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'Exit protocol' for brain-disabled woman? (Breaking - Schiavo)
WorldNetDaily ^ | Aug. 29, 2003 | Sarah Foster

Posted on 08/29/2003 10:41:03 PM PDT by kimmie7

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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Following is the URL of the contact form for the health care complaint section of the state of Florida website. If you go to www.state.fl.us you will find contact info for Jeb Bush, etc. Also the hotline for Health and Human Services is (888) 419-3456. All of these may have been contacted before, but it can't hurt to try again. Sorry I don't know how to post a link.

Carolyn

http://www.fdhc.state.fl.us/Contact/form_contactus.cfm

51 posted on 08/30/2003 4:34:46 AM PDT by CDHart
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To: kimmie7; Chancellor Palpatine
legal guardianship is impossible to fight and so easy to get.
52 posted on 08/30/2003 5:09:03 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: All
It is my considered opinion that the very existence of HOSPICES is an evil in itself.

My uncle was "treated" for brain cancer by doctors of oncology who turned a quiet, ordinary working man who thought he was talking to Jesus and suffering incontinence problems , to a unresponsive thing curled in a fetal position in a hospice bed. That took only three radiation and chemo "treatments" and two weeks of benign neglect in the hospice finished him off. The woman he lived with for many years believed the doctors.

Only doctors can get by with administering massive doses of lethal chemicals and radiation without prosecution.

53 posted on 08/30/2003 5:13:22 AM PDT by hoosierham
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To: dandelion
I don't understand why the parents don't get their attorney and go to court to remove legal guardianship and gain it for themselves.

I was in a similar situation and was in the process of doing that, and it seemed as if it would be a very successful attempt. You only need to show that the current legal guardian is not acting in the best welfare of the patient.

54 posted on 08/30/2003 5:14:29 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: annyokie
I don't agree. It seems to me that for some reason the judge is invested in letting the husband kill his wife. I'm not saying it is money, maybe it is pride - maybe he just doesn't like the Schindler's faces. Who knows?

But so much of what he does smacks of bias. Even when requested by the governor, he didn't give a second thought to giving this woman another guardian. He let him take her out of a hospital when she is deathly ill.

In Michael's words, "Her teeth are fine; she doesn't eat," Michael Schiavo said. "Why take her to a gynecologist? She was supposed to die months ago. I don't want her room filled with flowers from strangers or right-to-life activists. Even though she is vegetative she has a right to privacy."

And I think the judge is firmly on his side, for some reason he only knows.
55 posted on 08/30/2003 6:36:58 AM PDT by I still care
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To: MarMema
The parents have been trying to get him removed as guardian for many years. The judge has consistently sided with the husband on all aspects from the very beginning, even after a guardian ad litem was appointed and testified that he felt that the husband should not be the one making these decisions due to conflict of interest. He also felt there wasn't clear and convincing evidence that Terri would not want advanced life support (not that a feeding tube is advanced life support). The judge ignored his testimony, and left the husband in charge.

Check out http://www.friendsofterri.org. There is lots of information there about what has been going on.
56 posted on 08/30/2003 7:18:29 AM PDT by iowamomforfreedom
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To: dandelion
Greer wants her dead. I believe there's a payoff somewhere...

Me too, why else would the judge be so adament about ending her life.

57 posted on 08/30/2003 7:25:44 AM PDT by yhwhsman ("Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small..." -Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: annyokie
Here kiddo, this thread should explain it all a little better.

Terri Schiavo: Jeb Bush Letter only a 'Good First Step'

58 posted on 08/30/2003 7:38:51 AM PDT by yhwhsman ("Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small..." -Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: shellylet
Maybe he was trying to get rid of her 13 years ago?

And maybe that's why he's trying to get rid of her now. Don't want to risk the chance of her possibly speaking again and revealing what he did to her.

And, he's planning on cremating her body as soon as she dies. Course, he's such an angel I'm sure it's not to hide any evidence. (/sarcasm)

59 posted on 08/30/2003 7:44:50 AM PDT by yhwhsman ("Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small..." -Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: I still care
And I think the judge is firmly on his side, for some reason he only knows.

I think Greer has his job at stake. He has made mistakes in handling this case and if Terri improves his mistakes would be investigated.

Terri is currently suffering from what seems to be aspiration pneumonia.

Did someone give her something to eat or drink by mouth?

60 posted on 08/30/2003 7:49:06 AM PDT by syriacus (Schumer's in a MALE-ONLY group. It places Duty to God over ALL other duties.)
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To: dandelion
I'm confused...if he's associated with the hospice...meaning he has a financial interest, wouldn't he want to keep her alive?
61 posted on 08/30/2003 7:51:52 AM PDT by Hildy
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To: Hildy
This has been my thought too.

I think it has more to do with his political agenda. He is VERY pro-euthenasia. I suspect the Judge is too.
62 posted on 08/30/2003 8:07:16 AM PDT by iowamomforfreedom
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To: syriacus
Repper, Garcia, and Associates

Greer and Martha Lenderman* have both used the same PR company.

That PR company has a partner who worked for Florida newspapers.

Wayne Garcia spent 13 years in daily print journalism as a reporter and editor for the Gainesville Sun, Tampa Tribune and St. Petersburg Times. Most recently he was editor-in-chief of ReviewNet, where his work founding the on-line site was awarded Best Online Newspaper (Small) by Editor & Publisher/The Kelsey Group.
Is this PR-newspaper connection affecting the way Florida papers cover Terri's case?

*Martha Lenderman is the wife of Greer's fellow judge. She is also on the Board of the Hospice that Terri has been in. (The PR company heped her in her campaign for State Rep. ---District 51 - 1998, it helped Greer in 1992)

63 posted on 08/30/2003 8:10:08 AM PDT by syriacus (Schumer's in a MALE-ONLY group. It places Duty to God over ALL other duties.)
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To: kimmie7
who suffered massive brain damage when she collapsed at their home 13 years ago under unexplained circumstances at the age of 26.

26 year olds just don't collapse --- I'll bet the husband wanted her dead from the start. If she's lived 13 years in this condition, she has a strong will to live. You can't keep someone alive once they lose that --- I bet he's afraid she could wake up and tell what happened to her. Never trust your life with an adulterous spouse.

64 posted on 08/30/2003 8:11:01 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: kimmie7
'exit protocol'

Reminds me of a term Planned Parenthood used to use, Product of Conception

65 posted on 08/30/2003 8:11:33 AM PDT by Vinnie
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To: yhwhsman
Thanks! I'll go read. BBL.
66 posted on 08/30/2003 8:14:45 AM PDT by annyokie (One good thing about being wrong is the joy it brings to others.)
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To: I still care
She was supposed to die months ago. I don't want her room filled with

He meant 13 years ago --- all he needs to do is walk away, leave her to the family which loves her, the people who brought her into the world in the first place. If getting a divorce is the problem --- someone should make sure he gets that even if she can't be informed --if that's his hangup. He's had a lover on the side --- he can let his poor wife go back to her parents --- but that might mean he and his lover don't get the insurance money.

67 posted on 08/30/2003 8:21:05 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: MarMema
I don't understand why the parents don't get their attorney and go to court to remove legal guardianship and gain it for themselves.

They have .. they have also tried to have Judge Greer removed from the case .. but Judge Greer ruled against it

68 posted on 08/30/2003 8:25:52 AM PDT by Mo1 (http://www.favewavs.com/wavs/cartoons/spdemocrats.wav)
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To: Hildy
Hospices need patients and Greer has (in effect) redefined "vegetative" to include many more patients, during his handling of Terri's case.

http://www.notdeadyet.org/docs/schaivobrief.html

Contrary to Florida law and established medical practice, the trial court imposed a new requirement that persons with severe disabilities demonstrate not just voluntary action "of any kind," as the state law's plain language specifies, but rather "consistent" and "reproducible" actions or responses to establish their own cognition.

69 posted on 08/30/2003 8:28:00 AM PDT by syriacus (Schumer's in a MALE-ONLY group. It places Duty to God over ALL other duties.)
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To: kimmie7
Looks like the jerk will do whatever it takes to get her to die. It is nice to see that Jeb Bush has gotten into it though. Maybe he can help somehow.
70 posted on 08/30/2003 8:35:35 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: syriacus
Excellent point!
71 posted on 08/30/2003 8:37:29 AM PDT by iowamomforfreedom (Why is it illegal to starve an animal but not a human being?)
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To: annyokie
You need to read more about this case. Your comments suggest you haven't read much about it.
72 posted on 08/30/2003 8:39:21 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: FITZ
I'll bet the husband wanted her dead from the start. If she's lived 13 years in this condition, she has a strong will to live.

And she certantly is not brain dead. I am joining the fight for Terri. Her parents courage and love is admirable.
I would do the same thing if Terri was my daughter.


73 posted on 08/30/2003 8:40:31 AM PDT by GHCubana
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To: GHCubana
Could somebody include me in the Terri Ping list, please.
Thank you.
74 posted on 08/30/2003 8:43:24 AM PDT by GHCubana
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To: syriacus
Until We the Sovereigns of these United States let our outrage over socialist societal engineering judges be known and FELT, this sort of evil in our midst is laid at our door. We are responsible for not remaining vigilant in our own nation, our own states, our own neighborhoods. Terri Schiavo is about to be executed because We the People have acquiesced to judges and courts establishing our collective morality. This Greer ghoul is a prime example of an amoral person placed in power and reshaping our nation's morality. If We the People leave bastards like this in power, we are ultimately to blame for the immoral nation we become. I'm sorry to feel compelled to state this, but it appears that the politicians in Flordia are playing this to the hilt suing Terri's life as a pawn. Governor Bush is acting only in half-assed measures, it would appear, to involve his office incrimentally ... and Terri will be dead before Jeb Bush takes decisive action to protect her as a citizen of Florida. If this murderous husband and complicit/accomplice Judge are successful in executing Terri through neglect or direct withdrawal intervention, it is the Governor of Florida who has failed to do his duty to the citizenry of Florida ... unless Jeb agrees with the Judge and is seeking to hide that fact behind feckless inaction.
75 posted on 08/30/2003 8:45:45 AM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Hildy
No... hospices, which used to be about care for the dying, are now in the business of "death with dignity in a paid facility". That new mission has made "death by design" an industry, and it is worth MILLIONS, if not BILLIONS of dollars a year. The Hospice for the Florida Suncoast, where Terri is located, is the biggest employer in Pinellas County.

In the beginning of this case, Mike Schiavo could have garnered nearly one million dollars that had been earmarked for Terri's care, if she had just died. He had her moved to hospice, out of a theraputic care facility, and she has been in the hospice labelled "terminal" for NINE YEARS. No one is supposed to "live in a hospice" - if they do, they are obviously not in a terminal state. But Mike has kept her there, without basic care, without medical attention, and without therapy, for nearly a decade, trying to facilitate her death.

But Terri just WILL NOT DIE on her own.

So now this case has become about "allowing" Terri to die - by starvation. If they can just get the courts to change the definition of brain-damaged people from "disabled" to "needing to die" then they will create a whole new industry: an industry based on "facilitating the death" of thousands of incapacitated persons who never signed a directive - just like Terri.

Can you imagine the number of people that would gain guardianship of older or disabled relatives, and then bring them in for extermination based on that relative's word that "I know that Cousin Timmy/Uncle Joey/Grandma wanted to die; I heard them say it once"...? How many more will be lawyers who are "appointed" guardians for elderly patients who don't have visible heirs? After all, Hospice for the Florida Suncoast owns several nursing homes, assisted living centers, and has contracts with at least ONE hospital - Morton Plant, where Terri went for treatment.

The guardian gains the estate, or a small kickback, the hospice gets the money for the "patient" - and remember, they can't come to hospice without being pronounced "terminal". Oh outrageous, we say - but when a retarded adult or an old stroke victim gets labelled "terminal" because no one wants to live like that, who would object? If a cancer-ridden old man - or a brain-injured young woman - dies a "facilitated death", who cares as long as it lines the pockets of the corrupt?

It appears that there just aren't enough people terminal patients to support Hospice's financial goals. So, they are going to make patients terminal. That is exactly what Mike Schiavo did to Terri - and that's the kind of business that will make the Hospice and their patients' guardians rich beyond their wildest dreams.

76 posted on 08/30/2003 8:56:09 AM PDT by dandelion
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To: MHGinTN
This Greer ghoul is a prime example of an amoral person placed in power and reshaping our nation's morality

Well said, MHGinTN!! I agree.

I'm sure he'd like a pat on the back for his "efforts on our behalf," too.

77 posted on 08/30/2003 9:06:34 AM PDT by syriacus (Return, O Lord. How long? Ps 90:13)
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To: dandelion
It appears that there just aren't enough people terminal patients to support Hospice's financial goals. So, they are going to make patients terminal.

Well stated!!!

Medical ambulances will be busily moving patients out of the nursing homes--and into hospices.

It's much easier to find staff capable of "allowing" people to die, than finding staff capable of caring for disabled people.

Physical therapists need not apply.

78 posted on 08/30/2003 9:12:11 AM PDT by syriacus (Return, O Lord. How long? Ps 90:13)
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To: kimmie7; All
Hey Kimmie, ping me if you see any new info on Terri.

This case isn't just about a woman who is going to be murdered. If Michael Schiavo and Judge Greer succeed, then we all will be touched by the consequences in one way or another.

It would be great if Florida FReepers could get together and hold a rally.
79 posted on 08/30/2003 9:16:52 AM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (This cow is independently owned and operated)
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To: honeygrl
You're correct. I don't know much about it and I thank all who are helping me to learn about this poor woman's plight.
80 posted on 08/30/2003 9:18:19 AM PDT by annyokie (One good thing about being wrong is the joy it brings to others.)
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To: syriacus
Here is an interesting article entitled

Hospice is for Caring .. or is it Killing?

http://www.hospicepatients.org/A-willingness-to-kill.html
81 posted on 08/30/2003 9:19:16 AM PDT by pc93 (Murder of Terri Schindler by Michael Schiavo sanctioned by Jeb Bush and the Florida Supreme Court)
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To: dandelion
It just occurred to me.

The State of Florida might benefit financially in many ways from allowing more people to die sooner.


82 posted on 08/30/2003 9:23:43 AM PDT by syriacus (Return, O Lord. How long? Ps 90:13)
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To: syriacus
That just about covers it! ... Population controls come in many forms, including contraception, abortion, euthanasia, and 'benign neglect'. Someone has convinced we the people that reducing the population leads to better lives for the excapees.
83 posted on 08/30/2003 9:45:12 AM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: dandelion
"I know that Cousin Timmy/Uncle Joey/Grandma wanted to die; I heard them say it once"...?

Will it stop there? How about....

"I know that Cousin Timmy/Uncle Joey/Grandma wanted to die; and leave me ALL their estate....I heard them say it once"...?

84 posted on 08/30/2003 9:49:00 AM PDT by lysie
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To: MHGinTN
I'll be thankful of more brainstorms of how to help Terri.
85 posted on 08/30/2003 9:52:09 AM PDT by pc93 (Murder of Terri Schindler by Michael Schiavo sanctioned by Jeb Bush and the Florida Supreme Court)
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To: pc93
Has anyone in Terri's family contacted 'Protective Services' to file a complaint of her being neglected? She isn't getting the prescribed therapy and she is being denied life supporting medical care by the 'person' who is her 'guardian'. If that were being doen to a child by a parent, Protective Services would be intervening with vigor once a complaint is filed.
86 posted on 08/30/2003 9:56:58 AM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Vinnie
That term is still used. I had a miscarriage before I knew I was pregnant several years ago. The doctor (who is very pro-life) was forced by hospital politics to tell me only that "there was tissue" when my D&C was performed after the miscarriage. In his office, before going to the hospital for the emergency procedure to stop the uncontrolled bleeding, we pre-arranged that if he said that I would know there had been a baby. (I had been bleeding for several days and the hormone levels had bottomed out, making a pregnancy test unreliable.) It killed him to have to do that, but that particular hospital is very PC.
87 posted on 08/30/2003 10:22:49 AM PDT by kimmie7 (I need more time, more coffee, and more bandwidth.)
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To: TheSpottedOwl
Will do, hon. Okay, (deep breath) here I go....

If you want on my brand new Terri Schiavo ping list or the "Euthanasia - Culture of Dealth" ping list, let me know via FReepmail. I'll automatically add those who have asked here.

88 posted on 08/30/2003 10:27:14 AM PDT by kimmie7 (I need more time, more coffee, and more bandwidth.)
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To: pc93
From the above link,posted by yhwhsman. A request by Jeb is not enough to persuade the judge. The Governor has to be willing to have the Attorney General bring an action by the state of Florida to investigate certain issues and support the right to life of this woman. I have e-mailed Crist and never got a reply. (Other than my e-mail had been received) JMO but this is a holiday weekend. What a perfect time for them to get away with this crime.
89 posted on 08/30/2003 10:30:32 AM PDT by RedRidingHood (...)
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To: RedRidingHood
That was my immediate thought. For those of you who haven't see it, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/971896/posts?page=234#234 Lots of good information whirling around. I would think that a FREEP of the Hospice would start some wheels turning.
90 posted on 08/30/2003 10:35:50 AM PDT by kimmie7 (I need more time, more coffee, and more bandwidth.)
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To: Mo1
This is disgusting. This is death by Judicial fiat!! Where is the Governor on this one???
91 posted on 08/30/2003 10:37:47 AM PDT by Canadian Outrage (All us Western Canuks belong South)
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To: Canadian Outrage
Hello to all! This is my first post to FR, but I have been lurking for several years now. To CO, the Governor has sent a letter to the Judge Greer, which Greer promptly posted into the circular file. I cannot think of a more heart-wrenching issue which needs to be addressed immediately by as many caring people as possible. Terri's time is almost up!! We must keep fighting for her and others like her!! This case brings to mind the saying, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
92 posted on 08/30/2003 10:53:59 AM PDT by Ohioan from Florida
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To: Ohioan from Florida
Welcome and Well said!! I suppose then, the People of Florida and other places as well, MUST insist that the Governor take independant action!! This looks to be a case of State sanctioned Murder. Once any country passes that point, it is doomed.
93 posted on 08/30/2003 10:58:29 AM PDT by Canadian Outrage (All us Western Canuks belong South)
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To: summer
ping
94 posted on 08/30/2003 11:17:51 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: dandelion
I download it and read it.

Governor Jeb Bush needs to see this IMMEDIATELY!

95 posted on 08/30/2003 11:19:43 AM PDT by expatguy
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To: syriacus
Justification for terminating all mentally retarded people?

Didn't the Nazis do the same thing?

96 posted on 08/30/2003 11:22:20 AM PDT by expatguy
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To: Canadian Outrage
I don't know how Michael Schiavo and George Felos is going to legally get away with this but they continue to play games with Terri's life. And this is what they call a guardian? Jeb Bush should be ashamed for letting this happen. He's probably kickin back on this Labor Day Weekend without a care.

From Pam Hennessey:

I'm almost speechless. Apparently, Mr. Schiavo refused to have Terri admitted to Morton Plant hospital this morning, after she was transported there under emergency circumstances in the early morning hours.

Terri is, once again, back at the Hospice facility in St Petersburg. Her immediate family are by her side.

I simply do not know what to say. Please forward along to others in case I've missed anyone.

-Pamela-

97 posted on 08/30/2003 12:11:42 PM PDT by pc93 (Murder of Terri Schindler by Michael Schiavo sanctioned by Jeb Bush and the Florida Supreme Court)
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To: Don Joe; kimmie7
Good post, kimmie.

Re: That t.v. interview earlier this week (I partially taped) was Fox News' Cavuto, and the attorney he talked with was Felos. And Felos said, the money was "long since gone." Cavuto didn't question him further on the money angle - was any of the malpractice award used to pay Michael's legal bills, etc?

Now I'm reading that there is $350,000 left. Have also read that Michael's attorney was in charge, had control, of the money. Whatever, I'd like to see an audit.

I wonder how Michael came to hire Felos, did they know each other before? Is Felos the attorney who filed the malpractice suit?

98 posted on 08/30/2003 12:32:08 PM PDT by lakey (It's the Constitution, stupid!)
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To: expatguy
Justification for terminating all mentally retarded people?

At this rate there will be justification for terminating any adult who can't earn his own keep.

Too many of the elderly already think the world would be better off without them, that they are too much trouble, etc. I wish they would realize that an attitude like that is wrong.

They are not only portraying their lives as worthless. By extension, they are buying into the argument that people who are severely handicapped are worthless.

It's important for people to realize that all humans are precious. If any "class" of human beings is not considered "innately" worthy of life, then all classes of humans lack an innate worthiness.

Some people were right when they warned we would start down a "slippery slope" at the time abortion was liberalized.

99 posted on 08/30/2003 12:55:55 PM PDT by syriacus (Return, O Lord. How long? Ps 90:13)
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To: syriacus
I can forward this e-mail to anyone who asks. It has links on it to documents.

---

Contact: Pamela Hennessy
Phone 727-445-1766
email: phenn@zimp.org
1133 Drew Street
Clearwater, FL 33755

Press Release

Terri Schiavo case moves to the Federal level

Federal Court grants emergency hearing in the case of disabled Florida woman.

Clearwater, FL August 30, 2003: On Saturday, August 30, 2003, a Federal District Court Judge in Tampa scheduled an emergency hearing in the case of Terri Schindler-Schiavo, a disabled woman whose husband has petitioned the courts to end her life by the removal of her feeding tube. This hearing is scheduled for Tuesday, September 2, 2003 at the Federal Courthouse in Tampa.

In an emergency motion, the attorney representing Bob and Mary Schindler of Gulf Port, Florida (Ms. Schiavo’s parents), asked the court to issue an injunction allowing Ms. Schiavo’s parents access to her medical information, continuance of medically necessary treatment and several other issues that relate to Ms. Schiavo’s care.

On Tuesday, August 26, 2003, Pinellas Circuit Judge George Greer ordered that Terri’s current medical treatment would not be interrupted. However, on Friday, August 29, 2003, Ms. Schiavo had been released from Morton Plant and sent back to the Hospice facility in St Petersburg where she is a resident.

During the early morning hours of Saturday, August 30, 2003, Ms. Schiavo was transported back to Morton Plant under emergency circumstances. Apparently, her husband denied her admittance to the hospital and she has since been sent back to Hospice Woodside in St Petersburg.

Links to Documents:

Federal Order

Affidavit C. Johnson

Affidavit H. Law

Affidavit C. Iyer

Affidavit R. Schindler, Sr.

Please phone if you prefer fax documents

IMPORTANT: During this very difficult time, please direct interview requests for the Schindler family to:

Media Contact:
Pamela F. Hennessy
727-445-1766 Land
727-430-6236 Cel
phenn@zimp.org email
100 posted on 08/30/2003 1:19:08 PM PDT by pc93 (Murder of Terri Schindler by Michael Schiavo sanctioned by Jeb Bush and the Florida Supreme Court)
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