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How can anyone be a bystander while someone is stabbed? Mark Steyn
Steyn Online ^ | 12 Sep 2003 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 09/12/2003 7:26:42 PM PDT by Rummyfan

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To: MARTIAL MONK
What, exactly does Wog mean?

"Back in the days of the British Empire, the Brits had a rude word for the natives of the countries they ruled: wogs. It was said to be a derisive abbreviation of the phrase worthy Oriental gentlemen. Later an anonymous wag observed, 'Wogs start at Calais' — that is, right across the English Channel. Even the French were wogs!"

----Joseph Sobran

51 posted on 09/13/2003 2:33:43 AM PDT by lorrainer (Oh, was I ranting? Sorry....)
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To: scholar; Bullish; linear; yoda swings
Ping
52 posted on 09/13/2003 3:06:44 AM PDT by knighthawk (Freedom is my believe, for you I would die)
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To: Rummyfan
Wonderful!
53 posted on 09/13/2003 3:25:59 AM PDT by lainde
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To: Rummyfan
Nobody will ever be repeatedly stabbed in my presence - the attacker had better hope that their first cut is a good one.
54 posted on 09/13/2003 3:36:52 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (Just a mudblood RINO)
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To: Think free or die; BartMan1
If I recall, one interesting note from the studies was that someone from a rural background was more likely to intervene than someone from a city background. Perhaps this correlates to the Kurdish woman's sentiments?

I think you're onto something, but it also is a very telling notion about the 2000 presidential results map, the real reason the behind red and blue.

55 posted on 09/13/2003 5:39:45 AM PDT by IncPen
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To: IncPen
It may have more to do with this map. The libs in the dem controlled cities are the ones who seem to be more reluctant to pass CCW laws.


56 posted on 09/13/2003 6:32:04 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat.)
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To: IncPen
You may need some more information. A CCW is a Concealed Carry Weapon license.
Vermont and Alaska are the only two states where a license isn't necessary.
"Shall Issue" means that the controlling authorities can't pick and choose individuals they deem worthy to have their rights. They have to issue the license if the applicant is a law abiding citizen.
"May Issue" means the sheriff can deny an application if the person isn't a personal friend or contributor. That's why most sheriffs and police chief are for this type of law. It keeps the coffers full.
"Rights Denied" are just that. No license is possible.
57 posted on 09/13/2003 6:40:06 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat.)
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To: Prodigal Son
In the hey-day of the Britsh Empire, the Brits moved around a lot of workers (usually 'lesser' colonial types) to do the hard labor of the public service projects like the Suez Canal. These were called Workers-on-Government-Service, thus Wogs.

At least that is the explanation I got.
58 posted on 09/13/2003 7:00:13 AM PDT by Rummyfan
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To: AnnaZ
Maybe we shouldn't have dinner with him, after all. ;^)

Great article!
59 posted on 09/13/2003 7:08:10 AM PDT by diotima (So it's sorta social, demented and sad, but social.)
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To: Rummyfan
They, like those here that oppose carry laws, and shooting fleeing thugs, are waiting for the "government" and police to protect them. They have forgotten how to react to a threat other than calling for help.
60 posted on 09/13/2003 7:12:04 AM PDT by HoustonCurmudgeon (PEACE - Through Superior Firepower)
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To: Rummyfan
To expect the government to save you is to be a bystander in your own fate.

BTTT

61 posted on 09/13/2003 8:36:36 AM PDT by Gritty
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"To expect the government to save you is to be a bystander in your own fate."

So true, on so many levels.

62 posted on 09/13/2003 9:02:42 AM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: Shooter 2.5
"The libs in the dem controlled cities are the ones who seem to be more reluctant to pass CCW laws."

Except in Ohio, where the big impediment is RINO Gov. Bob Taft, who ran 5 years ago in support of CCW and has done everything he can to thwart it since.
63 posted on 09/13/2003 9:51:27 AM PDT by litany_of_lies
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To: diotima
Maybe we shouldn't have dinner with him, after all. ;^)
Eek... you're right. But after contemplation I've decided it's almost worth it.
 
(((sigh!)))

64 posted on 09/13/2003 10:22:19 AM PDT by AnnaZ (::: VOTE McCLINTOCK! ::: (Interns in Sacramento thank you in advance.) :::)
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To: HoustonCurmudgeon
The Swedes are Olive Oyl, they will cry, "Popeye! Help! Popeye! Save Me!" when their good pal Bluto turns on them...
America is Popeye.
Eat yer spinach, kids.
65 posted on 09/13/2003 10:25:47 AM PDT by ValerieUSA
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To: Shooter 2.5
I wasn't referring to any gun laws or ideologies in my comment.

I was simply stating that people in rural areas see the value in intervening and will do so, and then correlating that to Bush's support in those areas -- as opposed to urban folks who are used to having things taken care of, by the government ("for free"), as in a nanny-state.

For what it's worth, I support gun rights.
66 posted on 09/13/2003 11:11:39 AM PDT by IncPen
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To: Rummyfan; infowarrior; MARTIAL MONK; joesnuffy
It doesn't appear that wog is a particularly nice word nor is it an acronym for "worthy oriental gentleman".

Merriam Webster

Main Entry: wog
Pronunciation: 'wäg, 'wog
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps short for golliwog
Date: circa 1929
chiefly British, usually disparaging : a dark-skinned foreigner; especially : one from the Middle East or Far East

Word Reference.com

wog1 [wɒg]
noun (British) (slang) (derogatory)
a foreigner, esp. one who is not White [ETYMOLOGY: probably from golliwog]

Your Dictionary.com

wog
n. Chiefly British Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a person of color, especially a person from northern Africa or western or southern Asia.

Dictionary.com- lists a similar definition.

Online Etymology

wog - World War II British armed forces slang for "native of India" (especially as a servant or laborer), possibly shortened from golliwog.

http://rec-puzzles.org/sol.pl/language/english/etymology/acronym

Supposed (but not real) acronyms:

wog Worthy (Wealthy) Oriental Gentleman

American Heritage Dictionary

NOUN: Chiefly British Offensive Slang Used as a disparaging term for a person of color, especially a person from northern Africa or western or southern Asia.
ETYMOLOGY: Probably short for golliwog.

-------

Which would bring us to golliwog: (again the American Heritage Dictionary)

NOUN: A doll fashioned in grotesque caricature of a Black male.
ETYMOLOGY: After Golliwog, a character in books by Florence Upton (died 1922), American illustrator.

Some more info on the etymology of the word wog and offered by Oxford's

http://acadprojwww.wlu.edu/vol4/BlackmerH/public_html/xliberty/oed/wogcite.html

67 posted on 09/13/2003 1:27:00 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Prodigal Son
My favorite 'learned on FR' word is 'gobsmacked'.

I use it whenever I can.
68 posted on 09/13/2003 5:04:40 PM PDT by IncPen
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To: litany_of_lies
Well, that's one RINO Governor we know of that's against a CCW Bill. He said he was against it because the police associations were against it as usual. I understand the organization[OFCC?} that's working to pass the law is meeting with the Highway Patrol in a little while to straighten things out.
69 posted on 09/13/2003 7:29:03 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat.)
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To: IncPen
I agree completely with you. I just gave you another map that explains just that. The CCW support comes from the rural areas because those people are self reliant. The opposition is in the big cities because of a nanny state syndrome.

A nanny state disciple would never believe it was necessary to defend themselves.

70 posted on 09/13/2003 7:38:42 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat.)
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To: Shooter 2.5
Why pass up a perfectly good opportunity to use my 1911 for its intended, legal, moral, and ethical use?

Defense of others (whose lives are in immediate peril) justifies deadly force, at least in Indiana.

The only thing that would trouble me is that my beloved Kimber would rot in a police evidence locker for at least a decade, if not forever.

Is it wrong of me to think these things, rather than to fret over the life of the murderer-wannabe?

71 posted on 09/13/2003 8:13:37 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: Shooter 2.5
Thank you.
72 posted on 09/13/2003 8:18:17 PM PDT by IncPen
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To: Teacher317
Like Cooper said, there shouldn't be any handwringing or doubtful pauses. After a dirtbag is eliminated from the gene pool, the beer should taste better and the sky, bluer.

I still remember the morning I heard Ted Bundy was executed. The sun was just appearing over the trees and it was beautiful.
73 posted on 09/13/2003 8:47:02 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat.)
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To: Prodigal Son
I found this, unsourced, on the net:

All Personel, South East Asia Theater of War: Upon receipt and thereafter, you will cease refering to our allies as slopes, gooks, slants and yellow bastards and afford them the respect due to the worthy oriental gentlemen that they are.

Viscount Robert Mountbatten Commanding General South East Asia

While no etymologist I, it would seem from your research that Mountbatten was engaging in some particularly Churchillian word play.

Surprising, though, was your unfamiliarity with the term. Robert Ruark built two African novels on it; Uhuru and Something of Value. If you have not read either or both of these you, in particular, should not eat nor sleep until you have copies. It will be worth your while.

74 posted on 09/14/2003 12:47:29 AM PDT by MARTIAL MONK
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To: MARTIAL MONK
Surprising, though, was your unfamiliarity with the term.

Why was that surprising?

75 posted on 09/14/2003 1:04:34 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Rummyfan
But just about every Swede quoted in every news story seems mired in what National Review's Dave Kopel described, after 9/11, as "the culture of passivity".

Yeah, those passive Swedes. Why can't they be more like Americans?

76 posted on 09/14/2003 1:26:43 AM PDT by Penner
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To: Prodigal Son
While it's not a vocabulary staple in the U.S. I've heard it used in backwaters of Texas and Oklahoma. Places where a furriner is someone from the next county. Places where the last British influence left with Cornwallis. It may not have the same dark connotations that you seem to attach but it's more in line with the French bashing we've seen lately. Wogs and Frogs.
77 posted on 09/14/2003 1:53:11 AM PDT by MARTIAL MONK
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To: TopQuark; Howlin; riley1992; Miss Marple; deport; Dane; sinkspur; steve; kattracks; JohnHuang2; ...
Thanks!

Steyn ping.

78 posted on 09/14/2003 3:27:02 PM PDT by Pokey78 ("I'm not going to start the Third World War for you"- Gen. Sir Michael Jackson to Gen. Wesley Clark)
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To: Pokey78
thanks for the ping, another Steyn gem...
79 posted on 09/14/2003 3:56:18 PM PDT by RobFromGa (Sen. Joe McCarthy helped win our death-match against the USSR- Pass it on!)
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To: TopQuark
Like all brilliant sayings, it has that feel of the perennial, as if it must surely be hundreds of years old. But it isn't. It's as new as today's headline ... and Socrates.
80 posted on 09/14/2003 4:06:31 PM PDT by mrustow (no tag)
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To: MarkL
One name comes to mind... Kitty Genovese.

Mark

Right. But those people at least were ashamed. None of the Swedes experienced the least bit of shame.

81 posted on 09/14/2003 4:07:58 PM PDT by mrustow (no tag)
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To: Pokey78
Thanks Pokey.I was most disturbed by the passive onlookers.
82 posted on 09/14/2003 4:25:45 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: IncPen
Islamism is loose in Europe.

I have no idea who stabbed this woman, but I do know that a Norwegian friend and I share news stories from around Scandanavia. Many, many crimes that make it to the news seem to be perpetrated by Muslim immigrants to these countries. Amazingly, they are often let off w/light sentences because they 'don't understand the Nordic culture' - even if they've been in Norway or Sweden for 10 years!

Every country homebrews enough criminals. It would appear to me that the Nordic countries should seriously reconsider continuing to let in a group of people who seemed hell bent on crime and disruption.

83 posted on 09/14/2003 4:33:45 PM PDT by radiohead
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To: radiohead
The mental illness called liberalism does not recognize that it has embraced the seeds of mankind's destruction, under the guise of enlightenment.
84 posted on 09/14/2003 4:37:24 PM PDT by IncPen
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To: IncPen
Absolutely correct. Couldn't say it better.
85 posted on 09/14/2003 4:42:17 PM PDT by radiohead
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To: TopQuark
"To expect the government to save you is to be a bystander in your own fate."

Since noone else seems to have done it, I'm replacing my tagline with this.

L

86 posted on 09/14/2003 5:01:54 PM PDT by Lurker ("To expect the government to save you is to be a bystander in your own fate." Mark Steyn)
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Great article BTTT.
87 posted on 09/14/2003 5:27:52 PM PDT by Amelia (Very thankful for friends and family.)
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To: Rummyfan
But Anna Lindh would have thought that was just American cowboy talk, too raw, too primal to be of relevance in Europe.

I'll bet in the last seconds of her life, she regrets those thoughts, a nice American cowboy was just what she needed. Too bad the Swedes are testosterone deficient.

88 posted on 09/14/2003 5:57:58 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: Rummyfan
I don't see a description of the attacker, although he was witnessed by several.
89 posted on 09/14/2003 6:22:32 PM PDT by xJones
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To: sauropod
You'll like this.
90 posted on 09/14/2003 6:37:17 PM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: cateizgr8
Ping.
91 posted on 09/14/2003 8:38:47 PM PDT by Britton J Wingfield (TANSTAAFL)
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To: Prodigal Son
Which would bring us to golliwog: (again the American Heritage Dictionary) NOUN: A doll fashioned in grotesque caricature of a Black male. ETYMOLOGY: After Golliwog, a character in books by Florence Upton (died 1922), American illustrator.

One of the original Upton "Golliwogg" illustrations:

And one of the many subsequent incarnations of the craze:

As one source points out, the doll in the story was copied from blackface minstrel show costumes, making it a caricature of a caricature...

92 posted on 09/14/2003 9:10:43 PM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: Rummyfan
In France, where the death toll in the brutal Gallic summer is now up to 15,000, the attitude of Junior to the funny smell coming from grandma's apartment was the proverbial Gallic shrug and a demand that the government do something about it....

But Miss Lindh's killer didn't get away with it because of the people who weren't there, but because of the people who were: the bystanders. ...

This isn't an argument for guns, it's more basic than that: it's the difference between a citizen and a nanny-state baby.
Another Mark Styen treasure...

93 posted on 09/14/2003 9:15:48 PM PDT by Libertina ("Leaders" cannot lead me without my consent. I, citizen, have power.)
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To: Rummyfan
Dave Kopel described, after 9/11, as "the culture of passivity"

The best essay ever written on that topic, and the need for a personal dedication to self defense (and the defense of others), is A Nation of Cowards, by Jeffrey R. Snyder .

Mr. Snyder has turned oddly leftist in recent years, in a manner seemingly incompatible with his thoughts and tone in the linked essay, but the essay he wrote in 1993 is more relevant today than ever.

Excerpt:

For years, feminists have labored to educate people that rape is not about sex, but about domination, degradation, and control. Evidently, someone needs to inform the law enforcement establishment and the media that kidnapping, robbery, carjacking, and assault are not about property. Crime is not only a complete disavowal of the social contract, but also a commandeering of the victim's person and liberty. If the individual's dignity lies in the fact that he is a moral agent engaging in actions of his own will, in free exchange with others, then crime always violates the victim's dignity. It is, in fact, an act of enslavement. Your wallet, your purse, or your car may not be worth your life, but your dignity is; and if it is not worth fighting for, it can hardly be said to exist.

94 posted on 09/14/2003 9:21:30 PM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: MarkL
One name comes to mind... Kitty Genovese.

You might want to try reading this.

Excerpt: What follows is the 1964 New York Times article that first broke the Kitty Genovese story. It remains today the primary source of popular information about the case. However, as explained below, evidence from her killer's trial and other sources shows that the popular account of the murder is mostly wrong.

95 posted on 09/15/2003 8:20:05 AM PDT by Tares
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To: UnklGene
I wonder how long the body lay there before someone actually called the authorities. The attitude seems to be one Gallic (or in this case Swedish) shrug.

Steyne is truly one of the best.

vaudine
96 posted on 09/15/2003 8:37:16 AM PDT by vaudine
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To: infowarrior
The term is acually an acronym standing for "Westernized Oriental Gentleman", and dates from Victorian times...

Do you have a reputable source for that? I distrust any proffered etymologies that involve pre-Modern Era acronyms. I've seen apocryphal ones for "posh" and "shit" that supposedly predate the modern era which are undoubtedly false.

97 posted on 09/15/2003 2:11:30 PM PDT by stands2reason
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To: infowarrior
Feel free to disregard my previous post. The OED is quoted further down the thread.
98 posted on 09/15/2003 2:23:11 PM PDT by stands2reason
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To: LadyDoc
Sounds like an assassination, and not by a professional. SO yes, it does sound like it could be AlQuada or another nutso assassin who was poorly trained, not a random act of violence.

Well, I'm not saying it WASN'T Al Quada, but why would Islamists attack people who are on their side?????

99 posted on 09/18/2003 7:53:08 PM PDT by PLK
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