US Manufacturing's Steep Decline Calls for New Trade Policies

TradeAlert.org ^ | Thursday, September 11, 2003 | William R. Hawkins

[ninenot]

Actually, John, Japan's problems are not going away--they have no children over there.

The growth of economies, at the most macro-level, depends on the presence of consumers--and if you got no kids, you don't got no consumers--either now or in the future.

That's why the Japanese banks are stuffed with deposits and nobody over there is buying anything.

[ninenot]

Huh, I guess Ronald Reagan was just as hypocritical for imposing the same type of tariffs.

Besides the Harley-Davidson tariffs, please advise the others...

[ninenot]

To bad that you don't direct that anger towards the real enemy, radical islamists

He is a blind fool who only sees one enemy at a time.

Without being too pointed about your post--has the ChiCom gummint withdrawn all its positions about America being "the enemy?"

Or are they fooling you as well as they are fooling the rummies in Commerce and State?

[ninenot]

Trade unions and other protectionists are the people advocating government interference in the economy.

You don't suppose that GE, the Big Three, Halliburton, and Bechtel (among others too numerous to mention) had anything to do with Ex-Im, or the various US-taxpayer guaranteed "Development Banks", do you?

Ohhhhh, NOOOOoooooo.

[ninenot]

The answer is that trade benefits BOTH parties

Not THIS trade.

The nation that loses its self-sufficiency is NOT "benefitted"

[A. Pole]

The answer is that trade benefits BOTH parties

Not THIS trade.

He meant "both" Chicoms and corporations.

[JohnSmithee]

"Japan is not doing well by any standard at all."

ROFL.

Are you trolling or trying to be serious?

Look up Japan's rankings in terms of GDP/capita, debt, average household income, amount of exports, ...

All ranked some of the best in the world.

[JohnSmithee]

"Actually, John, Japan's problems are not going away--they have no children over there."

No doubt. I am not trying to argue that Japan will not continue to slide, both in economic terms and standard of life rankings. I was only pointing out a country that enacted trade barriers and still had strong economic growth and success. This was certainly true up until the early 90's.

[FITZ]

Reminds me of those apologists for communism who thought that things would have been just great if Stalin hadn't screwed everything up.

Obviously free traders are big believers in Communism or they wouldn't be going over to China signing all the free trade agreements that ruins the American economy but rewards the Communists.

[FITZ]

To bad that you don't direct that anger towards the real enemy, radical islamists.

Communists are still our enemies even if Bush and Clinton decided to turn over our economy to them. Just because Communist governments can provide us the cheapest labor in the world never made them true allies.

[Iscool]

He simply recites the same old drivel about the fictitious decline in American manufacturing capcity. There is no such decline. If you or he disagree....post your statistics, and I'll post mine.

As we all know, numbers can be manipulated to mean anything you want them to...Give it the real test...Check the numbers at the unemployment and welfare offices...Check the rescue missions...

Then why stop at erecting trade barriers at the national level. We can really raise our standard of living by preventing trades between individual states...or for that matter by different counties within a single state.

As recently as the 50's and 60's, we still had States' Rights...And Counties's rights as well as local rights...IF the police were chasing you for speeding, they had to stop the pursuit at the county line, for example...

And to answer your question, we don't require trade barriers within the US while trading American made goods...Obviously, you wouldn't be in business very long if you sold your products for less than what it costs to produce them...In the US, they used to call it competition...

When the multi-national corporate terrorists attack this country, they don't offer their chinese and mexican made products at half price or less even tho they could still make huge profits at those prices...Instead, they price their junk just below what it costs Americans to produce those things...The consumers get a little bit of a break and it puts American business OUT of business...

Wal-mart sells at about 15% lower than the competition...I suspect people don't even realize how much we get from China...Even you...Yesterday I bought a rotor for my daughter's car...Only one brand available at the parts store...Made in China...On the way home, I wondered what the folks were doing that used to make those parts here in America...

[ninenot]

I wondered what the folks were doing that used to make those parts here in America...

Driving a school bus--or maybe a tour bus to the Indian casinos.

[jas3]

I'm completely serious. Japan has the highest nation debt as a percentage of GDP of any industrialized nation. The country is on track to default this decade.

The joke on the street is what's the difference between Japan and Argentina.....Answer: about 3 years.

Japan's national credit rating has been unstable for years and continues to fall.

The Japanese equity markets have fallen by 75% and are still overvalued.

Japan is an economic disaster.

[jas3]

I'm an American, and I do move across state lines to work. I also move across national lines to work. I spend about 3 months a year working in Europe.

By definition if trade is free trade...then it isn't one-sided.

No need to insult me by suggesting I go back to community college. I've found that if you really want to engage in debate, we've both more likely to learn from each other if we can both refrain from personal insults.

In general, my experience has been that those who are quick with the ad hominem attacks have the weakest arguments.

Regards.

[jas3]

The US has a balance of payments deficit in imports because it buys more imports than it sells in exports.

Assume that in year N, manufactured imports and exports are equal. Then in year N+1, imports double. Domestic manufacturing is then NOT in decline, despite the large balance of payments deficit.

If manufacturing were in decline in the US (as opposed to manufacturing employment) then it would be declining in dollars of output and as a percentage of GDP.

In fact, manufacturing is NOT delining as a percentage of GDP nor in gross nominal dollars.

[jas3]

I've noticed that Manhattan imports FAR more than it exports. It has a horrible manufacturing balance of trade. Therefore, for the good of the borough, would it make sense to erect trade barriers with all non-Manhattan entities?

[jas3]

That's an intersting concept, but never in it's history has the US has been self-sufficient.

From the French war ships critical to victory in the War of Independence to the imported oil on which the US economy is currently dependent, the US has always been dependent on others for it's security and economic well being.

Do you think we should stop importing oil so we can be self-sufficient? What about steel?

[jas3]

The numbers at the unemployment office, welfare office, and rescue mission may (or may not, but I suspect do) reflect a fall in manufacturing employment. But that is far different from proving a decline in manufacturing.

"Multi-national corporate terrorist"? I don't understand. You mean like Nestle the food products company? Or Shell the energy firm? Or Nike the sportswear company? What is a multi-national corporate terrorist?

If you looked up how much we got from China, you would be shocked to see how little it is. Our #1 trading partner is Canada.

Quoted from the article linked below:
"Efforts to stir up "public agitation" about China are based on lies. China accounts for only 18 percent of our imports of merchandise. Chinese imports seem bigger because they are concentrated in clothing and consumer goods, which are far more visible than more costly industrial supplies and equipment. Apparel accounts for only about 6 percent of U.S. imports, industrial supplies and equipment for 55 percent. Major industrial countries supply almost 48 percent of U.S. imports of manufactured goods, while all newly industrialized Asian countries account for 9.3 percent."

Who knows what those folks were doing who used to make that rotor in the US are doing now. The nice thing about capitalism is that they have moved on to something else, hopefully in an industry where they could be more productive.

Here's a nice article from the Washington Times that Cato posted for your review.

http://www.cato.org/research/articles/reynolds-030831.html

[jas3]

I'm talking about spending money to retrain displaced workers rather than erecting trade barriers.

[A. Pole]

I'm talking about spending money to retrain displaced workers rather than erecting trade barriers.

So they program in Java?