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CRA Telemarketing

Posted on 09/11/2003 11:24:01 AM PDT by kingu

A few minutes ago, I received a phone call from one of the creatures I must hate in the world, that being the computer telemarketer. No person, just a glorified call-box that seeks out to annoy people. Was this from some typical liberal institution? Nope, it was from the California Republican Assembly.

I'd love to get ahold of the full text of the message, I have to admit, I was so annoyed that I hardly listened. Some of the highlights that did penetrate my anger: McClintock is surging in the polls, Schwarzenegger has dropped by 50%, and that McClintock will help California by reducing electricity rates.

I must have missed where in the call it suggested that Davis be recalled, that Bustamante lose the replacement election. All that penetrated was it being an attack by one Republican on another.

If someone could please forward to me the phone number for the CRA, I would appreciate it. I want off of their phone list immediately. I don't pay for a telephone so that others can just use it for their own wishes without a) asking my permission first, b) offering a method to listen or not listen to the call, and c) offer a method of being removed from their phone list.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: California; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: mcclintock; recall; telemarketing
Some of the things I seriously question:

Where does this 50% down in the polls come from?

Is a 4-7% (depending on the poll) a surge?

How does Tom intend on lowering electric rates that are set by private companies?

Where does the CRA get off doing attack phone calls against fellow Republicans? This is NOT a primary.

1 posted on 09/11/2003 11:24:01 AM PDT by kingu
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To: kingu
Where does this 50% down in the polls come from?

Arnold was in the high forties in early polls. He is now in the low 20s in several polls. I'd say that's a 50% drop.

Can't understand why good news bothers you.

2 posted on 09/11/2003 11:26:56 AM PDT by ElkGroveDan (It's time for Arnold to stop splitting the Republican vote and step aside for the good of the party)
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To: kingu
Where does this 50% down in the polls come from?

Arnold was in the high forties in early polls. He is now in the low 20s in several polls. I'd say that's a 50% drop.

Can't understand why good news bothers you.

3 posted on 09/11/2003 11:27:21 AM PDT by ElkGroveDan (It's time for Arnold to stop splitting the Republican vote and step aside for the good of the party)
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To: kingu
Nope, it was from the California Republican Assembly.

That's what the message said. I wouldn't bet my life on it.

4 posted on 09/11/2003 11:28:41 AM PDT by dighton ("You have captured my liver.")
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To: ElkGroveDan
Arnold was in the high forties in early polls. He is now in the low 20s in several polls. I'd say that's a 50% drop.

Would you mind showing me two polls from the same organization that would demonstrate a 50% drop?
5 posted on 09/11/2003 11:28:53 AM PDT by kingu
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To: dighton
Kingu: Nope, it was from the California Republican Assembly.
dighton: That's what the message said. I wouldn't bet my life on it.


I wouldn't bet my life on it either, though playing with election laws is no minor thing. Someone would have to be seriously desperate to fake it, and we're not to the last week yet. :)
6 posted on 09/11/2003 11:30:57 AM PDT by kingu
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To: kingu
How does Tom intend on lowering electric rates that are set by private companies?

Electric rates are controlled by the Public Utilities Commission, not the companies. Tom has said that he will stipulate to the conflict of interest of a Davis appointee during the negotiations for our current long-term (and grossly overpriced) contracts. Voiding those contracts and re-negotiating them will allow the PUC to reduce rates.

7 posted on 09/11/2003 11:40:35 AM PDT by Bob (http://www.TomMcClintock.com)
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To: kingu
How does Tom intend on lowering electric rates that are set by private companies?

Electric rates are controlled by the Public Utilities Commission, not the companies. Tom has said that he will stipulate to the conflict of interest of a Davis appointee during the negotiations for our current long-term (and grossly overpriced) contracts. Voiding those contracts and re-negotiating them will allow the PUC to reduce rates.

8 posted on 09/11/2003 11:40:38 AM PDT by Bob (http://www.TomMcClintock.com)
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To: Bob
Electric rates are controlled by the Public Utilities Commission, not the companies. Tom has said that he will stipulate to the conflict of interest of a Davis appointee during the negotiations for our current long-term (and grossly overpriced) contracts. Voiding those contracts and re-negotiating them will allow the PUC to reduce rates.

Tom should file that lawsuit right now instead of waiting until he is Governor, since as a ratepaying citizen, he is a party to that contract. The PUC is unable to set rates, never has been able to. The PUC is able to approve rates proposed by electric companies and able to set temporary rebates or increases. They can not by fiat raise or lower electrical rates.
9 posted on 09/11/2003 11:47:37 AM PDT by kingu
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To: ElkGroveDan; dighton; Bob
Do I take the lack of comment about a computer calling people is unobjectionable by you?
10 posted on 09/11/2003 11:50:33 AM PDT by kingu
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To: kingu
Where does this 50% down in the polls come from?

That is from the McNader folk taking a question early on that asked people whether they would CONSIDER voting for Arnold to a question in another poll where they were asked who they were goign to vote for if they election were that day. Big F'ing Deal.

I have yet to see this surge. The only time McNader moved was when Simon pulled out and oh yeah he picked up 2% the other day when Ueberroth dropped out but then so did Arnold and Bustamante.

11 posted on 09/11/2003 11:53:54 AM PDT by Dave S
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To: Dave S
I have yet to see this surge. The only time McNader moved was when Simon pulled out and oh yeah he picked up 2% the other day when Ueberroth dropped out but then so did Arnold and Bustamante.

A couple things here. First, can you stop calling Tom McClintock "McNader"? Ralph Nader, even if you don't agree with his views, ran with the full support of his party and did not engage in Green Party on Green Party attacks.

The other thing is could you tell me where this poll is that shows the changes after Peter Ueberroth dropped out of the race? I keep hearing it quoted on FR, but I've yet to see the numbers.. Well, not that I usually trust overnight polling, which is what it would have had to be, but I still would like to see the source.
12 posted on 09/11/2003 12:07:20 PM PDT by kingu
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To: kingu
Tom should file that lawsuit right now instead of waiting until he is Governor, since as a ratepaying citizen, he is a party to that contract.

IANAL, but there is a suit currently being heard on this point. Davis can't stipulate to the conflict of interest since it was his appointee involved. Tom will.

The PUC is unable to set rates, never has been able to. The PUC is able to approve rates proposed by electric companies and able to set temporary rebates or increases. They can not by fiat raise or lower electrical rates.

Do you really think that the companies would dare to not propose lower rates in the face of greatly reduced costs? It would be suicide for them not to.

13 posted on 09/11/2003 12:35:37 PM PDT by Bob (http://www.TomMcClintock.com)
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To: kingu
Join Us…Your One Thread To All The California Recall News Threads!

Want on our daily or major news ping lists? Freepmail DoctorZin

14 posted on 09/11/2003 12:56:35 PM PDT by DoctorZIn
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To: kingu
Laws against telemarketers often don't apply to political campaigns, charities, and surveys because they're not selling anything. I doubt there's anything you can do about the computer calling; lots of people got a recording of President Bush urging them to vote in 2002, and those calls work the same way.

The reason you are on their call list is that you have donated to them in the past, you registered to vote as a Republican, or you included your phone number (which is optional) on your voter registration application.

In the interests of my privacy, I registered as a "decline-to-state" and I provided only the required information (no phone number). I have never received a call from any political party.

15 posted on 09/11/2003 1:02:35 PM PDT by heleny
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To: Bob
Do you really think that the companies would dare to not propose lower rates in the face of greatly reduced costs? It would be suicide for them not to.

The following is from an interview between Davis and Frontline, in May of 2001. I include this interview before my reply, because it's rather important...

FL: The logical question is, if you're locked into long-term contracts--which I assume the ratepayers or the taxpayers of California are obligated to pay--and at the same time, you have a surplus by 2003, then we, long-term, will be locked into paying for electricity at a very high rate, no?

Gov. Joe: I'm assured by David Freeman and his team that they have cut the best possible deal, so that this year about 40 percent of our power is purchased through long-term contracts rather than on the spot market; next year about 55 percent; the next two years about 70 percent. Then it drops back down to around 60 percent, because we expect by about year five, the price of electricity will have fallen, and the spot market may be the cheapest way to buy power. Today it is absolutely the most expensive. ...

California will buy, this year and next, 70 percent of the anticipated (in 2001) energy needs of California at the contract rates. That energy is passed on to the utilities who are required to pay no more than 20 percent over the spot rate. The remaining energy needs they buy at spot prices.

If the state pays 6.5 cents per kWhour, and the spot market rate is 1.2 cents per kWhour, the state bleeds money and the utilities make a profit. If the spot rate is over 6.5 cents, the utilities lose money.

Unfortunately, the market spot rate paid is not released to the general public until six months afterwards. Back in January, the spot rate for the majority of the day was .9 cents per kWatt-hour.

Not only is the state bleeding money because of this wacko deal, but if the utilities energy requirements fall under the 70 percent threshhold, the state has to sell the excess energy on the spot market.

So, to get back to your question, yes, the electric companies dare not to ask for a rate change because the PUC will hammer them. The only reason why the 'energy rebate' is coming is that the PUC itself negociated the payments from generators, not from the utilities.

In addition, the only way California's Governor could change this is by defaulting on all contracts, going into bankruptcy, and forcing a judge to look at all these deals. Taxpayers and ratepayers have more rights in this case than the Government of California.
16 posted on 09/11/2003 1:08:11 PM PDT by kingu
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To: kingu
The things you lose by not choosing a party affiliation in CA are that you can't choose the local party central committee members, and you might not be allowed to vote in party primaries for the national GOP (I'm not too clear, since the laws seem to change every year).

CA has what it calls the "modified open primary" system, so that a decline-to-state voter can request a partisan ballot for a party that permits it during the primary election. Last year, the CA republican and democrat parties, plus two others, allowed these voters to choose their partisan ballot.

17 posted on 09/11/2003 1:09:42 PM PDT by heleny
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To: heleny
Laws against telemarketers often don't apply to political campaigns, charities, and surveys because they're not selling anything. I doubt there's anything you can do about the computer calling; lots of people got a recording of President Bush urging them to vote in 2002, and those calls work the same way.

I'd object no matter who is programming the computers to call. Charities and surveys usually have live people doing the calling, and I don't mind that. I can ask them to remove me from the phone list.

But an automated call, with no human interaction, is outlawed in the state of California and has been for at least a decade. The only exception is for pre-permission automated notifications, such as automated calls from the school when your child is absent.

CRA didn't give me an option to accept or decline the call, didn't give me a method to get off their phone list, and I can't find their phone number anywhere to let them know my wishes.
18 posted on 09/11/2003 1:15:46 PM PDT by kingu
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To: kingu
The other thing is could you tell me where this poll is that shows the changes after Peter Ueberroth dropped out of the race? I keep hearing it quoted on FR, but I've yet to see the numbers.. Well, not that I usually trust overnight polling, which is what it would have had to be, but I still would like to see the source.

It was reported in one of the threads yesterday. If I remember correctly they were not from public polls. I think it was a poll done by California Republican Party but I could be wrong.

19 posted on 09/11/2003 1:18:35 PM PDT by Dave S
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To: kingu
But an automated call, with no human interaction, is outlawed in the state of California and has been for at least a decade. The only exception is for pre-permission automated notifications, such as automated calls from the school when your child is absent.

That appears to be a restriction only on telemarketers. Generally, noncommercial purposes such as your example are exempt. A political party isn't selling anything, so it is not a telemarketer, and the restrictions on telemarketers do not apply.

Here's the relevant law. From www.leginfo.ca.gov

CALIFORNIA CODES
CIVIL CODE
SECTION 1770
1770.  (a) The following unfair methods of competition and unfair or
deceptive acts or practices undertaken by any person in a
transaction intended to result or which results in the sale or lease
of goods or services to any consumer are unlawful:
...
   (22) (A) Disseminating an unsolicited prerecorded message by
telephone without an unrecorded, natural voice first informing the
person answering the telephone of the name of the caller or the
organization being represented, and either the address or the
telephone number of the caller, and without obtaining the consent of
that person to listen to the prerecorded message.

20 posted on 09/11/2003 2:39:18 PM PDT by heleny
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To: kingu
I quoted the wrong law. Actually, I think you meant
CALIFORNIA CODES
PUBLIC UTILITIES CODE
SECTION 2871-2876

2871.  As used in this article, "automatic dialing-announcing device"
means any automatic equipment which incorporates a storage
capability of telephone numbers to be called or a random or
sequential number generator capable of producing numbers to be called
and the capability, working alone or in conjunction with other
equipment, to disseminate a prerecorded message to the telephone
number called.

2872.  ...
   (d) This article does not prohibit the use of an automatic
dialing-announcing device by any person exclusively on behalf of any
of the following:
...
   (2) An exempt organization under the Bank and Corporation Tax Law
(Part 11 (commencing with Section 23001) of Division 2 of the Revenue
and Taxation Code) for purposes of contacting its members.
...


2873.  Automatic dialing-announcing devices may be used to place
calls over telephone lines only pursuant to a prior agreement between
the persons involved, whereby the person called has agreed that he
or she consents to receive such calls from the person calling, or as
specified in Section 2874.
...
This law may not apply to your call unless you can prove that they used an "automatic dialing-announcing device." For instance, if a person instead of the machine dialed your phone number, it might not count.

More likely is that the CRA is an exempt political organization for 2872(d)(2), above, under 23701(r) of the REVENUE AND TAXATION CODE.

21 posted on 09/11/2003 3:02:26 PM PDT by heleny
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To: kingu
Considering that it was an attack call...perhaps it was from the Bustamante camp, picking up the sleaze and dirt of the Davis team for his own use. Remember how effective it was in the primary Simon v. Riordan? I wouldn't put it past any of those "people" to make automated calls and carefully word the script so as to assume it was prepared by the Republicans. Tin foil on....
22 posted on 09/11/2003 4:39:37 PM PDT by kmiller1k (remain calm)
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