A stern judge presides as reparations fight begins

Boston Globe, MA ^ | 8/24/2003 | Lori Rotenberk

[schaketo]

CHICAGO -- The next chapter in the legal battle for slave reparations is unfolding away from the spotlight, on the 24th floor of a federal building downtown under the guidance of a veteran judge known as "No Nonsense Norgle."

Lawsuits brought by a dozen plaintiffs in six states alleging that 19 blue-chip businesses benefited from slave labor in the 19th century have been consolidated for a single trial before US District Judge Charles Norgle.

[MistrX]

Reparations = Blackmail. Whatever we do, it will never be enough for them.

[07055]

The contemporary reparations movement began in 2000 when Aetna Inc., of Hartford, issued an apology after a student at the New England School of Law uncovered the company's history of insuring the lives of slaves.

Real smart move to apologize, huh, Aetna?

[mhking]

I don't want any blood money. Loser pays would work wonders here.

Black conservative ping

If you want on (or off) of my black conservative ping list, please let me know via FREEPmail. (And no, you don't have to be black to be on the list!)

Extra warning: this is a high-volume ping list.

[07055]

"What is on trial here is whether Judge Charles Norgle has the courage to allow the facts to come out after 247 years of slavery and dehumanization,"

Gee, was there slavery in the United States once? I never knew anything about it until I heard about this lawsuit. I guess we better investigate further. Did this have anything to do with that "Civil War" I heard about once a long time ago?

[CIB-173RDABN]

The contemporary reparations movement began in 2000 when Aetna Inc., of Hartford, issued an apology after a student at the New England School of Law uncovered the company's history of insuring the lives of slaves.

---

Many companies have insurance policies on their employees (that pay the company in case of death), so why does it matter if slaves were insured?

(And I am not arguing for slavery, only pointing out that the fact that a slave was insured did nothing to harm them.)

[jonathanmo]

"The plaintiffs include a 72-year-old Chicago nurse who is the daughter of slaves"...

Let's see...born in 1931 or so....Amendment 13 in 1865...so the youngest one of her parents (assume father) could have been was 66 years old...that's quite a stretch..I wonder how many years they had to dig to find this person ONLY for the purpose of this lawsuit..

[Gringo1]

Reparations = Another money-for-nothing play.

[Thom Pain]

What exactly is the statute of limitations in this situation? Isn't there a statute of limitations even for murder?

[friendly]

Northern freedom loving Republicans fought and died battling Southern slave-owner Democrats to liberate the plantations (nothing's changed in 140 years).

Logic demands that the Democrat Party owes all the reparations, begining with the newly multi-millionaire Clintons and their DNC fiefdom.

ANTE UP BOYS!!!!!

[Brian Allen]

Peter Principle: : In any hierarchy every employee tends to rise to the level of his incompetence!

<< Real smart move to apologize, huh, Aetna? >>

Quod erat demonstrandum!

[PatrickHenry]

Isn't there a statute of limitations even for murder?

No, usually not. But when the perpetrator is long dead, the whole issue is moot. Unless you have a law that says you can punish his great-grandchildren for their ancestor's crime.

[Quix]

Her hideous heinous--Bwitch Shrillery Antoinette de Fosterizer de Marx de Kevorkian de Machiavelli de Sade et al will not be happy until they have torn every sub-atomic particle from every other sub-atomic particle formerly making up the goose that laid golden eggs.

Then they will blame the destruction on the goose and set about tearing each other's eyes and hearts out with hay hooks and their own claws.

[BenLurkin]

If this judge had ANY back-bone this case would have been thrown out on its ear long ago!

[SedVictaCatoni]

If this judge had ANY back-bone this case would have been thrown out on its ear long ago!

The defendants said that they had moved to dismiss, probably on statute of limitations and laches grounds. (I.e., it's just been too long, no matter what.)

It probably took the defendants a long time to put together their motion to dismiss, both because of coordination issues and because that's essentially their fundamental argument.

I'm willing to bet that the judge would be willing to dismiss in a heartbeat. But what he's doing is very carefully writing an opinion, which thoroughly demolishes the claims of the reparationists, and offers a model for other judges - because these people will refile and try this nonsense again in other courts - to use to dismiss these suits as well.

And opinions, especially large and important ones, take forever to write. So the judge probably wanted to throw the case out on its ear long ago, but these things take time.

[PatrickHenry]

Link to Aetna's website, which discusses the litigation and gives links to court documents. I think it's all here.
Slavery Reparations Litigation.

[1stFreedom]

The black community owes the Mexican - American community reparations for all the deportations of Mexicans in the 30's.

Beware of collective guilt. If they get reparations, I want an IMMEDIATE freezing of the reparation assets so that they can make reparations to those who were forced and fled from the US in the 1930's. If the assest aren't frozen they will be spent.

[Iscool]

Unless you have a law that says you can punish his great-grandchildren for their ancestor's crime.

And then, there has to be a crime...

[Sacajaweau]

You're correct...We are not reponsible for the debts of our ancestors.

[07055]

Not to mention that the motion was only filed a month ago. With requests for extension of time, I doubt the Plaintiffs have responded yet.

[dwd1]

The Palestinians and the Israelis
The Irish and the British
The Germans and the French
The Germans and the French
The Chinese and the Vietnamese
The Japanese and the Koreans
The Hindus and the Muslims
The Muslims and the Christians
The Turks and the Armenians
The Anglo Americans and the Native Americans
The Anglo Americans and the African Americans
The Tribes in Africa that are too numerous to name
The Jews and the Muslims
Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis


They are examples of what can happen when a cycle of pain is perpetuated.

One would think we can learn something from them and do better...

This keeps coming up a little too often... It is a little like the recall here in CA... Abusing a process but the difference is that here in CA, we really do want to get rid of the governor... I think there has to be a point where we say that it is the past but we don't have to dwell on it everyday... I think each generation of black people tends to see what the other communities have, gets angry, and perhaps someone has discovered a way to get some money out of this. I will say again that I do not want any of that money because I don't need to be paid off. I do not agree with the people that say you are not responsible for the sins of your ancestors. You owe it to us to never allow such a system to exist again. I think you have kept up your end on that issue. I think there is a responsibility to learn from the mistakes your ancestors made and try to do better. I think you are OK there too.

As I have said so many times, we owe it to each other to obey the law and give everyone a fair shot. We also owe it to each other to be as qualified and as productive as possible... That is not something that can be settled in a lawsuit... The facts concerning slavery are not in dispute... The level of responsibility is in dispute... If you look at this country and the civil rights legislation, the education, the military, the government programs, you will see that so many have taken responsibility for the past and tried to make it right...
Reparations were not meant to be used as a means of righting social injustice... There is no amount of money that can buy someone's right to enslave another. There is also no amount of money we can pay that would compensate the following generations for what they have done. I think focusing on what happened so long ago goes against everything we with the Christian Faith have been taught... "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us"



That is what our laws and the way we act toward one another publicly is about... If you look deeply at the parties that are moving forward with this suit, you are going to find persons that are feeling one of two things...Anger or fear.... All I do is tell them to read the serenity prayer... The past is not something they can change.... The way we treat one another presently and in the future...That is what we determine...
And until they accept which one is which... They are simply opening up old wounds and creating new ones.... I think Hippocrates had it right... First, do no harm...

And try not to listen to Rush Limbaugh too much. He already has enough bad things to say about you. Don't give him the satisfaction of having another reason to think the worst of us. Sean Hannity...conservative and very fair...

[RedMonqey]

I always thought the Slave OWNERS had a better case for public redress of THEIR LOST PROPERTY. After all, the federal government through the enactment of the fourteenth Amendment confiscated their rightful property without fair compensation. for it. Especially those slave holders in the states that remained loyalin the Union during the War between the States.

[pupdog]

No matter the verdict, We Won't Pay.

[Newbomb Turk]

Gee, was there slavery in the United States once?

There is today. You need look no further than your pay stub to see you are a slave to the Washington elite and your state and local politicians.

[TheAngryClam]

72-year-old Chicago nurse who is the daughter of slaves

I cry BS! 72 means she would have been born in 1930 or 1931. That means that each of her parents must have been at least 65 years old when she was born, and that assumes that the parents were born on the same day the 13th Amendment, prohibiting slavery, was ratified.

I'm SHOCKED, SHOCKED I TELL YOU that leftist racists would lie to advance their cause.

[wardaddy]

lol

[ampat]

And remember, each of these public companies is owned by stockholders, not some "building" or other "entity". The current stockholders aren't slaveowners and never have been. You can't jump generational boundaries to seek justice for a crime, e.g., I can't be tried for a crime my great grandfather committed.

[John Beresford Tipton]

"Courtroom observers have included people wearing the uniform of the..T-shirts bearing "REPARATIONS" across the front and back"

And their other T-shirts say "Prisoner"

[usadave]

Lawsuits brought by a dozen plaintiffs in six states alleging that 19 blue-chip businesses benefited from slave labor in the 19th century have been consolidated for a single trial before US District Judge Charles Norgle.

So these companies are being sued because they benefitted from a legal institution? If the plantiffs win this case, it would set a horrible legal precedent: Operate your company according to the law and get sued because of it.

[wardaddy]

Northern freedom loving Republicans fought and died battling Southern slave-owner Democrats to liberate the plantations (nothing's changed in 140 years).

Really? Looks more to me like your idea of the world has turned on it's head

Red is for Bush 2000 states...read it and weep...I know I do.

[RJL]

Lawsuits brought by a dozen plaintiffs in six states alleging that 19 blue-chip businesses benefited from slave labor

No one has made more money from slavery than Jesse Jackson, his companies and his minions, shouldn't he be included in this lawsuit as well?

[friendly]

The plantation I refer to currently is the liberal enslavement of the blacks that keeps them forever reduced to second class citizenship. Have you ever noticed how successful Black republicans tend to be?

[nightdriver]

And these plaintifs have standing because......? How many of them were slaves?

[wardaddy]

Indeed but is that because they are conservative or are they conservative because they are successful. I think it depends.

I know rural old timey blacks in the South who may vote Dem out of habit but they are as morally conservative as I am...maybe more so actually.

Paying taxes...especially if the money is hard earned...tends to wake up most people. But if they earn a huge amount or came by it easy (celebirities in particular) then they either have guilt or they never grasped the work ethic and tend to vote emotive.

An example of socially conservative rural blacks would be the ones in Mississippi who voted to keep the old flag. The rural more salt of the earth types voted to keep the old flag while the urban ones voted the same as one would expect in Cook county. Blacks went 40% overall.

[carlo3b]

"The plaintiffs include a 72-year-old Chicago nurse who is the daughter of slaves"... Let's see...born in 1931 or so....Amendment 13 in 1865...so the youngest one of her parents (assume father) could have been was 66 years old.

I'm betting she's a step daughter, or if not...someone stepped in to help the old man! ;)

[LibKill]

This is B.S.!

There are no slaves, there are no slave owners. All have been dead for many years.

As for 'reparations' we had a bloody civil war and 600,000 DIED. That's reparations enough to expunge any crime.

[17th Miss Regt]

Not now, but they are working on it. Remember, the Constitution prohibits Congress from passing ex post facto laws, but they do it anyway. It is just a matter of time...

[07055]

As Nravoter said on another thread today:

In fact forcing the rest of us to work to house, clothe, and feed you while you relax at home all day really is a--dare I say it?--plantation-type tactic.

Really makes you realize who is the master and who is the slave--and who deserves the reparations.

[King Prout]

"The real legacy of our nation's slave past is something most Americans seek to deny or repress," said Diane Sammons, a New Jersey lawyer who represents the plaintiffs. "It's not one of our proudest moments."

THE real legacy? As in, the ONE and ONLY legacy?

Am I to understand that the fact that any blacks are fortunate to be alive at all in the United States is NOT a "real" legacy of slavery?

When the "reparations" advocates demonstrate their unwavering belief that slavery was so bad -that it had nothing but bad consequences, that its legacy is uniformly evil- is so adamant and inarguable that they all kill themselves to erase that particular consequence, then and only then will I give ear to talks of reparations. Mike: BC ping.

[King Prout]

ex post facto punishment is prohibitted by the Constitution, is it not?

U.S. Constitution
Section 9
"3. No bill of attainder or ex post facto law shall be passed."

[thatdewd]

If they win, I wonder if the judge will deduct averaged housing, clothing, feeding, and medical care costs out of it, not to mention compensation for the loss of "property", and order it payed to the descendants of slaveowners. These guys better be careful, winning might put them in the hole...

[xrp]

"The plaintiffs include a 72-year-old Chicago nurse who is the daughter of slaves"...

That phrase is biased in incorrect. The way it is worded makes it sound like she was born when her parent(s) was(were) still slaves. Appropriate wording would be "the daughter of former slaves"

I bet if I dig long and hard enough, I would be able to go back in time to a place in history where one of my ancestors was enslaved or genocided. I wonder who I can file a lawsuit against. I'm half English (I think...don't really care, I'm 100% humanoid American) so maybe I could file lawsuits against Norwegian-Americans for the Viking raids on England 1000 years ago. It sure is causing me grief and holding me back.

[xrp]

It would be pretty funny if the judge in this case asked the plaintiff/prosecution to produce a witness who was held as a slave when slavery was not outlawed.

[Randjuke]

Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis

ROFL! Having personally watched those Labor Day Telethons I believe I am entitled to reparations.

[verity]

If this were a Hollywood production, the nefarious "them" would be putting out contracts on the plaintifs and their lawyers. Alas, it is not!

[sauropod]

"Courtroom observers have included people wearing the uniform of the Black Panthers and T-shirts bearing "REPARATIONS" across the front and back."

That's all i need to know. I want reparations for my ancestors that were killed in the Civil War. The Black Panthers can kiss my a**!

[hillyes]

You people have to go to fredoneverything and scroll to his opinion on reparations! He has it nailed down!

[First Amendment]

And try not to listen to Rush Limbaugh too much. He already has enough bad things to say about you.

I'm curious about what this might mean? (I understood the rest of what you said, and basically forgive and forget) Holding grudges poisons the heart.

Especially if they are grudges about what somebody else did to my ancestors.