSCME, get a gubbnmint job. Vote for Democrats. Get off FR.

22 posted on 08/21/2003 2:35:01 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: Mick2000
China is a mercantilist state so no amount of jawboning is going to cause them to lower their tariffs. This isn't about money. This is about creating the technological base with which they can engage the US in an arms race a generation from now and win. To lay the economic groundwork to succeed where the Soviet Union failed.

Equalizing the American standard of living downwards is something Americans flatly will not accept.
23 posted on 08/21/2003 2:40:10 PM PDT by Tokhtamish
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To: ArneFufkin
I want to hire the best personnel for my company.

So you're fine with hiring illegal immigrants?
24 posted on 08/21/2003 2:42:08 PM PDT by lelio
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To: ArneFufkin
"I don't give a crap about L-1 or H-1 caps. I want to hire the best personnel for my company. You guys can't cut it. Go join AFSCME, get a gubbnmint job. Vote for Democrats. Get off FR."

And by "best" you mean the cheapest, whether it is LEGAL or NOT.
Maybe YOU and others like you that don't want to OBEY THE LAW should LEAVE for those wonderful countries with all that cheap labor you are so eager to hire. They don't have so many annoying LAWS to obey.
25 posted on 08/21/2003 2:42:18 PM PDT by LibertyAndJusticeForAll
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To: ArneFufkin
Someone so "conservative" that he won't accept any help he has to to save his future and the futures of his children is an idiot.

Your responsibility as a provider comes before politics.
26 posted on 08/21/2003 2:43:01 PM PDT by Tokhtamish
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To: ArneFufkin
I'm confused then, you don't give a crap about L-1 or H-1 caps, but somehow your spending your time in a forum that is discussing the L1? That makes no sense.


27 posted on 08/21/2003 2:45:21 PM PDT by Mick2000
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To: ArneFufkin
Go join AFSCME, get a gubbnmint job. Vote for Democrats. Get off FR.

What's the rush? You are going to see plenty of that in 2004. The incumbent with the screwed up economy is in DC. His opponents can stake out what ever position pulls in the most support and slaughter him.
28 posted on 08/21/2003 2:45:57 PM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: ArneFufkin
I'm a conservative. I'm an American. I have skills, education and an innovative mandate that cannot be matched by some schlump from a Third World country. I have pride, dignity and an obligation to produce. I don't cry like a toddler when life's challenges get thrown in my face.

Actually, you are a posturing fool who has absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume that he "cannot be matched by some schlump from a Third World country". There is no reason of any sort to assume that you are smarter than anyone and everyone in a "Third World country".

29 posted on 08/21/2003 2:46:49 PM PDT by Tokhtamish
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To: ARCADIA
The truth about you third party types is being revealed - you're all closet nanny-state entitilement monkeys that the Democrat Party kicked out because you are too white, male, Christian and obnoxious. Well, the GOP doesn't want you either. So, you've swarmed Free Republic and made this your wailing wall. Congrats.
30 posted on 08/21/2003 2:50:28 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: Tokhtamish
I'm not worried about an influx of L-1, H-1B or any other imported labor from India, Mexico, Canada or China, you are. I'm not worried about having my job outsourced to a Third World individual, you are. The people smarter than me I want working for, or with, me. You don't. You're not a conservative, you're an AFL-CIO Gephart goon.
31 posted on 08/21/2003 2:54:50 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: Mick2000
I'm here to point out that there is nothing Conservative about your efforts. Just selfishness.
32 posted on 08/21/2003 2:59:26 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: ArneFufkin
My God, you are in a really intense state of panicky denial about your career prospects, aren't you ? I can smell an overcompensated inferiority complex a mile away.

It's all right if you're afraid, ArneFufkin. You have excellent reason to be.

33 posted on 08/21/2003 3:00:45 PM PDT by Tokhtamish
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To: clamper1797; sarcasm; BrooklynGOP; A. Pole; Zorrito; GiovannaNicoletta; Caipirabob; Paul Ross; ...
ping

On or off let me know
34 posted on 08/21/2003 3:01:29 PM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: ArneFufkin
You're name calling and bragging about yourself. Its not only boring, it takes away from any point you actually want to make that supports your stance.
35 posted on 08/21/2003 3:01:56 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: harpseal
The plan

In no particular order of importance.

1. Get rid of government subsidies for offshore investment of US companies. OPIC is the first such program which should go but support of World Bank programs that subsidize the outflow of Capital would be another.

2. Use tariffs on those nations which are engaged in unfair trade practices such as currency manipulation (China and India for example), those nations which refuse to open their markets to US products (China for example with its 50% tariffs on US consumer goods and non tariff barriers), those nations that subsidize competition to American Industry (airbus for example) and those nations which have slave conditions for their workers.

3. Use tariffs and other means to prevent the relocation of jobs offshore that are essential to the national defense. If necessary take control of the company seeking to export vital technology or industry by means of eminent domain (No I do not like this last option and I will only defend its use as an absolute last resort like say in the case of rare earth magnets essential to smart bomb technology). Provide a hardened, widely distributed infrastructure to supply all that is needed for our military units and civil defense that can be continued to be deployed in the event of any military attack.

4. An immediate end to guest worker programs. If people wish to come to the USA to work and make a life let them immigrate according to the rules.

5 Provide economic development zones where the corporate income tax is zero for operations within these zones. In order to operate in this zone a company must agree to only purchase American components if available and employ only American citizens or legal immigrants in these operations. These economic development zones shall be eventually be expanded to include every bit of every state once the benefits are shown I would like them to be totally implemented immediately but I realize4 that may be overreaching.

6. Scale back unnecessary regulation including the tort system. Institute a cap on punitive damages, limits on class action suits, and limits on liability to the actual percentage of liability with no plaintiff able to collect if said plaintiff was involved in the commission of a felony at the time of the alleged tort or was more than 49% negligent in the alleged tort. Note that the loser in a frivolous lawsuit shall pay the attorney fees of the winner. There are many other regulatory structures that also need to be included that need to be included such as repealing the Family leave mandate, getting rid of OSHA etc.

7. Increase the domestic content in purchases by the Department of defense and give absolute preference in non-domestic content to proven allies of the USA over say the French or Germans. The only reason any content for DOD purchase may come from non US allies is that content is not available elsewhere and is essential.

8. Do not allow expense involved in moving operations overseas to be included in business expenses under the IRS code.

9. Prosecute for perjury anyone who has made a false statement in order to employ an H1B or L1 visa worker. I will be lenient on the actual perjurer if he/she was ordered to make this false statement and he/she provides testimony to aid in the conviction of the person ordering the perjury. Just because a person is a CEO does not give them a pass on criminal behavior.

10. Prosecute anyone who orders the transfer of vital defense technology or funds a R&D project that could be of use to our military overseas except to strong allies of the USA. Make the necessary enhancements to our espionage laws so that continued support or funding of any R&D in a nation whose government has threatened the USA is guilty of espionage. The UK and Australia come to mind as meeting these criteria for being eligible for transfer of technology first. There will be other nations and a gradation of what can be transferred to which specific nation. Under no circumstances may technology be transferred to any nation whose government has threatened the USA within five years without a complete change of government or specific exemption from Congress and the administration.

11. Deport all illegal aliens immediately and take measures that prevent the entry of any more illegal aliens. Fine all companies knowingly employing illegal aliens Criminal sanctions should be imposed on anyone helping an illegal alien stay in the USA in violation of our laws.

12. Decrease the punishing levels of taxation on companies and eliminate the double taxation on corporate dividends. See effects of item 5 for how minimal this will be if item 5 covers the entire USA. Eliminate all IRS provisions that inhibit free use of independent contractors by businesses for example section 1706.

13. Eliminate the minimum wage so that the worker can be paid based on productivity. Overtime compensation will remain the same but instead of 150% of the "wage" the worker would receive 150% of the production pay. If one through 13 are enacted # 14 becomes an irrelevancy as no one will be working for that low a wage.

Now since I started posting this plan another idea has come up that in my opinion is a very good policy that stands on its own. Now I give credit to Jim Gibson and Freeper Ed_in_NJ for coming up with the idea, separately to the best of my knowledge. However I can be corrected on that. The tariff phrasing is from Jim Gibson.

“I suggest that the US Customs Department charge a $1,000-per-container inspection fee on every container entering the United States. This fee would be used to completely fund the cost of inspections. If we assumed that a four-man team could fully inspect two containers a day or about 500 per year, it would require 48,000 inspectors. Allowing for at least 2,000 support personnel, we would need at least 50,000 workers. Because these workers would require high intelligence and skill levels they should earn at least $30 per hour. At 40-hour weeks plus benefits, I estimate the cost per worker to be over $75,000 per year, all paid by the foreign manufacturers. Even so, this would still leave over $2.25 billion to cover all other costs. Any revenue not used would be used to compensate American workers displaced by foreign imports. “

I urge and encourage everyone who agrees with this plan and or the terror tariff idea to communicate this to every politician you can think of.

36 posted on 08/21/2003 3:02:04 PM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Tokhtamish
Panicky denial? Okay pal.
37 posted on 08/21/2003 3:05:21 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: hedgetrimmer
Good points, wait oh-oh, some guy from New Dehli just took your job.
38 posted on 08/21/2003 3:09:11 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: LibertyAndJusticeForAll
Funny, I just received my September, 2003 copy of Business 2.0, and the Cover says "Now Hiring: A Job Boom is Coming". Here are the 10 Fastest Growing Occupations through 2010 (source:Bureau of Labor Statistics):

1. Software Engineer, Applicaitons
2. Support Specialist
3. Systems Software Engineer
4. Network and Systems Administratior
5. Netowrk Systems and Data Communications Analyst
6. Desktop Publisher
7. Database Administrator
8. Personal and Home Halth Care Aide
9. Systems Analyst
10. Medical Assistant.

Too bad y'all have your heads up your butts.

39 posted on 08/21/2003 3:36:40 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: ArneFufkin
some guy from New Dehli just took your job

Huh?
40 posted on 08/21/2003 3:45:42 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: ArneFufkin
That is funny, especially when the data is either two years old or else nothings changed in the past two years.

http://www.bls.gov/emp/emptab3.htm

Notice any similarities?
41 posted on 08/21/2003 3:48:25 PM PDT by Mick2000
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To: Mick2000
So, what are the new numbers?
42 posted on 08/21/2003 3:56:13 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: ArneFufkin
I'm a conservative. I'm an American. I have skills, education and an innovative mandate that cannot be matched by some schlump from a Third World country. I have pride, dignity and an obligation to produce. I don't cry like a toddler when life's challenges get thrown in my face.

Oh, so you're another government employee with a secure income and zero exposure to the real world.

43 posted on 08/21/2003 4:03:06 PM PDT by meadsjn
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To: ArneFufkin
Here's one:

"Now, all kinds of knowledge work can be done almost anywhere. "You will see an explosion of work going overseas," says Forrester Research Inc. analyst John C. McCarthy. He goes so far as to predict at least 3.3 million white-collar jobs and $136 billion in wages will shift from the U.S. to low-cost countries by 2015."

And, if you add up the BLS estimates for jobs created from 2001 through 2010,you get 3.45 million jobs created. If these estimates, are right, doesn't seem like much growth will be taking place, if any, at all.
44 posted on 08/21/2003 4:05:01 PM PDT by Mick2000
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To: Mick2000
Yes, but have you been to Shanghai recently? You can just feel the excitement, the building is reminiscent of America in the 1950's, you can smell the progress in the air...

(Do I sound really worldly, important and international yet?)

45 posted on 08/21/2003 4:11:11 PM PDT by riri
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To: Mick2000
Don't worry Mick, Rosa DeLauro will take you to her bosom and protect you from those scary, swarthy foreigners.
46 posted on 08/21/2003 4:12:56 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: riri
I've been to Beijing. It is a very impressive, modern place, though I'm sure it pales with everything that's happening in Shanghai and Hong Kong.
47 posted on 08/21/2003 4:16:35 PM PDT by Mick2000
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To: ArneFufkin
I read the same article as you did. I did not find the article convincing. The article alleges that older workers will retire right on schedule, regardless of the recent shrinking of their 401K plans.

That is a big and UNPROVEN assumption.

48 posted on 08/21/2003 4:17:50 PM PDT by Mini-14
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To: ArneFufkin
I'm not scared of them in fact I know quite a few of them. 75% of the people I work with are H1b's and most of them are some of the sharpest people I've met. I definitely respect them.

Which also is why I'm so concerned. The average American worker can not and should not be expected to compete (through overseas outsourcing) with someone making 1/2 their salary or thereabouts (in the case of L-1's) or 1/8th to 1/10th their salary in the case of outsourcing it doesn't make sense.
49 posted on 08/21/2003 4:25:24 PM PDT by Mick2000
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To: lelio
So you're fine with hiring illegal immigrants?

Hey, don't feed the trolls! I've learned that in the last few days. Myself, I'll do what I can to keep jobs in America and to hopefully stop the L1 and H1B programs by getting the word out. "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"

These folks are lost causes and the only way they will see the light is if they lose their jobs themselves. If I may use religion for a sec, I do take solace in what Jesus said as He was on The Cross, "forgive them Father, they do not understand." Hey to some of these people, we may look like kooks and things like that but many times in history, the smartest man in town is often the village idiot or the town drunk. I'm not saying none of us are like that per se, but many times we are branded as such. This weekend, I'll get to work writing my Congresscritters and even President Bush using Harpseal's program as a template.
50 posted on 08/21/2003 4:47:21 PM PDT by Nowhere Man ("Laws are the spider webs through which the big bugs fly past and the little ones get caught.")
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