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Islamic World Renaissance(again a mighty intellectual, scientific,inevitably, military force)
LA Times ^ | 8/30/2003 | Unknown

Posted on 09/05/2003 6:31:41 AM PDT by Helms

Edited on 09/05/2003 3:50:16 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

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1 posted on 09/05/2003 6:31:44 AM PDT by Helms
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To: Timesink; kattracks; Sabertooth; Behind Liberal Lines; .cnI redruM; SJackson; FormerLib
Ping
2 posted on 09/05/2003 6:35:12 AM PDT by Helms ("I Want My MTV" (More Televised Vulgarity))
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To: Helms
...written by Baghdad Bob.
3 posted on 09/05/2003 6:35:45 AM PDT by LurkedLongEnough (Think, Post, Repeat.)
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To: Helms
Again the leftist con game of the backwardness of "Europe."
by focusing on northern Europe they totaly disregard Byzantium - the seat of European knowledge of the day. The Hellenic input into the middle ages was a direct result of greek scholars being force out of the east by the rising Turks - not some sort of "transfer" from the Arab but rather a migration from the old eastern empire. It was Greek and Latin that they were translating, not Arabian.

Also, the apogee of "intellectual culture" in the Isalmic world came during the Ottoman period. Many of the the key groups in the Sultans' governments were eastern Europeans taken in childhood from Eastern Europe. Also, the few innovations from islam come mostly from the Farsi world with its rich mixture of pre-islamic cultures.

This myth of parity in intellectual and cultural contributions bewteen the West and Isalm is a myth of liberal elites in both worlds.

I cannot understand why no oone ever publically debunks this outright lie.
4 posted on 09/05/2003 6:50:51 AM PDT by CasearianDaoist
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To: Helms
"it was important to find points of contact between Christanity and Islamic convergence"

Islam found an important point of convergence when it attacked the Twin Towers.

quran(9:11) For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughtout the lands of allah and for a while some of the people trembled in despair, still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of allah and there was peace.(notice the verse)
5 posted on 09/05/2003 6:51:29 AM PDT by freeangel (freeangel)
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To: Helms
Muslims can be charming, affable, intelligent, and your best friend
in the end if you are a Jew or Christian

(& if you are stupid enough to allow it or
put yourself in the position for them to easily do it....)

It is their sacred duty ....to convert or kill you

-Hey nothin' personal..it's just business
6 posted on 09/05/2003 7:00:08 AM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: Helms
What a load of crap.
7 posted on 09/05/2003 7:02:33 AM PDT by rintense (I've had it with illegals and liberals. Get the hell out of my country.)
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To: Helms
Helms,

The original rise of Islam proved anomolous and was enabled, in part, by miscalculations on the part of Eastern Roman Emporer Justinian.

1) Justinian deployed Belisarius on a lost cause campaign that expended the vast majority of Constantinople's deployable resources. This grinding conflict on The Italian Peninsula that made The Vietnam War look well-managed.

2) Justinian made peace with Persia and pulled forces away from it's Eastern frontier and made almost no effort to protect it's trade outposts in North Africa.

3) The Mediterranian cultures of the 7th century were totally unprepared for the fanatical nature of the original Muselman movement after the Hygira.

So, in a nutshell, Justinian squandered an excellent military machine and failed to adequately defend his Eastern border and the nature of the opponent faced was unknown.

Also, while a lot of intelligent people did originally come from Muselman cultural backgrounds, a lot of the enlightenment that modern Islamic Cultures claim as their own contribution was taken from the Mediterranian Basin as a spoil of war in much the same way that The Roman Republic appropriated and then assimilated Greek art, literature and philosophy.

Henri Pirenne's historical masterpiece "Muhammad and Charlemagne" basically debunks the idea that Justinian was a great Byzantine Emporer and explains how The Muselman religious movement was able to get control of the wealthiest parts ot The Mediterranian Basin in about a century and a half.
8 posted on 09/05/2003 7:17:18 AM PDT by .cnI redruM (More Americans 18-49 Watch The Cartoon Network than CNN!!!)
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To: Helms; LurkedLongEnough; JohnHuang2; CasearianDaoist; SJackson; freeangel; dennisw; joesnuffy
Is the author's view of "Islamic World Renaissance" reality?

Islam can only rise and expand through military conquest. This is historical fact.

True, the philosophical and cultural differences between Islamic nations (The East) and Christian nations (The West) can be viewed as two separate civilizations in competition with each other.

Both profess a divine appointment, calling, mission, and spiritual reference points. Muslims point to the Koran while Christians point to the Bible. Both the Koran and the Bible point to God as the Author of their faith and the source of their strength, but that is where the similarities end.

Islam's code requires Jihad to perpetuate itself in "unbelieving" nations resistent to the teachings of Muhammed.

Christianity's code requires mercy, forgiveness, and a turning away from violence and hatred even towards those resistent to the teachings of Christ.

The act of proselyting a Muslim by a Christian in an Islamic nation is punishable by death. In fact, Christianity itself is outlawed in most Islamic nations (and ultimately punishable by death).

The act of proselyting a Christian by a Muslim in a Christian nation has no legal or physically harmful ramifications to the Muslim.

The Muslim in a Christian nation is free to proselyte whereas a Christian in a Muslim nation does so at the risk of death.

This struggle will continue until Islamic nations cease to expand Jihad into Western Christian nations. Or until their desire to do so is broken by military brute force.

Of course, this reality may not be universally accepted in either Islamic or Christian cultures.

For that matter, what is reality?

9 posted on 09/05/2003 7:19:10 AM PDT by Happy2BMe (LIBERTY has arrived in Iraq - Now we can concentrate on HOLLYWEED!)
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To: Helms
the likelihood of the Islamic world regaining its foothold in history and becoming again a mighty intellectual, scientific and, inevitably, military force.

Hopefully, if that happens, Charlton Heston’s spaceship from the past will crash-land there and he’ll straighten things out.

10 posted on 09/05/2003 7:21:28 AM PDT by dead (Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead!)
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To: Happy2BMe
It's funny when the Islamic empty heads rattle on about the glories of Islam. It's bizarro world.
11 posted on 09/05/2003 7:30:45 AM PDT by dennisw (G_d is at war with Amalek for all generations)
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To: Helms
INTREP
12 posted on 09/05/2003 7:39:25 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: Helms
Islamic World Renaissance/Becoming again a mighty intellectual, scientific,inevitably, military force

Again?
Again?

One out of three ain't bad. For the ignorant and the propagandists.

Islam is efficient only as a military force, if allowed to do so.
Everywhere it has spread its cultural filth it always appropriates, gathers and uses the local existing knowledge, uses it, keeps it secret and immediately arrests all intellectual inquiry.

It doesn't take a mental giant to see why they are all still stuck in the 8th century (except in weapons research).

Continue treating them as normal homo sapiens at our peril.

13 posted on 09/05/2003 7:42:07 AM PDT by Publius6961 (californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: Happy2BMe
"What is reality?"

Excellent question-and Postmodernists (hey France and Germany as well as Media elites) have their own answer as follows:

"Postmodernists often express a profound skepticism regarding the Enlightenment quest to uncover the nature of truth and reality. Perhaps the most striking examples of this skepticism are to be found in the works of French cultural theorist, Jean Baudrillard. In his book Simulations, he contends that social 'reality' no longer exists in the conventional sense, but has been supplanted by an endless procession of simulacra.

The mass media, and other forms of mass cultural production, generate constant re-appropriation and re-contextualisation of familiar cultural symbols and images, fundamentally shifting our experience away from 'reality', to 'hyper-reality'."

I suggest that such a “hyper-reality” is Palestine and the so-called faux cycle of violence.

14 posted on 09/05/2003 7:43:31 AM PDT by Helms ("I Want My MTV" (More Televised Vulgarity))
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To: Happy2BMe
The EAST is only slam???? NO WAY! You forget that Eastern Orthodox Christianity flourished and still survives in places like Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Syria. You also forget the three other civilisations that aren't either slamic or Western Christian, viz. the Chinese, Japanese and Indian civilisations.
15 posted on 09/05/2003 7:49:40 AM PDT by Cronos ('slam and sanity don't mix, ask your Imam.....)
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To: freeangel
quran(9:11) For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughtout the lands of allah and for a while some of the people trembled in despair, still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of allah and there was peace.(notice the verse)


This gave me goosebumps when reading it. Can it be substantiated?????

16 posted on 09/05/2003 7:57:23 AM PDT by undergroundwarrior
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To: Cronos

This Imam’s for you@…………..http://www.salaam.co.uk/index.php

17 posted on 09/05/2003 7:58:05 AM PDT by Helms ("I Want My MTV" (More Televised Vulgarity))
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To: freeangel; All
Freeangel, I need some help on this... I don't know the quran, so I did a few searches on the internet, and this is what I came up with:

"9.11": But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.

can you show me where your above regarding the wrath of the Eagle can be found? Thanks.

CGVet58

18 posted on 09/05/2003 8:04:34 AM PDT by CGVet58 (Por mis compatriotas, mi vida... para nuestros enemigos, La Espada!!!)
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To: freeangel
re: quran 9:11: this is a hoax. I have a copy of the Qu'ran and that's not what verse 9:11 says, nor is there any verse in the Qu'ran that refers to eagles (a bird not native to Arabia)
19 posted on 09/05/2003 8:09:42 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Java/C++/Unix/Web Developer === needs a job at the moment)
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To: CasearianDaoist
Again the leftist con game of the backwardness of "Europe." by focusing on northern Europe they totaly disregard Byzantium - the seat of European knowledge of the day.

The Muslims prefer to ignore Byzantium. They also make grand claims to "Arabic numbers" and Algebra -- when those are INDIAN developments that the Muslims absorbed when they conquered India. The Muslims were pretty good about writing down the discoveries of others and preserving that knowledge, but not so good at actually originating anything

The Muslim civilization went downhill when they stopped expanding -- and thus halted the influx of loot and slaves experienced in running civilizations that propped them up

20 posted on 09/05/2003 8:13:57 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Java/C++/Unix/Web Developer === needs a job at the moment)
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