Electric Car Towing a Generator - EnviroMENTAL Whacko Alert

August 23, 2003 | Eldoradude

[eldoradude]

On my way home from work today at about 5 P.M. I saw the dumbest example of environmentalism gone mad. Just east of Folsom Blvd. on Highway 50 I saw a Ford Focus Electric car. Here's the stupid part. It was TOWING A GAS POWERED GENERATOR to provide the electricity to make the car go.

It was a large wheeled generator, the type that uses over three gallons per hour to run. The Ford Focus was going about 50 mph, probably close to top speed. Assuming it needed 3 gallons of gasoline to run for one hour and it traveled 50 miles in that hour, this moron is effectively getting less than 17 miles per gallon!

Can you believe it?

[reagan_fanatic]

But it makes the enviro-wackos feel good...

[eldoradude]

This is what the big energy and pollution tax credits are going for. I wish I had had a camera to take a picture of this idiot!

[Sometimes A River]

Like the water-less, flushless toilet.

[Paul Atreides]

There was an article posted here a few days ago about an enviroweenie who had some trees chopped down so that he could build a house.

[dagnabbit]

Is it legal to tow a gassed-up, running generator?

[tet68]

But Dude, you don't understand, he's got a wind turbine running his oil well and cracking plant so he probably gets
19 mpg.

[rellimpank]

--wonder where the owner-operator studied physics?

[John Jamieson]

A whole bunch of people paid $5,000 extra for a Prius to save 500 gallons of gas each. Yes, I believe it.

[Young Werther]

this doofus probably thinks that physics is what you take when constipated!

[freekitty]

oops....they forgot to tell us that it has to use gas to operate.

[rockfish59]

Was he heading for the blackout?

[rogue yam]

Dude!

The configuration you describe sounds very inefficient and is therefore whack.

However the new hybrid cars are really an application of this same set-up, all housed within the engine compartment of the car, of course. With the different components sized and integrated correctly, and taking advantage of other efficiencies (e.g. capturing momentum during braking) these cars can be much more fuel efficient that standard gasoline-only cars.

It's all new technology and therefore it is not price-competitive yet. And I do not necessarily support any subsidies of these technologies. But that is not to say that hybrid cars won't one day be competitive on price and other performance with standard gasoline cars.

[Hugin]

Hey, I live right near there in Folsom. Haven't seen that, but I do see beat up old cars belching smoke with Ralph Nader, Greenpeace, etc. stickers plastered all over them.

[Mo1]

It was TOWING A GAS POWERED GENERATOR to provide the electricity to make the car go.

FOFL ... Oh yea .. they are saving the planet /sarcasm >

[F.J. Mitchell]

"Can you believe it?"

On this asylum planet, ran by the inmates? Absolutely.

[gitmo]

Don't be so obtuse. He had to tow the generator, because they don't make extension cords longer than a couple thousand feet.

[alancarp]

Actually, this sounds a lot like something a FReeper would do -- just to make a point!

[eldoradude]

I don't know the legalities but it was very noisy and belching a lot of exhaust. I'm sure that this generator was creating more air pollution that a fleet of gas powered cars.

[dc27]

Did the car have a Howard Dean bumpter sticker?

[F.J. Mitchell]

If they would install huge wheels on the back and tiny wheels on the front, so the car is always running down hill, all else it would need is a really good set of brakes.

[eldoradude]

No, but it did have a greenpeace bumper sticker and a large white on black peace sign on the top of the rear window.

[atomic conspiracy]

ROFLMAO! The very latest in moonbat touchy-feely tech. The next logical step is to have the generator power a Hollywood style battery of sunlamps that would illuminate a giant array of solar cells on a second trailer.

Before I became a geologist (way before), I was a groundskeeper at the local municipal recreational complex. The place was big, about 60 acres, so we used golf-carts to get around. The carts didn't have enough charge to go all day and it was sometimes pretty inconvenient to limp into the garage and get a fully-charged one. Sometimes these weren't available at all, if someone forgot to plug them in. The city would not buy a gasoline vehicle for us, partly on eco-wacky grounds, so we rigged one cart with a Honda portable generator, so we could re-charge as we went. It worked but I think a fleet of Hummers would have been more efficient (if they had existed then).

[dagnabbit]

But will my SUV run off tofu?

[F.J. Mitchell]

You never heard of rubber extension cords, that stretch and stretch, and on the return trip all the propulsion is furnished by the cord retracting?

[ElkGroveDan]

Dud you should have taken a picture. This story is priceless.

[ElkGroveDan]

Actually, this sounds a lot like something a FReeper would do -- just to make a point!

Nah, a Freeper would tow a small nuclear reactor.......know where I can get one?

[SierraWasp]

Thank Goodness, right minded people aren't right brain people like this idiot!!!

The problem is... We have CA Air Resources people at 2020 "I" Street in Sacramento that are WAY more stupid than this joker!!!

"Thank Goodness were not getting all the government we're payin for!" (Will Rogers)

[joesnuffy]

LOL that is just perfect...and the moron was patting himself on the back for
being an example of what man needs to do to save the earth....

[Down South P.E.]

Is it legal to tow a gassed-up, running generator?

I doubt it. First it just sounds illegal and maybe dangerous. Second, there are highway emission standards.

[Cobra64]

A chemical engineer friend once told me that every time you convert one form of energy to another, due to the mechanism(s) involved, you will LOSE efficiences.

So, If you burn gasoline to power a generator to create electricity, you are in the red, big time, in the energy efficiency pond.

The concept of an electric car is ludicrous; for instance, the electric utility has to burn X amount of coal or gas, then use that to create steam water to spin turbine blades connected to a 50 ton (whatever the weight) armature to spin generating armature to generate wattage which will have to be sent through a grid network (remember last week when the network was ailing? real reliable, huh?) to the future Exxons/Mobile service stations selling electricity... These people can't think through the process.

I'd say that portable fuels should be be used for portable means of transportation. Gasoline for cars and trucks, kerosene for the bigger trucks, tractors, diesel locomotives, etc.

Other forms of energy that the above sector can't mange, like COAL and NUKE energy should be utilized be GENERATING PLANTS. They don't move around too much; last I heard.

[Erasmus]

Nah, a Freeper would tow a small nuclear reactor.......know where I can get one?

Since they raised the Kursk, I'm not sure.

[atomic conspiracy]

Nah, a Freeper would tow a small nuclear reactor.......know where I can get one?

Sure, write to these guys: MITEE:(Miniature Thermal ReacTor EnginE). Reactor weight, ~100 kgs; complete engine weight, ~140 kgs. This is intended for interplanetary rockets, so it should be more than adequate for a car.

[Down South P.E.]

I wrote my masters thesis on this 10 years ago. I said then California would have to back up on their "zero emission" standards and their mandated sales of these type vehicles. And they did.

The public isn't going to buy something that doesn't give them the same performance or better than the car they drive now. Who wants to drive 50 miles and have to recharge the batteries for 4 hours. And five years or less down the road from purchasing it spend thousand to replace a batter pack - bad for the pocket book and environment. Electric vehicle technology ain't going to make it before hybrids and fuel cells - if ever - solar will many many years from now - if the Lord tarries.

I also said in my thesis hybrids would be on the market within 10 to 15 years (that was 10 years ago) and that fuel cells would be longer term 25+ years (from 10 years ago). Hybrids will be on the mass market first. The technology is there - it's conventional. They get substantially better miles per gallon gasoline equivalent and substantially reduce emissions. If natural gas is used instead of gasoline the efficienty (and therefore miles per gallon) is increased and emissions are even further reduced.

That said the big thing then is performance compared to what we drive now. I haven't driven one. You take care of that and mass production will take care of cost.

[Cobra64]

I don't know the legalities but it was very noisy and belching a lot of exhaust. I'm sure that this generator was creating more air pollution that a fleet of gas powered cars.

Great minds think alike. See my post below. All these dopes are doing is creating more pollution, or in case of "fill 'er up with 50kw of fuel, the elctrical plant will be belching fuel; which the enviro-nutbirds will rail against.

I saw more bicycle in Luzerne Switzerland than I did in San Fran. Can these uninformed bird-brains spell "isolated and uninformed morons?"

[Cobra64]

The next logical step is to have the generator power a Hollywood style battery of sunlamps that would illuminate a giant array of solar cells on a second trailer.

Sounds like a shot from a Barbara Streisand comment and/or most of the wealthy movies actors; "You people should conserve fuel, while I have soirees in my 75,000 sq. ft. house on a 900 amp service. After all, 150,000 kw a month is nothing to me when I rake in a few million a year on royalties.

Further, Babas said, "Besides, my power comes from 600 miles away and the winds head East. So I really don't give a sh!t about the "unwashed" in CA, because I am wealthier than most others in this state."

[StriperSniper]

I wish I had had a camera to take a picture of this idiot!

Me too!

[trussell]

Besides that, people kept running over his extension cords and unplugging them. ; D

[Down South P.E.]

A chemical engineer friend once told me that every time you convert one form of energy to another, due to the mechanism(s) involved, you will LOSE efficiences.

You loose energy because of the inefficieny of the energy conversion process - eg. chemical energy to mechanical energy. Different energy conversion process have different efficiencies. But because of the second law of thermodynamics they all result in a loss of energy. There is nothing you can do to prevent that (it takes energy to make energy - nothings free - except the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ).

Your typical gasoline powered car has an efficiency of less than 20%. Look at it like this: You give your car "$100 dollars" of energy and it makes use of less than $20 and throws the rest away (not unlike your teenage kids). Most of this is through wasted heat energy out the engine manifold and tailpipe.

The idea is to improve the energy conversion process so it makes use of more and throws less away. Though not feasible for other reasons, electric cars have an efficiency of 90 to 95%. Meaning they use $95 and throw only $5 to $10 away. And the reason for this is the inefficiencies in the mechanical transimissions, etc. not chemical to mechanical energy conversion.

So, If you burn gasoline to power a generator to create electricity, you are in the red, big time, in the energy efficiency pond.

This is true for the case described. If everyone had their own generators. In general hundreds of power plants are considerably more efficient at converting energy than millions of smaller generators or cars for that matter. The last numbers I saw on power plants were 35% to 40%. Also consider that there are other more efficient and/or cleaner methods of producing electriciy such as burning natural gas, nuclear, hydro, solar and wind.

The concept of an electric car is ludicrous; ...

Very true with the technology available today and probably for years to come. But consider hybrid cars with an efficiency between electic cars and conventional gasoline cars. We significantly improve energy use and reduce emissions. The technology for hybrids is here.

[farmfriend]

Rights, farms, environment ping.

Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.

[TXnMA]

Like the water-less, flushless toilet.

Had one of those out back when I was a kid; the crescent-shaped window in the door was sorta neat... '-}

[brianl703]

Do you have to take physics to get a liberal arts degree?

[brianl703]

The battery charger used to charge the batteries in the car isn't likely to be much more than 80% efficient (that is typical for a switchmode power supply). Batteries don't give back what you put into them either.

[HangThemHigh]

Your MPG calculation sounds about right, except for one possibility. I'm wondering if the generator produces enough power for the car. He may have to leave the generator rtunning when he gets to his destination to recharge the batteries. If so, the 17 mpg is way too high. LOL.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Yes, I can believe it.

Figure that an economical car needs about a minimum of about 20 hp to go 50 mph and one hp equals roughly 750 watts. Therefore he whoud need a 15 kw generator to keep it moving. That is a pretty hefty portable generator.

[Coeur de Lion]

Battery driven cars are indeed ridiculous. Another part of the transportation equation is not just the efficiency of stationary power plants and the efficiency of the conversion of electric power to mechanical. The dead weight of the vehicle has to also be taken into consideration. Vehicles which exhaust their fuel reduce there dead weigh in the course of travelling so they have additional efficiencies which battery driven vehicles which don't reduce their dead weight don't have. As a result, both hybrids and fuel cell driven vehicles are actually more efficient then battery driven vehicles.
The only reason I bring this up is that if it were not for the obsession with zero emission vehicles and the lack of understanding of basic engineering on the part of those pushing battery powered vehicles we would have never pursued that path. As you said hybrids and fuel cells(even if the hydrogen is produced from hydrocarbons) are the way to go.

[Blood of Tyrants]

A friend tells me of an eviro nut who actually believed that there would be no impact on the enviroment if everyone owned an electric car, completley ignoring the effect that 100 million cars plugged into the power grid would have.

[eldoradude]

Maybe he's in for a nasty surprise halfway up the hill to Tahoe. :^)

[Down South P.E.]

Haven't looked at battery chargers in a while. But, my point is I was just comparing car to car efficiency for a rough apples to apples comparison. We can back them all up the line. For example gasoline has to be manufactured in a refining process and that takes energy. It also has to be pumped, transported and distributed (usually through truck tankers on the highway and more than once - I use to drive these) and that takes energy. You also have to pump it into your car - more energy.

Electricty is generally a little easier to handle and distribute with the existing power grid. Overall there is less waste.

It is true that the efficiency of an overall system is the product of all the subsystem efficiencies. For example in a car that burns gasoline we have the engine efficiency, drive train efficiency, chasis efficiency, etc. all subassemblies with their own efficiencies. Multiply all these together and you get the overall efficieny of the car. The 90 to 95 % I cited relates primarily to the engines -so the overall will be a little less when you factor in drive trains, etc. But I purposely neglected distribution to get a better comparison of the vehicles themselves.