US Manufacturing's Steep Decline Calls for New Trade Policies

TradeAlert.org ^ | Thursday, September 11, 2003 | William R. Hawkins

[Willie Green]

JMO, Willie, you are having an exorcist type of moment, your head is spinning out of control.

Yep. No doubt about it.
I'm a thick-skinned, mean-spirited and judgemental conservative.
And I keep my pitchfork nice and sharp so I can jab hypocritical, double-talking, globalist neocons in the arse.

[Dane]

Yep. No doubt about it.
I'm a thick-skinned, mean-spirited and judgemental conservative.
And I keep my pitchfork nice and sharp so I can jab hypocritical, double-talking, globalist neocons in the arse

To bad that you don't direct that anger towards the real enemy, radical islamists.

[Willie Green]

To bad that you don't direct that anger towards the real enemy, radical islamists.

Al-Qaeda's attack on the WTC was intended to devastate the American Economy.
Ironicly, the Bush Administration's mismanagement of our domestic economy plays into their hand.

U.S. Officials Misread Economic Warfare

[11B3]

Hey Willie:

You and I have gone round and round on lots of threads. Your post has its' merits - and there are lots of structural changes that the last administration as well as this one SHOULD or SHOULD HAVE made. I agree with you on the 10-15% flat tariff. By the same token, the IRS should be dismantled and replaced with a flat tax as well. That way, we all pay - EQUALLY.

Conversely, I think that your vitriolic attacks on this administration are out of line. President Bush is forced into far more pragmatism than we as conservatives would like to see. We get frustrated by this, and forget that there is a reason for it. Try to keep that in mind before passing judgement.

[Tokhtamish]

Excessive government regulation has much to do with the offshoring of manufacturing.

Companies aren't free to dump waste into the drinking water or use child labor or create the emphysema levels of air quality that Chinese cities have. Chinese factory girls understand that they must sleep with the boss to keep their jobs. Liberal big government here interferes with the right of managerial droit de domain. Excessive government regulation forces American employers to occasionally give health insurance and unemployment insurance so the unemployed are not turned out on the street corners to beg like the mass of beggars in any Asian city.

[Willie Green]

President Bush is forced into far more pragmatism than we as conservatives would like to see. We get frustrated by this, and forget that there is a reason for it. Try to keep that in mind before passing judgement.

The man has a GOP controlled Congress to work with and hasn't bothered to use his veto power even once to try to curtail excessive government spending. His pathetic performance is deserving of far harsher condemnation than anything that I post on this forum.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Trade unions and other protectionists are the people advocating government interference in the economy.

THat's rich, considering that Business enjoys more "protectionism" than even illegal aliens. It's ok for business but BAAAAAAAAd when it's citizens?

Remember the part in the Constitution about "the common good?" I didn't think so. I suggest you read it along with the contributions of Alexander Hamilton so you'll understand why Free Trade is bad for us.

[jas3]

Japan is not doing well by any standard at all. Japan's financial sector is in shambles. The country has negative real interest rates, the first since before WW2. Every major bank in Japan is insolvent. The politicians are crooks and incomptent crooks at that.

I haven't heard anyone say that Japan is "doing quite well" in over a decade.

In fact, Japan is now the Italy of Asia. It is a sclerotic bankrupt shadow of its former self and will continue its decline for the foreseable future.

[jas3]

Then why stop at erecting trade barriers at the national level. We can really raise our standard of living by preventing trades between individual states...or for that matter by different counties within a single state.

If protectionism is the answer at the international level, then why won't it work at lower levels as well?

The answer is that trade benefits BOTH parties...whether local, intra-state, or international.

Hawkins doesn't debunk anything. He simply recites the same old drivel about the fictitious decline in American manufacturing capcity. There is no such decline. If you or he disagree....post your statistics, and I'll post mine.

[dr_who_2]

Guided by special interests,

All tariffs are "guided by special interests".

those tariffs were excessively high on some items

Pretty memorable, coming from the likes of you.

... and riddled with hundreds of loopholes and exemptions for others. Such inept polical bungling produced tariffs that are not only ineffective, but were also damaging to domestic industries in many instances.

Reminds me of those apologists for communism who thought that things would have been just great if Stalin hadn't screwed everything up.

[dr_who_2]

THat's rich, considering that Business enjoys more "protectionism" than even illegal aliens. It's ok for business but BAAAAAAAAd when it's citizens?

You mean it's wrong for a business to have a more favorable status in the US than an illegal alien? Many of these unions echo what the businesses are saying. Doesn't mean either one of them is right.

Remember the part in the Constitution about "the common good?" I didn't think so.

A quick keyword search through the US constitution for "common good" produces zero results. Protectionism favors one industry over another and has little to do with the "common good" to begin with. Nor does the constitution endorse regulation of businesses, much less as a way of preserving "sovereignity", I might add. Tariffs, which were a way of generating revenue for some and a way of protecting domestic industries for others, have always been good for launching trade wars that ultimately have pit one part of the country against the other.

I suggest you read it along with the contributions of Alexander Hamilton so you'll understand why Free Trade is bad for us.

And I suggest you truly read the constitution this time, along with contributions of the founding fathers who were not in Alexander Hamilton's clique.

[Willie Green]

All tariffs are "guided by special interests".

The only "special interest" served by a relatively low, flat-rate "revenue" tariff is that of Americans looking for the least oppressive form of taxation to provide funding of our Federal Government. James Madison made this assertion in proposing The First Federal Revenue Law. He also correctly pointed out that a single, uniform tariff was "consistent with the principles of free trade".

Pretty memorable, coming from the likes of you.
Reminds me of those apologists for communism who thought that things would have been just great if Stalin hadn't screwed everything up.

Void of substantive understanding of the political and economic implications of various modes of taxation, dr_who_2 further displays his ignorance by relying on less than subtle personal attacks and smear tactics. How boringly superficial you are.

[Willie Green]

And I suggest you truly read the constitution this time, along with contributions of the founding fathers who were not in Alexander Hamilton's clique.

And like I just posted, I suggest you read James Madison's statements regarding a single, uniform tariff.
Or do you think Madison was an apologist for Stalinist communism as well?

[fortaydoos]

How do unions and environmental laws explain the astonishing rate of job losses in hi tech?

Here's the answer: they have nothing to do with it. Currency manipulation by China and India explain why they have an APPARENT competetive advantage. No one can outwork an American worker given a fair playing field, and the administration is doing NOTHING to ensure that fair playing field.

[fortaydoos]

Why even try to reason with that free traitor clown? He has his talking points and decided long ago that he knows it all.

[fortaydoos]

The reason your "argument" is laughable is because Americans can and do move across state lines to work when the jobs move. Go back to community college in a few years and you will see that the economic paradigm will have shifted, and event the econ profs at local U. will recognize that one sided free trade and currency manipulation caused the Bush Depression.

[Dane]

Here's the answer: they have nothing to do with it. Currency manipulation by China and India explain why they have an APPARENT competetive advantage. No one can outwork an American worker given a fair playing field, and the administration is doing NOTHING to ensure that fair playing field

Blah, blah, blah, election year rhetoric form the demo coverts on FR.

BTW, your hero Clinton promised being tough on China and a "middle class tax cut" in the 92 campaign.

What did America get.

Military secrets being sold by the Clintons for campaign contributions to the Chicoms and a tax hike.

You all are so transparent.

[Willie Green]

Why even try to reason with that free traitor clown? He has his talking points and decided long ago that he knows it all.

I post my refutation of his malevolent propaganda for the benefit of others who may be reading the thread.
I have no expectation of converting those who post that trash. They are firmly committed to eradicating the security of our borders, and obliterating the wealth and peaceful prosperity of our Middle Class.

[Willie Green]

BTW, your hero Clinton promised being tough on China and a "middle class tax cut" in the 92 campaign.
What did America get.

America got a giant sucking sound called NAFTA.

Bush and Klinton are on the same wavelength when it comes to assaulting the prosperity of the American Middle Class. They may be doing it to achieve different goals, but the methods and results are the same.