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All Hospitals Must Permit Euthanasia
Expatica.com ^ | June 13, 2003 | belgian news

Posted on 09/09/2003 8:10:36 AM PDT by MarMema

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To: MarMema
Please come back to #2345 Call to Action Thread re: Terri Schiavo. BREAKING NEWS... Is spouse's attorney finally losing control of the guardianship?
61 posted on 09/09/2003 12:57:25 PM PDT by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org/)
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To: floriduh voter
Thank you and much Glory to God for this news!!!
62 posted on 09/09/2003 1:04:04 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
2nd NEWS BULLETIN of this afternoon on last section of thread. IMO, diabolical. Unbelievable!
63 posted on 09/09/2003 1:07:31 PM PDT by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org/)
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To: nmh
A viable unborn baby is no different. How do you justify speeding up their death? Are you god? Aren't you playing god? Who are YOU to determine when is it right for another person to die? When people are that ill they are NOT in their right mind.

I think you misunderstood me.

64 posted on 09/09/2003 2:50:52 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: 3catsanadog
I'm torn also.

<big snip>

I enjoyed reading your post. ("enjoyed" might not be exactly the right word, but it will have to do.)

I am in EMT training myself. Some of these issues do come up. You definitely do not want to play God, but there can be situations where attempting to resuscitate someone is not a humane thing to do.

There can be DNR orders, as you undoubtedly know. But in Virginia you have to see the originals. Getting a photocopy would not be good.

All this has been on my mind a lot recently. So has religion. It all ties in.

It's not real neat.

The pay certainly is great tho, isn't it? Just wonderful.

The EMT's around here all work for free. It is all volunteer. I figure anyone who goes into doing something like this must be brain-damaged. Me included. You get yourself into some bad situations. People may even try to kill you.

They talk in the class about "bad calls". Those are the kind which require psychological counseling.

All kinds of fun.

65 posted on 09/09/2003 3:25:45 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: MarMema
Ah, and herein lies the slope.

<snip>

It is not that easy. It may seem like it is to someone who is standing on the sidelines, but it is not.

66 posted on 09/09/2003 3:43:26 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: MarMema
Good point. If you rationalize one case of euthanasia, then it's not a great leap in logic to rationalize more and more cases of different circumstances. Where does it stop? It won't if I know government. Next thing you know, they'll be killing people for not having the correct opinions.
67 posted on 09/09/2003 3:48:07 PM PDT by virgil
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To: browardchad
except for "seven year-olds," because, of course, they can't yet publicly foster the idea of euthanasia for defective children

This is Belgium we're talking about. They're probably saving the seven year-olds for the pedophiles.

68 posted on 09/09/2003 3:52:38 PM PDT by malakhi (Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.)
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To: The Other Harry
It may seem like it is to someone who is standing on the sidelines, but it is not.

Who said I was "standing on the sidelines"?

I have 25 years experience in the medical field as a professional and have probably done a lot more CPR than you have. Maybe when you catch up you will begin to see that it is actually very easy. Let me help you out.

A person who is not dying of cancer and about to expire deserves a chance to continue living.

People who have brain injuries should not be starved/dehydrated to death slowly.

Infants born with correctable defects should not be allowed to be dehydrated to death because they also happen to have Downs Syndrome.

Elderly confused patients with difficulty swallowing should not be dehydrated because they are elderly and confused and require help with a feeding tube.

The president of the Vermont Medical Society has no right to simply kill a patient in his office because he has decided he thinks she is ready to die.

New policies about organ donations are being made so that patients on life support can be utilized to supply organs for others.

Futile care policies being written in many hospitals means they will be deciding on the quality of life for you, no matter what you and your family want.

69 posted on 09/09/2003 4:25:53 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: The Other Harry
The Issue is Equality
Nancy Guilfoy Valko

It happened more than 10 years ago. I was pregnant with my third child and the controversy over Baby Doe was still swirling.

Baby Doe was a newborn boy who was born with Down Syndrome and a defect in his esophagus that needed surgical correction before he could drink from a bottle. Although this operation was routine for newborns with this problem, Baby Doe's parents refused it, and a court upheld their decision. Several parents came forward offering to adopt Baby Doe and even pay for the operation. They were rebuffed, and Baby Doe died six days later without being fed.

I was shocked. Why didn't the court or the law protect Baby Doe from such obvious discrimination? How could the parents' lawyer maintain that it was a "loving decision"? Did that mean that parents who make sure their disabled children receive life–saving treatment are unloving?

Four months later I gained a new understanding of the gravity of those questions when my daughter, Karen, was born with Down Syndrome and an even more serious condition than Baby Doe's: a life–threatening heart defect. I was stunned when Karen's doctor said that there was an operation available with an 80 to 90 percent success rate, but that he would support my husband and me "100 percent" even if we chose not to operate.

I was furious. As a nurse, I knew that such an operation would have been presented as a technological blessing, not an option, if my baby were not mentally retarded. I told the doctor that I resented such discrimination, that my daughter had rights of her own, and that if he was prejudiced against children with Down Syndrome, he could not touch her.

To the doctor's credit, he recognized his well–intentioned mistake and promised that he would do his absolute best for my daughter. And he did.

But it frightened me that there was such a biased attitude among even good, caring doctors. Could I really trust any of those health–care providers on whom my child and I depended? I came to realize that Baby Doe's parents "private" decision had an enormous impact on public policy and attitudes, leaving my baby at risk if I did not protect her.

Even though both Baby Doe and my Karen died several years ago (one by parental decree, one despite the best medical care), I found them often on my mind as I followed the Christine Busalacchi controversy. She, like Baby Doe and Karen, had mental disabilities, although at different points on the disability spectrum. Christine's father, like Baby Doe's parents, felt his child had no quality of life and went to court to prevent feeding. Mr. Busalacchi also "won" the right not by changing the law but by political and judicial aquiescense.

But the same question raised in the Baby Doe case must be raised again: Should parents have absolute power over their children's lives or do the state and society have an obligation to ensure that everyone, disabled or able–bodied, has a right to necessary care and treatment?

We have forgotten that, before the Baby Doe case, the answer used to be obvious.

Why do we view harm to children and the elderly as an issue that the state and society must address regardless of family involvement, while maintaining that no one may even question whether a father has a right to act on his opinion that his mentally disabled daughter would be better off dead? Are mentally disabled people any less vulnerable?

The Busalacchi controversy was not about making a medical decision: Christine was neither dying nor too sick to receive food. In fact, in 1991, she was able to take most of her food by mouth before her father insisted that only the feeding tube be used.

The controversy was not about the severity of disability: There are many people who cannot smile, eat, or laugh like Christine could (even as a so–called "reflex") who are currently receiving care and treatment. And despite the offensive and medically untestable label of "vegetative," a recent study showed that most of the families studied were unwilling to withdraw food and water.

No, the issue is really about equality. No one should be denied care or treatment required for others just because he or she has a mental disability.

But for now, the Missouri Supreme Court and the state administration have refused to act on cases such as Busalacchi's, allowing family choice to be the overriding issue. And, as I personally found out, it is not hard to find doctors or others who would be willing to concur with the family in death decisions.

It is families like mine who have tried to give their mentally disabled loved ones the best quality of life possible who must now watch sadly as the planned death of Christine Busalacchi is portrayed as a victory for family rights.

The disability rights movement has had great success in ensuring access to parking spots, public buildings and education for the disabled. It's a tragedy when the disabled cannot be ensured access to something as simple as food and water. -----------------------------------------------------

Oh, and btw, Nancy is an RN with decades of experience working in intensive care units.

70 posted on 09/09/2003 5:16:07 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
I have 25 years experience in the medical field as a professional and have probably done a lot more CPR than you have...

Okay. I withdraw my previous comment. I am just used to hearing opinions from people who have no personal experience with it.

I am sure you have performed more CPR than I have. All I have ever done has been in a classroom.

I also agree with you that people do deserve a chance to live. That is why we do this, I think.

71 posted on 09/09/2003 7:59:14 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: The Other Harry
Thanks. Here is my free advice...LOL.

In life there is suffering and pain, but every day you work you will have a chance to make a difference in someone's life or day.

I was most touched that an aide said to me last month, she knew I really cared about the patients. ( That means sometimes I can be hard to work with, I suppose.)

Burnout and indifference are easy to give in to, but don't let peer pressure take you there.

Even if you can just make a needle insertion as painless as possible, that's a start. And I have seen people really respond to touch and comforting words, so don't hold back if you have them to give.

There, now you're set. :-)

72 posted on 09/09/2003 8:10:55 PM PDT by MarMema (KILLING ISN'T MEDICINE)
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To: MarMema
( That means sometimes I can be hard to work with, I suppose.)

The best people in any occupation are usually hard to work with.

73 posted on 09/10/2003 4:44:38 AM PDT by The Other Harry
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