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The Selfish Child
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 8/31/03 | Robert Shaw

Posted on 08/31/2003 9:20:30 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:43:30 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Child and family psychiatrist Robert Shaw says he wrote the latest book in the child-care advice genre because he had to. After the teen shootings at Columbine, he asked himself, "How would you have to raise your kids for them to do this?" His answer lay in the past three decades of books on child rearing. Although he admits there have been some stellar examples lately - Carol Eagle's "All That She Can Be: Helping Your Daughter Maintain her Self- Esteem," Michael Gurian's "The Good Son" and Audrey Ricker and Carolyn Crowder's "Backtalk: Four Steps To Ending Rude Behavior in Your Kids" - the majority have pushed a child-centric view that elevates the child to head of the household.


(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: California
KEYWORDS: bookreview; child; children; education; itsforthechildren; parenting; schools; selfesteem; selfishchildren
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1 posted on 08/31/2003 9:20:31 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: MeeknMing
general interest ping

long article but interesting
2 posted on 08/31/2003 9:26:18 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Very interesting, thanks for posting this. It's about time someone wrote this book.
3 posted on 08/31/2003 9:31:45 AM PDT by jocon307
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
bkmk
4 posted on 08/31/2003 9:32:18 AM PDT by riri
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Shaw admits to a nagging fear of being "lynched in his hometown": Berkeley

What's amazing is nowhere does he mention creating a new government program or raising taxes. He must live in Berkeley because as a psychiatrist that's where his customers are.

5 posted on 08/31/2003 9:33:39 AM PDT by Reeses
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To: netmilsmom
ping
6 posted on 08/31/2003 9:34:39 AM PDT by Fraulein (TCB)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Shaw's book, "The Epidemic: The Rot of American Culture, Absentee and Permissive Parenting, and the Resultant Plague of Joyless, Selfish Children,"

Wow. I may have to buy this book.

7 posted on 08/31/2003 9:38:17 AM PDT by independentmind
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Thanks !

8 posted on 08/31/2003 9:39:15 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Check out the Texas Chicken D 'RATS!: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/keyword/Redistricting)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Fascinating. Thanks for posting this.
9 posted on 08/31/2003 9:40:17 AM PDT by EggsAckley (......Thank you for not excerpting.......[unless it's required].......~</;o))
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To: I_Love_My_Husband; Alamo-Girl; onyx; SpookBrat; Republican Wildcat; Howlin; Fred Mertz; ...

Please let me know if you want ON or OFF my General Interest ping list!. . .don't be shy.

10 posted on 08/31/2003 9:41:02 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Check out the Texas Chicken D 'RATS!: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/keyword/Redistricting)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Bump for later.

Looks very interesting

11 posted on 08/31/2003 9:41:26 AM PDT by don-o
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Can you go to stores, restaurants or libraries without seeing these joyless children screaming, throwing food or pulling packages or books off shelves?

I see this almost everytime I go shopping or to certain restaurants; usually, the parents' solution is to buy the child something.

12 posted on 08/31/2003 9:43:14 AM PDT by independentmind
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
My son was in daycare and then private school all his life. He was well-behaved and a good student in prvate school. He now has a good job and a wife who he met in private school.

At this late date, though, he complains about not having spent enough time with me as a child. His private school did have a lot of hoemwork, so a lot of our time together was spent working on that rather than fun activities.

Although he didn't act out after the terrible twos, I wonder now if my own boredom with the public schools as a child caused me to want something for him that he didn't really want. He is very athletic, and maybe he would have been happier with more sports and a shallower education. His sporting events away from school created transportation problems, so that if I was tied up he had to take a cab. In public school, he could have just got on the after-school bus like the band members and athletes did when I was a kid. Also in retrospect, he might have preferred the larger crowds n public school. I just assumed that, like me, he would tire of waiting for the slower students to keep up.

I think is a strange outcome of wanting something for your child that you wanted for yourself. He definitely was a privileged child, bu still he wanted more.

13 posted on 08/31/2003 9:44:49 AM PDT by angry elephant
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
My son was in daycare and then private school all his life. He was well-behaved and a good student in prvate school. He now has a good job and a wife who he met in private school.

At this late date, though, he complains about not having spent enough time with me as a child. His private school did have a lot of hoemwork, so a lot of our time together was spent working on that rather than fun activities.

Although he didn't act out after the terrible twos, I wonder now if my own boredom with the public schools as a child caused me to want something for him that he didn't really want. He is very athletic, and maybe he would have been happier with more sports and a shallower education. His sporting events away from school created transportation problems, so that if I was tied up he had to take a cab. In public school, he could have just got on the after-school bus like the band members and athletes did when I was a kid. Also in retrospect, he might have preferred the larger crowds n public school. I just assumed that, like me, he would tire of waiting for the slower students to keep up.

I think is a strange outcome of wanting something for your child that you wanted for yourself. He definitely was a privileged child, bu still he wanted more.

14 posted on 08/31/2003 9:44:57 AM PDT by angry elephant
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
BUMP
15 posted on 08/31/2003 9:51:27 AM PDT by GrandMoM ("What is impossible with men is possible with GOD -Luke 18:27)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Great article - worth the long read. How many of us know children like he describes? Can think of 8-9 myself which is sad.
16 posted on 08/31/2003 9:56:08 AM PDT by Gerish
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To: All
btt
17 posted on 08/31/2003 10:00:58 AM PDT by Johnbalaya
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To: Fraulein
Thanks for the ping!
I got really beat up on the last thread (in fact they are still doing it!) so I won't comment on this one.

But you know how I feel!!!!
18 posted on 08/31/2003 10:03:21 AM PDT by netmilsmom (Hand me my smelling salts.)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: I_Love_My_Husband
"Palatable labels ranging from "high-energy" to "hyperactive" to "temperamental" to "oppositional" are bandied about like personality traits that must be tolerated."

Ummm..."personality traits" such as those mentioned were NOT tolerated when I grew up! After a nasty bout of 'oppositional' or 'temperamental', I found myself wanting to just stand up rather than sit...for about a week, usually. My mama's 'medicine' was stout stuff.
20 posted on 08/31/2003 10:20:52 AM PDT by Maria S ("..I think the Americans are serious. Bush is not like Clinton. I think this is the end" Uday H.)
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To: hemogoblin
ping to self
21 posted on 08/31/2003 10:23:55 AM PDT by hemogoblin (The few, the proud, the 537.)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband

BUMP!

22 posted on 08/31/2003 10:38:17 AM PDT by stands2reason
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To: netmilsmom
Ooooh, I just read that thread! Yikes!

Well there were some screeching feminists on there. You're right about daycare and this author (the thread) from BERKELEY agrees with you! (And me, I might add).

Though truthfully, in my own case, I did go to day care as a child, and it WAS better there than at home, my homelife was not that happy. So I liked daycare better. I was lucky to be in a great daycare. Blessed.

When mother got married again, she stayed home (she was divorced when I was young from my dad, hence me in preschool/daycare), and she did stay home after that.
23 posted on 08/31/2003 11:08:19 AM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Oooo, thank you.
The flames are still burning!
I have to laugh though, these are the same people that will tell a gay or a wiccan (not that I agree with either) that they are dead wrong. Oh well.
The point that I was making and still do is that INSTITUTIONALIZED daycare is not a sub for parenting. This article says it too.
But geez, I'm not saying anything!!!
As Yosemite Sam would say, "My biscuits are burnin'!"
24 posted on 08/31/2003 11:15:29 AM PDT by netmilsmom (Hand me my smelling salts.)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
This guy has alot of nerve!!
What gives him the right to dictate how parents should raise their kids?
He's just damn lucky I agree with him.
I often wonder about the root cause of all these teenagers being into pain (X-treme sports, jackass, etc.) I think it is a cry out to their parents who are too busy for them.
There are alot of things my kids want...but nothing that they need.
25 posted on 08/31/2003 11:22:39 AM PDT by baltodog (As for me, I gonna' be a pimp!)
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To: angry elephant
Stop punishing yourself. Our hindsight isn't always accurate. Your son did well in school and met his future wife there. He developed good work habits which were modeled by you as you helped him with his homework. Had he gone to public school, you might have emerged with a different son than you have now. The one you have sounds great. Perhaps you can plan some father-son events with him now, at this stage of life, if that's what he thinks he lacked in his childhood. He sounds like a son who is doing well. We all make the best decisions we can at the time. I think you did just fine.
26 posted on 08/31/2003 11:34:11 AM PDT by Faith
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To: angry elephant
I think is a strange outcome of wanting something for your child that you wanted for yourself. He definitely was a privileged child, bu still he wanted more.

He didn't want more, he wanted you

That is not strange at all. It is normal. Having your kids raised by strangers, now that's strange.

27 posted on 08/31/2003 11:37:21 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Peace through Strength)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
From that sleep-deprived decision in the wee hours that it's easier to let a toddler come into bed with you than not,

For an alternative (which we did) check out

Co-Sleeping Another Way to Promote Infant Health

28 posted on 08/31/2003 11:41:00 AM PDT by don-o
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Thanks for bringing this terrific book to my attention. I'm saving it for when my daughter decides to start a family of her own. I cannot go in public without witnessing these out-of-control kids and their complacent parents that he describes. I was traveling last week, for example, and as i was waiting in the airport gate area, a woman with 2 kids (about 6 and 8) was totally ignoring the fact that her kids were running all around, screaming, throwing things. When she finally looked up, it was only to pat them on the heads like they were terribly clever. I was seriously ready to go over to her and tell her that she was raising rude children who had no consideration for others. That's just one example of the stuff i see every day. Something's terribly wrong with many of today's parents.
29 posted on 08/31/2003 11:43:29 AM PDT by MightyMouseToSaveThe Day
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Teachers everywhere report that children are arriving ill-equipped to engage in school because they lack focus, purpose, connection, an ability to fit into a rules system and a desire to learn.

After a summer running a tutoring program for 25 kids I can definitely attest to this.

30 posted on 08/31/2003 11:48:01 AM PDT by mafree
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To: MeeknMing
Bump and thanx!
31 posted on 08/31/2003 12:25:00 PM PDT by JustPiper ( "Free Republic" - The Greatest Information Truth Highway on the Internet!)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
bump
32 posted on 08/31/2003 12:30:36 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: MeeknMing
Thanks for the heads up!
33 posted on 08/31/2003 1:08:03 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
keep
34 posted on 08/31/2003 1:52:04 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: MightyMouseToSaveThe Day
<<< I was seriously ready to go over to her and tell her that she was raising rude children who had no consideration for others. >>>

My grandmother had a habit of speaking up if she saw mothers abusing their children or if she saw children frazzling their mothers, so I have given myself permission (in her memory) of doing the same thing.

One of the sad evolutions of our society is the lack of respect for others that parents convey to their children when such anti-social behavior is tolerated, and when children feel no restraint to wild behavior in the presence of adults.
35 posted on 08/31/2003 2:02:08 PM PDT by maica (Land of the Free, because of the Brave.)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
"-- Yelling at and threatening your children. You can be firm and reliable in reinforcing rules without resorting to these tactics. When you lose your temper, it says that you have delayed handling an issue until your frustration and impotence have become overwhelming. You can act firmly right away; you don't have to wait until you get angry"

Right, my just turned 5 year old ran out in to the road yesterday without looking and I snapped and wacked his butt with his plastic bat! I would have beat his ass more but he ran too fast into the house.

Sitting down and talking about it could kill him !

36 posted on 08/31/2003 2:03:00 PM PDT by america-rules (I'm one proud American right now !)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
this is one to read andd re-read a few tiimes
37 posted on 08/31/2003 3:57:45 PM PDT by geologist
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To: america-rules
God bless you for beating(wiffle ball bats are the best)!

Me & all the best & well behaved grownups have all been beaten thusly when we were stupid brats who got out of line.

38 posted on 08/31/2003 4:01:30 PM PDT by norraad
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To: I_Love_My_Husband; Akira
Excellent, thank you for posting.
39 posted on 08/31/2003 4:19:11 PM PDT by LibertyThug (I'm going to fight like a Bengal tiger.)
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To: Kira-USA
Bump
40 posted on 09/01/2003 1:05:57 PM PDT by LibertyThug (I'm going to fight like a Bengal tiger.)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
bump for later reading. After my young'uns are abed.
41 posted on 09/01/2003 1:24:25 PM PDT by irgbar-man (It's Really Gonna Be AllRight.)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Gee, how about using religious principles as a blueprint for bringing up your kids - THERE's an idea.

Did I miss it, or where was God in the above mess of common sense?
42 posted on 09/01/2003 3:06:41 PM PDT by txzman (Jer 23:29)
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To: scab4faa
bump
43 posted on 09/05/2003 3:15:27 PM PDT by wheeezer
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Bought the book - Amazon for $18.00. Worth every penny. Every parent needs to read this book.
44 posted on 12/16/2003 10:30:46 AM PST by diamond6
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
bump to read later
45 posted on 12/16/2003 10:32:52 AM PST by Alissa
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To: diamond6
And to add.... we should give this book as a Christmas present to our friends with kids.
46 posted on 12/16/2003 10:39:17 AM PST by diamond6
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To: Maria S
Ummm..."personality traits" such as those mentioned were NOT tolerated when I grew up!

When I was a teenager, I used to complain to my friends that I lived in a totalitarian government, where my dad was the dictator. (as a teenager, one overreacts to everything). My parents were strict, there were rules and expectations, but there was always a tremendous amount of love and support. I was lucky, more of this type of parenting is needed today

47 posted on 12/16/2003 11:43:07 AM PST by nicksaunt
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To: diamond6
ping
48 posted on 12/16/2003 12:25:07 PM PST by diamond6
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To: Maria S
Ummm..."personality traits" such as those mentioned were NOT tolerated when I grew up! After a nasty bout of 'oppositional' or 'temperamental', I found myself wanting to just stand up rather than sit...for about a week, usually. My mama's 'medicine' was stout stuff.

Your mama sounds a lot like my mama :o) My mom always said there was a reason God put extra padding on a kid's bottom. She had the fastest backhand in the south lol. She did not tolerate a smart mouth at all hehehe.

49 posted on 12/16/2003 12:45:18 PM PST by CajunConservative
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To: angry elephant
He definitely was a privileged child, bu still he wanted more.

Have to disagree with you here. That he was raised by hired help who regarded him as nothing more than a paycheck rather than his own mother means he was underprivileged, in my eyes. Your emphasis on 'private school' is interesting...as if that compensates or makes anything better. You seem to be falling into the trap of thinking that the expensive alternative - private school - somehow negated the daycare years.

50 posted on 12/16/2003 12:55:40 PM PST by Lizavetta (Savage is right. Extreme liberalness is a mental disorder.)
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