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Why Liberals Should Oppose Illegal Immigration
foxnews ^ | August 21, 2003 | Matt Hayes

Posted on 08/21/2003 6:24:39 PM PDT by VU4G10

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:37:00 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Liberals have historically been the voice of those who have no voice, fighting for the rights of those on the lowest rungs of the economic ladder.

They have campaigned relentlessly against cuts in AFDC (search), Medicaid (search) and Medicare (search). Even now, the expansion of Medicare to include prescription drugs has become a crusade of liberal advocacy groups. To hear Robert Reich (search), former President Clinton's first Secretary of Labor, one would think that the primary duty of a president is to create jobs, something that a substantial number of economists believe is not even possible under normal economic conditions.


(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: american; illegal; immigration; workerliberals

1 posted on 08/21/2003 6:24:39 PM PDT by VU4G10
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: Sabertooth; HiJinx; harpseal; Tancredo Fan
Ping.

Thought y'all might like to ping your lists on this one. The most amazing thing I have seen in the last 30 years is the complete change in position on immigration by the unions, "environmentalists", and other previously anti-mass immigration groups (maybe they're more accurately defined now as "mass hypocrisy groups").

Matt Hayes - who has been writing outstanding articles on Fox about immigration - has done a good job of encapsulating that here.

3 posted on 08/21/2003 7:03:55 PM PDT by Regulator
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To: VU4G10
In what is probably a first in our history, members of the right and left have a common interest in encouraging illegal immigration and imported labor

A toxic, evil coalition.

4 posted on 08/21/2003 7:04:54 PM PDT by Regulator
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Free the USA; Libertarianize the GOP; madfly; Carry_Okie; FITZ; Spiff; Tancredo Fan; ...
Bump-Ping!!!
The Border List TM

FReepmail me to be removed...!

6 posted on 08/21/2003 7:55:54 PM PDT by HiJinx (The Right person, in the Right Place, at the Right time...to do His work)
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To: Regulator; clamper1797; sarcasm; BrooklynGOP; A. Pole; Zorrito; GiovannaNicoletta; Caipirabob; ...
The illegal immigration aspect of harm to the economy is covered here. there is a relationshp to teh economy but this one is not as clear and direct and narrowly focused as usuual. So iguess this is a ping with sonme reservations

On or off this list let me know
7 posted on 08/21/2003 8:02:25 PM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Regulator
The plan to fix the economy also relates to immigration issues.


In no particular order of importance.

1. Get rid of government subsidies for offshore investment of US companies. OPIC is the first such program which should go but support of World Bank programs that subsidize the outflow of Capital would be another.

2. Use tariffs on those nations which are engaged in unfair trade practices such as currency manipulation (China and India for example), those nations which refuse to open their markets to US products (China for example with its 50% tariffs on US consumer goods and non tariff barriers), those nations that subsidize competition to American Industry (airbus for example) and those nations which have slave conditions for their workers.

3. Use tariffs and other means to prevent the relocation of jobs offshore that are essential to the national defense. If necessary take control of the company seeking to export vital technology or industry by means of eminent domain (No I do not like this last option and I will only defend its use as an absolute last resort like say in the case of rare earth magnets essential to smart bomb technology). Provide a hardened, widely distributed infrastructure to supply all that is needed for our military units and civil defense that can be continued to be deployed in the event of any military attack.

4. An immediate end to guest worker programs. If people wish to come to the USA to work and make a life let them immigrate according to the rules.

5 Provide economic development zones where the corporate income tax is zero for operations within these zones. In order to operate in this zone a company must agree to only purchase American components if available and employ only American citizens or legal immigrants in these operations. These economic development zones shall be eventually be expanded to include every bit of every state once the benefits are shown I would like them to be totally implemented immediately but I realize4 that may be overreaching.

6. Scale back unnecessary regulation including the tort system. Institute a cap on punitive damages, limits on class action suits, and limits on liability to the actual percentage of liability with no plaintiff able to collect if said plaintiff was involved in the commission of a felony at the time of the alleged tort or was more than 49% negligent in the alleged tort. Note that the loser in a frivolous lawsuit shall pay the attorney fees of the winner. There are many other regulatory structures that also need to be included that need to be included such as repealing the Family leave mandate, getting rid of OSHA etc.

7. Increase the domestic content in purchases by the Department of defense and give absolute preference in non-domestic content to proven allies of the USA over say the French or Germans. The only reason any content for DOD purchase may come from non US allies is that content is not available elsewhere and is essential.

8. Do not allow expense involved in moving operations overseas to be included in business expenses under the IRS code.

9. Prosecute for perjury anyone who has made a false statement in order to employ an H1B or L1 visa worker. I will be lenient on the actual perjurer if he/she was ordered to make this false statement and he/she provides testimony to aid in the conviction of the person ordering the perjury. Just because a person is a CEO does not give them a pass on criminal behavior.

10. Prosecute anyone who orders the transfer of vital defense technology or funds a R&D project that could be of use to our military overseas except to strong allies of the USA. Make the necessary enhancements to our espionage laws so that continued support or funding of any R&D in a nation whose government has threatened the USA is guilty of espionage. The UK and Australia come to mind as meeting these criteria for being eligible for transfer of technology first. There will be other nations and a gradation of what can be transferred to which specific nation. Under no circumstances may technology be transferred to any nation whose government has threatened the USA within five years without a complete change of government or specific exemption from Congress and the administration.

11. Deport all illegal aliens immediately and take measures that prevent the entry of any more illegal aliens. Fine all companies knowingly employing illegal aliens Criminal sanctions should be imposed on anyone helping an illegal alien stay in the USA in violation of our laws.

12. Decrease the punishing levels of taxation on companies and eliminate the double taxation on corporate dividends. See effects of item 5 for how minimal this will be if item 5 covers the entire USA. Eliminate all IRS provisions that inhibit free use of independent contractors by businesses for example section 1706.

13. Eliminate the minimum wage so that the worker can be paid based on productivity. Overtime compensation will remain the same but instead of 150% of the "wage" the worker would receive 150% of the production pay. If one through 13 are enacted # 14 becomes an irrelevancy as no one will be working for that low a wage.

Now since I started posting this plan another idea has come up that in my opinion is a very good policy that stands on its own. Now I give credit to Jim Gibson and Freeper Ed_in_NJ for coming up with the idea, separately to the best of my knowledge. However I can be corrected on that. The tariff phrasing is from Jim Gibson.

“I suggest that the US Customs Department charge a $1,000-per-container inspection fee on every container entering the United States. This fee would be used to completely fund the cost of inspections. If we assumed that a four-man team could fully inspect two containers a day or about 500 per year, it would require 48,000 inspectors. Allowing for at least 2,000 support personnel, we would need at least 50,000 workers. Because these workers would require high intelligence and skill levels they should earn at least $30 per hour. At 40-hour weeks plus benefits, I estimate the cost per worker to be over $75,000 per year, all paid by the foreign manufacturers. Even so, this would still leave over $2.25 billion to cover all other costs. Any revenue not used would be used to compensate American workers displaced by foreign imports. “

I urge and encourage everyone who agrees with this plan and or the terror tariff idea to communicate this to every politician you can think of.

8 posted on 08/21/2003 8:03:44 PM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Regulator
A toxic, evil coalition.

You got that right Regulator. Both parties are being fueled with rivers of cash and votes from Vested Interests in hyper 3rd World Immigration and are selling out the Citizens of America, the very folks they are constitutionally bound to represent, as fast as they can. We really have just One Party in control of this country today. It's the Lobby-Driven Beltway Party and it puts on one heck of a show every election to convince the electorate that there is a difference between the 2 parties when in reality they have more in common than they have in differences.

The Founding Fathers understood well that as government grows relative to the population so does the level of corruption. IMO, our government has reached the point in its largeness where it is teetering on outright treason against the American People.

9 posted on 08/21/2003 9:09:35 PM PDT by WRhine
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To: WRhine
selling out the Citizens of America, the very folks they are constitutionally bound to represent

I agree that this is exactly what most of them are doing. The part I can't understand is that they must have children and grandchildren too, and how can they not care what kind of country they'll be leaving to their descendents? It's mind-boggling.

10 posted on 08/21/2003 9:21:26 PM PDT by janetgreen
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To: janetgreen
I agree that this is exactly what most of them are doing. The part I can't understand is that they must have children and grandchildren too, and how can they not care what kind of country they'll be leaving to their descendents? It's mind-boggling.

Well, for the most part, we are not dealing with ethical, honest people here so whatever they do is bound to be mind-boggling. IMO they just live for the moment and gamble that their wealth and power will insulate their family from any ensuing civil mayhem. Some I'm convinced, don't care at all about their children’s future.

11 posted on 08/21/2003 10:12:22 PM PDT by WRhine
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To: VU4G10
Liberals will never oppose immigration of any sort, legal or illegal, so long as they see it as the means to redress their loss of popular favor. They intend nothing less than the reshaping of the political landscape. Many even see unrestrained immigration as the means to set aside the constitution in favor of one world government.

They are well on the road to suceeding.
12 posted on 08/21/2003 10:25:13 PM PDT by nathanbedford (qqua)
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To: WRhine
Partly they live in a fantasy land caused by them being in a closed loop feedback system. I think liberalism or what passes for it is propped up by a few thousand hacks of the political left and right and little else. Joe Sobran has written well on the "dying ideology" of liberalism.
13 posted on 08/21/2003 10:27:08 PM PDT by junta (Xenophobia a perfectly reasonable response to the feckless stupidity of globalism.)
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To: VU4G10
au contraire, mon frair. If you'll apply the three-fold "liberal litmus test", you'll find that it makes perfect sense for liberals to support illegal immigration.

1. What's the stupidest opinion possible?
2. What damages this country the most?
3. What position allows you to call someone else "hateful"?

I think you'll see that for liberals, every day is a "no brainer."

14 posted on 08/21/2003 10:30:32 PM PDT by Richard Kimball
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To: VU4G10
Good post.
15 posted on 08/22/2003 5:31:14 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: VU4G10
(COPY AND DISTRIBUTE WIDELY. Revise and extend as you see fit, start a movement, print a petition, start a political party, confront your legislators, write letters, post posters, drop leaflets, demand, demand, demand…)

18 POINT ACTION PLAN: Border Violators

1) Close all US borders to illegal entry forthwith by any and all means possible, including military presence.

2) Maintain legitimate immigration levels at modest annual level with requirements that immigrants be employable or sufficiently wealthy for self-support if they do not intend to work, proficient in basic English and willing to be assimilated into American culture and language. All applicants shall provide prints, photos and DNA samples.

3) Legal immigration shall be awarded to individuals on a lottery basis, wherein all countries are given equal status in the immigration lottery, without regards to color or economic plight of originating nation.

4) Individuals of Islamic faith (muslims) from any country shall be denied immigration privileges or entry into the US. Christians and Jews from muslim countries fleeing religious persecution shall receive preferential and accelerated immigration privileges.

5) Detain all border violators, taking photos, prints and DNA samples of said violator while at the same time, checking for out standing warrants. If no warrants are outstanding, return border violators to home country within 20 days via commercial airline and submit cost of such action, including processing and housing costs for said violator, to country of origin. If costs are not paid within 30 days, reduce any and all aid to said country by a like amount.

6) Should any country from which a border violator originates not currently receive any aid from the US, the Justice Department shall be authorized to seize or secure liens on assets owned, managed or registered to that country to the full extent of the obligation.

7) Establish new Guest Worker Visa (GWV) category, renewable every six (6) months, for unskilled labor positions wherein all applicants shall provide prints, photos and DNA samples. Work permitted of such applicants shall be limited to one of several categories, including childcare, lawn/gardening, restaurant staff, cleaning, and the like. Families of GWV workers are not permitted to enter US, nor will the birth of a child to one of GWV status confer citizenship to either parent or child.

8) Any violation of civil or criminal laws shall result in the forfeiture of the GWV and immediate return to originating country.

9) GWV holders shall be prohibited from claiming unemployment benefits, welfare support or free medical service.

10) The originating country of all GWV holders shall be responsible for any uninsured loss caused by the GWV, including emergency medical claims and/or claims resulting from illegal actions committed while in the US.

11) Companies who hire GWV holders shall submit to the Immigration Dept the name and GWV number of that individual, along with a description of employment tasks. Companies shall be subject to fines and penalty that fail to report employment of GWV workers, or hire border violators. GWV workers shall be paid with check, having income tax withheld. GWV workers shall not be subject to unemployment tax because they are not eligible to receive unemployment compensation.

12) Border violators, or any non-citizen not possessing a valid visa, detained by local police for any reason shall be turned over to border control officials for immediate deportation action, except if they face criminal charges in other jurisdictions.

13) GWV workers shall be prohibited for voting in local, state and federal elections.

14) Border Violators shall NOT be afforded the rights enjoyed by American citizens, as guaranteed under the constitution.

15) Public education (at institutions supported by taxpayer dollars) at any level (pre-school, kindergarten through the university level,) shall NOT be available to Border Violators (or children of Border Violators) and schools that enroll such individuals shall be subject to penalties.

16) Foreign Students (F/S) (individuals admitted to the U.S. for the purpose of attending any educational facility,) private institution or public (i.e. supported by taxpayer dollars,) must have valid student visas, such visas being in force only if the F/S attends school full-time. F/S shall be required to pay tuition, housing and related costs such that all their educational costs are fully reimbursed to the institution attended. The originating country shall pay for any and all loss caused by students while on U.S. soil.

17) Border Violators seeking emergency medical treatment shall provide pictures, fingerprints and DNA samples along with country of origin, and shall be treated then incarcerated until information provided can be verified. Originating country shall bear the costs of medical treatment and confinement.

18) Children born in the U.S. to border violators, illegal aliens or of foreign nationals in the U.S. for any reason (including temporary visitor, school or work visas,) shall not be eligible for citizenship as circumstances of birth, nor shall the parents or parent’s family members (relatives) be conferred U.S. citizenship as a result of such births.

16 posted on 08/22/2003 5:33:06 AM PDT by Imagine
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To: VU4G10
(COPY AND DISTRIBUTE WIDELY. Revise and extend as you see fit, start a movement, print a petition, start a political party, confront your legislators, write letters, post posters, drop leaflets, demand, demand, demand…)

18 POINT ACTION PLAN: Border Violators

1) Close all US borders to illegal entry forthwith by any and all means possible, including military presence.

2) Maintain legitimate immigration levels at modest annual level with requirements that immigrants be employable or sufficiently wealthy for self-support if they do not intend to work, proficient in basic English and willing to be assimilated into American culture and language. All applicants shall provide prints, photos and DNA samples.

3) Legal immigration shall be awarded to individuals on a lottery basis, wherein all countries are given equal status in the immigration lottery, without regards to color or economic plight of originating nation.

4) Individuals of Islamic faith (muslims) from any country shall be denied immigration privileges or entry into the US. Christians and Jews from muslim countries fleeing religious persecution shall receive preferential and accelerated immigration privileges.

5) Detain all border violators, taking photos, prints and DNA samples of said violator while at the same time, checking for out standing warrants. If no warrants are outstanding, return border violators to home country within 20 days via commercial airline and submit cost of such action, including processing and housing costs for said violator, to country of origin. If costs are not paid within 30 days, reduce any and all aid to said country by a like amount.

6) Should any country from which a border violator originates not currently receive any aid from the US, the Justice Department shall be authorized to seize or secure liens on assets owned, managed or registered to that country to the full extent of the obligation.

7) Establish new Guest Worker Visa (GWV) category, renewable every six (6) months, for unskilled labor positions wherein all applicants shall provide prints, photos and DNA samples. Work permitted of such applicants shall be limited to one of several categories, including childcare, lawn/gardening, restaurant staff, cleaning, and the like. Families of GWV workers are not permitted to enter US, nor will the birth of a child to one of GWV status confer citizenship to either parent or child.

8) Any violation of civil or criminal laws shall result in the forfeiture of the GWV and immediate return to originating country.

9) GWV holders shall be prohibited from claiming unemployment benefits, welfare support or free medical service.

10) The originating country of all GWV holders shall be responsible for any uninsured loss caused by the GWV, including emergency medical claims and/or claims resulting from illegal actions committed while in the US.

11) Companies who hire GWV holders shall submit to the Immigration Dept the name and GWV number of that individual, along with a description of employment tasks. Companies shall be subject to fines and penalty that fail to report employment of GWV workers, or hire border violators. GWV workers shall be paid with check, having income tax withheld. GWV workers shall not be subject to unemployment tax because they are not eligible to receive unemployment compensation.

12) Border violators, or any non-citizen not possessing a valid visa, detained by local police for any reason shall be turned over to border control officials for immediate deportation action, except if they face criminal charges in other jurisdictions.

13) GWV workers shall be prohibited for voting in local, state and federal elections.

14) Border Violators shall NOT be afforded the rights enjoyed by American citizens, as guaranteed under the constitution.

15) Public education (at institutions supported by taxpayer dollars) at any level (pre-school, kindergarten through the university level,) shall NOT be available to Border Violators (or children of Border Violators) and schools that enroll such individuals shall be subject to penalties.

16) Foreign Students (F/S) (individuals admitted to the U.S. for the purpose of attending any educational facility,) private institution or public (i.e. supported by taxpayer dollars,) must have valid student visas, such visas being in force only if the F/S attends school full-time. F/S shall be required to pay tuition, housing and related costs such that all their educational costs are fully reimbursed to the institution attended. The originating country shall pay for any and all loss caused by students while on U.S. soil.

17) Border Violators seeking emergency medical treatment shall provide pictures, fingerprints and DNA samples along with country of origin, and shall be treated then incarcerated until information provided can be verified. Originating country shall bear the costs of medical treatment and confinement.

18) Children born in the U.S. to border violators, illegal aliens or of foreign nationals in the U.S. for any reason (including temporary visitor, school or work visas,) shall not be eligible for citizenship as circumstances of birth, nor shall the parents or parent’s family members (relatives) be conferred U.S. citizenship as a result of such births.
17 posted on 08/22/2003 5:34:58 AM PDT by Imagine
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To: VU4G10
This article sure nails it.
18 posted on 08/22/2003 6:26:36 AM PDT by wjcsux
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To: nathanbedford; William McKinley; belmont_mark; ALOHA RONNIE; maui_hawaii; Travis McGee; ...
Liberals will never oppose immigration of any sort, legal or illegal, so long as they see it as the means to redress their loss of popular favor. They intend nothing less than the reshaping of the political landscape. Many even see unrestrained immigration as the means to set aside the constitution in favor of one world government. They are well on the road to suceeding.

QUOTE OF THE DAY.




19 posted on 08/22/2003 7:57:20 AM PDT by Paul Ross (A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one!-A. Hamilton)
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To: Regulator
"A toxic, evil coalition."

I was impressed with how Arnold handled questioning this week on this subject. When an hispanic journalist asked him about immigration, Arnold told him how 30 years ago he worked very hard to get a temporary working visa. Then he said, that he worked very hard for a year to get a green card. Finally, he said that he after 10 years he worked hard to become a citizen; and that this year is his 20 year anniversary as a naturalized American citizen. And, he was planning a big celebration.
Later, another journalist asked about the border problem. To this he answered that the border comes under federal jurisdiction and that he would go to Bush for funds to help offset the costs (or something like that). This was timely, because there have been several articles recently on the billions of dollars that illegals cost in education, welfare, health, housing, etc. Not to mention loss of employment to Americans.
I would have preferred a tougher stance, but as you pointed out, this is a touchy situation, and he does want to get elected. On the whole, I thought he did very well indeed.
20 posted on 08/22/2003 7:59:16 AM PDT by LibertyAndJusticeForAll
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To: VU4G10
I have a account at Citibank and was really disgusted yesterday to see signs all over the place that they accept Mexican ID cards to open an account. Their going to hear about and I'm closing my account. Why the hell do they need my SS# and illegals can open an account with a worthless ID?Bastards.
21 posted on 08/22/2003 8:03:57 AM PDT by novacation
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To: novacation
I left "el Citibank" for the Lockheed Federal Credit Union.
22 posted on 08/22/2003 8:44:59 AM PDT by VU4G10 (Have You Forgotten?)
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To: Imagine
18 point memo sent to President Bush (again). I wish he would read it, but he doesn't seem to want to do anything to stop illegal immigration. That's why I won't be voting for him again.
23 posted on 08/22/2003 8:55:27 AM PDT by janetgreen
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To: junta
Partly they live in a fantasy land caused by them being in a closed loop feedback system.

The cushy Beltway Life of Luxury can have that effect on many a politician. Good Point. There is little in the way of reality in that town and political incest across party lines is the norm.

24 posted on 08/22/2003 10:47:00 AM PDT by WRhine
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To: LibertyAndJusticeForAll
He does appear to be learning quickly. It will be rather interesting to contrast Arnold The Self Made Immigrant with Cruz "We are not Eeemeegrants, Dees Eees Ahr Lahnd" Bustamante.
25 posted on 08/22/2003 11:21:38 AM PDT by Regulator
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To: janetgreen
I don't think he will agree to anything like the 18 points until the demands from the public cannot be stiffled anymore.
26 posted on 08/22/2003 11:45:21 AM PDT by Imagine
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To: Imagine
I don't think he will agree to anything like the 18 points until the demands from the public cannot be stiffled anymore

I was listening to a local (Phoenix) talk in show as I was running errands this morning. The issue was a day workers center that was built in a neighborhood to accomodate the illegal aliens who used to stand on the sreets in that neighborhood waiting for companies and individuals to pick them up to work that day.

They had a council member on taking questions. Some idiot woman who thought it was a swell idea.

Well, every caller was more irate than the last. People are really very angry over this issue. The callers were so passionate and were just saying everything you wish you could say.

27 posted on 08/22/2003 1:09:11 PM PDT by riri
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To: riri
Ha. You should hear the callers into Southern California talk radio. People are just fit to be tied over the whole thing. Clueless politicians just ain't getting it; as usual, they are waaaaay behind the curve.
28 posted on 08/22/2003 2:28:23 PM PDT by truthkeeper
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To: WRhine
As Sobran says liberal politics are narrow and venal and beyond the haters they inspire few are deluded enough to passionately embrace them anymore.
29 posted on 08/22/2003 3:06:05 PM PDT by junta (Xenophobia a perfectly reasonable response to the feckless stupidity of globalism.)
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To: VU4G10
In what is probably a first in our history, members of the right and left have a common interest in encouraging illegal immigration and imported labor.

Or possibly there is another reason than selfishness. It can be the plain stupidity of the type widespread abong "educated" godless people - the blind belief in the fashionable ideas as Orwell and Solzhenitsyn demonstrated. Many of "intelligent" people still believe the mass rape/death camps in Bosnia.

The simplistic worldview of free marketeering is much easier to absorb than elaborate marxist or nazist ideologies. After the collapse of red and brown projects the fools have to have something to follow.

30 posted on 08/22/2003 6:48:46 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: riri
Copy the 18 Point Action Plan for Border Violators and spread it widely. Good luck in agitating the good people.
31 posted on 08/22/2003 7:58:42 PM PDT by Imagine ( A)
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To: Imagine
Can he win in CT?http://www.streitzforsenate.com/senate2004_003.htm
32 posted on 08/23/2003 5:37:28 PM PDT by 4.1O dana super trac pak (Stop the open borders death cult)
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