'Bible as hate speech' bill nearing vote

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Wednesday, September 17, 2003 | By Art Moore

[JohnHuang2]

As some U.S. Supreme Court justices look abroad for guidance on cases related to homosexuality, Canada is set to vote on a bill opponents say would criminalize public expression against homosexual behavior.

Introduced by self-described "gay" House of Commons member Svend Robinson, the bill would add sexual orientation as a protected category in Canada's genocide and hate-crimes legislation.

As WorldNetDaily reported, opponents fear if the bill becomes law, the Bible will be deemed "hate literature" under the criminal code in certain instances, as evidenced by the case of a Saskatchewan man fined by a provincial human-rights tribunal for taking out a newspaper ad with Scripture references to verses about homosexuality.

The Parliament is scheduled to debate the bill tomorrow and likely will call a vote within the next few days. The legislation has the support of every provincial and territorial attorney-general in Canada.

The debate comes amid a battle over a government bill that would establish same-sex marriage. Yesterday, Parliament narrowly defeated a nonbinding motion reaffirming the heterosexual-only definition of marriage. The close margin in the Liberal Party-dominated House of Commons, 137-132, raised questions about whether the government bill would pass, especially if an election is called before it is brought to a vote.

Alan Sears, president of the Arizona-based Alliance Defense Fund, a nonprofit legal group, says Americans should pay close attention to their northern neighbors.

"Why does what is going on in Canada matter?" he asked in an interview with WorldNetDaily. "Some of our own justices have already have told us they will be looking closely at how the 'wider civilization' handles these cases."

Sears notes Justice Stephen G. Breyer said in a recent interview with ABC News that the world is growing together through "commerce and through globalization" and we will find out in coming years how our Constitution "fits into the governing documents of other nations. …"

In a speech last month, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said the U.S. Supreme Court is looking beyond America's borders for guidance in handling cases on issues like homosexual rights and the death penalty.

"Our island or lone-ranger mentality is beginning to change," Ginsburg said during a speech Aug. 2 to the American Constitution Society, a liberal lawyers group.

Justices "are becoming more open to comparative and international law perspectives," said Ginsburg, who cited an international treaty in her June vote to uphold the use of race in college admissions.

"While you are the American Constitution Society, your perspective on constitutional law should encompass the world," she told the group of judges, lawyers and students. "We are the losers if we do not both share our experiences with and learn from others."

In the landmark case that overturned Texas's ban on sodomy, Lawrence v. Texas, Justice Anthony Kennedy argued against the previous precedent regarding sodomy, Bowers v. Hardwick, noting the "case's reasoning and holding have been rejected by the European Court of Human Rights, and that other nations have taken action consistent with an affirmation of the protected right of homosexual adults to engage in intimate, consensual conduct."

Sears said the court's arguments in its "fabrication" of a "constitutional right to engage in sodomy" were so questionable that the court felt "compelled to appeal to European courts to justify the desired conclusion."

In his dissent of the Lawrence case, Justice Antonin Scalia with two colleagues said the court should not "impose foreign moods, fads or fashions on Americans."

Scalia wrote, "Constitutional entitlements do not spring into existence because some states choose to lessen or eliminate criminal sanctions on certain behavior. Much less do they spring into existence, as the court seems to believe, because foreign nations decriminalize conduct."

Religious defense?

Backers of Robinson's bill, C-250, argue statements against homosexual behavior for religious reasons are exempted in the current law. But opponents point out the law addressed by Robinson's amendment spells out three different types of actions or speech considered criminal, and only one can be excused by a religious defense. And even that one, opponents maintain, has not always held up in court, because its vagueness leaves wide discretion to judges.

The opponents argue the provincial human-rights commissions, which already include sexual orientation as a protected category, have penalized people for actions motivated by their conscientious objection to homosexual behavior.

As WorldNetDaily reported, a Saskatchewan man was fined for submitting a newspaper ad with citations of four Bible verses that address homosexuality.

Ad placed by Christian corrections officer in Saskatoon, Canada, newspaper

Under the provincial Human Rights Code, Hugh Owens of Regina, Saskatchewan, was found guilty along with the newspaper, the Saskatoon StarPhoenix, of inciting hatred and was forced to pay damages to each of the three homosexual men who filed the complaint.

The rights code allows for expression of honestly held beliefs, but the commission ruled the code can place "reasonable restriction" on Owens's religious expression, because the ad exposed the complainants "to hatred, ridicule, and their dignity was affronted on the basis of their sexual orientation."

If Robinson's bill passes, Owens and others would be considered criminals, subject to a jail sentence of up to two years in some cases and five years in others.

Two years ago, the Ontario Human Rights Commission penalized printer Scott Brockie for refusing to print letterhead for a homosexual advocacy group. Brockie argued that his Christian beliefs compelled him to reject the group's request.

In British Columbia, a teacher was suspended for making "derogatory and demeaning" statements against homosexuals, according to the judgment of a teachers association panel. Though none of the statements in question were made in class, the panel cited letters to a newspaper that indicated veteran teacher Chris Kempling's attitude could "poison" the class environment.

One Kempling letter cited by the panel said: "Gay people are seriously at risk, not because of heterosexual attitudes but because of their sexual behaviour, and I challenge the gay community to show some real evidence that they are trying to protect their own community members by making attempts to promote monogamous, long-lasting relationships to combat sexual addictions."

The teachers panel said it does not need to find direct evidence of a poisoned school environment to determine that a member is guilty of conduct unbecoming.

The panel said, "It is sufficient that an inference can be drawn as to the reasonable and probable consequences of the discriminatory comments of a teacher."

In another case, a Christian couple in Prince Edward Island chose to close down their bed and breakfast rather than be forced to condone homosexual acts under their own roof, according to the National Post.

Along with the human rights tribunals, the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council rules have been used to censure programs addressing homosexuality. In 1997, the council ruled that the airing of a James Dobson "Focus on the Family" program, called "Homosexuality: Fact and Fiction," violated the requirement that opinion, comment, and editorializing be presented in a way that is "full, fair, and proper."

The Vancouver teacher Kempling wrote a letter to the National Post last month, expressing his amazement that the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association would choose to side with the teachers against him, noting "not a single gay or lesbian person registered any complaint about what I wrote, either to my employer or the B.C. Human Rights Commission."

"Now I know how Galileo must have felt," he said. "When civil liberties groups act like Orwell's thought police, true democracy is in serious trouble."

[JohnHuang2]

Wednesday, September 17, 2003

Quote of the Day by Holden Magroin

[FlyVet]

"Why does what is going on in Canada matter?" he asked in an interview with WorldNetDaily. "Some of our own justices have already have told us they will be looking closely at how the 'wider civilization' handles these cases."

Why, this writer must be referring to Ruthless Bad Ginseng...you know, the one who looks like she hasn't, ehem, had a good dose of Metamucil in about 5 years? We must, you know, consult international law before we make decisions. Idiot.

[bitcon]

Please do not ever follow what Canada does. It only turns out bad. I live in Canada and it's hell, a pure living hell. I'm looking for anyway out to the US and I sure as hell don't want to get there and find another Canada forming.

[isrul]

The remarks of Ginsberg, Breyer, and Kennedy put them beyond contempt. Don't they take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United states? At the very least, they should be impeached.

[tjwmason]

Note that the law in question covers genocide and hate-crimes. Therefore, according to modern logic murdering people because of their ethinicity can be equated to declining to print letter-head of a gay advocacy group.

Forgive my obviously 'unenlightened' nature, but isn't it a tiny bit utterly abominable to put the Nazis in the same category as a small printer with various principles?

[Skooz]

It seems that the Great White North has gone insane. It'll soon be the nutty aunt in the attic.

[EdReform]

Bump and ping.

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[truthandlife]

Bitcon, I feel for you. I am curious what is so bad about Canada? I know you guys have gone to a lot of socialist policies but is it really so bad that you want to get out of there?

[GrandMoM]

BTTT

[ArGee]

Apparently, saying that someone is wrong is tantamount to hating that someone. That brings an interesting question to mind. What am I saying when I say...

I was wrong.

Shalom.

[Zack Nguyen]

"Now I know how Galileo must have felt," he said. "When civil liberties groups act like Orwell's thought police, true democracy is in serious trouble."

Sure, they have elections every so often, but freedom to speak (and thus freedom of conscience) is now controlled by the leftist elite.

[John O]

Apparently, saying that someone is wrong is tantamount to hating that someone.

Which raises the other question. What's so bad about hating someone? God hated people. If he can do it why can't we?

[ArGee]

God hated people.

I'm not sure G-d ever hated a person, (I know the Biblical language). G-d hates sin and what sin produces, but I think He loves the sinner even while the sinner is choosing Hell.

Shalom.

[John O]

While you are correct the bible says what it says. I always found that particular verse puzzling but have never researched it deeper.

[First Amendment]

"While you are the American Constitution Society, your perspective on constitutional law should encompass the world," she told the group of judges, lawyers and students. "We are the losers if we do not both share our experiences with and learn from others."

This is just one of the many terrifying statements in the above article. How long can things continue in this nose-dive direction? When same sex acts are a holy protected rite, and speaking the truth is a crime? I can't imagine how horrible to be a Canadian right now.

But according to the fools wearing black robes, this will be coming to the US soon. I can only hope that Americans who still can understand the difference between right and wrong will stand up and change the course.

[bitcon]

Income tax up to 50% and of 14.5% sales tax. Being told that your wrong for not supporting same sex marriage or anti-American, yes I know you gave that there but at least most of you agree that it shouldn't be legal and there's alot less support for anti-Americans. Our military sucks, the main reason I want to leave is because I want to serve. Guns are pretty much totally illegal, only rifles, shotguns and handguns and they're all heavily retricted as in the barrel of the handgun must be 105mm or more, about 4.13 inches, (don't ask me about storage, it's even worse). Jean Chretien as Prime Minister. The NDP (commies with a different name). In Saskatchewan the Bible has been declared hate literature. Gov't health care that doesn't work. I've already been denied promt service twice (one of those I was almost completely denied service) and I'm only 18, I dont want to know how many times it's going to be denied me in my life time. Don't tell me to go pay for it because that's illegal in Canada. I could go on but I think the list is long enough. This isn't the type of place I want to live and most people here don't want to change it so my choice is to leave.

[truthandlife]

Wow, I feel for you. Get to the United States as quick as possible it is better but if we keep falling asleep at the wheel we will be just like Canada in a few years.

[bitcon]

I'm trying to get there but it's not easy. Senators don't like to help (both Democrats and Republicans), they don't even respond to me. They did talk to my cousin but told him I had to talk to my representative, helpful since I don't have one. Since there's 4 ways to get a green card and I don't or can never meet 2 of them I'm limited. All I have is employer sponsorship, which is hard, and family sponsorship which I don't meet and will only meet it some how an impediate family member gets a green card or I get married to an American.

[EUPHORIC]

I've heard that satellite dishes are all but illegal in Canada (just as they are in many communist states and Iraq etc) is that true? What other kids of things like that go on up there?

[headsonpikes]

No Marlboro cigarettes.

It's true.

[bitcon]

Satellite dishes aren't illegal. Direct TV is though. It's not Canadian owned so it can't be sold here, it doesn't stop people who want it though. All US broadcasts get over ridden with Canadian channels if they're showing the same program (no Super Bowl adds). There's not enough doctors for people because they can make more money in the US but our health care is "the best in the world". Alot of stupid stuff socialist crap. For some reason people who don't work and are in their 30's think that the government owes them a place to live, unfortunatly alot of politicians agree. Apparently 50% tax rate for the rich isn't making them pay "their fair share". This rate will depend on where in Canada you live and it may be lower here in BC now. There was a 25% tax cut (you pay 25% less, we weren't paying 75%) but only on provincial taxes and that's a smaller portion of income tax. You don't even want to hear about the gun laws. If you have a gun it has to be locked in a 400lbs or more safe or a proper gunsafe, whatever that is. I have looked at a few though and I know that about half of Glocks gun are illegal in Canda. I could tell you more about that but there's so much to say and I don't even know all the laws yet as I am only now old enough to get a gun.

[bitcon]

Canadian satellite companies are legal though, like StarChoice, ExpressVu and I think thats all we have.

[joesnuffy]

"JACOB HAVE I LOVED BUT ESAU HAVE I HATED"
Romans 9:13

C.H. Spurgeon



WHY DID GOD LOVE JACOB AND HATE ESAU? I can tell you why God LOVED Jacob; IT IS SOVEREIGN GRACE! There was
nothing in Jacob that could make God love him; there was everything about him that might have made God hate him as
much as He did Esau, and a great deal more. But it was because God is infinitely gracious that He loved Jacob and
because He is sovereign in His dispensation of His grace that He chose Jacob as an object of that love. Jacob was loved
by God simply on the footing of FREE GRACE.

WHY DID GOD HATE ESAU? Why does God hate any man? I defy anyone to give any answer but this... because that man
DESERVES to be hated. No reply but that can be true. If God deals severely with any person, it is because that person
deserves all that he gets. Esau did not lose his birthright; he sold it. he sold it for a "mess of pottage." If any of you
want to know what I preach, it is this: "I preach salvation all of grace and damnation all of sin. I give God the
glory for every soul that is saved; and when I come to preach damnation, I say that damnation is of man."

[johnb838]

Ruth Bader (Meinhof) Gangsburg

[FlyVet]

I'm looking for anyway out to the US and I sure as hell don't want to get there and find another Canada forming.

Sorry to hear that. You better get here fast, because it looks like we're becoming a combination of Canada (Socialism) and Mexico (Aztlan Cesspool). I don't see anyone with the political will to turn this ship around, it's only a matter of whether it cruises, or goes full steam ahead.

[bitcon]

I don't see anyone with the political will to turn this ship around

Doesn't have to be one person. As people here have said they feel civil war II is coming. After that the nation will go in whatever direction the winning side wants to take it. If ain't conservatives I'll already be dead.

[txzman]

"Apparently, saying that someone is wrong is tantamount to hating that someone."

There is no "wrong" anymore, just as there is no "truth". Everything is relative, all behavior and actions are "normal' for that "individual". There are no "absolutes" - saying there is an "absolute truth" is hate speech.

And if you do not like this philosophy - you had better pull your children out of public schools - today.

[FlyVet]

I think civil war is quite possible, somewhere down the road. At that point, it will be a matter of how many true patriots are left. It will be a bang, or a whimper, and I don't have the crytal ball to predict that one. Negativism aside, it's still a great place to live, and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. For now.

[bitcon]

It's not just how many patriots are left but how well armed they are. It's not a great place to live, it's the best place to live.

[Jorge]

This is news?
Canada has considered the publishing or broadcasting Biblical prohibitions against homosexuality to be hate speech for years, and I've seen articles about people prosecuted for this.

I wonder if Canadians think their hate speech laws will be a defense on Judgement Day.

[FlyVet]

By the way, if you are an 18 yr old Canadian, as you say you are, are there many more up there in your age group who are able to think the way you do?

[bitcon]

Yes. There's quite a few, most young Canadians don't think like me, or atleast speak out, but there's more then you'd expect. I have a few friends who also want to enlist but they're stuck like me with immigration. There's also another person from Freerepublic who lives in Alberta who want's to join and is having the same problem.

[Porterville]

"When civil liberties groups act like Orwell's thought police, true democracy is in serious trouble."

I disagree, I believe democracy is just around the corner....

[tet68]

Excellent!

Pithy and to the point!

[Terriergal]

is it really so bad that you want to get out of there?

Their gun control policies have cost umpteen times more than they had planned, and neighbors are allowed/encouraged to turn in neighbors for not turning in illegal guns...or not registering the ones they have.

Their socialized medicine is pretty bad I hear... I would say yeah, it's pretty bad. I sure wouldn't go there. I'd have to sell my new toy.

[FlyVet]

I wish you and your patriot friends godspeed, we can use all of you we can get. It's too bad it's such a hassle for you, who are trying to obtain citizenship legally, while our politicians not only look the other way for millions of illegals, but reward them for their lawbreaking.

[bitcon]

Thanks. You wouldn't believe what I've been told by some INS people and politicians. Everything from your an illegal to I don't have time. I've even been told to talk to my representative. Difficult as I don't have one.

[ArGee]

And if you do not like this philosophy - you had better pull your children out of public schools - today.

By the grace of G-d I've been homeschooling for over 16 years.

Well, my wife has been homeschooling, but I help. :)

Shalom.

[biblewonk]

This ought to be entertaining. Christianity needs some good ole fashioned persecution.

[glory]

Under the provincial Human Rights Code, Hugh Owens of Regina, Saskatchewan, was found guilty along with the newspaper, the Saskatoon StarPhoenix, of inciting hatred and was forced to pay damages to each of the three homosexual men who filed the complaint.
_________________

Damages for what? Being made to feel guilty? Good grief? So in Canada I can file a complaint against liberals for making me feel bad? COOL. Oh crap wait, conservatives aren't a protected class...

Scary stuff folks, scary stuff.

This is outrageous on so many levels.

[glory]

Genocide and hate crimes legistlation? Does this include genocide against the unborn in Canada? Oops, that's right "fetus" is not a protected class in Canada. Perhaps, maybe if they could find that ever elusive "gay gene" that would change.

[glory]

And while you are struggling, down to our south people are pouring in illegally and getting protected for doing it. Sigh...good luck to you bitcon. Wish there was some way I could help!

[johniegrad]

This ought to be entertaining. Christianity needs some good ole fashioned persecution.

As goofy as it sounds, there is some truth to your post. As I see it, many Christians in this country don't appreciate the importance of their basic God given rights to worship in the way that they choose. The more that right is threatened, I believe, the more that right will become appreciated. Watching these types of situations in Canada may motivate more to action here.

[biblewonk]

As goofy as it sounds, there is some truth to your post. As I see it, many Christians in this country don't appreciate the importance of their basic God given rights to worship in the way that they choose. The more that right is threatened, I believe, the more that right will become appreciated. Watching these types of situations in Canada may motivate more to action here.

Christianity in this country is in pretty poor shape as we no longer defend our doctrines in the schools where we send our children. We don't defend the bible as our churches promote abortion homosexuality and even such things as female pastors. We really need some persecution to seperate the real Christians from those that are not and are confusing those who are.

[newgeezer]

Christianity in this country is in pretty poor shape as we no longer defend our doctrines in the schools where we send our children. We don't defend the bible as our churches promote abortion homosexuality and even such things as female pastors.

C'mon, 'Wonk. We've progressed beyond those stuffy, old values. We're enlightened now.

[bitcon]

Ya I've read about California wanting to give drivers licenses to illegals. It's sad when an illegal who can barely speak English and has no interest in serving his adoptive country gets more attention then people who want to legally come and serve. I had my cousin try to talk to one of his reps, I don't know who but they were from Virginia, and he was told to get me to talk to my rep. It's really pissing him off cause he did the same thing that I'm trying to do, only he was lucky because of Vietnam.

Thanks for the support though.

[Canadian Outrage]

It honestly depends on what Province and specifically what City you live in. You can forget the cesspool of Central Canada where their bogus laws come from. I live in Kelowna, B.C. and our mayor outright refused to have a Gay Pride Parade. The homosexuals took him the UNELECTED Human Rights Commission where they ruled against him. Did he bow to their wishes? NO!! There has NOT been a Gay Pride Parade here since and the mayor in question is STILL the mayor. Elected again. This foul putrid legislation only passed by the speaker of the house breaking a tie. Several chicken$hit Liberals whose political life depended on a no vote stayed home. Several other Liberals broke party ranks and voted NO. The Canadian Alliance of course voted against such depravity. Good luck trying to criminalize scripture. Incidentally, last year I was given a copy of a piece of secret legislation that was passed very quietly in the United States by the wonderful Janet Reno including Evangelical Christians in cults. There was one more piece to the legislation that brought some criminality to it. I will find it and post it. It may take me a day or two but I will find that. The more Liberals there are ANYWHERE the more of this you are going to see. They are on the rampage everywhere. I was aghast that Judge Moore was dismissed and the Ten Commandments were removed from a public building in a SOUTHERN State. The infection is spreading everywhere. As Christians, we must stand AGAINST this depravity regardless of consequences.

[blue jeans]

God doesn't hate people. He hates sin.

Yes, it is possible to love the sinner and hate the sin.

Don't believe me.... have you ever had one of your kids do something wrong?

[Happy2BMe]

Legal discrimination of Christians is coming to America - sooner rather than later.

Can the legal system in Canada migrate to the United States?

"The question is or at least ought to be, how can such a small, godless, minority have such influence over our courts and legislative processes?"

Answer:

U.S. Supreme Court, 2003 - The Oligarchy*

Back Row (left to right): Ginsburg, Souter, Thomas, Breyer
Front Row (left to right): Scalia, Stevens, Rehnquist, O'Connor, Kennedy

ol·i·gar·chy
Pronunciation: 'ä-l&-"gär-kE, 'O-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -chies
Date: 1542
1 : government by the few
2 : a government in which a small group exercises control especially for corrupt and selfish purposes; also : a group exercising such control
3 : an organization under oligarchic control

Thanks for this great post!

[glory]

Sigh bitcon. I wish there was something I could do. My mom came over as a Brit married to an American. She had a heck of a time just getting her green card renewed recently(she's no longer married to my dad).

Here's hoping you and those like you make your way down. Maybe you can take Canada back for the good guys someday to boot!