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The Werewolf Principal[Terrorist Attacks In Germany After WW11]
The Command Post ^ | July 20, 2003 | Alan E Brain

Posted on 08/26/2003 7:37:12 PM PDT by Lady In Blue

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To: dvan
They actually tracked down his former Commander in order to get him to return; it worked.
51 posted on 08/27/2003 11:30:11 AM PDT by Joseph_CutlerUSA ("It is generally inadvisable to eject directly over the area you just bombed. " -USAF Manual)
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To: Peach
Yes, it *would* change my mind. I would think since you are advancing this argument, you would be the first to want hard numbers to indicate that the situations are comparable. Otherwise, nobody, not even people who agree with you on the war, will take you seriously. BTW, I have been willing to find the numbers....myself. I called up the Center for Military History in Washington D.C. (an arm of the federal government). I talked to an expert on the occuation and he dismissed the comparision as total nonsense. Unfortunately, he did not have numbers either.
52 posted on 08/27/2003 11:32:10 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: cibco
47 men! Now...were cooking. Please send me the link that 47 or more men died in post-war guerrilla action.
53 posted on 08/27/2003 11:33:52 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Lady In Blue
bump
54 posted on 08/27/2003 11:35:19 AM PDT by VOA
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To: Austin Willard Wright
Then you did not read the article(s) I posted to you yesterday or this morning. They are written by scholars who did not "laugh" at the comparisons but instead detailed in grisly accountings of how our soldiers were targeted and murdered in post-war Germany.
55 posted on 08/27/2003 12:04:23 PM PDT by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Austin Willard Wright
Read this. Watch for a History Channel which is DEVOTED to the subject of how our soldiers were targeted in post-war Germany.http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/971040/posts
56 posted on 08/27/2003 12:08:00 PM PDT by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Peach
Thanks for the link. I have no doubt at all that some soldiers were killed. If a few people died from potshots, however, the situations are not comparable. Again, I would think that you would be the first to want to get the full facts on this. Am, I wrong?

I am perfectly willing to be persuaded....but facts are needed to nail down your comparison at least if want to claim that the violence was on similar scale.

57 posted on 08/27/2003 12:57:06 PM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Peach
I am really getting tired of your accusations that I "obviously" don't read your links. I have shown you the courtesy of reading them.....but do not think they answer my question. Now...if you could show me the *same* courtesy and answer my specific question instead of making false charges.
58 posted on 08/27/2003 1:03:34 PM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Austin Willard Wright
"Again, I would think that you would be the first to want to get the full facts on this. "

I want to know too. I wandered around Austria and received no warnings to beware. The fact that this is so 'buried' makes the whole matter suspect.

A division losing 47 men would be easy to find if it is true. Just ID the Division. All divisions published their history. The 101st had a whole TV series A Band of Brothers which included their occupation period. You are right to want documentation. This is beginning to not pass the smell test.

I wonder if the same undocumented stuff if circulated about the Japan occupation.

59 posted on 08/27/2003 1:11:26 PM PDT by ex-snook (American jobs need BALANCED TRADE. You buy from us, we buy from you.)
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To: Austin Willard Wright
Considering that neither the History Channel, various news articles nor the organization you called were able to give firm numbers of American soldiers killed during post-war Germany, I can only conclude that - as I previously stated - numbers and statistics and polling were not as important during the mid 40's as they are today.

Speaking of being tired of something, I am rather tired of reading that you apparently refuse to believe that soldiers being killed in post-war Germany have no relevance to soldiers being killed in post-war Iraq.

How on earth can you claim no relevance, without facts at your disposal? The facts that I have at my disposal are that soldiers were killed. No one, not even you, have disputed that.

Considering that the History Channel and others have devoted entire topics to this matter, without giving firm numbers, and considering the huge numbers of soldiers in post-war Germany, I conclude that it wasn't just a dozen or so soldiers killed. I conclude that it was a considerable number or the topic wouldn't be so newsworthy. You will doubtless claim otherwise because it fits with your preconceived agenda.

And, by the way, what was the number of that organization you called the other day? I'd like to call them myself and will be willing to bet I can get a range number and will then post that.
60 posted on 08/27/2003 2:16:14 PM PDT by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Austin Willard Wright
I'm surprised you have read those links and expect to see that you will no longer claim that we are sure Iraq "didn't do anything to the United States". As many of those links showed, there are sufficient numbers of people with access to intelligence information who believe that Iraq helped in the attack in the first WTC and that Iraq had links with AQ.

You may be tired of my constantly referring to the fact that you didn't read those articles but I've been referring to that because until today, you have never acknowledged that you did read them. It seems every time you brought up a subject, someone would provide information that disproved your accusations and you would then change the subject.
61 posted on 08/27/2003 2:18:37 PM PDT by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Austin Willard Wright
Like I said in my post, I don't have a link and I could have read it somewhere beside the net. I don't recall the division that was highlighted. The 47 KIA is what stuck with me. Sorry, that's the best I can do. Didn't know there would be a large discussion about this subject at that time. ;0)
62 posted on 08/27/2003 3:50:53 PM PDT by cibco (Xin Loi... Saddam)
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To: Peach
Of course, it has relevance if you can show that the numbers were at all comparable. I will eat crow if you can. Hows that for an invitation?

Your point about people at the time "not caring" about numbers is bogus. They kept good enough records that we know, for example, that 297,000 Americans died in combat action in WWII. Now....how many died in postwar combat action? The burden of proof is on you since you are advancing a revisionist theory that even the Center for Military History regards as wrong.

63 posted on 08/27/2003 4:27:25 PM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Austin Willard Wright
Excuse me but I am not the only person to be advancing this theory. The administration, pundits, columnists et al are also advancing this theory.

You can't honestly believe it wasn't several hundred AT LEAST killed in post war Germany, considering the number of our soldiers there and for how long we were there and the resistance was significant enough that entire television shows and articles have been devoted to the subject.

Now I notice you did not provide the number of that organization you supposedly called. Interesting.
64 posted on 08/27/2003 5:26:20 PM PDT by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Peach
"Excuse me but I am not the only person to be advancing this theory. The administration, pundits, columnists et al are also advancing this theory. "

Sorry quantity pushing the same story doesn't count. A lot of people believed NY Times Jason 'Blair' too. If it can't be verified, it is just BS.

65 posted on 08/27/2003 5:38:05 PM PDT by ex-snook (American jobs need BALANCED TRADE. You buy from us, we buy from you.)
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To: Peach
Several hundred killed now? Evidence please! Even the soldiers who served in post-war Germany/Austria on FR who have commented disagree with you
66 posted on 08/28/2003 5:46:55 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Austin Willard Wright
You are obsessed with numbers, aren't you. Please provide information on the organization you presumably called the other day.
67 posted on 08/28/2003 5:52:55 AM PDT by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Peach
If I can, I try to show the courtesy of answering direct questions with direct answers rahter than hemming and hawing and complaining about the question. I will show this courtesy again:

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/

68 posted on 08/28/2003 6:09:07 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Austin Willard Wright
Thanks for the info. Considering you called the office of military affairs and THEY didn't have the answer, I don't think it's terribly difficult to believe that others don't have the numbers either, do you?

As far as your being courteous, I have previously noted that when YOU are asked questions that you cannot or do not want to answer, you merely change the subject.

I haven't hemmed and hawed but rather provided links to prove that soldiers died in post-war Germany by a variety of means. You seem to feel it is extremely important to find out exactly how many soldiers died. I don't find the numbers as important, except to get you off my back, but believe the analogy still applies between Hitler supporters killing our soldiers and terrorists killing our soldiers.

FNC interviewed a veteran of WWII a few days ago who had been in Germany 3 years after the war and said the killing of our soldiers had "mostly" stopped by that time. Another Freeper saw this interview as well.

Believe it's relevant or not at your leisure. I can see from previous posts you don't seem to care about terrorist activities in Iraq, either. Or links to AQ. One cannot convince the unconvincable.
69 posted on 08/28/2003 6:14:40 AM PDT by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Austin Willard Wright
Looks like a few thousand soldiers killed in post-war Germany to me.http://search.loc.gov:8765/query.html?col=loc&col=cgi&charset=utf-8&ht=0&qp=&qs=&qc=&pw=100%25&ws=0&la=en&qm=0&st=1&lk=1&rf=2&oq=0&rq=0&si=0&qt=soldiers+killed+in+post+war+Germany&submit=SEARCH&nh=10&descflag=on&verbose=on
70 posted on 08/28/2003 6:17:54 AM PDT by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Peach
Gee whiz, you're a nice guy! This is the thanks I get for answering your question directly.
71 posted on 08/28/2003 6:49:56 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Peach
What do reedwood forests (see 7) have to do with providing an answer to my direct question? BTW, I don't need an "exact" number. Just a ballpark figure from a credible government or private source.
72 posted on 08/28/2003 6:52:08 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Austin Willard Wright
I sent you a link from the Library of Congress. Perhaps you don't think that is a credible source either. The number was approx. 2,700 soldiers died post WWII.

If the link didn't work, go to the Library of COngress and look it up.
73 posted on 08/28/2003 7:15:41 AM PDT by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Austin Willard Wright
As you will see, Austin, the Library of Congress reports that 2800 soldiers were killed in post-war Germany.


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Results for: soldiers killed in post war Germany
Document count: soldiers (2814) killed (1255) in (51982) post (4995) war (12721) Germany (2976) soldiers killed... (1)



52098 results found, top 500 sorted by relevance hide summaries 1-10



1 Volume167FinaltoPublisher.fm
ARTICLES FOURTEENTH WALDEMAR A. SOLF LECTURE IN INTERNATIONAL LAW: A NEGOTIATOR’S PERSPECTIVE ON THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT Ambassador David J. Scheffer ...
http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/Military_Law_Review/pdf-files/ 27708D~1.pdf - 1656.6KB 65%
05 Jun 03
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2 Volume176FinaltoPublisher862003.fm
ARTICLES OVERCOMING POST-COLONIAL MYOPIA: A CALL TO RECOGNIZE AND REGULATE PRIVATE MILITARY COMPANIES Major Todd S. Milliard SITTING IN THE DOCK OF THE DAY: ...
http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/Military_Law_Review/pdf-files/ 176-06-2003.pdf - 2698.6KB 63%
27 Aug 03
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3 http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/Military_Law_Review/ pdf-files/275C87~1.pdf
DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY PAMPHLET 27-1 00-90 0" 359 '0 MILITARY LAW REVIEW VOL. 90 h) Y I -. I 00 I 90 h € ip fD cp s. € I Professional Writing Award for 1979 Symposium ...
http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/Military_Law_Review/pdf-files/ 275C87~1.pdf - 2432.4KB 63%
04 Jun 03
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4 Volume175642003toPublisher.fm
ARTICLES COURT-MARTIAL JURISDICTION OVER RETIREES UNDER ARTICLES 2( 4) AND 2( 6): TIME TO LIGHTEN UP AND TIGHTEN UP Lieutenant Colonel (Ret.) J. Mackey Ives & ...
http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/Military_Law_Review/pdf-files/ 175-03-2003.pdf - 2465.8KB 62%
18 Jul 03
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5 FRD--THE SOCIOLOGY AND PSYCHOLOGY OF TERRORISM
Dear Reader: This product was prepared by the staff of the Federal Research Division of the Library of Congress under an Interagency Agreement with the sponsoring ...
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14 Apr 03
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6 C:\Documents and Settings\scra\Desktop\Sociology-Psychology of Terrorism.wpd
THE SOCIOLOGY AND PSYCHOLOGY OF TERRORISM: WHO BECOMES A TERRORIST AND WHY? A Report Prepared under an Interagency Agreement by the Federal ...
http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Sociology-Psychology of Terrorism.pdf - 1479.7KB 61%
21 Aug 03
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7 Timber and Forests
California Timber and Forests Falling an old-growth redwood, 1985 CREDIT: "Falling an old-growth redwood, 1985." Photo by Karen Tillson for "Timber and Forests: Post war to Present ...
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8 http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/Military_Law_Review/ pdf-files/277863~1.pdf
DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY PAMPHLET 27-100-9 MILITARY LAW REVIEW HEADQUARTERS, DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY JULY 1960 AGO lOO49B PREFACE The Military Law Review is designed t o provide ...
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9 http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/Military_Law_Review/ pdf-files/277865~1.pdf
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10 http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/Military_Law_Review/ pdf-files/277875~1.pdf
”d U i R 4 Volume 149 Summer 1995 MILITARY LAW REVIEW NUREMBERG AND THE RULE OF LAW A FIFTY-YEAR VERDICT A COLLECTION OF WORKS ASSESSING THE LEGACY OF THE WAR CRIMES TRIALS OF ...
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Library of Congress

Comments: Library of Congress Help Desk ( August 28, 2003 )
74 posted on 08/28/2003 7:20:55 AM PDT by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Austin Willard Wright
Actually, I goofed - here are the actual numbers of US and allied soldiers killed in post-war Germany - all numbers from the Library of Congress. Debate these. Over 19,000 US soldiers killed in post-war Germany. The other #'s I sent you were German soldiers.


Results for: US and allied soldiers killed in post war Germany
Document count: US (19377) and (51790) allied (1121) soldiers (2814) killed (1255) in (51982) post (4995) war (12721) Germany (2976) US and... (1)



53488 results found, top 500 sorted by relevance hide summaries 1-10



1 Volume175642003toPublisher.fm
ARTICLES COURT-MARTIAL JURISDICTION OVER RETIREES UNDER ARTICLES 2( 4) AND 2( 6): TIME TO LIGHTEN UP AND TIGHTEN UP Lieutenant Colonel (Ret.) J. Mackey Ives & ...
http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/Military_Law_Review/pdf-files/ 175-03-2003.pdf - 2465.8KB 71%
18 Jul 03
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2 Volume167FinaltoPublisher.fm
ARTICLES FOURTEENTH WALDEMAR A. SOLF LECTURE IN INTERNATIONAL LAW: A NEGOTIATOR’S PERSPECTIVE ON THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT Ambassador David J. Scheffer ...
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3 http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/Military_Law_Review/ pdf-files/276471~1.pdf
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Library of Congress

Comments: Library of Congress Help Desk ( August 28, 2003 )
75 posted on 08/28/2003 7:24:04 AM PDT by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Austin Willard Wright
Sorry for the messy looking links. Click this (Library of Congress link) and then do your own search. Ask how many US and allied soldiers died in post-war Germany. The answer: Over 19,000 US soldiers. http://search.loc.gov:8765/query.html?col=loc&col=cgi&charset=utf-8&ht=0&qp=&qs=&qc=&pw=100%25&ws=0&la=en&qm=0&st=1&lk=1&rf=2&oq=0&rq=0&si=0&qt=soldiers+killed+in+post+war+Germany&submit=SEARCH&nh=10&descflag=on&verbose=on
76 posted on 08/28/2003 7:27:56 AM PDT by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Austin Willard Wright; All
Sorry for the messy looking links; must remember to preview before hitting post.

The answers provided by the Library of Congress are the number of resource documents they have to help access the information I was looking for; not the actual answer to the question I was asking.

I have e-mailed the Library of Congress with this specific question: How many US and allied soldiers died in post-war Germany.

I will post the answer when I receive it. Again, apologies for making a mess of this page.
77 posted on 08/28/2003 8:40:46 AM PDT by Peach (The Clintons have pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Peach
Did you ever get an answer to this question?
78 posted on 01/20/2004 12:17:44 PM PST by axel f
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To: RandallFlagg; Phantom Lord
Ping to post 77.
79 posted on 01/20/2004 12:43:55 PM PST by axel f
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