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BIRCH SOCIETY IS NOT AN ACCURATE SOURCE OF INFO
Ernieinps@aol.com

Posted on 08/26/2003 9:13:14 AM PDT by Ernie.cal

The John Birch Society has long been our country's premier purveyor of conspiratorial interpretations of past history and current events. This posting is devoted to discussing some details from FBI files which speak to the unreliability and inaccuracy of JBS data and conclusions.

In 1964, FBI Director Hoover stated that he "had little respect for Robert Welch" (founder and leader of the the Birch Society) because of Welch's defamatory comments about President Eisenhower, the Dulles brothers, Chief Justice Warren, and others. He referred to Welch and the Birch Society as "extremist" and "irresponsible".

Also see Hoover's testimony (copied below) before the Warren Commission (Volume V, page 97) when he was asked about an article on JFK's assassination that was published in the JBS magazine, American Opinion:

"Mr. Hoover: I have read that piece. My comment on it is this in general: I think the extreme right is just as much a danger to the freedom of this country as the extreme left. There are groups, organizations, and individuals on the extreme right who make these very violent statements, allegations that General Eisenhower was a Communist, disparaging references to the Chief Justice and at the other end of the spectrum you have these leftists who make wild statements charging almost anybody with being a Fascist or belonging to some of these so-called extreme right societies. Now, I have felt, and I have said publicly in speeches, that they are just as much a danger, at either end of the spectrum. They don't deal with facts. Anybody who will allege that General Eisenhower was a Communist agent, has something wrong with him. A lot of people read such allegations because I get some of the weirdest letters wanting to know whether we have inquired to find out whether that is true. I have known General Eisenhower quite well myself and I have found him to be a sound, level-headed man."

Bureau documents make it clear that, on numerous matters, the FBI thought that the Birch Society was not only wrong on substance, it also injured our society by its reckless and venomous attacks.

Here is one example:

Robert Welch and the JBS referred to author Harry A. Overstreet as a Communist sympathizer or dupe and they denounced Harry's 1958 book "What We Must Know About Communism" as being designed to insure that we did nothing effective against the Communist conspiracy. (See October 1959 Edward Janisch article in Birch magazine American Opinion which was entitled, "What We Must Know About Overstreet" for an example of how the JBS attacked and vilified a loyal American.)

In subsequent years, Welch described his campaign against Harry Overstreet as one of the Birch Society's greatest accomplishments.

What Welch did not know however, is that the FBI assisted Overstreet in writing this book! In fact, internal FBI documents refer to the book as being a useful supplement to J. Edgar Hoover's book "Masters of Deceit" and the FBI asked the American Legion to add the Overstreet book to its recommended reading list (which it did). In a letter to the Director of the Americanism Commission of the Legion, FBI Assistant Director C.D. DeLoach said: "We agree that it is a good one and would you please put it on your approved list."

In October 1958 the Bureau prepared a formal review of the Overstreet book. It was described as a welcome "new aid" in combatting the Communist menace. Quoting from the review memo:

"This new book presents cogent advice to the thinking public. It reflects ideas common to the thinking which has gone on in the Bureau for many years."

FBI Director Hoover told the Attorney General that it "would be a good idea (to) encourage everyone in the Justice Department to read it" and he remarked that he was disappointed that reviews of the book had been cool.

The controversy over Overstreet and his book continued for years due, largely, to the JBS smear campaign against him which took the form of attempting to get Harry's speaking engagements around the country cancelled due to his alleged pro-Communist sympathies or planting hostile questioners in his audiences.

At one point Harry's wife Bonaro wrote to their primary contact within the Bureau (Lou Nichols) to express their frustration and anger at being attacked in Texas by American Legion representatives. Nichols and the Bureau's liaison to the Legion (Asst Director C.D. DeLoach) contacted officials of the American Legion to set the record straight about Harry and his wife, whereupon attacks by Legioneers stopped.

In February 1961 J. Edgar Hoover responded to an inquiry about the Overstreet book. The Bureau file copy has the following notation: "We have had cordial relations with Dr. and Mrs. Harry Allen Overstreet and have furnished them considerable assistance in connection with their books."

The Bureau subsequently assisted Harry with other books that he wrote, including: "The Strange Tactics of Extremism" (1964) and "The FBI In Our Open Society" (1969). In "Strange Tactics" Harry devoted a chapter to former FBI agent (and Birch supporter) Dan Smoot. Harry dissected falsehoods that Smoot published in his newsletter, Dan Smoot Reports.

FBI Assistant Director DeLoach prepared a review of "Strange Tactics" and he specifically applauded Harry's discussion of Smoot because the Bureau thought Smoot was propagating extreme rightwing viewpoints and was wrongly capitalizing on his former association with the Bureau to inflate his credibility.

Smoot, along with Fred Schwarz (Christian Anti-Communism Crusade), Billy James Hargis (Christian Crusade), and Edgar Bundy (Church League of America), were often described sarcastically in Bureau memos as "professional anti-Communists."

Incidentally, Harry Overstreet probably belongs in the Guiness Book of Records since he would be the only alleged Communist sympathizer ever to author a highly commendatory review of J. Edgar Hoover's 1958 book "Masters of Deceit" which appeared in the June 1958 issue of National Parent-Teacher (national PTA magazine). Upon learning about it, J. Edgar Hoover sent Harry a thank-you note.

When Harry died in 1970, Hoover sent a condolence telegram to his wife, Bonaro. It praised Harry's "many contributions" to the fight against Communism and offered deepest sympathies from "his many friends at the Bureau".

Robert Morris, the former Chief Counsel of the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee, had a close personal relationship with the Overstreets. Morris wrote to me in March 1989 about the Overstreets. Here is an excerpt:

"I did know Harry and Bonaro Overstreet in the late 1950s and 1960s. They were introduced to me by Louis Nichols when he was Assistant Director of the FBI. They were most helpful to me in my capacity of Chief Counsel to the U.S. Senate Internal Security Subcommittee...They became my friends and I am still grateful for their friendship."

Former FBI Security Informant Herbert Philbrick of "I Led 3 Lives" fame, and the California Senate Factfinding Subcommittee on UnAmerican Activities both referred to Harry Overstreet as an expert with extensive knowledge about how to fight Communism.

This is merely one example of how the Birch Society did enormous damage to our country by impugning the integrity and loyalty of Americans who did not share their warped viewpoints.

Anyone interested in further details about Overstreet or the FBI's negative evaluations about Robert Welch and The John Birch Society, feel free to contact me at: ernieinps@aol.com


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anticommunism; birch; bircher; birchsociety; catholiclist; conspiracy; conspiracytheories; fbi; jbs; johnbirch; johnbirchsociety; johnmcmanus; newamerican; thenewamerican; williamfjasper
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1 posted on 08/26/2003 9:13:15 AM PDT by Ernie.cal
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To: Ernie.cal
the JBS mentality is about as close to the terrorist state of mind as any islamic terrorist group!...a bunch of catholic and jew hating whackos!
2 posted on 08/26/2003 9:16:57 AM PDT by rrrod
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To: Ernie.cal
In general, when I read the New American, it contains information that i have seen elsewhere from independent sources.

I cannot speak to the period of time you cite, but anything over the last few years or so, in the issues that I have perused, is accurate (as far as I am able to determine).

3 posted on 08/26/2003 9:18:48 AM PDT by sauropod
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To: rrrod
Fred Koch, founder of Koch Industries, funded Robert Welch's creation of the JBS.
4 posted on 08/26/2003 9:19:47 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
thanks for the post..i believe i had read that once or heard it ..
5 posted on 08/26/2003 9:22:18 AM PDT by rrrod
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To: Ernie.cal
I'm still waiting for the million or so Chicom troops which the JBS in the '50s insisted were massing just over the Mexican border to invade.

The must be getting a bit long in the tooth by now.

How does one orchestrate an infantry assault when the troops can't to get around without canes and walkers?

6 posted on 08/26/2003 9:26:33 AM PDT by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: Ernie.cal
Growing up in that era, I found a lot of what the JBS said to be true. We're seeing now some of the things they talked about come to pass. Government control over states, Government interfering with land use planning, religion forced out of schools and government buildings, and more.Kooks to some, true. Visionaries to others, also true.
7 posted on 08/26/2003 9:28:08 AM PDT by bedolido (Quitters Never Win! Winners Never Quit! But those who never win and never quit are idiots!)
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To: Ernie.cal
You say, "The Birch Society is not an accurate source of info."

Well, Duh.

Name an "accurate source of info". I've searched the world over and not found one. All are a mixture of truth, half truth, and lies. And all often enough stupid in that they insult the intelligence of the reader.

My hobby is intelligence analysis, propaganda analysis, and human stupidity analysis. The world is my playpen.

8 posted on 08/26/2003 9:35:30 AM PDT by Iris7 ("..the Eternal Thompson Gunner.." - Zevon)
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To: Ernie.cal
Let's see, the FBI, which barbequed 80 some people at Waco and murdered the Idaho wife, and lied and covered up the whole time, has said through J. Edgar that the JBS is not to be trusted? Did Hoover say this before or after he denied the existence of the Mafia? You're an idiot.
9 posted on 08/26/2003 9:35:47 AM PDT by Charlesj (Ed Harris not worth another look)
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To: Charlesj
jbs= ALL ARAB MEDIA...
10 posted on 08/26/2003 9:37:15 AM PDT by rrrod
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To: quidnunc; hchutch
That damn rumor has been around since the 19-blankety-blanking-50s?

Good grief. The whacko right needs to get some new bogeymen.

11 posted on 08/26/2003 9:40:06 AM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: Ernie.cal
the hell you say. ;-)
12 posted on 08/26/2003 9:42:04 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat (I'm so glad to no longer be associated with the Party of Dependence on Government!)
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To: sauropod; rrrod
My observations echo your own, sauropod. The New American does indeed give perspectives that are quite unadulterated, with details and analysis that the mass media purposefully ignores. Their insights are indeed quite often prophetic. And what they see in the future is dark indeed.

As for your statements, rrrod, besides the ad hominem attacks, do you have anything factual to back up your assertations? Where you get your ideas from? Certainly not from what the JBS publishes, something that can be readily proven by simply reading their publications.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

13 posted on 08/26/2003 9:42:56 AM PDT by Joe Brower ("Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe." - H.G. Wells)
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To: *Conspiracy
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list
14 posted on 08/26/2003 9:43:30 AM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Ideas have consequences)
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To: Ernie.cal; Charlesj
"I have known General Eisenhower quite well myself and I have found him to be a sound, level-headed man."

Suggested reading:

The Politician by R. Welch.

FMCDH

15 posted on 08/26/2003 9:49:32 AM PDT by nothingnew (The pendulum is swinging and the Rats are in the pit!)
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To: Joe Brower
Bump and see my #15.

FMCDH

16 posted on 08/26/2003 9:51:34 AM PDT by nothingnew (The pendulum is swinging and the Rats are in the pit!)
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To: Poohbah; BlueLancer; dighton; general_re; Texas_Dawg; Catspaw
delighted ping
17 posted on 08/26/2003 9:53:20 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (This is the fault of outsourcing, offshoring, immigration and PC. We're all doomed.)
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To: rrrod; ninenot; sittnick
I am not now and never was a member of the JBS, nor do I subscribe to many JBS eccentric notions. I would like to interrupt your fantasy that the JBS was anti-Catholic on the basis of simple justice.

We may start with the fact that Robert Welch, a devout Baptist until quite late in his life, converted to Roman Catholicism before his death as did his wife. There was a Roman Catholic priest from Bridgeport and later from Monroe, Connecticut, Fr. Francis Fenton who had long served as a JBS National Council member. A major hero of the society was the late Senator Joseph R. McCarthy who was quite Catholic. The JBS in-house publisher Western Islands Press published books against communism by Richard Cardinal Cushing of Boston. The famous novelist on religious themes Taylor Caldwell was a long time member of the JBS Council as well. See her novel Captains and Kings for most JBS theories. A very substantial percentage of JBS folks are Catholic.

If I were more familiar with JBS, I suspect that one could do a similar rendition as to Jews close to Welch and active in the JBS.

Can you recite one, just ONE instance of terrorism perpetrated by the JBS in its entire near 50-year existence? I didn't think so. You owe an apology.

18 posted on 08/26/2003 9:55:13 AM PDT by BlackElk ( We're off to hunt the RINOs, the RINOs who want to rule Oz! Becuz, becuz, becuz.....)
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To: Ernie.cal; snopercod
I am strongly anti-totalitarian, wherever it is based along the political spectrum. All kinds of organizations which seek near-fanatical control populate all along that spectrum. Sometimes there are concentrations of them.

There are "enormous" concentrations on "the left" half of the spectrum, but there are not "enormous" concentrations on "the right" half.

The momentum has been rather strongly going "left" over the last decades.

Kinda makes the small concentrations on "the right" stand out in the dwindling.

Such concentrations, whether "left" or "right" are not, in my view, places to go in order to get from the others --- this is a big mistake that many people make, an unneccesary move.

I agree with your idea that we should know more about what is on "the right," but I would add that we should know more about any extremist concentrations anywhere along the spectrum.

Hitler and company were not "right wing;" they were fascist national socialists on the right of communism.

"Skinheads" who nowadays fancy the symbols of N.A.Z.I. Germany, are misinformed to the point of delirium which prevents them from seeing that they are themselves, "enormously dangerous" to anybody because they willfully ignore the truth.

Yet one can find such an extreme anywhere along the spectrum.

It seems there are a lot of people who identify with some frequencies and claim a resonance, but fail to learn where they are at.

What at first appears to be soothing, may be discovered to be destructive ... if a body cares to notice before it's too late.

19 posted on 08/26/2003 9:56:26 AM PDT by First_Salute
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To: Joe Brower
Joe Brower wrote:

And what they're not adulterated with is truth and facts.

Joe Brower also wrote: …with details and analysis that the mass media purposefully ignores.

And rational people call it fantasy and/or paranoia.

Joe Brower also wrote: Their insights are indeed quite often prophetic. And what they see in the future is dark indeed.

The JBS is to politics what Earnest Angeley, Jimmy Swaggart and Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker are to religion.

We're all doomed unless we send them money so they can continue to battle tooth and nail against that old devil Satan or the NWO as the case may be.

20 posted on 08/26/2003 9:58:33 AM PDT by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: Ernie.cal
Would the JBS be the Right's version of the New York Times and Washington Post? Good to see inaccuracy is an equal-opportunity kind of thing...
21 posted on 08/26/2003 9:59:13 AM PDT by MizSterious (Support whirled peas!)
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To: MizSterious
Yeah, that would be a fair analysis.

They're just a prone to wishful thinking, blindly accepting anything that suits their agenda, and abject close-mindedness as the most doctrinaire, politically correct, smarmily self-righteous liberal.
22 posted on 08/26/2003 10:00:58 AM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine; hchutch; Poohbah; Dane; ArneFufkin; rdb3
Art Bell/JBS/Illuminati/KingofLichtenstein/ShadowGovernment/NWO ping


23 posted on 08/26/2003 10:01:21 AM PDT by Texas_Dawg (We must always keep FR pure and Merchant-rein.)
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To: quidnunc
Would those be the self-same Chicom troops that were in the Sudan? According to DEBKA...???
24 posted on 08/26/2003 10:03:44 AM PDT by donozark
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
We had a local cable access program in which a local guy would spend an hour reading The New American. He'd read a paragraph, then re...peat...it...slow...ly...in...case...we...didn't...under....stand...it....

And then he'd move on to the next paragraph.

He had a sidekick named Bob. Bob was hyperactive. When Bob would read a paragaph from The New American, he'dreaditfast then explainitrealfast in kind of a gerbil-chattering sort of way.

The day they had on William Norman Grigg as a guest, I thought Bob would explode from excitement.

It's too bad the show isn't on anymore. Gosh, I miss it.

25 posted on 08/26/2003 10:05:10 AM PDT by Catspaw
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To: Ernie.cal
JBS hates the United Nations. Therefore, they ain't all bad...
26 posted on 08/26/2003 10:05:27 AM PDT by donozark
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To: donozark
donozark wrote: Would those be the self-same Chicom troops that were in the Sudan? According to DEBKA...???

Yes, and Debka once also reported them crossing over into northern Afghanistan.

Those guys really get around.

27 posted on 08/26/2003 10:09:39 AM PDT by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: Ernie.cal
Are the NY Times., Wash Post or the latest dnc rax sheet read from a teleprompter at ABCNNBCBS credible either?
28 posted on 08/26/2003 10:10:27 AM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only support FR by donating monthly, but ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Texas_Dawg
Wonder what the subject of that pic is using as an FR nickname?
29 posted on 08/26/2003 10:10:39 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (This is the fault of outsourcing, offshoring, immigration and PC. We're all doomed.)
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To: quidnunc
I guess our money is better served by sending it the RP?
30 posted on 08/26/2003 10:12:20 AM PDT by Stew Padasso (pro-rock.com - bsnn.net - libertyteeth.com - BFD - Puff Puff Ping)
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To: BlackElk
Thanks for injecting some non-biased facts about the JBS.
Have read much of their stuff, some I've found to be a little whacky, and some of it is right on - like their early rail against the UN, and the Commusnist under-pinnings of the Civil-rights movement.
Ann Coulter's "Treason" actually covers a lot of the JBS beliefs about Communist infiltration of the State Dept, stuff she is being lauded for, but JBS'ers were branded as nuts for saying.
It's easy for some of these Freepers to just parrot things that they have heard, rather than do any serious research - this is what the Demoncrats do, come-on we're better than that.......
31 posted on 08/26/2003 10:15:00 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is a war room".)
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To: Stew Padasso
Stew Padasso wrote: I guess our money is better served by sending it the RP?

If RP=Republican Party then yes, it is immeasureably better to send it to the GOP.

32 posted on 08/26/2003 10:17:20 AM PDT by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: rrrod
"...a bunch of catholic and jew hating whackos!"

That's a mighty broad brush you're painting with. For the better part of the last 35 years the local leader of the JBS in my area is or was an Orthodox Jew. There are many Blacks within the JBS. You're believing the left wing press.

33 posted on 08/26/2003 10:20:40 AM PDT by Badray (Molon Labe!)
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To: quidnunc
If you are into pissing away money, they are as about as reliable and trustworthy as the JBS.
34 posted on 08/26/2003 10:21:22 AM PDT by Stew Padasso (pro-rock.com - bsnn.net - libertyteeth.com - BFD - Puff Puff Ping)
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To: sauropod; goldilucky
"...when I read the New American, it contains information that I have seen elsewhere from independent sources."

I subscribed to "The New American" for a few years and found it to be quite informative.

35 posted on 08/26/2003 10:24:04 AM PDT by sultan88 ("He didnít see the station wagon car, the skunk got squashed and there you are ")
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To: quidnunc
I don't disagree that they don't have an agenda of their own. Do not mistake me, I view all such organizations and things political with a wary eye. All I have to do is ask myself "What would things be like if these guys were in charge?". Most such individuals and organizations, left, right and most in between fail this test very quickly.

As do you, from your prejudicial and insulting tone.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

36 posted on 08/26/2003 10:26:41 AM PDT by Joe Brower ("Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe." - H.G. Wells)
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To: Ernie.cal
I'm shocked!

All these years I thought it was The Birch John Society.

37 posted on 08/26/2003 10:34:22 AM PDT by G.Mason (Lessons of life need not be fatal)
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To: Joe Brower; sauropod
I agree with you both.

During our attempts to boot Clinton from office, I had occasion to meet the local JBS chapter head, and he was a perfect pleasant guy- oddly, his first name is Clinton!

38 posted on 08/26/2003 10:42:25 AM PDT by backhoe (Just an old Keyboard Cowboy, ridin' the trackball into the Sunset...)
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To: sultan88
I also subscribe to The New American as it is the most informative magazine that actually educates me on important issues like the communist United Nations.

As for the John Birch Society, I salute the founder all the way.
39 posted on 08/26/2003 11:12:09 AM PDT by goldilucky
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To: sultan88
I also subscribe to The New American as it is the most informative magazine that actually educates me on important issues like the communist United Nations.

As for the John Birch Society, I salute the founder all the way.
40 posted on 08/26/2003 11:12:51 AM PDT by goldilucky
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To: rrrod
I am part Jew, Indian, and Italian but I stand behind the JBS. I do not support the Catholic Church, the Vatican, or the Pope for they support terrorists like Fidel Castro. For example, the Pope was seen mingling with Fidel in the year 2000. I am not anti-Catholic but much of what the church stands for is socialism and communism. America was founded under Judeo-Christian values. Socialism is the enemy of Judeo-Christian. When a country adopts socialism, it adopts a religion which attempts at every measure to defame, discredit, and destroy God, family, and Country.

Those who aim to destroy what this Country was founded under are not welcome in this Country!
41 posted on 08/26/2003 11:28:29 AM PDT by goldilucky
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To: Recovering_Democrat
I understand your anger about what I wrote (because you think you are incapable of substantive error in your long-held beliefs) -- but please remember that, IN REALITY, your anger should be directed toward the FBI since I am just a messenger reporting what is contained in their files (as well as from other sources that Birchers normally find acceptable).

One of the most intriguing aspects of my research has been the fact that the JBS has NEVER, to my knowledge, ever acknowledged to its membership that it has made a major mistake in a conclusion about an individual or organization that it described as Communist, pro-Communist, or a Communist dupe. Amazing (for an "educational" organization), don't you think? Never once seen any new information to cause re-consideration of premises and/or conclusions? !!

One more point: The last Scoreboard issue of American Opinion estimated Communist influence and control within the U.S. at a staggering 60-80%. According to the minutes of the first JBS National Council meeting held in Chicago on January 1, 1960, Mr. Welch said:
"Today, gentlemen, I can assure you, without the slighest doubt in my own mind, that the takeover at the top is, for all practical purposes, virtually complete. Whether you like it or not, or whether you believe it or not, our Federal government is already literally in the hands of the Communists."

Since the people that the JBS considers as noxious and subversive maintained their "control" of our country over the past 43 years -- how is it that we still live in a country that permits Free Republic website and John Birch Society and numerous other right-wing organizations to exist?? Why do right wing politicians continue to be elected to office? Why do you and your neighbors worship, without fear, in our churches and synagogues? And why can you join any group, subscribe to any publication, purchase any book, and say out loud anything you want?

At some point one has to ask -- what, exactly, did Mr. Welch and the JBS mean when they kept referring to "Communist control and influence" -- if such control and influence never produced gulags and firing squads for all their critics and perceived enemies---as has been the case in every other Communist-controlled nation?

Obviously, Welch was full of himself and totally wrong in many of his judgments.

Anyone who wants to read a 9-page detailed summary of FBI material on the Birch Society is invited to peruse my Yahoo group at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FBIvsExtremeRight/

Ernie aka Ernieinps@aol.com
42 posted on 08/26/2003 10:25:55 PM PDT by Ernie.cal
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To: Ernie.cal
Sorry folks...my previous message should have been addressed to charlesj -- who called me an idiot!
43 posted on 08/26/2003 10:32:50 PM PDT by Ernie.cal
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To: Ernie.cal
ernie, I wasn't angry. My post was a wink and a nod. :)
44 posted on 08/27/2003 12:37:45 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat (I'm so glad to no longer be associated with the Party of Dependence on Government!)
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To: Charlesj
Hoover wasn't around during the Clinton years. Hoover's FBI was gutted by the Democrats in Congress from the sixties on.
45 posted on 08/27/2003 6:36:27 PM PDT by WaterDragon (America the beautiful, I love this nation of immigrants.)
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To: All
http://www.jbs.org/
http://www.thenewamerican.com/
http://www.aobs-store.com/
http://www.trimonline.org/
http://www.robertwelchuniversity.org/
http://www.getusout.org/
46 posted on 08/27/2003 6:59:52 PM PDT by Coleus (MEOW, http://www.starterupsteve.com/swf/chowmein.html)
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To: rrrod
The President of the JBS is John McManus, a Roman Catholic, who frequently writes for the Fatima Crusader.
47 posted on 08/27/2003 7:01:38 PM PDT by Coleus (MEOW, http://www.starterupsteve.com/swf/chowmein.html)
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To: Joe Brower
Although certainly not an authoritative source (lol) I have had many assertions made by The New American privately confirmed to me by upper level staffers to several Republican members of the US Senate and House. Especially after the OKC bombing. They made some startling assertions in regards to the structure and load bearing beams as far as the damages sustained and concluded that an ANFO device would have been unable to produce that sort of damage at the range it (the truck) was situated from the building. This USAF officer had been on site and scraped some residue from area buildings that suggested fulminate of mercury, which was not in the published material list for the device. ALSO , there were load bearing columns that were cut on the interior of the blast area, but left a few exterior columns untouched near the device...all of this was in the OKC issues of TNA. A SpecOps buddy of mine just retired at that time said that a few of his own former A-Team demo guys also remarked on this odddity.

As I recall, this USAF explosives expert approached THEM with his analysis and they checked it all out and launched their stories. It was also an interesting fact I also had confirmed that many of the BATF personnel in that building who were supposed to be there in the Murrah Building at 9 am were in fact either out in the "field" or sick or someplace else when their office was pulverized.

TNA had this, but nobody else did. As I said I got the confirmation from congressional staffers whose bosses were in the followup. Congressional "leaks." LOL

48 posted on 08/27/2003 7:30:37 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Oderint dum metuant: "Let them hate so long as they fear")
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To: Joe Brower
I'm almost sure rrrod has never researched this subject.
Some people believe everything the feds say.
49 posted on 08/27/2003 7:54:50 PM PDT by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get)
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To: goldilucky; firebrand
I am not anti-Catholic but much of what the church stands for is socialism and communism. >>>>

Oh, to the contrary. If you read many of the encyclicals from the 1800's you will see, most assuredly that the Catholic Church is very opposed to Communism, Socialism and Liberalism. They knew the Devil and the secular humanists, the new agers, athiests, aborionists and communists were involved to overthrow the church.

The Catholic Church is against Communism and Socialism, Make sure the socialists do not take over; they are working from within the church and are part of the media and will stop at nothing from destroying the Church.

QUOD APOSTOLICI MUNERIS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO Xlll ON SOCIALISM
DECEMBER 28, 1878
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13apost.htm
NOSTIS ET NOBISCUM
ON THE CHURCH IN THE PONTIFICAL STATES
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS IX
DECEMBER 8, 1849
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9nostis.htm
QUADRAGESIMO ANNO
ON RECONSTRUCTION OF THE SOCIAL ORDER
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS Xl MAY 15, 1931
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11QUADR.HTM
GRAVES DE COMMUNI RE
Encyclical of Pope leo XIII on Christian Democracy
January 18, 1901
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13grcom.htm
LIBERTAS, ON THE NATURE OF HUMAN LIBERTY (Against Liberalism)
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII JUNE 20, 1888
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13liber.htm
50 posted on 08/28/2003 9:04:20 PM PDT by Coleus (MEOW, http://www.starterupsteve.com/swf/chowmein.html)
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