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Firms still slashing jobs
MSNBC.com ^ | 9/5/03 | ASSOCIATED PRESS

Posted on 09/05/2003 11:15:13 AM PDT by Afronaut

 

Firms still slashing jobs

WASHINGTON, Sept. 5 — Despite the civilian unemployment rate sliding down to 6.1 percent in August, the government reported Friday that companies slashed payrolls by 93,000, raising new concerns that the fragile economic recovery could falter.

AUGUST WAS THE seventh consecutive month of cuts in payrolls, a survey released by the Labor Department showed, indicating continuing weakness in the job market. Analysts had expected companies to add 12,000 new jobs.

At the same time, the overall seasonally adjusted unemployment rate fell from 6.2 percent to 6.1 percent of the labor force, as reflected by a survey of U.S. households. Stock prices fell in early trading Friday on news of the job losses.

The survey of businesses showed that job cuts were heavy again in manufacturing, a sector that has suffered the brunt of the economic downturn that began in March 2001. President Bush on Monday announced that a Commerce Department assistant secretary post was being changed to focus on revitalizing that part of the economy.
Friday’s reports no longer reflected a cyclical economy trying to add jobs after a recession — “which is depressing,” said Sung Won Sohn, chief economist at Wells Fargo. Analysts had expected companies to add some jobs last month.

Deeper concerns now are focused on long-term structural problems in the economy, such as a flood of U.S. jobs going overseas. “We have simply seen the tip of the iceberg,” Sohn said. “I think it will get worse, not better.”

At the White House, spokesman Scott McClellan said, “The economy is growing but we want to see it grow even faster.” He said jobs are one of the last things to grow as the economy improves.

Some reports estimate 5 million jobs — many high-paying — will be lost to other countries by 2015. As the economy grows, demand is being filled from overseas, Sohn said. Also, because of that increasing global competition, businesses are holding down costs by not hiring. If hiring doesn’t improve, the recovery could be in jeopardy because consumers worried about their job prospects will stop spending. That’s been the driving force in the U.S. economy.

Hiring in health care and construction helped offset losses in factories and other industries, such as information, professional and business services and government, Friday’s report said.

Last month’s power blackout in the Northeast and Midwest was unlikely to have affected either of the monthly surveys, Labor Department analysts said.

Labor Department analysts believe the survey of businesses provides a more reliable picture of the jobs market than the household survey. The payroll report is based on a larger sample and estimates “are regularly anchored to” counts derived from employment insurance tax records, said Kathleen P. Utgoff, Bureau of Labor Statistics commissioner.

Last month, the number of people in the labor force remained largely unchanged, with just 10,000 giving up their job searches. The labor force is comprised of those working and looking for work.
Nearly 2 million people in August were unemployed for 27 weeks or more, representing nearly 22 percent of all jobless workers. Those figures were similar to July numbers.

More

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News
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1 posted on 09/05/2003 11:15:15 AM PDT by Afronaut
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To: Afronaut
unemployment rate fell from 6.2 percent to 6.1 percent while companies slashed payrolls by 93,000. How is that? Answer:

Last month, the number of people in the labor force remained largely unchanged, with just 10,000 giving up their job searches. The labor force is comprised of those working and looking for work. Nearly 2 million people in August were unemployed for 27 weeks or more, representing nearly 22 percent of all jobless workers. Those figures were similar to July numbers.

Take out the Bush led spending spree; what would we be looking at here?

3 posted on 09/05/2003 11:18:55 AM PDT by Afronaut
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To: Afronaut
Just lost my $80K/year engineering position.
4 posted on 09/05/2003 11:39:47 AM PDT by Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
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To: Afronaut
Take out the Bush led spending spree; what would we be looking at here?

An economic recovery, with unemployment the traditionally lagging indicator.

5 posted on 09/05/2003 11:42:20 AM PDT by Coop (God bless our troops!)
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To: Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
its happening all over the country.

as I predicted months ago, 4Q is going to be bad for jobs. white collar jobs are melting away, corporate america is creating a new business model for themselves that move white collar labor offshore, add this to what we know is happening in manufacturing, and you can see where this is going. if something is not done to break the re-formation of the business model towards offshore labor, some very serious times are ahead.
6 posted on 09/05/2003 11:45:02 AM PDT by oceanview
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To: Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
stay on this thread, the free traders will be along soon to tell you that you were overpaid, that you have "buggy whip" skills, and all the rest.
7 posted on 09/05/2003 11:46:01 AM PDT by oceanview
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To: Coop
"An economic recovery, with unemployment the traditionally lagging indicator. "

Traditionally, unemployment does not lag two years into a recovery.

8 posted on 09/05/2003 11:46:22 AM PDT by ex-snook (American jobs need BALANCED TRADE. You buy from us, we buy from you.)
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To: oceanview
stay on this thread, the free traders will be along soon to tell you that you were overpaid, that you have "buggy whip" skills, and all the rest.

And the gloom 'n doomers are already here telling us Armageddon is fast approaching. Meanwhile my 401K is continuing to increase in value, I have more of my own money to spend, consumer spending is excellent, and we're approaching the Christmas season which will mean seasonal hirings.

9 posted on 09/05/2003 11:48:55 AM PDT by Coop (God bless our troops!)
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To: oceanview
Conversely, the central-planners will be here to explain that you are entitled to a "living wage," and the only answer is government intervention. I love strawman fallacies.
10 posted on 09/05/2003 11:49:45 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: ex-snook
Traditionally, unemployment does not lag two years into a recovery.

Traditionally terrorists don't slam airliners into massive office and DoD buildings, thereby severely harming our nation's infrastructure and sense of security, thereby leading to two large, separate military conflicts and a whole slew of increased security measures and associated costs. Yet the economy, while sputtering, has absolutely amazed me with its ability to withstand such devastation.

The recovery started seemed to start in late Spring/early Summer 2003.

11 posted on 09/05/2003 11:51:13 AM PDT by Coop (God bless our troops!)
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To: Coop
seasonal hiring? where, at walmart and target? are you seriously telling us those are real jobs?
12 posted on 09/05/2003 11:53:37 AM PDT by oceanview
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To: oceanview
stay on this thread, the free traders will be along soon to tell you that you were overpaid, that you have "buggy whip" skills, and all the rest.

Yeah, I've heard that line of BS. I work (for two months, until my termination becomes effective) for a optical transport builder, doing research. I program test systems using some of the most sophisticated software tools known. Some "buggy-whip". Word is that the development work will be moved offshore and that all personnel not involved in maintenance (lower paying jobs) will be whacked. I'll likely be able to find work, that is until my next employer starts eyeing his stock options, looking for that quick boost, or the latest fashion in pump-and-dump schemes.

13 posted on 09/05/2003 11:56:33 AM PDT by Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
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To: 1rudeboy
Conversely, the central-planners will be here to explain that you are entitled to a "living wage," and the only answer is government intervention. I love strawman fallacies.

No one said anything about central planning, that's another red herring, akin to the buggy-whip argument. It's quite likley that your nonsensical message traveled to FR over equipment my employer builds (or used to build, when it moves offshore). I guess you would rather the Red Chinese build the systems on which you depend. Or perhaps intelligent individuals like myself could be herded into labor camps to increase the bonuses and stock portfolios of our corporate overlords

14 posted on 09/05/2003 12:02:05 PM PDT by Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
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To: oceanview
Didn't take them long.
15 posted on 09/05/2003 12:04:31 PM PDT by Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
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To: oceanview
are you seriously telling us those are real jobs?

Are you telling me they're not?

16 posted on 09/05/2003 12:04:52 PM PDT by Coop (God bless our troops!)
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To: Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
Speaking of nonsense, how do you propose that your job be saved?
17 posted on 09/05/2003 12:06:34 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
Didn't take them long.

Imagine that. And on a conservative website, no less.

18 posted on 09/05/2003 12:08:52 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: GoOrdnance
Yeah, just like before.
19 posted on 09/05/2003 12:11:06 PM PDT by stuartcr
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To: Coop
Quite a stretch to blame the 'employment lag' indicator on 9/11. Since 9/11 we added plenty of government payments and jobs into the economy. From Homeland Security, military production contracts, armed forces buildup, nation building, etc. Employment has been 'lagging' well before 9/11.
20 posted on 09/05/2003 12:22:12 PM PDT by ex-snook (American jobs need BALANCED TRADE. You buy from us, we buy from you.)
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To: Coop
Would you be able to support your family on one of those jobs that sell 95% foreign products? The pay with no benefits (unless you're management) somehow doesn't include your "rising 401K". I'm glad you're doing well for now. Enjoy it while it lasts, no one is immune to the changing climate.

No flames please, just my stating an opinion.
21 posted on 09/05/2003 12:25:21 PM PDT by Thisiswhoweare
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To: ex-snook

The average lag for employment in a recovery is three months. August was the TWENTIETH month of lag. These jobs are never coming back. All the unemployed need to apply for welfare in the next month or two. Of course, that will mean higher taxes for the employed, but it's a small price to pay for our fine congressmen, who just voted themselves a raise yesterday to $158,500/year, and those $20,000,000/yr. CEOs who know which slave countries to move their businesses to to prop up their stinking stock. Start practicing saying "Pres. Dean" if things don't turn around FAST.
22 posted on 09/05/2003 12:27:20 PM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: 1rudeboy
Conversely, the central-planners will be here to explain that you are entitled to a "living wage," and the only answer is government intervention.

On the contrary, I want the government to butt out.

No more taxpayer money going to fund organizations like the OPIC or Import-Export Bank, who make their living facilitating the export of US jobs. No more H1Bs etc.

No more corporate welfare.

23 posted on 09/05/2003 12:29:03 PM PDT by skeeter (Fac ut vivas)
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: ex-snook
Quite a stretch to blame the 'employment lag' indicator on 9/11.

ROTFLMAO!!! I'm sorry I find any comment involving 9/11 to be so amusing. But for anyone to sit here and pretend the economy was not severely impacted for years and years to come by those terrorist attacks... well, it's not even worth debating.

25 posted on 09/05/2003 12:32:36 PM PDT by Coop (God bless our troops!)
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To: Afronaut
How is that? Answer

Add to that the magical "seasonally adjusted" number. That's used to smooth out any bumps along the road. I say throw it out and let the unemployment number bounce around. We're big boys and can take being told the truth.
26 posted on 09/05/2003 12:44:54 PM PDT by lelio
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To: Coop
Meanwhile my 401K is continuing to increase in value

So its gone from 1/2 of its value in 2000 to 3/4ers?
27 posted on 09/05/2003 12:46:28 PM PDT by lelio
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To: 1rudeboy
Speaking of nonsense, how do you propose that your job be saved?

I never said it should be. I'm just amazed that people like you show no concern or even asky why the jobs are being lost. Did it ever occur to you that the people with their hands on the controls might not be too bright? Almost every round of layoffs at this company X has been at the talent level, the people actually doing work. You tell me which is smarter: Layoff 10 $80K/year engineers who produce technical innovation or Layoff one 800K/year senior VP who produces powerpoint slides and failed management schemes. My company keeps eliminating engineers, but we seem to be awash with useless executives who do nothing but watch other people work.

28 posted on 09/05/2003 12:47:38 PM PDT by Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
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To: lelio
Yep. It's now a 301K, up from a 201K.
29 posted on 09/05/2003 12:47:57 PM PDT by Coop (God bless our troops!)
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To: lelio
Meanwhile my 401K is continuing to increase in value

So its gone from 1/2 of its value in 2000 to 3/4ers?


Haha! Goodun. And don't forget the effect is temporary. Once these morons have their overseas operations humming they'll be wondering why the unemployed Americans aren't buying.
30 posted on 09/05/2003 12:49:25 PM PDT by Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
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To: skeeter
Absolutely correct on OPIC and the IE Bank. Talk about corporate welfare.... current immigration policy(?) is exactly that in it's purest form. Wouldn't it be great to be to hire all these illegals with bogus SS #'s to flip hamburgers, pay them minmal wages knowing full well the sucker taxpayers will be soaked even more to support those worker's housing, medical, food, etc.
31 posted on 09/05/2003 12:50:46 PM PDT by american spirit (ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION = NATIONAL SUICIDE)
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To: Coop
Are you telling me they're not?

You can not be serious with this comment.

32 posted on 09/05/2003 12:51:54 PM PDT by riri
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To: 1rudeboy
Imagine that. And on a conservative website, no less.

I'm a registered Repub. Looks like we really are the stupid party. You'll be laughing when those critical JDAM parts just don't seem to be available from the PRC, and darnit, they aren't made anywhere in the good ole US of A.

33 posted on 09/05/2003 12:52:49 PM PDT by Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
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To: riri
You can not be serious with this comment.

Of course I can. Are you telling me they're not?

34 posted on 09/05/2003 12:53:47 PM PDT by Coop (God bless our troops!)
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To: Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
Just lost my $80K/year engineering position.

Sorry to hear that, I have been there a few times too. My prayers are out you and yours. Good luck. It with the lords help will get better.
35 posted on 09/05/2003 12:55:49 PM PDT by scottlang
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To: american spirit
Yes, those who claim any action taken to stem the flow of jobs abroad is tantamount to 'government intervention' have turned reality on it's head.
36 posted on 09/05/2003 12:56:48 PM PDT by skeeter (Fac ut vivas)
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To: ex-snook
"An economic recovery, with unemployment the traditionally lagging indicator. "
Traditionally, unemployment does not lag two years into a recovery.


If it lags much more it may lag a dem into the whitehouse.
37 posted on 09/05/2003 12:57:32 PM PDT by scottlang
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To: Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
You confuse an understanding that some solutions cause more harm than good with an apparent lack of concern. As for executives, what else is new? Some folks rise to the level of their own incompetence.
38 posted on 09/05/2003 12:58:35 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Let's start by realizing that by converting engineers to cashiers, we're depleting the tax base of this nation. So where is the money going to come from for some near-future big price-tag items, like social security for the baby boomers? Look in the mirror, pal. Yes, YOUR taxes and withholdings will go up as a result of diminished wages. So much for the comfort of sitting back and saying, "Well, it sucks being you".

And how many engineers went to public universities, or had student loans, again partially funded by taxpayers? Heck, you didn't need to send them to college, just teach them how to use a cash register! What a waste of public tax dollars.

This nation didn't get to the top by producing legions of ditch-diggers, nor will it stay on top if that's what we regress to.

Let's also look at the constraints placed on American manufacturers operating in the good 'old USA. Does your manufacturing process involve chemicals, noise from equipment, or otherwise less-than-pleasant operating conditions? Whoa! You'll have a legion of gov't agencies up your ass with track shoes. The place I work at uses small amounts of isopropyl alcohol for some processes. You'd think we were generating nuclear waste, the way the company has to deal with it. Meanwhile, plants and India and China dump huge amounts of raw waste containing heavy metals and other deadly contaminants into the nearest storm grating or river.

Do I need to go into gov't regs covering everything from the number of toilets, to handicap access? Nothing like setting up shop in an older building to try and save some green on floorspace, only to find out you have to widen most of the doorways and install elevators.

There simply is no "free trade" between the US and China, or India. Its all one sided, being led by globalist socialists bent on the Marxist dream of redistribution of the wealth, while keeping a healthy portion for themselves, and weakening the US economy to the point that we as a nation will become irrelevent.

Its a shame to see so many 'conservatives' following the Pied Piper. I'll be damned if I ever sell myself out, or this nation, for a few bucks. If that's what a conservative is all about, I'll call myself a patriot instead.

39 posted on 09/05/2003 1:01:10 PM PDT by kidao35
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To: Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
"VP who produces powerpoint slides and failed management schemes"

You forgot jetting around the US attending meetings...That could be done with a speaker phone. I have seen this all up close and it is not pretty.

After the Huge GWB admin. speeding spree is complete, you will see what the real deal is.

40 posted on 09/05/2003 1:03:01 PM PDT by Afronaut
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To: skeeter
Please. Reality "turned on its head" is the use of weasel-words like "any action taken" combined with an argument that amounts to nothing more than "it's for the children."
41 posted on 09/05/2003 1:03:20 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: scottlang
Thanks for the prayers. Fortunately, due to the obvious incompetence of the pointy-haired individuals running this show, I am well prepared. If I don't land a position by my effective termination, I'm debt-free and ready with plenty of savings. Still, it's nice to here genuine concern.
42 posted on 09/05/2003 1:03:41 PM PDT by Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
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To: Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
Or when the value of the dollar declines and you are taking the wheelbarrow full of your stock dividends to buy bread and milk.

These guys are straight out of the Grapes of Wrath. They'll condemn us all to Hooverville with this idiocy.

43 posted on 09/05/2003 1:03:45 PM PDT by riri
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To: Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
I never said it should be. I'm just amazed that people like you show no concern or even asky why the jobs are being lost.

The Free Traders don't care. They views economics like a religion. You don't question the dogma, just worship at the altar.

44 posted on 09/05/2003 1:04:30 PM PDT by RogueIsland
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To: kidao35
I agree totally.
45 posted on 09/05/2003 1:04:33 PM PDT by scottlang
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To: Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
You are more then welcome. Friend.
46 posted on 09/05/2003 1:06:00 PM PDT by scottlang
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To: Afronaut
You forgot jetting around the US attending meetings...That could be done with a speaker phone. I have seen this all up close and it is not pretty

Oh, yeah, it's the Clinton approach to running a business, writ large. This past spring the execs had a "brainstorming" session in Napa Valley. The only things that came out if it were hangovers and a failed reorganization strategy. Right after that, the company pres accepted a $3M retention bonus in the same quarter the company lost $50M. But according to some of the apologists in this thread, it's business that's infallible, y'know. Just shut up and move along. Your job was going the way of the dodo anyway and the gross mismanagement had nothing at all to do with it.

47 posted on 09/05/2003 1:09:29 PM PDT by Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
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To: 1rudeboy
Please. Reality "turned on its head" is the use of weasel-words like "any action taken" combined with an argument that amounts to nothing more than "it's for the children."

How about a translation?

48 posted on 09/05/2003 1:09:49 PM PDT by skeeter (Fac ut vivas)
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To: Afronaut
give thanks to this miserable failure regime
49 posted on 09/05/2003 1:11:19 PM PDT by Bill Davis FR
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To: riri
the political system will snap before that happens. Dean will get elected, and these same people will be posting wondering why, even though we are telling them why it could happen over a year in advance.
50 posted on 09/05/2003 1:11:39 PM PDT by oceanview
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