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"Sexually Inclusive Christians" Celebrate Victories, Push for More
Institute on Religion and Democracy ^ | Mark Tooley

Posted on 08/30/2003 5:48:16 PM PDT by xzins

"Sexually Inclusive Christians" Celebrate Victories, Push for More

Mark Tooley August 22, 2003

When arguing for church acceptance of homosexuality, most advocates talk about monogamy. But others are bolder.

“I am a strong ally of those in healthy, polyamorous relationships,” declared Debra Kolodny. She argued that having multiple sexual partners can be “holy.” Kolodyn was leading a workshop at the WOW (Witness Our Welcome) 2003 convention, an ecumenical gathering for “sexually and gender inclusive Christians.”

Hundreds of homosexual, bisexual, and heterosexual people gathered under the “queer” banner in Philadelphia August 14-17 to urge religious acceptance of non-traditional sexual behaviors.

According to WOW’s schedule brochure, it was sponsored by the homosexual caucus groups in most mainline Protestant denominations and Dignity USA (for Roman Catholics). Other supporting groups listed in the program included People for the American Way, the Human Rights Campaign, McCormick Theological Seminary (Presbyterian), Episcopal Divinity School, Chicago Theological Seminary (United Church of Christ), and Wesley Theological Seminary (United Methodist).

According to the president of Wesley seminary, Wesley paid a fee for a table with promotional material at WOW 2003. But Wesley did not endorse or give financial support to WOW beyond this fee.

Kolodny, an author and former national coordinator for The National Bisexual Network, was leading a workshop called “Blessed Bi Spirit: Bisexual People of Faith.” Although focusing mostly on bisexuality, Kolodny, who is Jewish, explained that she could not conclude the session without discussing polyamory.

“There can be fidelity in threesomes,” Kolodny said. “It can be just as sanctified as anything else if all parties are agreed.” But she was careful to stress that polyamory is unacceptable “if there is deceit.”

Kolodny said polyamory does not usually involve simultaneous group sex. But there are exceptions, she admitted, as she recalled a friend of hers who shares a bed with his wife and male partner. When asked by a workshop participant how polyamory was different from “recreational sex,” Kolodny responded that consensual recreational sex could be a part of polyamory. But polyamory usually involves some level of commitment and intimacy.

Noting she herself had never been polyamorous, Kolodny explained that as a busy attorney she simply did not have time to conduct the complicated “negotiations” necessary for “holy” polyamory. But she expressed admiration for persons with the time to organize.

Most of Kolodny’s talk was about bisexuality, not polyamory. “I disagree with the queer movement [when it claims] that sexual orientation is predetermined,” Kolodny said, asserting that the existence of bisexuality “challenges all that.”

“I know a lot of women who chose to become lesbian,” Kolodny said. “Love between two people is always beautiful,” she added, and should be regarded as part of free choice.

“I’m not sure we can make the case for genetic predetermination,” Kolodny stressed, saying sexual preference depends on opportunity, support, and spiritual experiences.

Kolodny lamented that the “queer” movement insists on the “party line” of genetic predetermination as part of a “political strategy.”

“The queer movement relies on, ‘We can’t help it. We’re born this way,’ Kolodny said. “It feels so safe. If you don’t say it you’re thrown to the lions and you’re evil.”

She contrasted the insistence on genetic predetermination with the teachings of Judaism and Christianity, which say: “God gives us choices.”

“Free will is essential to our humanity and essential to our being created in the image of God,” Kolodny said. She charged that denying free choice in sex preference was “perpetuating the hetero-patriarchy,” helping the “radical right,” ignoring bisexuality, and making it easier for “hate” to continue.

Rather than creating “absolute poles” of sexual preference, Kolodny said the world includes a wide spectrum of choices. She recalled the hostility of her “dyke” friends when she abandoned her strict lesbianism for bisexuality. Many homosexuals suspect bisexuals of trying to gain the “privileges” of the hetero-patriarchy by seeking sexual partners of the opposite gender.

Another workshop leader who addressed a sexual minority sometimes forgotten by the “queer” movement was the Rev. Erin Swenson, formerly Eric. Swenson is a Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) minister and family counselor whose sex change operation made Swenson the first post-operative transsexual minister in a major denomination.

Swenson was married with children. But after suffering for years from a desire to be a woman, Swenson finally divorced and had the operation. “I don’t recommend that any one become transgender,” Swenson said. “It’s a very painful process.”

“Some people accuse me of not being a woman,” Swenson complained, citing “ultra-feminists.” Swenson prefers being called simply “Erin and a child of God” to any label. “High heels are very uncomfortable,” Swenson playfully admitted.

“Transgender people won’t come to your church unless they truly know they are safe there,” Swenson warned. Even ostensibly “gay” friendly congregations are sometimes not prepared for transgender people. “Get your church to be trans friendly,” Swenson urged. One need is for bathrooms not marked male or female.

Swenson described the United Church of Christ as “miles ahead of anybody” in making itself open to transgender people. The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), in contrast, declined Swenson’s offer to volunteer in the creation of church resource materials for transgender church members.

“Transgendered people threaten communities because they threaten our assumptions,” Swenson concluded. “It is threatening but also freeing.”

Leading a workshop on “Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Questioning Issues in the Roman Catholic Church,” Mary Louise Cervone complained that tolerance rather than justice” is the norm in America today. A former president of Dignity USA, Cervone, with her same-sex partner at her side, wondered how many “nameless men and women” must die before this country moves beyond tolerance to freedom for all people.

“Our best hope for change rests not with bishops and the pope but with Catholic people,” Cervone insisted. “Change won’t come form the top down. The Catholic people must demand freedom.

Cervone affirmed her lesbianism as a “gift of God.” She confessed she has a hard time attending the Catholic Church, because the “church is not where we find freedom. It’s where we go to hide.”

“But you can’t kick me out,” Cervone declared defiantly. “Where in religion did we get the idea that some people are more worthy than others?” she wondered.

The Rev. Jorge Lockwood, who is Global Praise Coordinator for the United Methodist Church’s Board of Global Ministries, led a workshop called “Redeeming Our Bodies, Congregational Song as a Path of Liberation.”

“As queer people, we have another way of looking at the body,” Lockwood said. He complained that churches too often are uncomfortable with the human body and suffer from “liturgical constipation.” He observed that too often people think the “desire of a 25 year old gay man for another 25 year old man is a beautiful thing,” but the desire of a 65 year old for a 25 year is “dirty.”

“We have all learned to challenge Romans,” said the Rev. Mari Castellanos, referring to St. Paul’s letter that, among other Scriptures, is critical of homosexual behavior. Castellanos leads the Justice and Witness Ministries of the United Church of Christ. “We must do likewise with all texts that go against our brothers and sisters that are being claimed as the unerring Word of God.”

But Castellanos also urged the WOW 2003 audience to embrace “justice” issues beyond their own. “When we leave this earth, queer bishops won’t matter as much as whether the hungry are fed,” she insisted, to applause.

“This president and this Congress have systematically torn down the social net that sustained all of us,” Castellanos mourned. “We must lobby our government on behalf of the poor of the world. Our experience of exile has taught us compassion.”

Castellanos promised that “we will take on scary proposals such as the Marriage Protection Act. We will turn the tide that threatens to obliterate the social contract.” Echoing the name of a radical homosexual group, she insisted: “We must continue to act-up!”

Rev. Yvette Flunder, a United Church of Christ pastor from San Francisco, celebrated a string of political victories for pro-homosexuality advocates, including the election of an Episcopal Church homosexual bishop, the arrival of legalized same-sex unions in Canada, and the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling against anti-sodomy laws.

“The Holy Ghost can break loose in an atmosphere of injustice and give us more justice in three weeks than many years!” Flunder enthused. “These wouldn’t have been miracles under Bill Clinton!” she exclaimed, citing the irony of pro-homosexuality strides under a conservative government.

The Rev. Troy Perry, founder of the predominantly homosexual Metropolitan Community Churches, asked all the heterosexuals at WOW 2003 to stand and receive applause. “Thank you!!... I know what people do to you,” he told them, saying they pay a price for solidarity with homosexuals.

Perry said he “just got married” to his male partner of 18 years, who has had AIDS for several years. He likened the plight of homosexuals who cannot legally marry to slaves who also had no legal right to marriage.

“I will not give up until every one of us can marry,” Perry insisted, comparing Heaven to attending the WOW 2003 conference.

A brief skit produced for the WOW 2003 audience showed three troubled disciples in a storm-tossed boat. One, a young woman, declares: “I am bisexual and can’t find acceptance in the gay community.” A man says, “I am a 19 year old gay. Or am I queer? And I’m Presbyterian. But I’m not sure what that means!” A third person complains she is age 22 but cannot “find a voice” in the gay community.

Then a figure representing Jesus appears, played by a young woman wrapped in the rainbow flag, which is the emblem of the homosexual movement. “Take heart, it is I,” she says. “Do not be afraid.”


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; activistcourts; activistsupremecourt; ageofconsent; ageofconsentlaws; antireligion; bisexuality; bisexuals; catholiclist; christianity; christians; churchofsatan; crowley; culturewar; doasthouwill; downourthroats; gaymenschorus; gaytrolldolls; gomorah; groupsex; hedonists; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; homosexuals; ifitfeelsgooddoit; insanity; lawrence; lawrencevtexas; libertines; losttheirway; makeachoice; marriagelaws; mockeryofreligion; offthepath; orgies; orgy; pedophile; permissivesociety; polyamorous; polyamory; polygamy; prisoners; privacylaws; promiscuity; prositutionlaws; religion; religiousleft; samesexmarriage; satan; satanisstrong; serpentinthegarden; sexlaws; sexuality; sin; sinandsinners; sodom; sodomites; sodomy; sodomylaws; teensex; temptation; unrepentantsinners; usualsuspects
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To: nobdysfool; Cvengr; drstevej
***Then perhaps you aren't saved yet.***
395 posted on 08/17/2003 11:11 PM EDT by Cvengr (0:^))


You know, after watching this pompous peacock for a while, it is quite evident that his pride as got the best of him. The thing is that, with is refusal to acknowledge that he was clearly wrong for challenging your salvation from your orthodox confession and apologize, all he seems to be revealing is that he may be the one who is self-deceived.

Personally, I'd advise you to let 1 Co 5:11 guide you for Cvengr's slander against you.

Woody.
361 posted on 09/05/2003 6:28:04 AM PDT by CCWoody (Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
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To: nobdysfool
If you thought I didn't understand what you were saying, then it was your responsibility to clear that up with clear language, not to turn around and question my standing before God, and doing so publicly.

This is exactly what was provided not out of any responsibility to do so, but out of an impersonal love and a brotherly love for any man. You have a choice to accept it, .

Post #350 on this thread may provide you a short version.

The original is probably better stated at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/963672/posts?page=395#395

Again a shorter version was posted on that thread at #402.

Perhaps it's better to drop the entire issue and place the entire issue in His hands. You might find the topics of 'rebound' and 'faith-rest' worth studying. God Bless.

362 posted on 09/05/2003 6:33:27 AM PDT by Cvengr (0:^))
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To: Coleus
108
363 posted on 09/05/2003 6:39:54 AM PDT by EdReform (Support Free Republic - Become a Monthly Donor)
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To: CCWoody
Woody, you may want to go back and read the entire thread in context and also place the 'quoted' post in context of the post itself.

There was a situation where things eternal, of the spirit, were being discerned and one party had argued that truthfully a situation arose (yet from the spirit would not be considered true) speaking from a soulish perspective, not paying attention or perhaps not even aware of things of the spirit.

There's only 2 options to explain this if the person was truthful.

One option is that the person who sincerely believes something is true, but not cognizant of the spirit, is indeed perhaps not yet saved.

The second option is that they are saved, but have fallen in sin and not yet confessed or repented that sin, consequently, although indwelt by the Holy Spirit, not filled with the Spirit. Again, the person's perspective of truth might also omit things of the spirit.

The remainder of post #395 on that thread explained that. Numerous other posts on that thread tried to explain that and were written with attempt after attempt not to condone contrived argument or repay evil with evil.

I haven't judged anybody elses salvation.

Even if a man does that (Other than Christ in His Divinity), it would be immaterial, without effect, lacking any force, impotent, and mute. So even if somebody sincerely believes they have been affronted, if indeed saved or in fellowship with Him, there would be no impact or affront or offense even received.

This is why those words were chosen. If I had suggested he was fallen away, he naturally from a soulish perspective would have taken the defensive.

I could have assumed he was lying, but that I felt was unneccessary and perhaps a false assumption, so I gave a benefit of doubt that he was truthful. One option he would reject and I would only give him cause to remain reprobate. The only other option was to remark a possibility, which if saved, he obviously would understand to not be true, but would query how such a position could be held. The only answer would be the recognition of a degenerate state and a Spirit led desire to return to Him.

If this doesn't happen, that's always between him and God. Nobody else.

Now why would any other person attempt to encourage any other behavior?

364 posted on 09/05/2003 6:54:35 AM PDT by Cvengr (0:^))
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To: Cvengr; CCWoody; drstevej; Frumanchu; Wrigley; CARepubGal; snerkel
There's only 2 options to explain this if the person was truthful. One option is that the person who sincerely believes something is true, but not cognizant of the spirit, is indeed perhaps not yet saved. The second option is that they are saved, but have fallen in sin and not yet confessed or repented that sin, consequently, although indwelt by the Holy Spirit, not filled with the Spirit. Again, the person's perspective of truth might also omit things of the spirit.

You missed an option: Option three, the other person is wrong, and it is their theology that is defective, not the person in option 1 or 2. That is the option you are unwilling to consider, and is in fact, the true dynamic of what is transpiring here. You are judging me by your defective theology vis-a-vis free will and the nature of fallen man. In your view, my response to you can only be viewed as, (a) I am not saved, or (b) I may be saved, but not in right standing with God due to unconfessed sin. Your whole spectrum is skewed, because you do not allow for the possibility that there may be option (c), that your view is wrong, and your understanding of free will is faulty, and therefore (a) and (b) could not and do not apply, and that you have impuned my standing before God unjustly and without due cause.

In all this, you will not consider the one thing that would bring peace and put an end to the misunderstanding. Even if you believe yourself to be blameless, what is the harm in apologizing sincerely for the offense that is perceived, not only in my heart, but in the minds of those who also interact here? It is not only I who feels I have been wronged, but others as well, feel and perceive that you have wronged me. Only you can correct that, and in only one way.

365 posted on 09/05/2003 7:32:01 AM PDT by nobdysfool (All men are born Arminians...the Christian ones that grow up become Calvinists...)
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To: Cvengr; nobdysfool; drstevej
I was there when it happened. I even interacted with you on the subject. I have no plan on going back.

Woody.

BTW, I am giving serious thought to continuing to completely ignore you in the future. Your refractory spirit and your unrepentant nature seem to clearly reveal that you are not currently submitting to the Lord. You seem dead set against a peaceful co-existence with the saints. So, where does that leave you? Well, I'll happily leave you to wallow in the middle of these idiotic doctrines you have been spamming us with.
366 posted on 09/05/2003 7:40:36 AM PDT by CCWoody (Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
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To: Cvengr; CCWoody; drstevej; Frumanchu; Wrigley; CARepubGal; snerkel; RnMomof7
This is exactly what was provided not out of any responsibility to do so, but out of an impersonal love and a brotherly love for any man. You have a choice to accept it,

Clear explanation, free from terminology that is ambiguous and easily misconstrued is the way you clear up misunderstandings, not heaping more of the same confusing and obscure words on top of what caused the confusion in the first place. Maybe it was clear to you, from your perspective, but not to me or to others here. You fell short in that regard.

Perhaps it's better to drop the entire issue and place the entire issue in His hands. You might find the topics of 'rebound' and 'faith-rest' worth studying. God Bless.

Perhaps the topics of humility and avoiding giving of offense would be good topics of study for you. As for dropping the entire issue, that is not your decision to make. I, and others, have some serious issue with the doctrines you espouse. My love for the Truth will not allow me to be silent where I see error being passed off as truth, and that by someone who, when confronted with a challenge to his doctrine, attempts to turn the tables by impuning the challenger's standing before God.

367 posted on 09/05/2003 8:04:04 AM PDT by nobdysfool (All men are born Arminians...the Christian ones that grow up become Calvinists...)
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To: xzins; BibChr
Thanks for the rant. It demonstrates the difficulty of any balance. Arnold Schwarzeneggar flunks the test. I find the choice in CA to be intriguing. Vote for a bad guy who is a baby killer. Vote for OUR "star" who is a baby killer. Or vote for OUR loser who is a baby saver and theonomically sound in other areas. Conservatives are told to ignore McClintock in favor of Arnold. Many of them are going that route. To date, I've not heard a single conservative principle espoused by Arnie.

Well, that's because Arnold does not espouse any Conservative principles. (shrugs and grins -- seems obvious to me).

Arnold espouses Center-Left principles (weighted towards the center economically, and towards the left socially) -- as opposed to Bustamante, who espouses Hard-Left principles.

Now, as I do not live in California, I am relatively uninterested in the California Recall Election -- except to the extent it sucks away media attention from the Democratic candidates for President, which is arguably a good thing. However, I don't really consider the choice in California to be all that difficult -- to me, it's simply a question of What You Want to accomplish with your vote.

I can understand voters like BibChr who hold their nose and vote GOP. It's not me (except when the GOP guy really is the best on the slate, which did actually happen fairly often when I lived in rural Virginia), but I can understand it on tactical, pragmatic grounds.

What I don't understand is, if one is perfectly comfortable with the GOP losing anyway... why vote McClintock? Why not just go all the way and vote Constitution??

Honest question, not baiting at all.

368 posted on 09/05/2003 2:28:45 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty.)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Whoa.

I've made that exact same final statement.

Dan
369 posted on 09/05/2003 3:21:48 PM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: CCWoody
"Your refractory spirit..."

Thanks for the complement. I always loved Shadrach, Mishach, and Abendigo and that Refractory Spirit leading them to Paradise.

370 posted on 09/05/2003 4:16:58 PM PDT by Cvengr (0:^))
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To: nobdysfool
Truth will not allow me to be silent where I see error being passed off as truth,...

Love is perseverant and I applaud your desire for His truth. Rejoice Christian.

371 posted on 09/05/2003 4:20:14 PM PDT by Cvengr (0:^))
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To: Cvengr; CCWoody; drstevej; Frumanchu; Wrigley; CARepubGal; snerkel
Love is perseverant and I applaud your desire for His truth. Rejoice Christian.

??? Why do you adopt the "doting granfather" bit with me? That's almost as insulting as your questioning my salvation. Your attitude just reeks of superiority and "I'm so far above you". Do you have any idea how you sound to others? Any idea at all? If you want people to take you seriously, you need to cut the superior act and quit speaking "down" to us. You're not all that high and lofty, despite your attitude. It's as phony as a three dollar bill!

The only point in your favor is that you actually referred to me as a Christian. It's a step in the right direction....

372 posted on 09/05/2003 4:47:20 PM PDT by nobdysfool (All men are born Arminians...the Christian ones that grow up become Calvinists...)
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To: xzins; Jerry_M; Romulus; wideawake
Conservatives in California are being told to lie down and prostrate themselves before Arnold and Maria.

It is nauseating the way that the mainstream RINO establishment is marginalizing Tom McClintock, who is stalwart and salted on all the right issues.

California conservatives are being shouted at, intimidated, ridiculed and told to "sit down and shut up" even though McClintock holds the high-moral ground.

All in the name of "Pragmatism", that specific Americanist idol.

373 posted on 09/06/2003 3:48:46 PM PDT by Aggressive Calvinist
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To: Aggressive Calvinist
Schwarzenegger is a self-proclaimed enemy of traditional morality and also an enemy of fiscal conservatism.

There is no reason any Republican who cares about the party would ever want this individual to gain prominence within it.

374 posted on 09/06/2003 10:17:03 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
As a non-Californian, my interest in California's governor election is due to a couple of things. One is the intriguing choice being presented to conservatives, especially to conservative Chrisitians. The 2nd reason is some hope that a different administration might care about national security in this age of terrorists and try to stem the unchecked illegal immigration. The 3rd reason is simply the size of California's economy and the effect it has on the rest of the nation for good or ill. The 4th reason is the number of voices California gets to send to our House of Representatives. It'd be nice to get rid of some of the radical socialist votes that are coming out of that state.

I don't see Schwarzeneggar helping with any of the above. He's going to campaign on his star-power, and I think that a real candidate in the race who isn't an anti-black, race baiting, hate-America-first, Mexifornia advocate like Bustamante or a male bimbo moral reprobate like Arnie JUST MIGHT attract a few reasonable voters and really win.

I have no problem with throwing a bunch of votes to the Constitution Party UNLESS that 85-90% conservative has a realistic chance of winning IF he soundly defeats the bimbo and has the "party-minded" RINOs throw their support to him.

375 posted on 09/08/2003 2:54:51 AM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning Was the Word!)
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Comment #376 Removed by Moderator

To: xzins
“Transgender people won’t come to your church unless they truly know they are safe there,” Swenson warned..."

PROMISE? I've got something for ye, if ye wish to come...
377 posted on 12/14/2003 12:32:37 AM PST by tinacart ((I STILL hate hitlery!))
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Comment #378 Removed by Moderator


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