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Take that p.e.t.a. :)

the sounds you hear in the distance are liberal vegetarians heads exploding after reading this article and trying to think up a counter argument

the only thing I can say to them is

HA HA

1 posted on 08/29/2003 2:14:42 PM PDT by freepatriot32
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To: freepatriot32
Animals have morals? Tell that to my dog when he's licking his private parts in public...
2 posted on 08/29/2003 2:21:43 PM PDT by Trampled by Lambs (...and pecked by the dove...)
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To: freepatriot32; msdrby
Mmmm. Cooked dead cow coming right up!
3 posted on 08/29/2003 2:25:29 PM PDT by Prof Engineer (HHD - Blast it Jim. I'm an Engineer, not a walking dictionary.)
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To: freepatriot32
he concludes that humans have a moral obligation to consume a vegan (use no animal products) diet

Should be:
he concludes that animals have a moral obligation to consume a vegan (use no animal products) diet

There, now it's state-of-the-art moral philosophy.

5 posted on 08/29/2003 2:37:11 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: freepatriot32
I tried to read this but I was afraid my head would explode. Someone is worried about the field mice being killed? Please tell me that is not true.
6 posted on 08/29/2003 2:39:20 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: freepatriot32
If all of that land was used to produce a plant-based diet, and if 10 animals of the field are killed per ha per year, then 10 x 120 million = 1200 million or 1.2 billion would be killed to produce a vegan diet.

Liberals couldn't. Someone with a basic knowledge of farming could. There are 120 million hectares farmed in the US annually because it takes roughly 10 times the amount of forage land to produce a pound of beef as it does an equivalent pound of plant protein (mmmm. soybeans. [drooling sound]) This ratio varies significantly depending on the animal (emu and ostrich - both of which are very tasty - require approximately 3 times the amount of land to produce a pound of tasty flesh as the equivalent pound of plant protein (mmmm. wheat gluten. [drooling sound, sudden choking as sticky gluten blocks air ducts])). The vegan's theory is that by eliminating meat and meat byproducts from our economy, we will vastly reduce the amount of land necessary for agriculture. With less land being cultivated, less little fieldmice getting their heads chopped off by the disk.

The problem with the argument over all is that the numbers of dead critters from any form of agriculture is vastly greater than a mere 1.2 billion or .9 billion fieldmice. Compared to the number of insects and microbia (as long as we're talking about animal rights, why stop only with things that possess central nervous systems?) that are killed even by the "best" agricultural methods, the cows, chickens, emus, ostriches, bison, pigs, cats, and other edibles remain a miniscule portion of the total number of deaths.

The bottom line is that animals are tasty.

7 posted on 08/29/2003 2:43:37 PM PDT by FateAmenableToChange
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To: freepatriot32
Isn't the design of the human digestive tract enough to prove that humans should be eating meat? It is clearly that of an omnivore which means that meat should be part of our diet. Just like nutrition education has taught for decades, a balanced diet is the key. (Says the guy who is currently eating a nectarine while dreaming of a steak dinner tonight.)
8 posted on 08/29/2003 2:44:18 PM PDT by CommerceComet
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To: freepatriot32

Bambi, it's what's for dinner.

10 posted on 08/29/2003 2:46:08 PM PDT by dogbyte12
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To: freepatriot32
In conclusion, applying the Least Harm Principle as proposed by Regan would actually argue that we are morally obligated to move to a ruminant-based diet rather than a vegan diet.

hehehehe ... How come animal "rights" thingys don't consider insects in their protests ? Maybe because a grub or a beetle isn't cute, furry and cuddly like a baby seal.
12 posted on 08/29/2003 2:56:30 PM PDT by pyx
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To: freepatriot32
Most of the farm animals we eat (pigs, chickens, beef, etc) are either raised entirely on farm-raised grain (chicken, hogs) or are at least finished on grain in a feedlot (cattle, some lamb). You really have to go out of your way to find beef that was produced entirely on grass. So the argument presented above is largely specious. Your diet will involve killing of ground-nesting birds, etc, no matter which path you choose. However, you could do as I do, and supplement your diet with significant quantities of venison, canada goose, striper, etc....and know that no meadowlark eggs or earthworms were harmed in the process.
14 posted on 08/29/2003 2:58:30 PM PDT by Renfield
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To: freepatriot32
Yeah, I mean how would you like to refer to pork legislation as succotash legislation, or Congressional pork as Congressional tofu, huh?
17 posted on 08/29/2003 3:07:39 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Go ahead, make my day and re-state the obvious! Again!)
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To: freepatriot32; AAABEST; Ace2U; Alamo-Girl; Alas; amom; AndreaZingg; Anonymous2; ApesForEvolution; ..
Rights, farms, environment ping.

Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.

33 posted on 08/29/2003 8:00:42 PM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: freepatriot32
Feh! The real answer is to eat what you like within healthy limits. I had veal sznicel, kapusta, beets with chrzen, lettuce and tomatoes for dinner. Polish, yummy, and also OK for diabetics. No desert (sigh!).

So there!

35 posted on 08/29/2003 8:56:56 PM PDT by Salman (Mickey Akbar)
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To: freepatriot32
First of all, this paper/report is from OSU, OREGON. Need I say more?

Animals of the field are killed by several factors, including: 1. Tractors and farm implements run over them. 2. Plows and cultivators destroy underground burrows and kill animals. 3. Removal of the crops (harvest) removes ground cover allowing animals on the surface to be killed by predators. 4. Application of pesticides.

This is laughable. We raise beef steers. None of them have ever been run over by tractors or farm implements. They are too expensive to buy and raise to be so careless. First rule of the farming road: No drinking and tractoring.

#2 Seasonal flooding of the irrigation ditch also destroys and kills underground animals. This is a good thing. If the burrows are too big and soft a steer can break a leg with a fall. Them pesky critters (the underground kind) also destroy gardens in one night. Kill em all!

#3 Yeah, so. Crops are to be harvested. This is mother nature at work. It's how the world works. Get a grip.

#4 We have never had to use pesticides. But if we needed to we would. It's called rotation. Let the cattle feed on one section of unsprayed ground while the sprayed section sits for a couple of weeks. Get it?

Now, all you liberals, you can have my portion of tofu if I can have your portion of beef.

43 posted on 08/30/2003 2:37:42 PM PDT by Oorang ( Go put your best bib and tuck on, I feel like a spree)
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To: freepatriot32

save for later


44 posted on 06/23/2004 7:20:08 AM PDT by steveo (RWR RIP)
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To: freepatriot32

In case you didn't know, this argument has been easily refuted.

It argues that more animals die in growing plants than the animals that are killed for meat. This is partly true: many animals living in the ag fields are killed when the plants are harvested. However, we must feed the animals we eat, and, in fact, feed them 10 times as much plant matter as we would eat ourselves if we just ate the plants. (10-times is an average; some animals consume less, some consume more.) So we have to grow 10 times as much plant matter AND THEREFORE KILL 10 TIMES AS MANY ANIMALS in order to eat animals over plants. And this is without taking into account the number of animals being fed these plants...

So, while eating solely plants does often result in the death of nonhumanimals, eating animals will just as often require a far larger number of nonhumanimals killed in the process.

So, if we are trying to minize our harm, eating plants wins out. Unless, of course, you are eating wild game or 100% grass-fed animals, or other 'special' conditions are present.


47 posted on 03/01/2007 3:56:01 PM PST by Colonelsparky
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