Embodiment of Evil: Osama bin Laden (A must-read! Explains why we Westerners are in dire peril!)

The Chicago Tribune ^ | September 14, 2003 | Geneive Abdo

[quidnunc]

Where a person stands determines how Osama bin Laden is viewed. In the West, he is seen as the murderous terrorist and force behind the Sept. 11 attacks. From the East, he is viewed as a holy leader and protector against Western influences, particularly those of the United States, that threaten religious salvation promised by Islam.

[quidnunc]

Quote:

But to cast bin Laden in such narrow terms is to dismiss his profound standing among some of the world's 1.2 billion Muslims and to overlook his rightful place in Islamic history. Where the West sees him as a mad-dog terrorist, many of his Muslim partisans regard him as the latest in a long tradition of radical Islamic thinkers and revolutionary leaders, all of whom advocated violence in pursuit of their own vision of a united, worldwide umma, or community of believers.

They also see him as a rational response to unwanted American meddling in the affairs of their community, in particular Washington's loyal support for leaders, from Morocco to Egypt and the Persian Gulf, who are almost universally seen by their own citizens as corrupt and illegitimate in religious terms.

In other words, the world's only superpower has emerged in the eyes of millions of Muslims as a direct threat to their pursuit of religious salvation. Seen from the East, the horrific attacks of Sept. 11 look more like collateral damage in a time-honored domestic struggle than the first major shots of worldwide religious warfare.

We may not consider ourselves to be at war with Islam. but a significant portion if Islam is at war to the death with us.

This is, indeed, Samuel Huntington's clash of civilizations.

[tkathy]

Not a few thousand but hundreds of millions wish death to us.

[RLK]

Muslim partisans regard him as the latest in a long tradition of radical Islamic thinkers and revolutionary leaders, all of whom advocated violence in pursuit of their own vision of a united, worldwide umma, or community of believers.

-----------------------

Radical Islamic thinkers only by non-mohammedan standards. Mohammed, himself led what are euphemistically called 28 military campaigns in which he slaughtered anyone who disagreed with Islam. This is the Islamic model which is to be followed and which is not to be altered according to the commandments of the Koran.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

In Iran, where Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini established an Islamic state ideology fueled by anti-American passion, the clerics he left behind are locked in a religious struggle over the "true" interpretation of their faith.

Bin Laden has so far succeeded where Khomeini failed: He has exported his revolutionary ideas across the Islamic world. While that was Khomeini's dream, his radical reading of the faith never penetrated much beyond south Lebanon and other areas dominated by fellow members of his minority Shiite sect.

Roots in seminaries

Although newspaper headlines often characterize the struggle in Iran as a tug of war between political conservatives and "reformers," in fact the root cause of the instability plaguing the country lies within the confines of the seminaries in the holy Shiite city of Qom. As with bin Laden, the West's refusal to appreciate Iran's national struggle in religious terms has deprived it of the full picture.

Progressive theologians who advocate reducing the clergy's role in running Iran are locked in a battle with hard-line ayatollahs who have enforced a rigid religious interpretation to advance their political agenda. As one leading hard-line cleric put it several years ago in a sermon at Tehran's Friday prayers: "If someone tells you he has a different interpretation of Islam, sock him in the mouth."

By politicizing religion, as the hard-line ayatollahs have done in Iran, Muslim leaders rely heavily on the powerful tug of traditionalism. One tool is to enforce Islamic law, or Shariah, through modern institutions. Holy writ is invoked to justify and support social or legal proscriptions, such as the veiling of women or the prohibition against a wife divorcing her husband, that may have lost their luster in modern times.

[Little Ray]

You are absoulutely correct, but there are over a BILLION Muslims and most want to be left alone. "Millions" wanting us dead could easily be less than one percent.
Unfortunately for them, ignoring terrorists operating in their ...tribal lands (can't really call most Muslim nations "nations" can we?) means that we may to come calling; which will mean friction and probably conflict with folks we could otherwise ignore. What a mess.

[TheCrusader]

"Not a few thousand but hundreds of millions wish death to us."

The scariest thing about this reality is that even our President has constantly referred to Islam as "the religion of peace". How this silly and dangerously deceptive slogan came into being I will never understand. Perhaps people of good will can be naive. Collective Islam has never been peaceful and docile as a religion or as a way of life. Invasion, murder and oppression have followed Islam's every step throughout it's bizarre history. We should know that 'Islam' and 'peace' are completely incongruent with one another.

[quidnunc]

Little Ray wrote: You are absoulutely correct, but there are over a BILLION Muslims and most want to be left alone. "Millions" wanting us dead could easily be less than one percent. Unfortunately for them, ignoring terrorists operating in their ...tribal lands (can't really call most Muslim nations "nations" can we?) means that we may to come calling; which will mean friction and probably conflict with folks we could otherwise ignore. What a mess.

The people who are informed on the subject — such as Daniel Pipes — say that 10%-15% of Muslims are either militant Islamists or their supporters.

That amounts to at least 125,000,000 to 180,000,000 people who yearn for the demise of the West — in other words, us.

That may be an underestimation.

In Turkey, a secular country with free elections, the Islamist parties normally garner 30%-40% of the vote.

[Porterville]

So it is a religious war, what else is new.... let's just call it what it is and get on with it already.... that's right, we are, and we haven't had to be too heavy handed in our rhetoric...yet.... maybe in the future.

[.cnI redruM]

Belloc had a quote that sums it up. "In times of comfort and plenty we are amused by the barbarian and refreshed by his comic inversion of our everyday certitutudes. But beyond our walls are large and awful faces and on those faces there are no smiles."

Wanna' bet Osauma watched for at least 15 years before 9-11 and never grinned even once?

[TheCrusader]

"You are absoulutely correct, but there are over a BILLION Muslims and most want to be left alone. "Millions" wanting us dead could easily be less than one percent."

I strongly disagree with this statement. The bizarre religion of Islam actually inculcates its followers with a mentality of intolerance of other faiths, and a hatred for Jews and Christians. This hateful and paranoid mentality surely mandates that Islamic theocracies must be ruled by tyrants and oppressors. Islam is a religion of hate.

They are at war or civil unrest wherever Islam exists; Afghanistan, Pakistan, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Israel/Palestine, Somalia, the Sudan, Rwanda, and now even in the mostly Catholic Philippines where Muslim terrorists are demanding their own state.

And in those very few Islamic nations where there is no warfare or open civil unrest, they are ruled by the iron hands of greedy 'Princes' or theocratic bullies.

[Consort]

Being in dire peril opens up many options that otherwise might not be considered.

[Happy2BMe]

"Not a few thousand but hundreds of millions wish death to us."

---

FROM JOSEPH FARAH'S G2 BULLETIN
Radical Islam's 'plan'
to take over America
Arab-American author outlines secret
20-year strategy to undermine country

---

Posted: August 4, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

Editor's note: Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin is an online, subscription intelligence news service from the creator of WorldNetDaily.com – a journalist who has been developing sources around the world for the last 25 years.

© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

A refugee from the Muslim Middle East thinks he has discovered Islam's 20-point plan for conquering the United States by 2020 – a plan revealed in the latest issue of Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin.

Anis Shorrosh, author of ''Islam Revealed'' and ''The True Furqan,'' is a Christian Arab-American who emigrated from Arab-controlled Jerusalem in January 1967.

''The following is my analysis of Islamic invasion of America, the agenda of Islamists and visible methods to take over America by the year 2020,'' Shorrosh says. ''Will Americans continue to sleep through this invasion as they did when we were attacked on 9/11?''

1. Terminate America's freedom of speech by replacing it with statewide and nationwide hate-crime bills.

2. Wage a war of words using black leaders like Louis Farrakhan, Rev. Jesse Jackson and other visible religious personalities who promote Islam as the religion of African-Americans while insisting Christianity is for whites only. What they fail to tell African-Americans is that it was Arab Muslims who captured them and sold them as slaves. In fact, the Arabic word for black and slave is the same, ''Abed.''

3. Engage the American public in dialogues, discussions, debates in colleges, universities, public libraries, radio, TV, churches and mosques on the virtues of Islam. Proclaim how it is historically another religion like Judaism and Christianity with the same monotheistic faith.

4. Nominate Muslim sympathizers to political office to bring about favorable legislation toward Islam and support potential sympathizers by block voting.

5. Take control of as much of Hollywood, the press, TV, radio and the Internet as possible by buying the related corporations or a controlling stock.

6. Yield to the fear of the imminent shut-off of the lifeblood of America – black gold. America’s economy depends on oil and 41 percent of it comes from the Middle East.

7. Yell ''foul, out-of-context, personal interpretation, hate crime, Zionist, un- American, inaccurate interpretation of the Quran'' anytime Islam is criticized or the Quran is analyzed in the public arena.

8. Encourage Muslims to penetrate the White House, specifically with Islamists who can articulate a marvelous and peaceful picture of Islam. Acquire government positions and get membership in local school boards. Train Muslims as medical doctors to dominate the medical field, research and pharmaceutical companies. (Ever notice how numerous Muslim doctors in America are, when their countries need them more desperately than America?) Take over the computer industry. Establish Middle Eastern restaurants throughout the U.S. to connect planners of Islamization in a discreet way.

9. Accelerate Islamic demographic growth via:

• Massive immigration (100,000 annually since 1961).

• Use no birth control whatsoever – every baby of Muslim parents is automatically a Muslim and cannot choose another religion later.

• Muslim men must marry American women and Islamize them (10,000 annually). Then divorce them and remarry every five years – since one can't legally marry four at one time. This is a legal solution in America.

• Convert angry, alienated black inmates and turn them into militants (so far 2,000 released inmates have joined al-Qaida worldwide). Only a few ''sleeper cells'' have been captured in Afghanistan and on American soil.

10. Reading, writing, arithmetic and research through the American educational system, mosques and student centers (now 1,500) should be sprinkled with dislike of Jews, evangelical Christians and democracy. There are currently 300 exclusively Muslim schools in the U.S. which teach loyalty to the Quran, not the U.S. Constitution. In January of 2002, Saudi Arabia’s Embassy in Washington mailed 4,500 packets of the Quran and videos promoting Islam to America's high schools – free of charge. Saudi Arabia would not allow the U.S. to reciprocate.

11. Provide very sizeable monetary Muslim grants to colleges and universities in America to establish ''Centers for Islamic studies'' with Muslim directors to promote Islam in higher-education institutions.

12. Let the entire world know through propaganda, speeches, seminars, local and national media that terrorists have hijacked Islam, when in truth, Islam hijacked the terrorists.

13. Appeal to the historically compassionate and sensitive Americans for sympathy and tolerance towards Muslims in America who are portrayed as mainly immigrants from oppressed countries.

14. Nullify America's sense of security by manipulating the intelligence community with misinformation. Periodically terrorize Americans with reports of impending attacks on bridges, tunnels, water supplies, airports, apartment buildings and malls.

15. Form riots and demonstrations in the prison system demanding Islamic Sharia as the way of life, not America's justice system.

16. Open numerous charities throughout the U.S., but use the funds to support Islamic terrorism with American dollars.

17. Raise interest in Islam on America's campuses by insisting freshman take at least one course on Islam.

18. Unify the numerous Muslim lobbies in Washington, mosques, Islamic student centers, educational organizations, magazines and papers by Internet and an annual convention to coordinate plans, propagate the faith and engender news in the media.

19. Send intimidating messages and messengers to the outspoken individuals who are critical of Islam and seek to eliminate them by hook or crook.

20. Applaud Muslims as loyal citizens of the U.S. by spotlighting their voting record as the highest percentage of all minority and ethic groups in America.

Shorrosh is a member of the Oxford Society of Scholars, has traveled in 76 countries, and is a lecturer and producer of TV documentaries. ''Islam Revealed'' is a bestseller now in its eighth printing. His forthcoming 10th book, from which the 20-point plan is abridged, is titled ''Islam: A Threat or a Challenge.''

''The True Furqan'' is also available for viewing on Islam-Exposed.org. Shorrosh's new website is Focusing-on-Islam.com.

[PoisedWoman]

.....Washington's loyal support for leaders, from Morocco to Egypt and the Persian Gulf, who are almost universally seen by their own citizens as corrupt and illegitimate in religious terms.

I think this is misleading. Many in the Middle EAst despise our support of tyranical governments for economic rather than religious reasons. Assad in Syria, for example, rules with cooperation of his homies, the Alewites, who run all of the businesses and government offices. Their hold on the money is almost unbreakable. Businessmen outside the inner circle have to pay so much bribery to the Alewites that they can rarely succeed in getting a business off the ground to compete with the crony network. Same in Iraq with Saddam and the Ba'athists, which we did support for a number of years.

If Iraq can become business-friendly and Iraqi innovation and entrepreneurship can flourish, the other regimes will topple or at least be forced to reform their economic policies. We'll probably see something like a SBA set up in Iraq soon. Hopefully. Then only a very small minority will rant around for "religious" reasons.

Osama, IMO, straddles the line between religius nut and savvy money man. Could be he's exploiting religious fanatics in order to shift the economic balance of the ME. If Saudi funds are behind him (we have some reason to believe they're not?), it may be that jihad is about financially enriching Saudis and eventually giving them political as well as economic control of the ME and the world. That's why they fund the Wahaabi schools that teach intelligent, muscular young men nothing but hatred of the West. Cannon Fodder University will provide an excellent longterm return on their investment, or so they think.

[livius]

Interesting. Bump.

[PoisedWoman]

5. Take control of as much of Hollywood, the press, TV, radio and the Internet as possible by buying the related corporations or a controlling stock.

An acquaintance in HoWood tells me that in Beverly Hills the majority of landlords are now Iranians and Arabs. Also, that Iranians are major money men in HoWood, which is why so many culturally destructive movies are made and so few heart-warming movies make it to the screen. They say that they finance those awful violent sex-filled movies because they are sure to turn a profit. Could be their other intention is to undermine American values????

[TheCrusader]

"Belloc had a quote that sums it up. "In times of comfort and plenty we are amused by the barbarian and refreshed by his comic inversion of our everyday certitutudes. But beyond our walls are large and awful faces and on those faces there are no smiles."

"Wanna' bet Osauma watched for at least 15 years before 9-11 and never grinned even once?"

I wish everyone would read Hillaire Belloc, the great historian of the early 20th century. He predicted that Islam was lying low and was far from dead, and that it would rise again to attack the West. Belloc was right on the money. What is really going on in our generation is an extention of the Crusades.

Students of history will know that the early Crusades were victorious, as the Christians took back Jerusalem from the belligerent Mohamedans, and the route to the Holy City for Christian pilgrims was once again safe. But later on the Crusades ended in failure, for various reasons, and Islam took back the Holy City and other places once held by the Crusaders. But what happened long after the Crusades ended and the middle ages passed was that the West 'invaded' Islam in a different way, and conquered them economically. The last couple hundred years saw the West grow in leaps and bounds in technology, while the Middle east and other Islamic areas stagnated in technology, military strength and economic stability. The West could now overshadow Islam in every way imaginable. Hence, Islam sees this new kind of dominance as a continuation of the Crusades, and so they fight us at every turn.

If you notice, the Islamic terror attacks are not really aimed at defeating us by killing us off in massive numbers, but is primarily aimed at destroying us economically - they seek to undermine the foundation of our present superiority over them.

[Happy2BMe]

"Could be their other intention is to undermine American values????"

YES.

[Happy2BMe]

"Students of history will know that the early Crusades were victorious, as the Christians took back Jerusalem from the belligerent Mohamedans, and the route to the Holy City for Christian pilgrims was once again safe."

There were seven crusades. Only the first one achieved any success for "Christian" forces.

The remaining six were rife with corruption, murder, rape, and perversion - at least half of which was performed by "Christian" mercinaries.

On one of the crusades, over 30,000 young boys (not men - ages six to 13) were recruited as "Holy Warriors" by Rome to carry out the Crusades.

They were loaded up in boats, and set sail for Israel.

They never made it. ALL of them were sold into slavery in Northern Africa.

The Crusades were neither holy nor were they successful.

[Bringbackthedraft]

Just think what we could accomplish if we could replace "OIL"!!!! Save western civilzation by ending its dependencee on oil.

[SauronOfMordor]

Radical Islamic thinkers only by non-mohammedan standards. Mohammed, himself led what are euphemistically called 28 military campaigns in which he slaughtered anyone who disagreed with Islam.

What some commentators cal "radical", I call "orthodox". Any Muslim who disavows violence in persuit of Islamic dominance is a heretic who must be killed, per Muslim orthodoxy

[norraad]

Oil is actually struggling to stay important.

Many other energy options are standing in the wings fully rehearsed, in costume & make-up ready to pounce upon the stage.

[Jacob Kell]

"Mohammed, himself led what are euphemistically called 28 military campaigns in which he slaughtered anyone who disagreed with Islam."

Or who refused to accept dhimmitude and de facto second class status. Moslems don't mind Christians and Jews...as long as they suck up, be good little dhimmis (meaning they have few if any real rights other than what the Moslems grant them and even then it's not very much.)and agree to the Jizya and Dhimmi religious apartheid system.

[SauronOfMordor]

You are absoulutely correct, but there are over a BILLION Muslims and most want to be left alone. "Millions" wanting us dead could easily be less than one percent. Unfortunately for them, ignoring terrorists operating in their ...tribal lands (can't really call most Muslim nations "nations" can we?) means that we may to come calling;

On Dec 6, 1941, probably only a tiny percentage of the residents of the Japanese islands wanted to go to war with the United States. Unfortunately, all of Japan paid the price.

[nuconvert]

"that Iranians are major money men in HoWood, which is why so many culturally destructive movies are made and so few heart-warming movies make it to the screen. They say that they finance those awful violent sex-filled movies because they are sure to turn a profit. Could be their other intention is to undermine American values????

Where the heck did you get this crap? Want to come up with some proof for "is why so many culturally destructive movies are made and so few heart-warming movies make it to the screen." OR "their other intention is to undermine American values????"
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Iranians like Americans and aren't here to undermine anything. The ones who are Muslim (and BTW not are all, there are Christian and Jewish,etc.) are secularist.
Please don't confuse Iranians with Arabs. (as it seems that is what you are doing)Try not to lump all the people of the middle east together like they are all the same, please.

[jigsaw]

If I may slightly reword your following comment to make an observation....

Mohammed, himself led what are euphemistically called 28 military campaigns in
which he slaughtered anyone who disagreed with Islam. This is the Islamic model ...

Liberals, themselves write what are euphemistically called press releases
in which they verbally slaughter anyone who disagrees with Liberalism. This
is the Liberal model ...

Liberalism and Islam -- two pees (sic) in a pod.

[wizardoz]

We may not consider ourselves to be at war with Islam. but a significant portion if Islam is at war to the death with us.

Yep. A VERY significant portion. Even if it were an insignificant portion, it would be a problem. That is, even if it's only 10% of Islam at war with us, and even if only 10% of those are violent... 1% of a billion is still a million armed maniacs out to get us.

[joyful1]

Islam is reproducing at much faster rate than non-Islam.

They will outnumber before long.

Abortion, divorce, ect. takes it toll on a culture.

[sal002a]

Isn't this based on the old saying: "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"?

Lawrence of Arabia was clearly a terrorist...if you were a Turk.

[sal002a]

Wow....I think that those things are so far away (and impossible), that we have nothing to worry about.

"Rev. Jesse Jackson and other visible religious personalities who promote Islam as the religion of African-Americans while insisting Christianity is for whites only"????

The "Rev" may be wrong politically, but last I checked, he was a "Christian".

[Happy2BMe]

"The "Rev" may be wrong politically, but last I checked, he was a "Christian".

And your definition of a "Christian - Christ - like" apparently differs from that of others having observed J.J. for the past thirty years.

[quidnunc]

sal002a wrote: Isn't this based on the old saying: "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"? Lawrence of Arabia was clearly a terrorist...if you were a Turk.

Wrong!

Freedom fighters don't deliberately target civilians including — and maybe even especially — women and children; terrorists do.

Lawrence of Arabia confined his attacks to the Ottoman military.

[sal002a]

Not true.

"Freedom fighters", especially in times of desperation, do not exercise the amount of care necessary to limit civilian casualities. Civilians, though not directly targeted, are killed as a result. The line is very very thin. The key is, civlilized nations, such as the US, take steps to prevent civilian deaths - freedom fighters do not. In some 'terrorists' minds - the line between civilians and non-civilians is thin.

And groups we refer to as "freedom fighters", such as the freedom fighters in South America in the 1980s some times did target "civilian" installations.

[sal002a]

Very few people a really "Christ-like". In fact, I know of no public official that is ;P.

I used quotes (") to show that he claims to be a Christian - and tries to bring people into his own church (not an Islamic church).

[Happy2BMe]

Thank you for that.

Agree >> fewer and fewer evidence Christ can stay in American politics.

(Is that anything like a "Godless society?")

[gaspar]

The author has it quite wrong. OBL is not the "latest in a long tradition of radical Islamic thinkers." He is not a thinker; rather, when challenged in 1996 to counter the argument that he was not the author of the famous fatwa declaring war on the USA, he and his friends refused. In the end they admitted that he did not write the fatwa, as they had trumpeted, but that he agreed with it.

Those who knew OBL well in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and Sudan all admit that he is rather a sappy Saudi, born into lots of money, dominated by a partiuclar 11th century dream imparted by (the deceased) Shaykh Azzam, OBL's Palestinian mentor, and later the Arab-Afghan intellectual leader.

It is really questionable whether OBL ever had an original thought in his life. Notice the use of the past tense.

[Squantos]

I consider all followers of the Pisslamic faith the same .......weak of mind , uneducated and capable of killing non combatants like the elderly, women and children. Sadly I can not tell a good muslim from a bad muslim thus if the good ones (if any) don't get a handle on the bad ones they won't like how I handle it should such an opportunity present itself.

Stay Safe !

[sal002a]

Heh..living in a "Westernized" Islamic society might not be so bad.

No abortion, crack-down on pornography and other sincs of Hollywood - and the last great Islamic societies where much more tolerant than the contemporary Christian ones of religious practice...

Too bad we have that whole "No establishment of religion" clause..... ;P

[sal002a]

Early Islam was very peaceful. Very tolerant of other religions as well (say Christianity as a different way for a different people). Christians (well, the ones not trying to reclaim the Holy Land by murdering ever person in sight) where treated well...

[Dialup Llama]

>Early Islam was very peaceful. Very tolerant of other religions as well (say Christianity as a different way for a different people). Christians (well, the ones not trying to reclaim the Holy Land by murdering ever person in sight) where treated well...

Memeber of the Dean Team signed up.... today!

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Not a few thousand but hundreds of millions wish death to us

The fact that 90%+ of Muslims approved of 911 tells you everything you need to know.

[sal002a]

I said "Early Islam". Do you dispute that?

[Dialup Llama]

>I said "Early Islam". Do you dispute that?

A history of your own making. Projecting your wishes on some mythical early Islam.

The tenents of Islam are submission and jihad. Just what do you think that means? The haddiths describe the actions of Muhammed, his many miliary conquests. What peaceful about that? Muhammed is about as 'early Islam' as you can get.

They were peaceful and negotiated when the had no power. When the had the numbers they killed.

[ryanjb2]

<< Early Islam was very peaceful. Very tolerant of other religions as well (say Christianity as a different way for a different people). Christians (well, the ones not trying to reclaim the Holy Land by murdering ever person in sight) where treated well... <<

Early Islam had to be tolerant, because they conquered vast areas of Christendom, and anything less would have led to a wide scale revolt - only a small percentage of the population was Muslim at first. They took care of that by taxing non-Muslims, polygamy, and allowing non-Muslim women to marry Muslim men, but not the other way around.

Peaceful? The Muslims attacked the Byzantine Empire unprovoked for hundreds of years. The Arab Muslims Seiged Constantinople twice, invaded and conquered North Africa, Spain, Sicily, Crete, and raided Italy.

By the time the Crusades started, Europe had endured hundreds of years of aggression.

[sal002a]

No - what you are describing is Islam after many centuries of man influence.

Read "Islam: A Short History" by Karen Armstrong. No book is the authority, but I think the preponderance of any evidence shows that the ultra-violence we see in Islamic Society now is a function of the Islamic World being economically poor and depressed. When they were the dominant cultures, there was quite a bit more peace in their culture.

[wizardoz]

Looks like the Gramsci approach.

[sal002a]

"Unprovoked attack"

Do you have evidence to support this proposition, counselor?

[ryanjb2]

<< Do you have evidence to support this proposition, counselor? <<

Yes. When Islam first began in the early seventh century, The Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) controlled Asia Minor, Syria, Palestine, Egypt - as it had for almost 700 years. The Arabs were not much more than disorganized tribes living in the deserts of Arabia. In 632, on the death of Muhammed, they were united and sent two armies - one to defeat Persia, and one to attack the Eastern Roman Empire. This was an unprovoked attack. The Arabs defeated the Byzantines at the battle of Yarmuk, and took control of Syria and Palestine. Later they took Egypt. After that they laid waste to Asia Minor and seiged the great Christian city of Constaninople. However, Leo IV beat them back and sent the Arabs back to Syria forever.

There goes your peaceful definition.

[sal002a]

I don't believe the attack was entirely unprovoked....However, I see your point.

But, early Islamic society, contemporaneously compared to Europe, was "peaceful" and much more tolerant.

Compared to today's Western society, it isn't peaceful. But at least in Islamic Society, Christians were not persecuted (unlike Muslims in Spain in later years)...

[PoisedWoman]

. Please don't confuse Iranians with Arabs. (as it seems that is what you are doing)Try not to lump all the people of the middle east together like they are all the same, please

nuconvert---and one wonders what you've converted to and from--go back and read my post. "Iranians and Arabs" does not mean "Iranians are Arabs." Or perhaps it does to you. My experience with the ME includes working on a book about ME history with a partner who lived and worked in Kuwait for years, a daughter who lived and worked in Egypt and Tunis for five years, a son who worked in Saudi for three years, lifelong Lebanese friends, a Palestinian Christian business associate.....so go wash out your mouth with soap.

As for where I got "that crap," from a HoWood screenwiter. Where do you get yours? Foreign financing for films is all-too-common and they absolutely prefer sex/violence/cars/special-effects movies to warm fuzzie movies about real Americans because they do not have a clue what real Americans think feel or care about.....