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"Sexually Inclusive Christians" Celebrate Victories, Push for More
Institute on Religion and Democracy ^ | Mark Tooley

Posted on 08/30/2003 5:48:16 PM PDT by xzins

"Sexually Inclusive Christians" Celebrate Victories, Push for More

Mark Tooley August 22, 2003

When arguing for church acceptance of homosexuality, most advocates talk about monogamy. But others are bolder.

“I am a strong ally of those in healthy, polyamorous relationships,” declared Debra Kolodny. She argued that having multiple sexual partners can be “holy.” Kolodyn was leading a workshop at the WOW (Witness Our Welcome) 2003 convention, an ecumenical gathering for “sexually and gender inclusive Christians.”

Hundreds of homosexual, bisexual, and heterosexual people gathered under the “queer” banner in Philadelphia August 14-17 to urge religious acceptance of non-traditional sexual behaviors.

According to WOW’s schedule brochure, it was sponsored by the homosexual caucus groups in most mainline Protestant denominations and Dignity USA (for Roman Catholics). Other supporting groups listed in the program included People for the American Way, the Human Rights Campaign, McCormick Theological Seminary (Presbyterian), Episcopal Divinity School, Chicago Theological Seminary (United Church of Christ), and Wesley Theological Seminary (United Methodist).

According to the president of Wesley seminary, Wesley paid a fee for a table with promotional material at WOW 2003. But Wesley did not endorse or give financial support to WOW beyond this fee.

Kolodny, an author and former national coordinator for The National Bisexual Network, was leading a workshop called “Blessed Bi Spirit: Bisexual People of Faith.” Although focusing mostly on bisexuality, Kolodny, who is Jewish, explained that she could not conclude the session without discussing polyamory.

“There can be fidelity in threesomes,” Kolodny said. “It can be just as sanctified as anything else if all parties are agreed.” But she was careful to stress that polyamory is unacceptable “if there is deceit.”

Kolodny said polyamory does not usually involve simultaneous group sex. But there are exceptions, she admitted, as she recalled a friend of hers who shares a bed with his wife and male partner. When asked by a workshop participant how polyamory was different from “recreational sex,” Kolodny responded that consensual recreational sex could be a part of polyamory. But polyamory usually involves some level of commitment and intimacy.

Noting she herself had never been polyamorous, Kolodny explained that as a busy attorney she simply did not have time to conduct the complicated “negotiations” necessary for “holy” polyamory. But she expressed admiration for persons with the time to organize.

Most of Kolodny’s talk was about bisexuality, not polyamory. “I disagree with the queer movement [when it claims] that sexual orientation is predetermined,” Kolodny said, asserting that the existence of bisexuality “challenges all that.”

“I know a lot of women who chose to become lesbian,” Kolodny said. “Love between two people is always beautiful,” she added, and should be regarded as part of free choice.

“I’m not sure we can make the case for genetic predetermination,” Kolodny stressed, saying sexual preference depends on opportunity, support, and spiritual experiences.

Kolodny lamented that the “queer” movement insists on the “party line” of genetic predetermination as part of a “political strategy.”

“The queer movement relies on, ‘We can’t help it. We’re born this way,’ Kolodny said. “It feels so safe. If you don’t say it you’re thrown to the lions and you’re evil.”

She contrasted the insistence on genetic predetermination with the teachings of Judaism and Christianity, which say: “God gives us choices.”

“Free will is essential to our humanity and essential to our being created in the image of God,” Kolodny said. She charged that denying free choice in sex preference was “perpetuating the hetero-patriarchy,” helping the “radical right,” ignoring bisexuality, and making it easier for “hate” to continue.

Rather than creating “absolute poles” of sexual preference, Kolodny said the world includes a wide spectrum of choices. She recalled the hostility of her “dyke” friends when she abandoned her strict lesbianism for bisexuality. Many homosexuals suspect bisexuals of trying to gain the “privileges” of the hetero-patriarchy by seeking sexual partners of the opposite gender.

Another workshop leader who addressed a sexual minority sometimes forgotten by the “queer” movement was the Rev. Erin Swenson, formerly Eric. Swenson is a Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) minister and family counselor whose sex change operation made Swenson the first post-operative transsexual minister in a major denomination.

Swenson was married with children. But after suffering for years from a desire to be a woman, Swenson finally divorced and had the operation. “I don’t recommend that any one become transgender,” Swenson said. “It’s a very painful process.”

“Some people accuse me of not being a woman,” Swenson complained, citing “ultra-feminists.” Swenson prefers being called simply “Erin and a child of God” to any label. “High heels are very uncomfortable,” Swenson playfully admitted.

“Transgender people won’t come to your church unless they truly know they are safe there,” Swenson warned. Even ostensibly “gay” friendly congregations are sometimes not prepared for transgender people. “Get your church to be trans friendly,” Swenson urged. One need is for bathrooms not marked male or female.

Swenson described the United Church of Christ as “miles ahead of anybody” in making itself open to transgender people. The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), in contrast, declined Swenson’s offer to volunteer in the creation of church resource materials for transgender church members.

“Transgendered people threaten communities because they threaten our assumptions,” Swenson concluded. “It is threatening but also freeing.”

Leading a workshop on “Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Questioning Issues in the Roman Catholic Church,” Mary Louise Cervone complained that tolerance rather than justice” is the norm in America today. A former president of Dignity USA, Cervone, with her same-sex partner at her side, wondered how many “nameless men and women” must die before this country moves beyond tolerance to freedom for all people.

“Our best hope for change rests not with bishops and the pope but with Catholic people,” Cervone insisted. “Change won’t come form the top down. The Catholic people must demand freedom.

Cervone affirmed her lesbianism as a “gift of God.” She confessed she has a hard time attending the Catholic Church, because the “church is not where we find freedom. It’s where we go to hide.”

“But you can’t kick me out,” Cervone declared defiantly. “Where in religion did we get the idea that some people are more worthy than others?” she wondered.

The Rev. Jorge Lockwood, who is Global Praise Coordinator for the United Methodist Church’s Board of Global Ministries, led a workshop called “Redeeming Our Bodies, Congregational Song as a Path of Liberation.”

“As queer people, we have another way of looking at the body,” Lockwood said. He complained that churches too often are uncomfortable with the human body and suffer from “liturgical constipation.” He observed that too often people think the “desire of a 25 year old gay man for another 25 year old man is a beautiful thing,” but the desire of a 65 year old for a 25 year is “dirty.”

“We have all learned to challenge Romans,” said the Rev. Mari Castellanos, referring to St. Paul’s letter that, among other Scriptures, is critical of homosexual behavior. Castellanos leads the Justice and Witness Ministries of the United Church of Christ. “We must do likewise with all texts that go against our brothers and sisters that are being claimed as the unerring Word of God.”

But Castellanos also urged the WOW 2003 audience to embrace “justice” issues beyond their own. “When we leave this earth, queer bishops won’t matter as much as whether the hungry are fed,” she insisted, to applause.

“This president and this Congress have systematically torn down the social net that sustained all of us,” Castellanos mourned. “We must lobby our government on behalf of the poor of the world. Our experience of exile has taught us compassion.”

Castellanos promised that “we will take on scary proposals such as the Marriage Protection Act. We will turn the tide that threatens to obliterate the social contract.” Echoing the name of a radical homosexual group, she insisted: “We must continue to act-up!”

Rev. Yvette Flunder, a United Church of Christ pastor from San Francisco, celebrated a string of political victories for pro-homosexuality advocates, including the election of an Episcopal Church homosexual bishop, the arrival of legalized same-sex unions in Canada, and the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling against anti-sodomy laws.

“The Holy Ghost can break loose in an atmosphere of injustice and give us more justice in three weeks than many years!” Flunder enthused. “These wouldn’t have been miracles under Bill Clinton!” she exclaimed, citing the irony of pro-homosexuality strides under a conservative government.

The Rev. Troy Perry, founder of the predominantly homosexual Metropolitan Community Churches, asked all the heterosexuals at WOW 2003 to stand and receive applause. “Thank you!!... I know what people do to you,” he told them, saying they pay a price for solidarity with homosexuals.

Perry said he “just got married” to his male partner of 18 years, who has had AIDS for several years. He likened the plight of homosexuals who cannot legally marry to slaves who also had no legal right to marriage.

“I will not give up until every one of us can marry,” Perry insisted, comparing Heaven to attending the WOW 2003 conference.

A brief skit produced for the WOW 2003 audience showed three troubled disciples in a storm-tossed boat. One, a young woman, declares: “I am bisexual and can’t find acceptance in the gay community.” A man says, “I am a 19 year old gay. Or am I queer? And I’m Presbyterian. But I’m not sure what that means!” A third person complains she is age 22 but cannot “find a voice” in the gay community.

Then a figure representing Jesus appears, played by a young woman wrapped in the rainbow flag, which is the emblem of the homosexual movement. “Take heart, it is I,” she says. “Do not be afraid.”


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; activistcourts; activistsupremecourt; ageofconsent; ageofconsentlaws; antireligion; bisexuality; bisexuals; catholiclist; christianity; christians; churchofsatan; crowley; culturewar; doasthouwill; downourthroats; gaymenschorus; gaytrolldolls; gomorah; groupsex; hedonists; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; homosexuals; ifitfeelsgooddoit; insanity; lawrence; lawrencevtexas; libertines; losttheirway; makeachoice; marriagelaws; mockeryofreligion; offthepath; orgies; orgy; pedophile; permissivesociety; polyamorous; polyamory; polygamy; prisoners; privacylaws; promiscuity; prositutionlaws; religion; religiousleft; samesexmarriage; satan; satanisstrong; serpentinthegarden; sexlaws; sexuality; sin; sinandsinners; sodom; sodomites; sodomy; sodomylaws; teensex; temptation; unrepentantsinners; usualsuspects
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It was just a matter of time.
1 posted on 08/30/2003 5:48:17 PM PDT by xzins
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To: Revelation 911; The Grammarian; SpookBrat; Dust in the Wind; JesseShurun; maestro; patent; ...
ping to article
2 posted on 08/30/2003 5:49:58 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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To: Cathryn Crawford
Okay, so now what are we going to do?
3 posted on 08/30/2003 5:50:19 PM PDT by Scenic Sounds
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To: xzins
Santorum looks like a prophet now.
4 posted on 08/30/2003 5:51:53 PM PDT by thoughtomator (Arafat must go!)
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To: xzins
“Free will is essential to our humanity and essential to our being created in the image of God,” Kolodny said.

Thanks for the post. I will add it to the ever growing complaint I have with the modern American Religion and her Arminian/Pelagian/Free Will soteriology.

5 posted on 08/30/2003 5:53:39 PM PDT by Dr Warmoose
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To: thoughtomator
Santorum is honest, especially given that he has to operate in Pennsylvania. It is not really a bible belt state.

Lawrence v Texas is only the beginning....only the beginning.
6 posted on 08/30/2003 5:55:00 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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To: xzins
They are moving being plain vanilla homosexuality to multi'partner free love bisexuality.

Didn;t take them long to start pushing for more forms of perversion, did it?

Once the Church endorses one perversion, they imply thre validity of all perversions. Political pressure and corrupted church officials will determine which perversion is holy and which remain a perversion.
7 posted on 08/30/2003 5:57:30 PM PDT by At _War_With_Liberals (If Hillary ever takes the oath of office, she will be the last President the US will ever have. -RR)
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To: xzins
Debra Kolodny. She argued that having multiple sexual partners can be “holy.”

8 posted on 08/30/2003 5:57:58 PM PDT by BenLurkin (Socialism is slavery)
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To: xzins
wacko false liberal churches three bags of vomit alert...
9 posted on 08/30/2003 5:58:39 PM PDT by cyborg (i'm half and half... me mum is a muggle and me dad is a witch)
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To: Dr Warmoose
Most of Kolodny’s talk was about bisexuality, not polyamory. “I disagree with the queer movement [when it claims] that sexual orientation is predetermined,” Kolodny said, asserting that the existence of bisexuality “challenges all that.” “I know a lot of women who chose to become lesbian,” Kolodny said. “Love between two people is always beautiful,” she added, and should be regarded as part of free choice. “I’m not sure we can make the case for genetic predetermination,” Kolodny stressed, saying sexual preference depends on opportunity, support, and spiritual experiences.

What precedes and follows it isn't really pretty, either. They throw the "genetic" argument out the window because they know that their position is "if it feels good do it" with however many you like.

Let you libido go go....

10 posted on 08/30/2003 6:00:55 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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To: xzins
“Free will is essential to our humanity and essential to our being created in the image of God,” Kolodny said. She charged that denying free choice in sex preference was “perpetuating the hetero-patriarchy,” helping the “radical right,” ignoring bisexuality, and making it easier for “hate” to continue.

Libertarian free will used to justify autonomous human behavior. The Creator of the universe finds their behavior to be an abomination. Do they care? No. They create an idol in their own image instead of submitting to the revelation of God.

11 posted on 08/30/2003 6:02:44 PM PDT by RochesterFan
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To: xzins
But after suffering for years from a desire to be a woman, Swenson finally divorced and had the operation. “I don’t recommend that any one become transgender,” Swenson said. “It’s a very painful process.”

UNDERSTATEMENT of the millennium!
12 posted on 08/30/2003 6:02:59 PM PDT by BabaOreally
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To: At _War_With_Liberals
The "gay" churches ALREADY use the words "bi-sexual and trans-sexual" when they speak of "inclusiveness and justice."

Bi-sexuality MUST by definition allow for at least 2 other partners for the bi-sexual. It is a subset of polyamory, so it's natural that polyamory come up for approval by these folks.

13 posted on 08/30/2003 6:03:44 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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To: xzins
Kolodny said polyamory does not usually involve simultaneous group sex. But there are exceptions . . .

Ah, so Arnold is really just another person of faith! Isn't the (Mystical) Body way cool???

14 posted on 08/30/2003 6:04:05 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: BenLurkin; cyborg
You've nailed it...both of you

I'd add "evil" to your definition. I'm beyond believing that these people are just misguided or unaware.

15 posted on 08/30/2003 6:05:19 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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To: BenLurkin
Excuse me but put in 'christian boylover' into google and you will come up with the most 'eyeopening' and twisted things do with their christian faith (and justify their rank sin).



16 posted on 08/30/2003 6:06:30 PM PDT by cyborg (i'm half and half... me mum is a muggle and me dad is a witch)
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To: xzins
“Where in religion did we get the idea that some people are more worthy than others?” she wondered.

Maybe the whole Heaven/Hell thing is related in some small way to those concepts. Not that where your eternal soul is going to spend eternity is all that important to the Christian religion. I can see how these people could be confused.

17 posted on 08/30/2003 6:08:01 PM PDT by xm177e2 (Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
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To: xzins
It is worse than I had thought out there.
18 posted on 08/30/2003 6:08:24 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: xzins
Cervone, with her same-sex partner at her side, wondered how many “nameless men and women” must die before this country moves beyond tolerance to freedom for all people.

All of the people I have ever met had a name. I wonder where she finds these nameless people. It must be really hard to get a job, buy a car, or collect social security without a name. I guess being tolerant of namelessness just isn't good enough.

19 posted on 08/30/2003 6:10:41 PM PDT by stripes1776
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To: RochesterFan
There is no doubt that the free will argument can be misused, even abused.

Especially by sinful, unsaved humans.
20 posted on 08/30/2003 6:11:27 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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To: MarMema
Yep.

Pergamum & Thyatira
21 posted on 08/30/2003 6:13:29 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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To: xzins
The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) declined Swenson's offer...

Thank God for small favors.

Since we've allowed these malcontents to define the debate as gay marriage, everything less than that blasphemy is seen as acceptable.

I used to come to FR to relax, but articles like this raise my blood pressure to emergency-room levels.

"Serenity now. Serenity now."

22 posted on 08/30/2003 6:15:54 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Scenic Sounds
Well, just to take one issue:

She's doing a typical thing with twisting "free will" to mean whatever she wants it to. "Free will" means you have the free will to not choose to follow God's precepts - it does not mean you have the free will to decide which precepts are to be followed after you commit to following them.

23 posted on 08/30/2003 6:18:47 PM PDT by Cathryn Crawford (Wait, I just remembered something! You're boring and my legs work.)
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To: xzins
I often think that the most disgusting and vulgar thing about these people is not so much what they do, but that they seem to feel the incessant need to parade their actions and beliefs to the world.
I don't know what could be a better indicator of the evil one's presence than their incessant infatuation with themselves and media addiction. They seem to truly believe that what they do in their sexual relationships is of incredible interest to the rest of the world.
24 posted on 08/30/2003 6:19:03 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: xzins
There is no doubt that the free will argument can be misused, even abused.

Sure can, since it originated with the Greeks (Aristotle) and not the Word of God. As believers living in the US, we must understand and admit that not all of the vakues we were taught originate in the Word of God.

25 posted on 08/30/2003 6:20:54 PM PDT by RochesterFan
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To: xzins
How many people at these events have already been, or will be, convicted of sexual offences?
26 posted on 08/30/2003 6:21:11 PM PDT by Loyalist (Who gazed upon the world with lidless eyes....)
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To: Cathryn Crawford
She's doing a typical thing with twisting "free will" to mean whatever she wants it to. "Free will" means you have the free will to not choose to follow God's precepts - it does not mean you have the free will to decide which precepts are to be followed after you commit to following them.

EXACTLY, Cathryn. You have a way of cutting through all the complications and getting right to the meat of an issue. That's why you're heading for the big arena!!

27 posted on 08/30/2003 6:21:32 PM PDT by Scenic Sounds
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
This is indication of a uniquely evil direction in the history of western civilization, imo.

I read today also about the 10 commandments.

It said that the commandments and mention of God will be removed in Alabama, and then in Texas, and then in Ohio, and then.....until all 50 states have had any reference to God excised.

What we will have then is a culture with The State as the highest authority.
28 posted on 08/30/2003 6:25:48 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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To: thoughtomator
Santorum looks like a prophet now.

So perhaps we should have taken consenting adults who commit adultery or homosexuality in the privacy of their homes and thrown them all in jail, and we would have prevented this sort of sexual permissiveness?

Santorum looks like an idiot.

29 posted on 08/30/2003 6:26:18 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: Loyalist
I'm guessing a high percentage.
30 posted on 08/30/2003 6:28:29 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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To: xzins
She argued that having multiple sexual partners can be “holy.”

And monkeys can fly out of my butt.

31 posted on 08/30/2003 6:28:51 PM PDT by wimpycat (Down with Kooks and Kookery!)
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To: Dr Warmoose
"Arminian/Pelagian/Free Will soteriology."

Now that is quite a mouthful, but I'll have you know I looked up all the words, and all I can say is, I hear you!

This article had me literally holding my head in my hands while reading it, it was making my brain spin so fast. These folks are blasphemers at best. I have no idea what any of this means, I got no dictionary to look this stuff up in. I just know it can't be good.

Something very bad happened to the world in 1968, where it will lead to I have no idea, but it sure seems like Apocolypse soon is likely.

32 posted on 08/30/2003 6:29:05 PM PDT by jocon307
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To: RochesterFan; Dr. Eckleburg
I won't get into it with you, but this article certainly does not injure your argument.

It makes me breathe, "Come quickly Lord Jesus."
33 posted on 08/30/2003 6:29:57 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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To: xzins
“I know a lot of women who chose to become lesbian,” Kolodny said. “Love between two people is always beautiful,” she added, and should be regarded as part of free choice.

What an airhead.
I guess love between your husband and your daughter "is always beautiful"?

Between your best friend and your mother?
It's all "free choice", right?

Unreal. And these creeps want to make their values (or lack of them) religiously accepted by all.

34 posted on 08/30/2003 6:31:31 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: xzins
It makes me breathe, "Come quickly Lord Jesus."

Amen to that point. Maranatha!

35 posted on 08/30/2003 6:32:37 PM PDT by RochesterFan
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To: thoughtomator
Santorum looks like a prophet now.

Yes. And everyone who criticized him should be made to respond to this article.

36 posted on 08/30/2003 6:32:59 PM PDT by speekinout
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To: Scenic Sounds
The battle is in the spirit world. What is happening has been foretold for thousands of years. Satan always tries to pervert the word of God to his evil ends. Your mission, should you accept it, is to remain faithful to the teachings of Christ and spread the good news to the ends of the earth.

37 posted on 08/30/2003 6:34:08 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Yes, it's an individual struggle. Thanks for the encouraging words. ;-)
38 posted on 08/30/2003 6:35:53 PM PDT by Scenic Sounds
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To: MarMema; Dr. Eckleburg
Gay Day at amusement parks around America always draw high criticism. Every parent I've ever heard wants warnings about these events posted. (In our area it's Kings Island.)

Honestly, though, there is no reason in a mechanistic universe NOT to have sex in public. The only thing preventing it would be "morality," and the argument will come, "Why should I be bound by Your religious restrictions?"
39 posted on 08/30/2003 6:37:16 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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To: xzins
What we will have then is a culture with The State as the highest authority.

That worked out real well in the Soviet Union.

I will say this...if the post-mill's are correct, we've got a LOOOOOONNNNGGGGGG wait ahead of us :D

40 posted on 08/30/2003 6:37:18 PM PDT by Frumanchu (mene mene tekel upharsin)
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To: thoughtomator
Please explain the connection with Santorum... I missed it.
41 posted on 08/30/2003 6:37:20 PM PDT by RochesterFan
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To: MarMema
I think the worst thing about them is not so much what they do, but that they want everybody to think it's OK and not "disapprove". They want to make virtues out of vices, to call good "evil" and evil "good".

I know a lot of people (well, I used to know them) who drink excessively and fool around a lot, but they have the common decency to not flaunt it and parade it around as some virtue...They're what (comedian) Tim Wilson calls "Lynyrd Skynyrd Baptists".
42 posted on 08/30/2003 6:37:58 PM PDT by wimpycat (Down with Kooks and Kookery!)
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To: RochesterFan
Santorum spoke out in favor of sodomy laws and was lamblasted by the media. He said that if states cannot control that sexual behavior, then there's really NO case for them to control ANY sexual behavior.
43 posted on 08/30/2003 6:39:17 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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To: xzins
Kolodny, who is Jewish, explained that she could not conclude the session without discussing polyamory.

Az och und vay! (That's Yiddish for "in a pig's eye")

44 posted on 08/30/2003 6:40:44 PM PDT by Alouette (The bombing begins in five minutes.)
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To: Jorge
Spot on!

They will REFUSE to be bound by any morality.
45 posted on 08/30/2003 6:41:51 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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To: Alouette
LOL!
46 posted on 08/30/2003 6:42:53 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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To: Jorge
Help me with something Jorge. Given other comments, perhaps it'll help me understand your perspective better.

Are you libertarian? Or close to being so?
47 posted on 08/30/2003 6:44:53 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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To: xzins
“I am a strong ally of those in healthy, polyamorous relationships,” declared Debra Kolodny. She argued that having multiple sexual partners can be “holy.” Kolodyn was leading a workshop at the WOW (Witness Our Welcome) 2003 convention, an ecumenical gathering for “sexually and gender inclusive Christians.”

Gee, I guess she never read anything the Bible has to say about sexual relations apart from monogamous heterosexuality. Or maybe she has, finds it inconvenient, and has decided to define it away.

She argued that having multiple sexual partners can be “holy.”

Having multiple sexual partners can be "holey," but just because that sounds like "holy" doesn't make it so.
48 posted on 08/30/2003 6:45:32 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: xzins
This could be renamed, "Why I left the United Methodist Church and Became a Southern Baptist."

A word of Warning for any United Methodist sending their child to TCU… I grew up in a "conservative" United Methodist Church in Texas. So as a freshman at TCU I joined the Wesley Foundation on campus. WHAT A SURPRISE THAT WAS! The leadership brought gay and lesbian individuals in to "teach" us how our long held belief that homosexuality is sinful was not Biblical. I got out of that place fast! This was around the time the Southern Baptist were making waves at their conventions for taking stands on this very issue... I knew where I should transfer my membership! I've been very happy there ever since in the Southern Baptist Church.
49 posted on 08/30/2003 6:46:49 PM PDT by Oceanus
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To: Frumanchu
And if us premills are correct, the faithful could shortly be gone.

And if the amils are correct, the world as we know it could be gone in the not too distant future.
50 posted on 08/30/2003 6:46:51 PM PDT by xzins (In the Beginning was the Word)
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