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The Key To Immigration Is Assimilation, Not Separatism
INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY ^ | Tuesday, August 26, 2003 | SEAN HIGGINS

Posted on 08/26/2003 6:41:24 AM PDT by Isara

Victor Davis Hanson says he didn't actually want to write a book about immigration. But when his editor suggested it, he decided the issue needed to be addressed. It's the 800-pound gorilla nobody's talking about, he says.

Hanson has been a professor of classics at California State University, Fresno, since 1985 and is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution.

His most recent work is "Mexifornia: A State of Becoming." He discussed it recently with IBD.

IBD: How exactly is immigration changing California?

Hanson: It used to be done in a way that was legal and measured, and allowed the natural process of assimilation to work pretty well.

But since about 1975, the number of the people who are coming has grown. And we, the host country, have given up on assimilation and allowed separatism to occur in our schools. The result is that we are creating an amoral apartheid society.

IBD: This is a result of illegal immigration and not the legal variety?

Hanson: Yeah, it is mostly the illegal immigration. We don't know how many illegal people are in the U.S. It's somewhere between 9 and 20 million. That's the problem.

IBD: Is this a factor in the state's budget crisis?

Hanson: It is a factor. It is not the factor. The main factor is the Legislature's and the governor's mismanagement of hiring almost 50,000 new employees in five years.

But if you look at the statistics of the people who came here illegally in the last five or six years, the studies that I read say they will draw five times more in entitlements than they will contribute in taxes. That's a problem.

IBD: Will this be an issue in the recall election?

Hanson: I think it will, for a variety of reasons.

For one, we have candidates, whether it is Arnold Schwarzenegger or Arianna Huffington, who are immigrants. We have a lieutenant governor who is a Hispanic, and that will contribute to the discussion. We have a budgetary crisis that will cause people to look at how the money is spent.

And we have a governor who is radically changing his position on the issue. For example, he's vetoed driver's licenses for illegal aliens in the past. Now he's promised to sign that bill when it gets on his desk.

IBD: If the mainstream politicians don't talk about it, do you see the conditions right for a demagogue?

Hanson: I do. I'm really afraid of that. Remember, this is a citizenry that voted in the same year to eliminate affirmative action and legalize marijuana. It's a pretty volatile citizenry.

IBD: Has 9-11 changed the atmosphere regarding this issue?

Hanson: I think it has.

IBD: What does the native California Hispanic population think of this issue?

Hanson: I think they're torn. On the one hand, some of our finest citizens are Mexican-American. They came, or their parents came, legally. They're taxpayers. So they have the same concerns as everybody else.

On the other hand, some of them realize a special pride in their heritage. They are very sensitive to people who call for reform because they think it might be directed at them when it is not.

IBD: Is assimilation in fact occurring?

Hanson: It is. I make that clear in my book. There is a powerful engine for that in popular culture, whether it is the Williams sisters or Tiger Woods or Jennifer Lopez. People of all different races are intermarrying. They have the same taste in television and in movies.

But the schools are promoting a multicultural separatist ideology — whether it's bilingual education or separate graduation ceremonies. We are in a race between the powers of assimilation and the powers of separatism.

That is the issue at the heart of it. We just need people to come in from Mexico in a little smaller numbers and through a legal process, so we can assimilate them legally.

IBD: Many free-market economists say the benefits of mass immigration outweigh the costs. What do you think?

Hanson: One thing I've noticed is that each side tries to produce statistics that refute the other. It's hard to adjudicate which body of evidence is correct.

My feeling is that the contribution of unskilled labor to the overall GDP of the U.S. is rather small. But it's very important to localized sectors like restaurants, building and agriculture within the Southwest.

It's a sad commentary on California when you have a 9% unemployment rate in many counties and the employers are saying nobody will work and they have to bring in people from Mexico.

IBD: Given the length of the U.S.-Mexican border and the countries' economic differences, is a restrictive immigration policy even possible?

Hanson: This is a relatively recent phenomenon. Prior to 1970, nobody was talking about militarizing the border. Not in 1940 or 1930 or 1900. That's because there wasn't this alternate world of jurisprudence that protected people, both those who were hired illegally and worked illegally.

IBD: So this is primarily a matter of changing the political process?

Hanson: It has to start with a dialogue. Those on the open borders-corporate-libertarian side have precluded debate by demonizing people as nativist, protectionist or Neanderthal. They work hand in glove with the racial left, which demonizes people as racist. Between the two, they have precluded almost all debate on it.

IBD: Do we need stuff like English-only laws?

Hanson: We've never needed them before. We just need to revert back to what we used to do: encourage them to learn English.

IBD: Is the situation in California different from other states that border Mexico?

Hanson: It is. One is that because California has a much larger population and a much greater economy, it is the entry of choice.

Two, there is a perception among the people from Mexico that the percentage of Californians who are of Mexican background is larger and the political climate is much more liberal and laid back. Therefore there is a much greater chance of things like amnesty or driver's licenses in California than in, say, Texas.

IBD: Suppose illegal immigration were curtailed and growers couldn't get this cheaper labor. Would that have any negative economic consequences?

Hanson: I think in the short term it surely would. We would go back the situation in the '60s and early '70s. Back then, there was a drive for mechanization. The other thing was we had a strong union movement.

Now I could take you to the malls of Fresno and show you 5,000 to 10,000 people on a weekday morning doing nothing when the farm bureau says we are short 6,000 to 7,000 workers for the harvest.

There's a logic there that would work. It just requires a little short-term pain.

IBD: Any final thoughts?

Hanson: I really think this is a moral issue. It is very amoral for Californians to use an entire population and keep it in the shadows to do all of the work they don't want to do and then never talk about it.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: assimilation; hispanic; immigrants; immigration; mexifornia; separatism; victordavishanson
What this article lacks is a resolution to deal with illegal immigrants. How are we going to assimilate them to the society? Maybe, as he said, It has to start with a dialogue.
1 posted on 08/26/2003 6:41:24 AM PDT by Isara
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To: Isara
This part is very interesting.

Is the situation in California different from other states that border Mexico?

Hanson: It is. One is that because California has a much larger population and a much greater economy, it is the entry of choice.

Two, there is a perception among the people from Mexico that the percentage of Californians who are of Mexican background is larger and the political climate is much more liberal and laid back. Therefore there is a much greater chance of things like amnesty or driver's licenses in California than in, say, Texas.

And California is a welfare state.

2 posted on 08/26/2003 6:47:18 AM PDT by Isara
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To: Isara
"And we, the host country, have given up on assimilation and allowed separatism to occur in our schools. The result is that we are creating an amoral apartheid society."

Gee, you mean the liberal, politically correct, touchy feely approach of Spanish taught classes and Spanish language everything hasn't worked??

Versus what happened with prior immigrants - you learned English and how this country worked to succeed. Instead we have developed a permanent uneducated, non-English speaking welfare class.
3 posted on 08/26/2003 6:55:59 AM PDT by txzman (Jer 23:29)
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To: Isara
"Remember, this is a citizenry that voted in the same year to eliminate affirmative action and legalize marijuana. It's a pretty volatile citizenry."

VDH is the greatest, but I don't understand his comment here. Seems to me that both positions are based on individual liberty and personal accountability. It's how I'd vote. Affirmative action gives special privileges to people for their group identity. Medical marijuana laws turn responsibility over to the individual for their own medical treatment. Same thing in my book.

4 posted on 08/26/2003 6:57:08 AM PDT by Jabba the Nutt
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To: Isara
How are we going to assimilate them to the society?

1) Eliminate foreign languages from government service bureaus - and translators too. You want service? Speak English.

2) Provide English classes at government expense, day and night. Provide free transportation to and from class. They should be designed to bring fluency and the ability to read and write in the shortest possible time.

3) Eliminate "anchor babies". Being born in the US of illegal parents should not confer citizenship.

4) Eliminate welfare. Freebies should not be the attraction. Hardworking folks, responsible folks, are those who will assimilate the easiest. Parasites "yearning to eat free" will not.

5) Eliminate bilingual & english as a second language programs immediately. Immersion works, they do not.

6) Wage a propaganda war. "Aztlan" and similar garbage should be denounced as racist and un-American.

5 posted on 08/26/2003 7:05:50 AM PDT by jimt
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To: Jabba the Nutt
What?
6 posted on 08/26/2003 7:05:53 AM PDT by old school
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To: old school
This is so true. You cannot take full part in the opportunities of a society unless you are fully a member of it.
7 posted on 08/26/2003 7:07:39 AM PDT by scottlang
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To: jimt
What should we do with illegal immigrants who are in this country now? Any idea? Get rid of welfare programs for a start?
8 posted on 08/26/2003 7:15:47 AM PDT by Isara
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To: HiJinx
ping
9 posted on 08/26/2003 7:21:10 AM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Ideas have consequences)
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To: Isara
Every article I have seen written by Hanson, or about what Hanson has to say, posted here begins with a tribute and biographical sketch of Hanson. The self-serving approach is beginning to detract from Hanson's writings.
10 posted on 08/26/2003 7:23:53 AM PDT by Rudder
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: Isara
Get rid of welfare programs for a start?

That's number two. First deport those who're here illegally.

The welfare issue is major problem with immigration. I want people who want to work and be independent to come here. I don't want people who tolerate (or engage in) corruption, or those who want to get every possible bennie they can apply for. We're getting way too many of the latter. When I see a woman driving a nearly new Caddy dropping off her three kids for "free breakfast", it makes me very angry.

12 posted on 08/26/2003 7:30:25 AM PDT by jimt
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To: ExGuru
When you suggest elimination of "anchor babies," you are calling for a Constitutional amendment. Fat chance.

From the 14th Amendment, Section 1 (emphasis mine).

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

I think it could be easily argued that those who come here illegally have not made themselves "subject to the jurisdiction thereof", and thereby their offspring are no more citizens than they are.

I'd dearly love to see it tried. Anchor babies are anathema.

13 posted on 08/26/2003 7:40:50 AM PDT by jimt
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To: Isara
What is really sad is that conservatives and republicans are screaming to our leaders to fix the illegal alien problem, and we are told to shut up or go away. We've got RINOs that only listen to big business or are afraid of the liberal media to do anything substantiative. I wish we had more Tancredos.
14 posted on 08/26/2003 7:59:19 AM PDT by sasafras (sasafras (The road to hell is paved with good intentions))
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To: Isara; Imagine
(COPY AND DISTRIBUTE WIDELY. Revise and extend as you see fit, start a movement, print a petition, start a political party, confront your legislators, write letters, post posters, drop leaflets, demand, demand, demand…)

18 POINT ACTION PLAN: Border Violators

1) Close all US borders to illegal entry forthwith by any and all means possible, including military presence.

2) Maintain legitimate immigration levels at modest annual level with requirements that immigrants be employable or sufficiently wealthy for self-support if they do not intend to work, proficient in basic English and willing to be assimilated into American culture and language. All applicants shall provide prints, photos and DNA samples.

3) Legal immigration shall be awarded to individuals on a lottery basis, wherein all countries are given equal status in the immigration lottery, without regards to color or economic plight of originating nation.

4) Individuals of Islamic faith (muslims) from any country shall be denied immigration privileges or entry into the US. Christians and Jews from muslim countries fleeing religious persecution shall receive preferential and accelerated immigration privileges.

5) Detain all border violators, taking photos, prints and DNA samples of said violator while at the same time, checking for out standing warrants. If no warrants are outstanding, return border violators to home country within 20 days via commercial airline and submit cost of such action, including processing and housing costs for said violator, to country of origin. If costs are not paid within 30 days, reduce any and all aid to said country by a like amount.

6) Should any country from which a border violator originates not currently receive any aid from the US, the Justice Department shall be authorized to seize or secure liens on assets owned, managed or registered to that country to the full extent of the obligation.

7) Establish new Guest Worker Visa (GWV) category, renewable every six (6) months, for unskilled labor positions wherein all applicants shall provide prints, photos and DNA samples. Work permitted of such applicants shall be limited to one of several categories, including childcare, lawn/gardening, restaurant staff, cleaning, and the like. Families of GWV workers are not permitted to enter US, nor will the birth of a child to one of GWV status confer citizenship to either parent or child.

8) Any violation of civil or criminal laws shall result in the forfeiture of the GWV and immediate return to originating country.

9) GWV holders shall be prohibited from claiming unemployment benefits, welfare support or free medical service.

10) The originating country of all GWV holders shall be responsible for any uninsured loss caused by the GWV, including emergency medical claims and/or claims resulting from illegal actions committed while in the US.

11) Companies who hire GWV holders shall submit to the Immigration Dept the name and GWV number of that individual, along with a description of employment tasks. Companies shall be subject to fines and penalty that fail to report employment of GWV workers, or hire border violators. GWV workers shall be paid with check, having income tax withheld. GWV workers shall not be subject to unemployment tax because they are not eligible to receive unemployment compensation.

12) Border violators, or any non-citizen not possessing a valid visa, detained by local police for any reason shall be turned over to border control officials for immediate deportation action, except if they face criminal charges in other jurisdictions.

13) Border violators and GWV workers shall be prohibited from voting in local, state and federal elections.

14) Border Violators shall NOT be afforded the rights enjoyed by American citizens, as guaranteed under the constitution.

15) Public education (at institutions supported by taxpayer dollars) at any level (pre-school, kindergarten through the university level,) shall NOT be available to Border Violators (or children of Border Violators) and schools that enroll such individuals shall be subject to penalties.

16) Foreign Students (F/S) (individuals admitted to the U.S. for the purpose of attending any educational facility,) private institution or public (i.e. supported by taxpayer dollars,) must have valid student visas, such visas being in force only if the F/S attends school full-time. F/S shall be required to pay tuition, housing and related costs such that all their educational costs are fully reimbursed to the institution attended. The originating country shall pay for any and all loss caused by students while on U.S. soil.

17) Border Violators seeking emergency medical treatment shall provide pictures, fingerprints and DNA samples along with country of origin, and shall be treated then incarcerated until information provided can be verified. Originating country shall bear the costs of medical treatment and confinement.

18) Children born in the U.S. to border violators, illegal aliens or of foreign nationals in the U.S. for any reason (including temporary visitor, school or work visas,) shall not be eligible for citizenship as circumstances of birth, nor shall the parents or parent’s family members (relatives) be conferred U.S. citizenship as a result of such births.
15 posted on 08/26/2003 8:51:30 AM PDT by HiJinx (The Right person, at the Right place...)
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To: 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4.1O dana super trac pak; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; A CA Guy; ...
Bump-Ping!!!
The Border List TM

Freepmail me if you wish to be removed from or added to this list!

16 posted on 08/26/2003 8:53:15 AM PDT by HiJinx (The Right person, at the Right place...)
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To: jimt
WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

They are subject to the jurisdiction of their HOME countries.
17 posted on 08/26/2003 8:59:31 AM PDT by moehoward
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To: HiJinx
The illegals and the ass kissing politicians don't want assimulation, they expect us to come down and change our country into the turd world hellhole they came from.

Rather than come and better themselves and become Americans we're supposed to cater to them. They don't want to learn our language and customs we're supposed to learn theirs.
18 posted on 08/26/2003 9:05:15 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Oregon - Where the Legislature keeps writing checks the taxpayers can't cover.)
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To: SAMWolf
I see what's happening in Alabama and wonder if a sea change isn't occurring.

The people who line up on the right side of the line have gone to court to 'complain' about their freedom of speech being abridged. Since we can't seem to get anywhere in the legislature, maybe it's time we turned the weapon of the people who line up on the left side against them.

Many people feel that the Court is the final arbiter of the law of the land...if that's so, why not use the Court to advance our agenda? The Legislature won't. The Executive won't. The silent have begun to speak where it matters.
19 posted on 08/26/2003 9:11:41 AM PDT by HiJinx (The Right person, at the Right place, at the Right time...)
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To: Isara
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.
20 posted on 08/26/2003 9:14:21 AM PDT by ItsTheMediaStupid
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To: jimt
Great points throughout your comments on this thread. Thanks.

Pretty much spot on from my perspective.

If we do not, as a people, begin moving in those directions soon...there is going to be hell to pay. In many areas, there already is.

We need immigrants in out country...legal, hardworking immigrants who come here to work, become Americans and adopt our values and moral standards that allow for freedom. We always have...it is how we started...it continually refreshes us and builds our strength.

But we do not need those coming looking for a handout, or leeches...or worse. The current system and lack of inforcement of legal immigration practise literally invites the latter in.

I am afraid that unless we get control of this soon, we will be voerwhelmed by all of those negatives and it will lead to very bad places.

21 posted on 08/26/2003 9:17:09 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: HiJinx
I trust the courts even less than the Legislature. I believe only Civil Disobedience (or worse) on a masssive scale is going to change things. The politicians, courts and bureaucrats don't care about the majority anymore.
22 posted on 08/26/2003 9:18:30 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Oregon - Where the Legislature keeps writing checks the taxpayers can't cover.)
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To: SAMWolf
Well, that takes me back to Charlton Heston's speech about the second civil war...

Rather noteworthy that a man who was there in the infant stages of the formation of the ACLU became president of the NRA and an outspoken opponent of what the ACLU now stands for 30-40 years later.
23 posted on 08/26/2003 9:28:50 AM PDT by HiJinx (The Right person, at the Right place, at the Right time...)
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To: Isara
Assimilation … of course. When my grandfather arrived in 1902, he was part of a thirty million man mass of legal immigrants. Even though they arrived over a 25 year period, it required another generation in order for their families to become assimilated- and that was a legal, orderly immigration where assimilation was desired! Imagine how difficult will be the assimilation of 20 million illegals who don’t give a damn about assimilation, and have plenty of native support for that separatist attitude.
24 posted on 08/26/2003 9:50:48 AM PDT by bimbo
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To: txzman
Instead we have developed a permanent uneducated, non-English speaking welfare class.who are likely Democrat voters.
25 posted on 08/26/2003 9:53:21 AM PDT by bimbo
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To: HiJinx
He was also there for the beginning of the Civil Rights movement, before it was hijacked and corrupted by the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, etc.
26 posted on 08/26/2003 9:55:31 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Oregon - Where the Legislature keeps writing checks the taxpayers can't cover.)
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To: jimt
Excellent post!
27 posted on 08/26/2003 9:57:14 AM PDT by ampat
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To: jimt; ExGuru
There is no need for a Constitutional amendment to prevent aliens subject to the jurisdiction of their home countries from being given U.S. citizenship illegally (which is the current de facto state of affairs). It requires only Congressional action. Before he retired from the Congress, Rep. Bob Stump from Arizona had introduced just such a billclarifying the language of the 14th in regards to those born here to aliens illegally in the country.

To change the entire situation requires only the will of the Congress. Now you know who to blame, since it hasn't changed.

28 posted on 08/26/2003 10:09:16 AM PDT by Regulator (Good Morning From Occupied Aztlan)
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To: Jeff Head
We need immigrants in out country...legal, hardworking immigrants who come here to work, become Americans and adopt our values and moral standards that allow for freedom. We always have...it is how we started...it continually refreshes us and builds our strength

Uh, no we don't. We need to stop telling Americans that they are "overpopulating" the country, so go get an abortion, little girl.

If abortion and the destruction of the family at the hands of the cultural Marxists had been defeated, the United States would have grown to its present population without the need for immigration.

29 posted on 08/26/2003 10:30:29 AM PDT by Regulator (Good Morning From Occupied Aztlan)
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To: diotima
Ping!

30 posted on 08/26/2003 12:47:42 PM PDT by AnnaZ (:: http://www.radiofreerepublic.com :: Hi-Fi FReepin' ::)
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To: Regulator
You completely misunderstood my comments.

It was not my intent to say we need immigrants as a population issue. We've had five children ourselves, who are now producing their own. As long as moral minded Americans continue to marry in the traditional sense and raise good families, we will be in a position to addreess any population issues per sey (as in having enough).

But, immigrants, of the hard-working, God-fearing, I-want-to-be-an-American variety help keep us renewed and help fuel our free enterprize and ingenuity engines like our own immigrant fathers have done from the start. Our immigration policy must be one that finds and rewards the type of immigrants I initially spoke of...and dissuades the latter variety...and then deports the illegals who try to come in anyway.

Of the two ills, abortion and out of control illegal entry...abortion is the worst, because it strikes at the heart and very foundation of our liberty. Both must be corrected. Both are destroying our nation.

Jeff

31 posted on 08/26/2003 2:13:18 PM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: SAMWolf
BTTT because I just got back from the ER.
32 posted on 08/26/2003 6:07:55 PM PDT by 4.1O dana super trac pak (Stop the open borders death cult)
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak
Hi 4.1O dana super trac pak. All is well, I hope.
33 posted on 08/26/2003 6:09:45 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Oregon - Where the Legislature keeps writing checks the taxpayers can't cover.)
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To: SAMWolf
My brother, slight allergic reaction to a prescription. No problem but I'll never go back, I needed stitches 10 years ago, in and out, this time you could have dropped dead, and I'm sure it had nothing to do ith all the people speaking Spanish, none of hom seemed to be having an emergency.(90 percent of the aiting room) OK I'm done venting and the keyboards acting up.
34 posted on 08/26/2003 6:20:29 PM PDT by 4.1O dana super trac pak (Stop the open borders death cult)
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak
Glad to hear it turned out OK.

I've had to take the kids into the ER a few times, it alwasy seems that I'm in a foriegn country and while I get grilled about Insurance others just seem to go right in without the paperwork hassles.
35 posted on 08/26/2003 6:52:12 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Oregon - Where the Legislature keeps writing checks the taxpayers can't cover.)
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To: Jeff Head
We need immigrants in out country...legal, hardworking immigrants who come here to work, become Americans and adopt our values and moral standards that allow for freedom.

42% of hispanic births are now to unwed mother and welfare rates along the Mexican border are 50% in many counties. I don't distinguish too much between legal and illegal --- because here all it takes is to make it over the border to give birth, apply for welfare and the baby is legal, the mother gets to stay being the relative of a US citizen. These kinds have no intentions of ever working in this country and their kids end up on the streets and in gangs. I'll take the hard-working illegals who leave their kids back in Mexico any day over the moochers that bring their kids here for the US taxpayer to provide for. Education and health care are far cheaper for Mexicans in Mexico.

36 posted on 08/26/2003 6:59:59 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: Isara
What should we do with illegal immigrants who are in this country now? Any idea? Get rid of welfare programs for a start?

The very first thing we should do is end dual citizenship where people are proud Mexican citizens and waving their flag but able to collect welfare because of obtaining US citizenship. President Fox envisions a USA where there are large colonies of his citizens still patriotic to Mexico and with Mexican elections being held here also but who can access any American welfare or education program.

37 posted on 08/26/2003 7:07:58 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: Jeff Head
"We need immigrants in out country...legal, hardworking immigrants who come here to work, become Americans and adopt our values and moral standards that allow for freedom. We always have...it is how we started...it continually refreshes us and builds our strength."

America cannot continue to absorb an increasing number of immigrants year after year after year. There comes a point where we are maxed out, where we cannot assimilate any more immigrants.

If we fail to heed this truth, then American culture, along with the English language in America, will cease to exist.

I work in a city in New Jersey, and already I cannot find anyone who speaks English for blocks and blocks on end. They are nearly all Hispanic, from Guatamala, Mexico, etc., living 12 people to a house, nearly all illegal.

Police have to hire special translators just to handle all the crime, and it's no secret that there is an extraordinarily high crime rate in those neighborhoods.

While we may need some minimal immigrant influx, we certainly don't need to be flooded.

My philosphy is live and let live, but I dont want my children and grandchildren having to fight a revolution when the militant immigrant population gets so big, it wants to take over control.

38 posted on 08/26/2003 8:25:59 PM PDT by Edit35
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To: Jeff Head
But, immigrants, of the hard-working, God-fearing, I-want-to-be-an-American variety help keep us renewed and help fuel our free enterprize and ingenuity engines like our own immigrant fathers

I understood completely. I just threw in the population control angle because it is one of the major reasons that there was a "birth dearth" in the late 70's and 80's among the native born. Remember all that idiocy?

As far as needing immigrants for metaphysical reasons like "refreshing us"? Nonsense. The immigrants coming now add nothing. They came to a country already built, already the dominant nation on the planet. They are quite simply the most undeserving, luckiest human beings who ever lived, because they walked into paradise uninvited, a paradise that they and their families had NOTHING to do with (except for hating us, usually). And they are twisting that paradise, and changing it, to something ugly and divisive.

Crap. Immigration should have stayed ended in 1924. It has only been the incessant, tenacious gnawing of rats like Kennedy, Immanuel Cellar, Phil Hart et al who have torn down the walls and admitted those who have come and live here in silent contempt of us, and long to displace us out of their contempt. Think I don't know what I'm talking about? I live in the most immigrant heavy areas of the country. I talk and work with them every day. Even the ones who are predisposed to liking the place speak endlessly of discrimination, how America was all about slavery, how America denied everyone's rights, how we never should have taken the West, and on and on and on and on. It is NAUSEATING. Why they don't pack and leave, I don't know. But one thing I do know. There's nothing "refreshing" about them. More like fatiguing.

And as far as "immigrant fathers", I wouldn't know. Its been 10 generations since we had those; a lot has happened since then. For me, the "old country" is Nebraska and Indiana. Even further back, and it's North Carolina, and the original settlements on the Yadkin. Do a Google on "Regulator" and "Alamance" and maybe you can read about my "fathers".

They weren't "immigrants" even then. They were already Americans. For them, Europe was GONE. At that point, 60 years gone.

39 posted on 08/26/2003 10:26:21 PM PDT by Regulator (We're not a "nation of immigrants", We're a nation of Americans!!!)
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To: Regulator
We disagree. I have no problem with hard working, God fearing, legal immigrants who want to come here and be Americans and add to our society.

I loath and detest the moochers and am sick of our politicians catering to the illegals as much as anyone...that HAS to stop. We are being invaded by those types...not the other.

40 posted on 08/26/2003 10:34:59 PM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: dyno35
I work in a city in New Jersey, and already I cannot find anyone who speaks English for blocks and blocks on end. They are nearly all Hispanic, from Guatamala, Mexico, etc., living 12 people to a house, nearly all illegal

And I can show you an entire TOWN in California where the Mexican flag flies over the main street every day, and Mexican nationals (or rather "illegals", to be un-PC) are the OVERWHELMING majority (like, 85%). Five miles from the beach, and 500 miles north of the Mexican border.

Your children fight a revolution when the foreigners try to take over? Hell, you'll probably be around to watch if things continue the way they are.

No "nation" has ever been inundated this way in this short of a time and remained a "nation"!

41 posted on 08/26/2003 10:40:57 PM PDT by Regulator (Screw Vicente Fox and the Entire Mexican "Government" ( = Thug Gang ))
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To: Jeff Head
See #41 for a little background on my...ahem...intensity. I'd like to feel differently, and I did 15 years ago, but the last decade or so has radicalized me.
42 posted on 08/26/2003 10:48:46 PM PDT by Regulator
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To: Regulator
I agree with what you are saying. If it does not change...and soon...we will be fighting a war against the illegals and their abettors to retain our freedom. I do not think it is an accident of history that it is happening. It is a willful act, on the part of many in our own government and amongst us, of treachory and treason.

When that time comes, you can bet that 99% of the legal immigrants, who came here to enjoy the very liberty, freedom and way of life we are losing, will be fighting right next to us. And I for one will be glad they are there.

I have written about the same, in a fictional sense, HERE

43 posted on 08/27/2003 5:43:20 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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