GI In Iraq Looses Foot To Grenade, Government Bills Him For Hospital Food

St. Petersburg (FL) Times ^ | September 11, 2003 | Bill Adair

[RangerHobbit]

Food bills called insult to GIs' injury:[SOUTH PINELLAS Edition]

BILL ADAIR. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Sep 11, 2003. pg. 1.A

Abstract (Article Summary)

After a grenade exploded inside his Humvee in Iraq, Marine Staff Sgt. Bill Murwin was treated at a military hospital in Germany and spent four weeks at the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Md. Part of his left foot was amputated.

Murwin, like thousands of other military personnel hospitalized every year, is expected to reimburse the government $8.10 per day for food. That's standard procedure because of a law Congress passed in 1981. But it has angered many military families over the years.

Murwin concurred, but said his taste buds had been dulled by weeks of eating field chow - called MREs (for Meal, Ready to Eat) - in Iraq.

Full Text (699 words) Copyright Times Publishing Co. Sep 11, 2003

After a grenade exploded inside his Humvee in Iraq, Marine Staff Sgt. Bill Murwin was treated at a military hospital in Germany and spent four weeks at the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Md. Part of his left foot was amputated.

His medical care was free, but the government billed him $243 for the food.

Then, just three days after he received his first bill for the hospital food in Germany, he got a stern letter saying the bill was overdue. It warned that his account would be referred to a collection agency.

Murwin, like thousands of other military personnel hospitalized every year, is expected to reimburse the government $8.10 per day for food. That's standard procedure because of a law Congress passed in 1981. But it has angered many military families over the years.

When Rep. C.W. Bill Young, R-Largo, and his wife, Beverly, heard about the problem, they personally paid Murwin's tab. Then the congressman introduced a bill to change the rules.

Rep. Young said Wednesday that the soldiers "were sent to war by their country. Many of them will be handicapped for the rest of their lives - and we're asking them to pay $8.10 a day for their food! There's something really wrong with that."

The practice is especially egregious, Young said, because "the food probably isn't that good."

The rule was established because most military personnel receive $8.10 a day as a "basic allowance for subsistence" for food. But when they are hospitalized, the government tries to recoup the money on the theory that they are eating hospital food and therefore are double-dipping.

Military officials have long disliked the rule but felt they had to enforce it because of the 1981 law.

"If I could be king for a day, I'd stop it in a minute," said Maj. Gen. Kevin C. Kiley, who commands the Army hospitals in the eastern United States.

The government already bends the rules for soldiers in combat. They are allowed keep the $8.10 even though they are also getting free food, according to Young's office.

Murwin, 31, a sheriff's deputy in Nevada with 10 years of active duty in the Marines and three years in the Reserves, says he was flabbergasted the government would bill him.

"Holy smokes," he said. "I'm in the hospital - and they're going to charge me for my food?"

He says he was willing to pay but thinks it's unfair that young soldiers get billed.

"What made me so hot is that (it applies to) privates and lance corporals - guys who barely make enough money to pay for their own food, let alone take care of this," Murwin said.

Kiley, the Army medical commander, said the costs can add up. "If you're here for a couple of months, you could rack up a thousand dollars," he said.

Young, chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, said he was unaware of the law until his wife heard about it from Murwin's father-in-law. He has quickly lined up support for his bill, which would reverse the rule so military personnel do not have to pay.

His staff hasn't had time to estimate the cost of the bill, Young said, but the government has an obligation to pay for the food of injured soldiers.

The bill has 96 co-sponsors and has been endorsed by associations that represent enlisted personnel. Because of the strong support, the bill is likely to sail through Congress in the next few weeks.

Kiley said that he is glad to see the bill and that it has wide support in the military. But he disagrees with Young's unfavorable assessment of the hospital cuisine.

"It really is pretty good food," Kiley said. "It's not the same as a four-star restaurant. But we work pretty hard at it."

Murwin concurred, but said his taste buds had been dulled by weeks of eating field chow - called MREs (for Meal, Ready to Eat) - in Iraq.

"I was expecting the worst" from the hospital food, he said. "I was pleasantly surprised. I actually got a steak dinner one night."

- Bill Adair can be reached at (202) 463-0575 or adair@sptimes.com.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Um excuse me.. this law was passed when the Democrats were in charge. I do believe. This story is being presented to make Republican look heartless, as it is all over the liberal web sites. Now we find out it was a Democratic congress that passed the law in the first place. Nice......

[demkicker]

I don't believe I just read that. It's a wonder anyone wants to serve their country anymore. Their pay is so pathetic, many are on food stamps and now we learn they're charged for food in the hospital after being injured in combat? I'm horrified and disgusted.

[jocon307]

"The practice is especially egregious, Young said, because "the food probably isn't that good."

He's probably right, I like this fellow, he sounds very sensible.

When I had my baby I was happy to be going to a Jewish hospital, I had some hope that the food, being Kosher, would be better than most hospital food. While there I realized that this must be the same food you get in an Israeli prison!

When my mother was in Sloan-Kettering (supposedly one of the world's finest cancer hospitals) with cancer of the esophogus they gave her pork chops to eat.

The nutrional and culinary failure of hospitals is a sore point with me.

[Lauratealeaf]

You might want to correct the headline. Looses foot is different from Loses foot. When my husband was in the military hospital in Heidelberg last year we were also billed for his food, even though he was too sick to eat it. That is just the way the defense department has been handling the billing since during the Clinton administration. Been going on a long time.

[blam]

Meanwhile, congress gives themselves a raise.

[wku man]

Young is my Congresscritter, and is gnerally a worthless RINO who's lukewarm to the 2d Amendment and other conservative issues. Glad to see he's finally doing something worthwhile.

Scouts out! Cavalry Ho!

[eastforker]

Someone correct me if I am wrong,when I was in the army 30 years ago,one had the choice of either eating army chow for free or getting extra money for seperate rations.If you received the extra money allowance you had to pay in the mees hall for your food.In other words,if the guy was receiving extra money for subsistance I can understand him being charged for his food.

[LenS]

Since the rule's been around since 1981, the Dems can't take the full blame. Reagan would have been President and the Senate was under Republican control.

Of course, isn't this meal cost really just a deduction from a soldier's meal allowance in essence?

[The Chief]

What I would like to know is who was the author of the bill in 1981 that placed this cost upon our injured soldiers....

[RangerHobbit]

"You might want to correct the headline"

Sorry about the typo. I was steaming mad when I posted this. But hey, this kind of thing is nothing new. I was wounded five times in Vietnam, have undergone as many surgeries since (including an artificial knee replacement in 1992) for a gunshot wound to my left leg. I guess I've spent a cumulative total of nearly 2 years in hospital beds resulting from my war wounds.

Yet when I tried to see a doctor at a VA hospital in Nebraska while driving back to California from a reunion in 2000, I was told it'd be five months before I could get an appointment. I had to see a private physician because my leg was killing me. It took 8 months to get reimbursed by the government. They wanted to make sure the chunk of Chicom RPG grenade working its way to the surface of my leg was a "service connected" injury.

The reason this story REALLY PISSES ME OFF, is because civilian victims or their survivors of 9/11 are still bitching and fighting about the fact that $1.4 million or $3.3 million "isn't enough" compensation, while other bureaucratic victims or their survivors of 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing are realizing about $1 million each in compensation, and even all the personnel of our bombed embassies are suing and winning millions of dollars, while our GIs lose limbs, are billed for their hospital food, and are otherwise told to go to hell after the smoke settles in whatever police action we're involved in that decade.

Is this country worth defending?

[Mears]

This is news to me.

What do they charge the inmates of the federal prisons for food?

[RangerHobbit]

"Someone correct me if I am wrong"

That per-diem should apply to noncombat zones only. When I was shot the first time I couldn't eat for two weeks. They fed me with an IV tube. What if today's rules applied back then? What if I'd died? Would they have billed my mother for the IV food? Let's get a grip on reality here! We're talking about casualties from a WAR ZONE! We're talking about COMBAT CASUALTIES being billed for hospital food after they've suffered catastrophic injury defending our right to post our opinions in this web forum!

[jwalsh07]

You're right here Dude. The clock shouldn't stop on Combat Bennies until the troop sets his boots back on American soil.

Stupid rule. You want to know how stupid? Assuming a million troops if every one of them spent 100 days in the hospital due to combat injuries, the bill to Uncle is 800, million.

That's rounding error in their budget.

I can understand deducting SepRats from the check when you're stateside in the field but this is stupidity no matter how you look at it. Publicity wise, common sense wise, morale wise or penny wise pound foolish.

[RangerHobbit]

"What do they charge the inmates of the federal prisons for food?"

I sit in my RV on South Beach in Crescent City, California, about 8 miles south of Pelican Bay, one of the most notorious penitentiaries in America, where this state warehouses four thousand of the worst criminals on the planet. The inmates pay nothing for food. You pay for it. The prison's budget this year was just shy of $100 million.

[Publius6961]

Um excuse me.. this law was passed when the Democrats were in charge. I do believe.

1981?
You may be right, but I would wonder why Reagan didn't veto it for that reason alone.

[eastforker]

So,if you didn't elect to receive the subsistance allowance,then while in the hospital,you would not have been charged for the food right.You sound kind of bitter to me for some reason,many serve their country and never bitch about it,some even give their life,tell me,were you drafted or did you volunteer for vietnam?If you were drafted I can understand why you think this way but many volunteer and never whimper.

[Lauratealeaf]

The reason this story REALLY PISSES ME OFF, is because civilian victims or their survivors of 9/11 are still bitching and fighting about the fact that $1.4 million or $3.3 million "isn't enough" compensation, while other bureaucratic victims or their survivors of 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing are realizing about $1 million each in compensation, and even all the personnel of our bombed embassies are suing and winning millions of dollars, while our GIs lose limbs, are billed for their hospital food, and are otherwise told to go to hell after the smoke settles in whatever police action we're involved in that decade.

Is this country worth defending?

My brother has to go to the VA hospital here in Arkansas due to on-going problems from an injury during the Gulf War and seems to be able to be seen in a more timely manner. Still, I agree, the medical care promised to the military (my husband has been serving for almost thirty years) has degenerated to the point that my husband is looking forward to retirement and being able to use my own teacher medical insurance program. Of course this country is worth defending.

[RangerHobbit]

If there are any other Vietnam Veterans here, you may remember when the military started making us sign in each time we ate at a mess hall. This practice was started at the suggestion of a lowly private who dropped the idea in one of the "zero defects" suggestion boxes that were all the rage in the late 60's and early 70's on military bases.

He saved the military millions of dollars with his idea, because corruption amongst supply and mess hall staff became much more difficult when food started being allocated to individual mess halls based on the number of people who actually signed in to eat there, as opposed to the old system which was rife with graft, one in which mess sergeants requested and got twice as much food as they actually used, the remainder they'd sell off out the side door to off-base vendors who'd turn around and sell it back to the military.

That's how all this got started.

[Mears]

Sure,we'll feed the vicious but the poor slobs who are out to defend are charged for food when injured on duty!

Insanity!!!!!

[Diva Betsy Ross]

I don't know. That is a good question. I am suspicious of the timing of this article though. I think it is arong.. I think it has more to do with making look Bush look bad than anything else.

[RangerHobbit]

"Of course this country is worth defending."

Mine was an anecdotal muse. I feel the same way as I'm sure you can appreciate.

On the GOOD NEWS front, I heard from one of my Vietnam buddies last week, a poor misguided soul who fell from a helicopter flying at 5000 ft. over the A Shau Valley, landing in a boulder outcrop squarely on his head, or at least that's our theory since he's remained a Democrat his entire life, a former state congressman no less.

He tells me the DNC is frantic over damage control issues springing from the fact that Dems of late have been as scarce as hen's teeth when it comes to picking up a rifle and defending all the rights the ACLU thinks our Attorney General is taking away from them. Leftists think all of our freedoms just fell out of the sky. They haven't a clue about the enormous bill that came along with them.

[verity]

I'm horrified and disgusted.

You are simply uninformed about existing law.

[RangerHobbit]

"You sound kind of bitter to me for some reason,many serve their country and never bitch about it,some even give their life"

What's your own war record?

[RangerHobbit]

"You are simply uninformed about existing law."

So when demkicker says he's "horrified and disgusted" over an existing law, the fact that those laws exist isn't grounds to be upset?

[Kadric]

When I was in I had to go in the hospital for an operation, while in the hospital I received BAS. I was charged an equal amount by the hospital for food. This was in 83. If they are charging more than they are paying him then it is not right but if he is receiving BAS while in the hospital that equals what the hospital is charging then I don't see the problem. The theory in place at the time was that since I was not able to use the chow hall that I was entitled to that amount, since I was being paid separately to provide my own food then I should pay the hospital.

[lawdude]

"What do they charge the inmates of the federal prisons for food?"

Don't know about fed. prisons but Sheriff Joe in Maricopa County, AZ charges $100 for the first day in jail, and 30+ for subsequent time. Judges can waive on showing of inabiity to pay. After all, you can't get blood out of a turnip.

BTW, You don't want to hear about the food!

[RangerHobbit]

"When I was in I had to go in the hospital for an operation, while in the hospital I received BAS. I was charged an equal amount by the hospital for food. This was in 83. If they are charging more than they are paying him then it is not right but if he is receiving BAS while in the hospital that equals what the hospital is charging then I don't see the problem. The theory in place at the time was that since I was not able to use the chow hall that I was entitled to that amount, since I was being paid separately to provide my own food then I should pay the hospital."

Pray tell, was this a combat wound? Was that the reason for your operation? Suppose you'd been shot in the gut and required 2 bottles of Ringer's or some other nutritional IV supplement at about $350 a pop; should the military bill you $700 a day for "food"?

[Lauratealeaf]

He tells me the DNC is frantic over damage control issues springing from the fact that Dems of late have been as scarce as hen's teeth when it comes to picking up a rifle and defending all the rights the ACLU thinks our Attorney General is taking away from them. Leftists think all of our freedoms just fell out of the sky. They haven't a clue about the enormous bill that came along with them.

Well, it is nice that you keep that line of communication going with your poor injured buddy. Interesting how they can't seem to realize that the soldiers defending this country deserve the best medical care in the world when they are injured or sick. They are more interested in their so-called freedoms. But not in how those freedoms are defended.

[mrsmith]

"was this a combat wound? "

What, you don't want combat wounded to receive per diem while in hospital?
Do you think that their family should camp outside the hospital and beg from passers-by for food to feed the soldier?

Gee, this is a stupid thread.
The per-diem is taken back because the food is provided.

[Kadric]

No it was not a Combat wound. I do not see where that truly makes a difference. As for needing special dietary supplements that does not fall under the normal subsistence, and yes I do know of a Vet that due to a line of duty illness was put on a special diet for which he received extra pay above BAS to pay for these needs. I will say this should have been handled differently but it just seems that we are only hearing the point that he was charged for the food. As I pointed out he was more than likely paid extra to supply his own food. It seemed stupid to me at the time and still does. It would seem easier if the Hospital just submitted a payment request to Finance and they took care of it with out involving the service member.

[FreedomCalls]

I explained the situation 50 times over in this thread.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/980928/posts

Each person in the military receives $8.10 tax free a day for food. If the government provides three free hot meals a day, then you have to forfeit the $8.10 a day as that money is to be used solely to purchase food. In this case the soldier is being billed $8.10 a day -- not one penny more than what he received in funds explicitly given to him for the sole purpose of purchasing food. The government gives him free food while he is in the hospital, it's just that instead of giving the money for the food directly to the hospital they give it to the soldier and trust him to reimburse the hospital when he checks out. What's wrong with that? Do you not trust the soldier to pass the money on to the hospital instead of pocketing it?

[Kadric]

I believe that his remark was pointed at me.

[FreedomCalls]

It would seem easier if the Hospital just submitted a payment request to Finance and they took care of it with out involving the service member.

You don't trust all service members to handle their own money simply because one pocketed the money (given to him for the sole purpose of purchasing food) instead of paying his bill?

[mrsmith]

Hopefuly he's just over-excited and his fervor is temporarily interfering with his reason.

I wouldn't mind giving this to troops as a pay-raise.
Married non-coms, especially, are on a very tight budget.

[Kadric]

As I stated it seemed stupid to me at the time and still does. instead of the hospital just submitting a form saying I was in their care for the time. I had to pay the hospital then submit the forms for BAS for the time I was in the hospital. It just seemed simpler to me for the hospital submit the paper work directly. It has nothing to do with a matter of trust just reduced running on my part.

[Kadric]

One problem of giving it as a pay raise would be that they wou;ld end up with less. As BAS it is not subject to taxes as a payraise it would be.

[CheneyChick]

In other words,if the guy was receiving extra money for subsistance I can understand him being charged for his food.

That's the way I read it, too.

"The rule was established because most military personnel receive $8.10 a day as a "basic allowance for subsistence" for food. But when they are hospitalized, the government tries to recoup the money on the theory that they are eating hospital food and therefore are double-dipping."

Maybe he needs someone to explain his LES to him.

[lepton]

most military personnel receive $8.10 a day as a "basic allowance for subsistence" for food. But when they are hospitalized, the government tries to recoup the money on the theory that they are eating hospital food

This is why. He is being asked simpy to return the money he gets to pay for food above and beyond his pay. Entirely reasonable. The only unreasonable part is that they are submitting it so a collection agency rather than just deducting it from his future allowance.

[lepton]

Of course, isn't this meal cost really just a deduction from a soldier's meal allowance in essence?

According to the article, that's precisely what it is.

[lepton]

What do they charge the inmates of the federal prisons for food?

They don't give inmates meal allowances to pay for the food.

[lepton]

Sure,we'll feed the vicious but the poor slobs who are out to defend are charged for food when injured on duty!

No, he's not. He's being told they aren't going to pay for food that he's getting for free.

[lepton]

So when demkicker says he's "horrified and disgusted" over an existing law, the fact that those laws exist isn't grounds to be upset??

Not this one.

[RangerHobbit]

"What, you don't want combat wounded to receive per diem while in hospital?"

I love people who jump in middle thread and haven't a clue of the continuity at hand.

Look everybody, here's my point: WAR IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME. These idiotic per-diem rules have absolutely no business carrying over into a combat theater. Lots of other military rules change during time of war, believe me. Honest to God, some of you sound like bureaucratic bean keepers who think a combat zone is some game on your hard drive. At this point in the thread I wish each and every one of you arguing the idiotic merits per-diem food allowances as they apply to COMBAT WOUNDED -those of you who just don't GET IT, had been shot several times yourselves, then maybe you'd have a clue!

[lepton]

Suppose you'd been shot in the gut and required 2 bottles of Ringer's or some other nutritional IV supplement at about $350 a pop; should the military bill you $700 a day for "food"?

Are you of the rather bizzarre understanding that $8.10 is the cost to the hospital for feeding the guy? The guy gets $8.10 a day towards food regardless of how much he eats. No matter how much he eats in the hospital, he has to forfeit the $8.10 a day.

[lepton]

If you want to argue that soldiers should be better taken care of, and perhaps generally compensated better (especially when they are in war-zones, or directly in combat), those are viable arguments. Arguing that they should get to keep per-deim allowances while being fed is simply ridiculous.

[mrsmith]

And I love people who are overcome by their fervor.

They liven FR up, even if they aren't sensible.

[RangerHobbit]

"Arguing that they should get to keep per-deim allowances while being fed is simply ridiculous."

Your syntax treats our wounded GIs as though they were livestock animals. Tell you what. Why don't you go to Iraq, get your throat blown out, spend a year in a military hospital, then get back to me with your thinking on the pro/con merits of per-diem food allowances in a war zone. OK?

[FreedomCalls]

WAR IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME. These idiotic per-diem rules have absolutely no business carrying over into a combat theater. ... a combat zone ...

From the article: "Bill Murwin was treated at a military hospital in Germany and spent four weeks at the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Md."

Neither of those places is a "combat zone" nor are they located in a "combat theater."

[RangerHobbit]

"even if they aren't sensible"

It comes with being shot at (and hit on occasion) for the better part of two years. Believe me, I make perfect sence to those sharing my experience, one I honestly wouldn't wish on anyone else in this string in spite of my dialectic argument here today.

What really upsets me though, is the absolute lack of empathy in so many people, like those who think this article is some kind of plot against the President rather than a story about a wounded GI! Good grief!