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TEXAS BEACHES BELONG TO ALL TEXANS
www.e-thepeople.org ^ | 9/04/03 | John Beatty

Posted on 09/04/2003 12:09:01 PM PDT by tx4guns

Do you enjoy fishing, surfing, beachcombing, sunbathing, or just long walks on the beach at sunrise or sunset? Are you aware that the beaches of Texas belong to the citizens of Texas? Did you know that there is an ongoing battle, to take away YOUR right to access YOUR property? The "Texas Open Beaches Act" guarantees, the citizens of our great state, open and unrestricted access to all Texas beaches,from "mean low tide" to the "vegetation line." The current fight is over the last 3.2 miles of open beach, at San Luis Pass. By the way, that is the only, truly, open beach left on Galveston Island. I have recently joined a group of people, who are fighting to preserve our right to access this beach, as it is being planned for developement. If you are passionate about your rights, as a citizen; or if you just want to know more about this struggle; please go to www.texasopenbeaches.org. This is the website for the T.O.B.A.(Texas Open Beach Advocates). Or if you are just mildly interested, and would like to learn more about this, before considering involvement; try going to www.guidrynews.com and click on Forum. You wil get both sides of the argument there. We need your support! Thanks to The Chronicle, for this forum. Get involved, get educated, knowledge is power! Thanks


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: beach; beaches; texans; texas; toba
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This battle is a heated one in which I've become quite involved. Spread the word and check out the TOBA website to become educated on the issues. It affects all citizens of Texas that use the beaches. Your public beach could be next in the fight.
1 posted on 09/04/2003 12:09:05 PM PDT by tx4guns
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To: tx4guns
Turn it into a park, then they can keep everybody out.
2 posted on 09/04/2003 12:13:39 PM PDT by Old Professer
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To: tx4guns
Thanks for the heads up. I will certainly look into this. I grew up on the Texas Gulf Coast and have been enjoying the beaches for more than 60 years. Though I no longer live very close to the coast, I still find time to enjoy going there once in a while.
3 posted on 09/04/2003 12:16:06 PM PDT by basil
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To: Old Professer
A park would be nice, but that's not the plan. The plan is to build a golf course, marina and tons of more houses on the West end of Galatraz Island. Beaches will be close to vehicles as development propogates down the island. They will be private beaches for the beachfront land owners, and the public will be SOL in that area.
4 posted on 09/04/2003 12:19:21 PM PDT by tx4guns
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To: msdrby
beach ping
5 posted on 09/04/2003 12:19:26 PM PDT by Prof Engineer (HHD - Blast it Jim. I'm an Engineer, not a walking dictionary.)
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To: tx4guns
I live in Florida and the Hotels have bought up the access to the beaches and fenced them off to prevent "non guests" from getting to them. After the last hurricane the hotels expected the taxpayers to clean up and rebuild the beaches.
6 posted on 09/04/2003 12:21:03 PM PDT by mbynack
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To: tx4guns
the public will be SOL in that area

The public is the State. Is the public selling the land to private individuals or corporations?

7 posted on 09/04/2003 12:23:01 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: mbynack
After the last hurricane the hotels expected the taxpayers to clean up and rebuild the beaches.

That would be outrageous. However, sea level is now dropping, slowly. In the course of time, beachfront will be many miles out to what is now sea.

8 posted on 09/04/2003 12:27:18 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: RightWhale
There is private land next to the beach. The beach (i.e. public land) is from the low tide line to the vegitation line at the dunes. The private land is right behind the dunes. That's where the houses are being built, and as the development occurs, the City/County of Galveston is putting up bollards and blocking vehicular access to the public beach. State law requires equal or better access for every 1/4 mile of beach, and Galveston is currently not compliant with those laws. The state (General Land Office) turns an eye to it and has not enforced the law. It's time they do. Storms have washed beach away and left houses in the water. State law requires the removal of these structures, but they are still there. Like I said, this is a complicated and heated battle. The more people that get educated on it, the better. We need the public to speak!

As for the marina, golf course, etc... there is a land owner that owns 1200 acres from beach to bay to San Luis Pass that is trying to sell the land to a major developer. Bayside is private land, and is not under the Open Beaches Act. It's the beach side that we're concerned about, but development is not the answer down there.
9 posted on 09/04/2003 12:31:07 PM PDT by tx4guns
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To: RightWhale
It happens in Texas, too. Beachfront houses are blown/washed away, and YOUR insurance premiums and property taxes (for Texans) help pay for these people to rebuild their homes and the beach. FEMA helps, too in a bad storm. In other words, they buy a house from $250k - multi million $$$, a hurricane washes it away, and we pay to rebuild it. Some areas are not insurable, and I believe the whole beachfront should be that way. It's not a matter of IF, but WHEN the big one comes!
10 posted on 09/04/2003 12:34:29 PM PDT by tx4guns
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To: tx4guns
The public access would be public property, that is State property whether it's an easement or an entire parcel. If it's an easement, then the State screwed up when it disposed of the land in the first place--long time ago, no doubt, but the State still has right-of-way anyway. The accesses, being State land, may be cleared by the State at any time. Bulldozers are appropriate.
11 posted on 09/04/2003 12:35:47 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: tx4guns
Its a losing proposition in this state.

All waterways in Texas are theoretically open access, yet most are closed. That does not matter to those in power.

I wish you luck.

12 posted on 09/04/2003 12:57:57 PM PDT by Cobra Scott
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To: Prof Engineer
All your beach are belong to us.
13 posted on 09/04/2003 12:59:53 PM PDT by ActionNewsBill
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Crystal Beach, baby! I've done many a stupid thing down there back in the day.
14 posted on 09/04/2003 1:02:16 PM PDT by GOPyouth (De Oppresso Liber! Heather Nauert is all that is woman!)
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To: GOPyouth
There is already a buzz about closures at Crystal Beach. Once the Toll Bridge is built from Texas City to Boliver, the property value is going to skyrocket, and the "priviledged" beachfront homeowners will want their private beach down there, too. Get involved before it's too late.
15 posted on 09/04/2003 1:06:00 PM PDT by tx4guns
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To: Cobra Scott
It's only a loss if the politicians are not confronted with public interest. That goes for anything politicians do. If the word gets out and people are educated, the public's wishes will prevail. Spread the word.
16 posted on 09/04/2003 1:08:42 PM PDT by tx4guns
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To: tx4guns
It happens in Texas, too. Beachfront houses are blown/washed away, and YOUR insurance premiums and property taxes (for Texans) help pay for these people to rebuild their homes and the beach. FEMA helps, too in a bad storm. In other words, they buy a house from $250k - multi million $$$, a hurricane washes it away, and we pay to rebuild it.

Sounds like a certain river in the middle of the continent that people keep rebuilding on over and over, no matter the fact that they are living in flood plains.

I believe Texas waterways belong to Texans, but I do see more and more entities, both city/county, and private, trying to restrict access.

17 posted on 09/04/2003 2:11:15 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: tx4guns
You want to go to beach ? BUY the land with YOUR money, or pay the property owners' their access fee.

pRIVATE PROPERTY IS THE BASIS FOR SUCCESS and freeper ought not push socialism.

18 posted on 09/04/2003 2:14:06 PM PDT by hoosierham
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To: hoosierham
Read up on Texas law before you spout off. It's about freedom, not private property rights. Texas beaches are owned by the people for the people, and that includes non-Texan visitors too. To restrict access is to restrict freedom. That is not "their" private beach, and it never has been, and never will be.
19 posted on 09/04/2003 2:18:39 PM PDT by tx4guns
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: webwizard
The source is the highly reputable Art Bell Show. You learn all kinds of stuff there that nobody else knows about. Tuvalu [South Pacific] is not sinking after all. Sea level is down 2" in the past 4 years.
21 posted on 09/04/2003 2:42:32 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: hoosierham
You want to go to beach ? BUY the land with YOUR money, or pay the property owners' their access fee.

I guess that if all beaches get "privatized" one can always fly over for free? If you respect the property rights so much you should demand the land (and the beaches) to be returned to the Indians.

22 posted on 09/04/2003 2:47:35 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: A. Pole
Well,the natives of North America could certainly tell you about broken teaties and gov't ignoring law !!

But since Indians were mostly nomadic and communal, perhaps discussion of private land rights would be inappropiate.

And since the imposition of property taxes and zoning laws in America has turned ALL non-State entities into landholders rather than landowners you ought to be happy. Just as the "rails to trails", "wetlands",etc. the "right to beach access" is a socialist concept.

Perhaps everyone should demand the right to access your home to view the spectacular wallpaper or sample the cooking ? Communal ownership tends to result in high maintenance costs, poor maintenance and no sense of responsibility. A sense of ownership is at the core of people's drive to acquire and improve property.

23 posted on 09/04/2003 2:58:05 PM PDT by hoosierham
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To: hoosierham
broken TREATIES

darn speling

24 posted on 09/04/2003 2:59:28 PM PDT by hoosierham
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To: hoosierham
Well,the natives of North America could certainly tell you about broken teaties and gov't ignoring law !! But since Indians were mostly nomadic and communal, perhaps discussion of private land rights would be inappropiate.

Communal property is still a property and being on the move ("nomadic") on your property does not invalidate anything. You do not give up your house by moving from one room to anothers and even by going out.

If you respect the property rights so much, you should start with the ORIGINAL owners.

25 posted on 09/04/2003 3:05:49 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: A. Pole
start with the ORIGINAL owners

Who would that be?

26 posted on 09/04/2003 3:07:07 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: RightWhale
Who would that be?

Indians of course.

27 posted on 09/04/2003 3:09:13 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: RightWhale
The source is the highly reputable Art Bell Show. You learn all kinds of stuff there that nobody else knows about.

You can say that again. The Journal of Irreproducable Results would do well to pay close attention to all the discoveries that are first announced on the Art Bell Show.

28 posted on 09/04/2003 3:09:25 PM PDT by clamboat
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To: A. Pole
Indians of course.

Is there any evidence the Indians were the original owners?

29 posted on 09/04/2003 3:11:34 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: clamboat
You can say that again.

Once is probably enough. But our BS filters have certainly grown ever more powerful thanks to that show.

30 posted on 09/04/2003 3:16:36 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: RightWhale
Is there any evidence the Indians were the original owners?

There is plenty of evidence that Indians lived in North America for thousands of years and that white settlers came in the last few centuries.

Of cource the REAL and ORIGINAL Owner of everything is God Himself. This what we call "our" private property is a privilege for temporary usage to be given and taken away at His leasure. As it is written:

"And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?(Lk:12:15-20)

31 posted on 09/04/2003 3:22:40 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: A. Pole
Apparently the oldest human remains found in America are not Indian. Look European, some of them. The rest Japanese, Australian, African. It's hard to know who to give the land back to.
32 posted on 09/04/2003 3:31:30 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: hoosierham
D00d, I'm one of the biggest property rights advocates on this board. Public access to the sea shore IS A PROPERTY RIGHT.

It's inherent in real estate law that if you buy property on the seashore that the public has access rights. Access rights are not to be given away by politicians trying to appease their developer buddies.

33 posted on 09/04/2003 3:37:21 PM PDT by AAABEST
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To: A. Pole
Since when is communal and private the same ?

The Mediterranean region's rocky hills and deserts show how well communal grazing worked. If something belongs to one then no one will take care of it.

You apparently are neither willing or able, alone or with like-minded friends , to purchase the beaches you wish to enjoy. You prefer that everyone be forced to pay for the upkeep of something which only a few will find time to enjoy.

ANd I do agree that FEMA or any other gov't has no business paying for the rebuilding of private property not damaged by gov't. Locally, some people made out like bandits when they were able to sell 100 year old houses that stood on flood plains to the gov't, AND get more assistance to build new homes. They should have simply had to deal with consequences of owning flood-prone homes.

The biggest problem with the U.S. of A. is too many people with their hand out begging ! And they drag down too many of those still working by imposing stupid and capricous regulatory agencies.

34 posted on 09/04/2003 3:44:17 PM PDT by hoosierham
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To: hoosierham
Since when is communal and private the same ?

Communal property is like private individual property. You can buy something together with your friends and own it communally. The town, associacion or religious body can buy, own and sell the same way. Corporations have property rights as well.

35 posted on 09/04/2003 3:48:17 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: tx4guns
Can you say Malibu?

By NORMA MEYER
Copley News Service

August 12, 2002

MALIBU – On a mansion-lined beach sits the Cape Cod-style estate of DreamWorks studio co-chief David Geffen, whose oceanfront estate includes a slate-trimmed swimming pool, a tree-dotted lawn and a flagpole on which Old Glory was raised whenever President Clinton was a guest. 

Geffen's home is on a public beach. But good luck getting there. The closest footpath to the area, called Carbon Beach, is more than a mile down the road, and on a recent day, the trek involved scrambling over slippery rocks at high tide and getting soaked by pounding waves. 

When it comes to public access, the 27-mile Malibu shoreline – stretches of which are walled off by side-by-side villas – is perhaps the most contentious strip of California coast. A recent lawsuit filed by Geffen just ratcheted up the battle between the haves and have-nots. 

At star-studded Broad Beach, where Dustin Hoffman, Goldie Hawn and Robert De Niro have retreats, private police patrols on three-wheelers herd visiting sunbathers into a 20-foot-wide roped-off sandy patch that the state mandated as a public access way. Elsewhere, the beach is marked with intimidating, arrest-threatening and deceiving "Private Property" signs. 

At the famed Malibu Colony, where celebrity residents include Tom Hanks, Linda Ronstadt and Bruce Dern, a chain-link fence with a sign that warns "Private Beach – No Trespassing" extends into the water at high tide, cutting off outsiders. 

http://www.calcoast.org/news/coast081202b.html

As a lifelong surfer, this "owning" of the beach thing makes me sick.
36 posted on 09/04/2003 4:38:34 PM PDT by Weimdog
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To: tx4guns
If you cant sell it, you dont own it!!

Can you sell 'your' beach if you wanted to? If you cant, then you are not the owner. The government is not the people. If may be of the people, but it is never the people, and many times the government is its own special interest.

37 posted on 09/04/2003 4:41:20 PM PDT by keithtoo (Tax Cuts - A robber who doesn't steal from you isn't GIVING you a VCR!!)
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To: RightWhale
I thought the sea level was rising due to all the global warming.
38 posted on 09/04/2003 4:58:43 PM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis)
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To: A. Pole
"There is plenty of evidence that Indians lived in North America for thousands of years and that white settlers came in the last few centuries. "

Not True.

European DNA Found In 7-8,000 Year Old Skeleton In Florida

There has never been any 'Indian' skeletons (as we know them today) over 6,000 years old ever found in the Americas.

39 posted on 09/04/2003 5:01:11 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Not True. European DNA Found In 7-8,000 Year Old Skeleton In Florida

I see. Does it mean that we have right to walk on the beach?

BTW, the DNA could have belonged to some castaway trespasser :)

40 posted on 09/04/2003 5:04:07 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: A. Pole
"BTW, the DNA could have belonged to some castaway trespasser :)"

Nah. 169 skeletons, 90 with their brains intact and buried over a 1300 year period. Read the original article below.

Bye, Bye Beringia (8,000 Year Old Site Found In Florida)

41 posted on 09/04/2003 5:12:12 PM PDT by blam
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To: hoosierham
You want to go to beach ? BUY the land with YOUR money, or pay the property owners' their access fee.

pRIVATE PROPERTY IS THE BASIS FOR SUCCESS and freeper ought not push socialism.

Agreed, but the beach is already public land. State of Texas owned. Maintained by the taxes paid by Texans.

The problem in Galveston is steps have been taken by the private land owners of the "beach front property" (its not on the beach, just near it) to make it difficult to access the beaches. That is the problem here.

The County and State are failing to comply with the law that requires them to maintain access to the beach. Many access ways are disappearring or the beaches are altered so traversing them in a car or on foot is difficult. The parks in the area are not being maintained very well either. I have suspected for a while this has been intentional.

This is not a case of 'have nots' whining about the 'haves'. It is a case of people wanting to control the access to more than they should be allowed to, more than they rightfully own, and they are using their influence (ie cash) to do it.

42 posted on 09/04/2003 5:18:02 PM PDT by Jalapeno
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To: A. Pole
"I see. Does it mean that we have right to walk on the beach?"

Read this story here that happened just down the way from my house.

43 posted on 09/04/2003 5:20:04 PM PDT by blam
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To: RightWhale
sea level is now dropping, slowly.

But don't forget there are places, I think Maryland is one, where the land is sinking faster. I remember reading a global warming debunking about rising sea levels in the Northeast where they showed it was sinking land that only made it appear like the sea was rising.

44 posted on 09/04/2003 5:32:13 PM PDT by StriperSniper (The Federal Register is printed on pulp from The Tree Of Liberty)
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To: RightWhale
Huh? Sea level is now dropping? Splain that, Lucy. Erosion is a major issue, meaning "sea level" is rising, in effect.
45 posted on 09/04/2003 5:32:37 PM PDT by Endeavor
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To: A. Pole
Does it mean that we have right to walk on the beach?

In New Jersey(imagine that!) all beaches are public land up to the high tide line, all streams also are public. You can't cross private land to access either, but once in the public zone, you can continue on/in it.

46 posted on 09/04/2003 5:39:41 PM PDT by StriperSniper (The Federal Register is printed on pulp from The Tree Of Liberty)
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To: tx4guns
I can only imagine the traffic nightmare when the toll bridge is built. From Spring Break through Labor Day the beaches look like a garbage dump on any given day.
47 posted on 09/04/2003 6:08:51 PM PDT by zoobeach
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To: tx4guns
http://www.texasopenbeaches.org/

We have the some of the same problems here in NJ. First we have to travel through mounds of traffic paying tolls on the Garden State Parkway. When we get to the beach there is usually nowhere to park and usually have to pay to park blocks away lugging all of our stuff. Then, it costs about $6.00 per person per day for a "beach badge" which we pay when entering and have to wear on our bathing suits.

Most of the coast was ruined by beach replenishment so there isn't too much beach area to ride good waves since the natural contour of the ocean floor has been rearranged.

This beach replenishment is paid for using "federal" dollars which means any American should be able to use the beaches in NJ, well in some cities that's not the case.

If one needs to go through private property to get to the beach he can not so those towns with houses along the beech can bar people from entering. That means no open beaches for the public in those towns even though yours and mine federal dollars paid for their beach restoration.

There is also a disdain for those of us who live up north where they invented a moniker for us called BENNY. Those who live down the shore hate to have the Benny's come down there to vacation and swim, they love our money but hate us.

http://www.gohomebennies.com/
http://www.bennysgohome.com/
48 posted on 09/04/2003 6:20:58 PM PDT by Coleus (God is Pro Life and Straight & gave us an innate predisposition for self-preservation and protection)
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To: Endeavor
Splain that

The guest said that we are entering an Ice Age. Not will enter, are entering.

49 posted on 09/04/2003 6:40:38 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: Coleus
I have experienced the beach badge racket in NJ. what a mess.
50 posted on 09/04/2003 7:03:13 PM PDT by Jalapeno
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