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The Real Ten Commandments: Solon vs. Moses
infidels.org ^ | Richard Carrier

Posted on 08/22/2003 10:59:42 PM PDT by Destro

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To: Phsstpok
And he particularly hated the Jews, because they represented the line of Abraham which had spurned his ancestor.

I have a more Freudian take on it. Muhamed was an Arab outsider wanting in on civilization. You had the Zoroastrian Persians, the Christian Romans and the strong community of Jews. The pagan Arabs were like children looking to fit in.

Muhamed viewed the Jews and the Christians as his mother and father. When the Jews and Christians rejected him it was as if his mother and father rejected him. The result was violence.

101 posted on 08/23/2003 3:56:59 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Phsstpok
It is no accident that the Muslims fell on Zoroastrian Perisa first, then sent emissaries to the Christian Romans (who we call Byzantines now) in peace looking to convert them.

It was like "Look daddy, I defeated your ancient Persian enemy for you. Love me Daddy"

102 posted on 08/23/2003 4:00:53 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Destro; WOSG; Wilhelm Tell
Were I depart from atheists is that they see all religion as unnatural. I don't. In point of fact a religious belief system it is a naturally occurring phenomenon amongst all peoples since the dawn of time. Therefore I consider religion to be a positive part of our human psyche, God or no.

While this is commonly believed, it is not true.

There have been periods in history when men and women found spiritual fulfilment, as I and increasing numbers do today, in nature, art; long periods too when they lived without religious beliefs. The Ancients, wrote the philosopher John Locke in 1689, had no beliefs in a personal god, and about the same time French missionaries seeking converts were finding godless societies living contentedly all over the world.

The Indians of the Gaspe peninsula, wrote Chretien Le Clerq, had never formed a conception of any divinity but were charitable beyond anything in Europe, while the Jesuit Le Jeune found the natives of Cap Breton "exceptionally clever, honest and decent, very generous with a cheerful disposition", but also godless. And the Dominican Jean-Baptiste du Tertre whose church had warned him he would find black atheists in the Antilles to be depraved found otherwise.

"The love they have for one another is extremely tender... they assist each other in all their illnesses and cannot see their companions mistreated without feeling their pain." Similar discoveries were made in Thailand, China and Japan.

From "Put away childish things" Ludovic Kennedy, Thursday April 17, 2003, The Guardian

Hank

103 posted on 08/23/2003 5:33:37 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: WOSG; Destro; spunkets; ATOMIC_PUNK; Matchett-PI
Ideas are not superior to the experience of reality.

That is correct. Existence is primary, then our consicousness of it, then we form 'ideas' (concepts) about that which we are conscious of.

In general, your analysis of the history of philsophy is also correct.

It is interesting how many people become so adamant about the authority of the ten commandments, claiming such things as, "there is not absolute moral code," to those who reject them. Moral relativism is the invention of Biblical teaching. God commands the children of Israel, "Thou shalt not kill," and a five books later he his telling those same children of Israel (actually the next generation, since the former all died in the wilderness), to go into the land of Canaan and kill everyone, man, woman, child, and beast.

And for those who insist the ten commandments are absolute law, how many of them keep Saturday holy?

Hank

104 posted on 08/23/2003 6:19:57 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
""there is not absolute moral code," to those who reject them.

There is an absolute moral code. It's purpose is to protect life, rights and property.

"Moral relativism is the invention of Biblical teaching. God commands the children of Israel, "Thou shalt not kill," and a five books later he his telling those same children of Israel (actually the next generation, since the former all died in the wilderness), to go into the land of Canaan and kill everyone, man, woman, child, and beast."

Bogus. God told them to do no such thing. It was the Israelites that decided that was the thing to do.

"And for those who insist the ten commandments are absolute law, how many of them keep Saturday holy?"

What does it mean to keep the day Holy? What's so special about Saturday?

105 posted on 08/23/2003 6:44:10 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: Destro
Sparta did not produce a single poet, writer, or artist.

Alcman.

106 posted on 08/23/2003 6:55:51 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage
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To: A.J.Armitage
Xenophon
107 posted on 08/23/2003 7:20:37 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: spunkets
I said: Moral relativism is the invention of Biblical teaching. God commands the children of Israel, "Thou shalt not kill," and a five books later he his telling those same children of Israel (actually the next generation, since the former all died in the wilderness), to go into the land of Canaan and kill everyone, man, woman, child, and beast.

You said: Bogus. God told them to do no such thing. It was the Israelites that decided that was the thing to do.

But the Bible says (for example), Deuteronomy 20:16-17 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

I said: And for those who insist the ten commandments are absolute law, how many of them keep Saturday holy?

You asked: What does it mean to keep the day Holy? What's so special about Saturday?

As far as I am concerned there is nothing special about Saturday at all, but for those who claim the ten commandments are the absolute law of God, it is everything. It is the forth commandment.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

The sabbath is Saturday, the seventh day of the week. It commemorates the day God rested from His creation activities and is symbolic of the believer's "rest" in the finished work of Christ. It is explained with the commandments themselves:

Exodus 20:9-11 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Now, if the ten commandemnts are absolute, and God's law never changes, and you work on Saturday (the seventh day of the week), you are breaking the absolute moral code of God. Funny, isn't it. The ten commandments are only absolute when they are convenient.

Hank

108 posted on 08/23/2003 7:26:56 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
That is unsceintific nonsense written by men who only viewed God and religion from their own cultural contexts. These men who observed such things were primitive in their methods of observation and analysis. A belief system in some sort of supernatural system is universal and prehistoric and dare I say pre-human? From the burial practice of Neanderthals (burying their dead in beds of flowers-why would they bury their dead anyway?) to the cave paintings of the Cro-Magnon's and beyond.

That does not mean their is a god or a spirit world, just that humans all over seem to think their should be and act accordingly.

109 posted on 08/23/2003 7:31:37 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: A.J.Armitage
Alcman was around before the code of Lycurgus molded Sparta into what we know of it. In fact Sparta before its militaristic phase was very much like Athens and other Greek cities and after was a "laconic" place for the arts.
110 posted on 08/23/2003 7:35:00 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: PatrickHenry; A.J.Armitage
Xenophon was an Athenian exile to Sparta.
111 posted on 08/23/2003 7:35:36 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Hank Kerchief
That does not mean their there is a god or a spirit world, just that humans all over seem to think their should be and act accordingly.
112 posted on 08/23/2003 7:37:54 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: M Kehoe
Hmm. Guess that it's not true that "with God, all things are possible".
113 posted on 08/23/2003 7:42:10 PM PDT by Dimensio (Sometimes I doubt your committment to Sparkle Motion!)
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To: Destro
From the burial practice of Neanderthals (burying their dead in beds of flowers-why would they bury their dead anyway?)

You evidently have been fortunate enough never to have been around a human cadaver that has been dead for any length of time. If you had, as I unfortunately have, you would not ask why they buried them, and flowers seems a natural way to try to cover up the putrid odor.

Hank

114 posted on 08/23/2003 7:57:33 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
That is an ignorant statement.

http://hrsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/waymac/History%20A/A%20Term%201/2.%20Origins/Neanderthal%20Notes.htm

One of the most fascinating and controversial burial sites is the Shanidar Cave. The remains there, called Shanidar IV, were carefully placed in the fetal position on a rough bedding of woven woody horsetail, a type of local plant. According to the pollen samples taken, this Neanderthal was interred with several different species of flowers. "From the orderly distribution of grains around the fossil remains, there is no question that the flowers were arranged deliberately and did not simply topple into the grave, as believed, as the body was being covered" (Leaky and Lewin 1977:125). Apparently, the family and friends of the deceased gathered these distinct species of flowers, carried them to the grave, and carefully placed them on the body. Some of the flower specimens found with Shanidar IV were yarrow, cornflowers, St. Banaby's thistle, groundsel, grape hyacinths, woody horsetail, and a kind of mallow. Many of these have medicinal qualities which "range from relief from toothache and inflammation to uses as poultices and for spasm" (Solecki 1971:249). According to Solecki, "one may speculate that the individual was not only a very important man, a leader, but may have been a kind of medicine man or shaman in his group" (Shreeve 1995:53). From this analysis it is likely that the "Shanidar people were aware of at least some of the medicinal properties of the flowers is not unlikely" (Leaky and Lewin 1977:125).

This skeleton showed that he had been buried lying on his back, slightly inclined towards the left, with flexed legs. Three flat stones, were associated with the burial, one near the skull and the others on the arms, and various incised large bones, bone splinters, and flint flakes had been put in his grave, the former often being interpreted as protection for the burial. Near the male grave was the skeleton of a woman aged between twenty-five and thirty, buried in a such a position to suggest that she might have been tied up before burial. No grave goods accompanied this burial. Neanderthals three and four were buried in trenches both 30-40 cm deep and very similar in appearance. They contained the bones of two (possibly three) children and one fetus or neonate. Amidst the sterile trenches was one oval depression, 40 by 30 cm, which contained the remains of an incomplete foetus (aged about seven months) and three beautifully made racloirs. (Shackley 1980:87)

The burial site of the "Old Man," at La Chapelle-aux-Saints, was of vital importance in the growth of ideas about Neanderthals during the turn of this century. This individual was buried on his back, with his head to the west, the left arm extended and his legs flexed to the right. Next to the head were three long bones of a mammalian metatarsal, along with other animal remains. Many of these bones appear to have be burnt, as well as the surrounding sediment, which could possibly represent some feast that took place before this individual was buried.

115 posted on 08/23/2003 8:30:57 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Phsstpok
Great synopsis of the historical facts. THANKS ! I was too tired to get into all of that, when I posted. :-)
116 posted on 08/23/2003 9:05:31 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Hank Kerchief
" But the Bible says (for example), Deuteronomy 20:16-17"

Matt 19:8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."

War is a clash of wills. If you understood Deuteronomy, you would understand that Moses's goal is to purify the land his enemies. Thou shalt not kill does not refer to self defense. Moses saw it at self defense. The rule did not apply for thoes outside of Israel, unless they were particularly stubborn and insistant attackers.

Moses gave the rule, not God. Moses also led them to where he thought the promised land was. God gave the gift of Life and the Earth to all men. He did not parcel out this land for the Israelites. That was Moses job to do. They were to become a nation and have their own land. Have you not heard, Genesis 3:17-19
"To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."

The Holy Spirit was their spiritual and moral guide, but not their general.

The Jews had Sat. and Christians have Sun. They both have their reasons for choosing particular days. In the end it's not what day that counts, it's the activities of the day that matter. The activities that are important are prayer, family and rest. Failing to set aside that day would be breaking the commandment.

117 posted on 08/23/2003 10:47:09 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: Destro
Izzie Stone had it out for Socrates too ... here:

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/socrates/ifstoneinterview.html

maybe this is where the guy got his thesis from. The claims seem remarkably similar, accusing Socrates of being a fellow traveller of the Athenian despots who ruined Athenian democracy.
118 posted on 08/23/2003 11:12:51 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: WOSG
The Ten Commandments are a great set of guidelines, but the idea that they are the basis of our law is a bit of a stretch to me.
While we did have individual colonies with religious based law, none of the Ten Commandments were incorporated into Federal Law when our Nation was founded. The sixth – ninth were incorporated into State law.
119 posted on 08/24/2003 4:05:39 AM PDT by R. Scott
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To: spunkets
Moses saw it at self defense.

You may rationalize these things any way you like, and believe them too. But, for the rest of us, "thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth ... as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee," cannot possibly be stretched to mean "self defense." What threat, exactly, were babies and animals?

Believe what you want to believe, that is what freedom of religion is. But do not expect others to be convinced the ten commandments are worth much if those who claim to revere them do not mind changing the meaning whenever they feel like it. We just don't believe you, and the more you protest, the more we are convinced its all a big sham.

Hank

120 posted on 08/24/2003 5:38:55 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
The ten commandments are only absolute when they are convenient.

Your wife, she is mighty attractive, what are your office hours again?

121 posted on 08/24/2003 5:51:08 AM PDT by Bluntpoint
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To: Hank Kerchief
You evidently have been fortunate enough never to have been around a human cadaver that has been dead for any length of time.

What are you doing next weekend? I will supply the beer!

122 posted on 08/24/2003 5:53:08 AM PDT by Bluntpoint
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To: Hank Kerchief
" You may rationalize these things any way you like, and believe them too.

I made no rationalization. It's the truth. Moses was building a nation. He was formong the fabric of their society and obtaining land. For your information those were the old days. That's the way things were done back then. Conquest and plunder and other rights violations ruled the Earth. The Israelites opted to change that within their own borders.

"But, for the rest of us, "thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth ... as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee," cannot possibly be stretched to mean "self defense." What threat, exactly, were babies and animals?"

Yes it did mean self defense to them. Did you read the last sentence in the chapter you posted? They wanted all external influence out of their borders. They were separatists. Besides, the rest of the world would kill, or enslave them if they could. That's the way it was back then and still is with some folks, especially the socialists.

So, what is wrong with the commandments, Thou shalt not steal, lie, kill, covet, dishonor your parents, or commit adultery. Does the fact that Moses didn't behave as you would have liked detract from them.

" We just don't believe you, and the more you protest, the more we are convinced its all a big sham."

Would Mr. Kerchief have acted any differently back then? I think not, or he would be either kerchief slave of whoever grabbed his ass first, or the kerchief the deceased.

123 posted on 08/24/2003 7:52:43 AM PDT by spunkets
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To: Southack
The new, Godless Left refuses to use BC and AD for their dates. Instead, they use B.C.E (Before Current Era or Before Common Era) and C.E. or CE (Current Era or Common Era), rather than the religious abreviations of our legal calendar (BC and AD).

Why? I would rather read C.E. as Christian Era and B.C.E. as Before Christian Era :)

124 posted on 08/24/2003 10:34:22 AM PDT by A. Pole
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To: WOSG
Do any serious non-primitive polytheists even exist today?

Yes - Shinto and some currents of Hinduism.

125 posted on 08/24/2003 10:38:12 AM PDT by A. Pole
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To: WOSG
Law has several levels.

Physical law: Example-The speed of light is 186,284 miles a second, it is not just a good idea, it is the law. Physical laws take care of it self.

Natural Law: Example: People retain the right of revolution. Of course, Tyrants retain the right of oppression. The strongest wins. Self evident indeed!

Constitutional Law: The prescription of organizations, powers, and prohibitions associated with the founding documents of a nation. It can either be a single document, or a vast number accumulated over time as is done in the UK.

Legislative Law: Made by the legislature, and in the US approved by the executive (or the legislature overrides his veto). This includes rules on filibusters in the legislature itself.

Common law: The body of court cases which provide guidance to judges. Most of this covers procedures in the US since matters of fact are normally reserved to the Jury.

Tradition: habitual practice, which can be changed by any of the above. If physical law changes ( a new value of pi, due to changes in the physical universe) then the traditional value of pi is no longer used, because it doesnt work.

That all men are created equal is not self evident. We all have differences, and wealth, royalty, stature were all unequal. Oh but it sounded so GOOD, and was a mighty poke in the eye to the servants of the king! The D of I was a mighty work of propaganda! By objecting to it the King was cast in the role of tyrant or legal nitpicker, either of which loses.
126 posted on 08/24/2003 12:34:00 PM PDT by donmeaker (Bigamy is one wife too many. So is monogamy, or is it monotony?)
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To: montag813
Socrates was not their greatest thinker. He was a traitor!

Athens had fought a war for liberty, and LOST. They were regaining their freedom. Socrates promugated the notion that the state was supreme, the organizing principle of Sparta, who had just defeated Athens.

So, the clever men in the government of Athens set him a puzzle. Governments can act capriciously, and because of that, the power of the state must be restrained. The government of Athens passed a sentence of death by drinking Hemlock on him. To be true to his stated principle, he would have to accept it, or he could run away, accept exile, and be shown to be a hypocrite. Socrates accepted the Hemlock, demonstrating that the State must be restrained, and gained immorality due to his student Plato.

By the way, Plato was not present at his death. Hemlock is excrutiating, and according to Plato, he just fell asleep. Sparta, and their partisan, Socrates, was the spiritual founder of statists everywhere.



127 posted on 08/24/2003 12:44:22 PM PDT by donmeaker (Bigamy is one wife too many. So is monogamy, or is it monotony?)
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To: WOSG
"Descartes-style skepticism of all experience "

I kind of liked Descartes. He observed. His premise before "I think, therefore i am" was I doubt, therefore I think".

So know you know what I think of faith. If you do not doubt, then.....
128 posted on 08/24/2003 12:49:49 PM PDT by donmeaker (Bigamy is one wife too many. So is monogamy, or is it monotony?)
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To: Phsstpok
According to Genesis, Ishmael was the first born of abram. Issac was never the only son, and if Sarah was Abram's sister, then Issac was the child of incest.

Abram had another wife too, Keturah. Sons mentioned include Midian, Hanoch, Abidia, Eldaah, Ephah, Epher. Each was given land.

The oldest part of the bible is the story of David and Jonathan. The rest of the bible was written backwards! Judges was written in the time of Solomon to create a common people. Deuteronomy was written in the time of Josiah to justify the authority of priests. It is an old story, that little stories are turned into big stories. It happened in the New Testament too, Matthew being written based on the desire to flesh out Mark, and dump in as many prophecies as possible. Of course, the author of Matthew (4th century) began by lying about his authorship. His prophecies used the greek version of the old testament, and many prophecies such as that of the virgin birth have no basis in the Hebrew or Aramaic texts.

It still goes on. The Koran, and the Book of Mormon are recent examples of religious fraud. Joseph Smith was found guilty of plagerism after he lifted the manuscript of a book of fiction from the house of a doctor whose well he had been hired to dig. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a forgery of the Tsarist police based on earlier forgeries in France, also fit in here. Frauds are usually compiled for political purposes. After a few years, they get accepted by some lunatics, and a few hundred years later, the fraud is the "Word of God".

If you would like your eyes opened, read "The sacred mushroom and the cross" by john allegro.
129 posted on 08/24/2003 1:15:09 PM PDT by donmeaker (Bigamy is one wife too many. So is monogamy, or is it monotony?)
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To: PatrickHenry
Xenophon was from Athens. While he fought, he fought as an Athenian general. After he retired he retired to Sparta.
130 posted on 08/24/2003 1:19:24 PM PDT by donmeaker (Bigamy is one wife too many. So is monogamy, or is it monotony?)
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To: donmeaker
According to Genesis, Ishmael was the first born of abram.

And you point is? Isn't that what I said?

If you would like your eyes opened, read "The sacred mushroom and the cross" by john allegro.

OK, that's just stupid. Read any Von Daniken lately? It's better than Allegro and a far sight more believable. Concentrate on this:

NON NOBIS DOMINAE NON NOBIS SED NOMINI TUO DA GLORIAM

131 posted on 08/24/2003 1:40:17 PM PDT by Phsstpok
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To: donmeaker
Xenophon was from Athens.

Well, poo!

132 posted on 08/24/2003 1:43:21 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: donmeaker
He was quite a good thinker, but you shouldnt be too fond of Descartes. He was wrong to trust inner "reason" over real experience, he "I think therefore I am" is flawed inasmuch as identity itself can be a mirage (think of a psychotic multi-personality disordered individual). The sort of thinking that allows you to defy common experience is what has led to the evils of ideologies, moral relativism, nihilism, communism, etc. in short, a host of idealisms that are wrong and dangerous. Doubt is a thinking "process" not a valid epistemology nor conclusion.
133 posted on 08/24/2003 2:54:53 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: A. Pole
"I would rather read C.E. as Christian Era and B.C.E. as Before Christian Era."

I still like BC/AD, but a pinch, that will do as a fine retort the PC abbreviation police!
134 posted on 08/24/2003 2:58:52 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: R. Scott
"none of the Ten Commandments were incorporated into Federal Law when our Nation was founded."

This doesnt surprise at at all as much as the Federal Govt was limited in scope to matters between states, not regulation of individuals. That kind of obtrusiveness only started in the New Deal era and after.

The States themselves had "police" powers, and did incorporate much of the Ten Commandments.


As for the history: Alfred the Great prefaced his laws with the Ten Commandments. English common law grew out of the same root.
135 posted on 08/24/2003 3:03:26 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: donmeaker
I am sorry you misunderstand the "natural law" concept as understood by our Founders and thinkers of the enlightenment. and earlier. Aquinas had a quite different take on justice and 'natural law'.

Are you another soul 'lost' to modernist "will to power" relativism? Hope not.
136 posted on 08/24/2003 3:08:30 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: Hank Kerchief
"Moral relativism" is a modern invention.

The dilemma you speak of is quite different and is one which was discussed and dispatched my medieval scholars and age-old philosopher - to wit: Is it possible for God to be immoral?
Of course, this question is only of interest if you actually believe in God. Is that not so?

Otherwise your point is debate-tactic sophistry. The retort in such case would be God's claim in the Bible: "My ways are not your ways". Of course, God is smart enough to keep his bases covered!

137 posted on 08/24/2003 3:12:54 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: WOSG
Is it possible for God to be immoral?

The real question would be, "is it possible for God to be moral?

Morality requires a choice between right and wrong. If, as most theologians have taught, right and wrong are dictated by God, God cannot be a moral being. He never has to make a choice, because whatever He chooses is morally correct, because He decides.

The problem is, this is essentially the ammoral principle of "might-makes-right."

Hank

138 posted on 08/24/2003 5:51:40 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
That was an interesting article, thanks for the link.

Perhaps a case could be made that it get it's own thread going, or is one already started?
139 posted on 08/24/2003 9:50:39 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)
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To: Hank Kerchief
And actually, the true translation is, "thou shalt not murder"

it is not kill, making war is NOT exempted through the 10 commandments.

War is therefore OK, to kill your enemies before they kill you is OK with the Jewish and Christian god, and therefore the Muslim one too I suppose, since they are all supposedly the same god, except the dude has got to be some kind of Schizo if that is the case, Multiple personality and all that Psychobabble.
140 posted on 08/24/2003 9:54:02 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)
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To: WOSG
The States themselves had "police" powers, and did incorporate much of the Ten Commandments.
As for the history: Alfred the Great prefaced his laws with the Ten Commandments. English common law grew out of the same root.

They incorporated four of the ten. Most have now dropped the proscription against adultery.
Many State laws are common to Western (and other) culture. Solon of Athens (died 559 B.C.) put much of it in writing when he wrote the Athenian Laws. The idea of not committing murder, arson, robbery, etc. is so imbedded in our culture that no one source can be deemed as standing above any other.

141 posted on 08/25/2003 4:25:43 AM PDT by R. Scott
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To: Southack
I doubt it. Orthodox Jews use the Jewish calendar with Jewish years. On the other hand, there are no doubt many liberal Jews who will gladly sign on to BCE and CE designations

I was educated in an Orthodox Jewish school and we were taught to use "BCE" and "CE" when writing a secular date.

142 posted on 08/25/2003 9:09:55 AM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: A.J.Armitage
Tyrtaeus was also a Spartan poet.
143 posted on 08/30/2003 3:53:29 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: donmeaker
The oldest part of the bible is the story of David and Jonathan. The rest of the bible was written backwards!

Fascinating.

Matthew (4th century)

Perhaps you should pass this on to scholars so they'll know to ignore those silly old pre-4th century quotations.

If you would like your eyes opened, read "The sacred mushroom and the cross" by john allegro.


144 posted on 08/30/2003 6:57:21 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage
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 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach

Note: this topic is from deep in the FRchives.



Blast from the Past.

Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


145 posted on 06/09/2013 6:46:05 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (McCain or Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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