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'Bible as hate speech' bill nearing vote ^ | Wednesday, September 17, 2003 | By Art Moore

Posted on 09/17/2003 1:39:57 AM PDT by JohnHuang2

As some U.S. Supreme Court justices look abroad for guidance on cases related to homosexuality, Canada is set to vote on a bill opponents say would criminalize public expression against homosexual behavior.

Introduced by self-described "gay" House of Commons member Svend Robinson, the bill would add sexual orientation as a protected category in Canada's genocide and hate-crimes legislation.

As WorldNetDaily reported, opponents fear if the bill becomes law, the Bible will be deemed "hate literature" under the criminal code in certain instances, as evidenced by the case of a Saskatchewan man fined by a provincial human-rights tribunal for taking out a newspaper ad with Scripture references to verses about homosexuality.

The Parliament is scheduled to debate the bill tomorrow and likely will call a vote within the next few days. The legislation has the support of every provincial and territorial attorney-general in Canada.

The debate comes amid a battle over a government bill that would establish same-sex marriage. Yesterday, Parliament narrowly defeated a nonbinding motion reaffirming the heterosexual-only definition of marriage. The close margin in the Liberal Party-dominated House of Commons, 137-132, raised questions about whether the government bill would pass, especially if an election is called before it is brought to a vote.

Alan Sears, president of the Arizona-based Alliance Defense Fund, a nonprofit legal group, says Americans should pay close attention to their northern neighbors.

"Why does what is going on in Canada matter?" he asked in an interview with WorldNetDaily. "Some of our own justices have already have told us they will be looking closely at how the 'wider civilization' handles these cases."

Sears notes Justice Stephen G. Breyer said in a recent interview with ABC News that the world is growing together through "commerce and through globalization" and we will find out in coming years how our Constitution "fits into the governing documents of other nations. …"

In a speech last month, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said the U.S. Supreme Court is looking beyond America's borders for guidance in handling cases on issues like homosexual rights and the death penalty.

"Our island or lone-ranger mentality is beginning to change," Ginsburg said during a speech Aug. 2 to the American Constitution Society, a liberal lawyers group.

Justices "are becoming more open to comparative and international law perspectives," said Ginsburg, who cited an international treaty in her June vote to uphold the use of race in college admissions.

"While you are the American Constitution Society, your perspective on constitutional law should encompass the world," she told the group of judges, lawyers and students. "We are the losers if we do not both share our experiences with and learn from others."

In the landmark case that overturned Texas's ban on sodomy, Lawrence v. Texas, Justice Anthony Kennedy argued against the previous precedent regarding sodomy, Bowers v. Hardwick, noting the "case's reasoning and holding have been rejected by the European Court of Human Rights, and that other nations have taken action consistent with an affirmation of the protected right of homosexual adults to engage in intimate, consensual conduct."

Sears said the court's arguments in its "fabrication" of a "constitutional right to engage in sodomy" were so questionable that the court felt "compelled to appeal to European courts to justify the desired conclusion."

In his dissent of the Lawrence case, Justice Antonin Scalia with two colleagues said the court should not "impose foreign moods, fads or fashions on Americans."

Scalia wrote, "Constitutional entitlements do not spring into existence because some states choose to lessen or eliminate criminal sanctions on certain behavior. Much less do they spring into existence, as the court seems to believe, because foreign nations decriminalize conduct."

Religious defense?

Backers of Robinson's bill, C-250, argue statements against homosexual behavior for religious reasons are exempted in the current law. But opponents point out the law addressed by Robinson's amendment spells out three different types of actions or speech considered criminal, and only one can be excused by a religious defense. And even that one, opponents maintain, has not always held up in court, because its vagueness leaves wide discretion to judges.

The opponents argue the provincial human-rights commissions, which already include sexual orientation as a protected category, have penalized people for actions motivated by their conscientious objection to homosexual behavior.

As WorldNetDaily reported, a Saskatchewan man was fined for submitting a newspaper ad with citations of four Bible verses that address homosexuality.

Ad placed by Christian corrections officer in Saskatoon, Canada, newspaper

Under the provincial Human Rights Code, Hugh Owens of Regina, Saskatchewan, was found guilty along with the newspaper, the Saskatoon StarPhoenix, of inciting hatred and was forced to pay damages to each of the three homosexual men who filed the complaint.

The rights code allows for expression of honestly held beliefs, but the commission ruled the code can place "reasonable restriction" on Owens's religious expression, because the ad exposed the complainants "to hatred, ridicule, and their dignity was affronted on the basis of their sexual orientation."

If Robinson's bill passes, Owens and others would be considered criminals, subject to a jail sentence of up to two years in some cases and five years in others.

Two years ago, the Ontario Human Rights Commission penalized printer Scott Brockie for refusing to print letterhead for a homosexual advocacy group. Brockie argued that his Christian beliefs compelled him to reject the group's request.

In British Columbia, a teacher was suspended for making "derogatory and demeaning" statements against homosexuals, according to the judgment of a teachers association panel. Though none of the statements in question were made in class, the panel cited letters to a newspaper that indicated veteran teacher Chris Kempling's attitude could "poison" the class environment.

One Kempling letter cited by the panel said: "Gay people are seriously at risk, not because of heterosexual attitudes but because of their sexual behaviour, and I challenge the gay community to show some real evidence that they are trying to protect their own community members by making attempts to promote monogamous, long-lasting relationships to combat sexual addictions."

The teachers panel said it does not need to find direct evidence of a poisoned school environment to determine that a member is guilty of conduct unbecoming.

The panel said, "It is sufficient that an inference can be drawn as to the reasonable and probable consequences of the discriminatory comments of a teacher."

In another case, a Christian couple in Prince Edward Island chose to close down their bed and breakfast rather than be forced to condone homosexual acts under their own roof, according to the National Post.

Along with the human rights tribunals, the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council rules have been used to censure programs addressing homosexuality. In 1997, the council ruled that the airing of a James Dobson "Focus on the Family" program, called "Homosexuality: Fact and Fiction," violated the requirement that opinion, comment, and editorializing be presented in a way that is "full, fair, and proper."

The Vancouver teacher Kempling wrote a letter to the National Post last month, expressing his amazement that the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association would choose to side with the teachers against him, noting "not a single gay or lesbian person registered any complaint about what I wrote, either to my employer or the B.C. Human Rights Commission."

"Now I know how Galileo must have felt," he said. "When civil liberties groups act like Orwell's thought police, true democracy is in serious trouble."

TOPICS: Canada; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bible; homosexualagenda; prisoners
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To: JohnHuang2
Genocide and hate crimes legistlation? Does this include genocide against the unborn in Canada? Oops, that's right "fetus" is not a protected class in Canada. Perhaps, maybe if they could find that ever elusive "gay gene" that would change.
41 posted on 09/18/2003 6:48:53 AM PDT by glory
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To: bitcon
And while you are struggling, down to our south people are pouring in illegally and getting protected for doing it. Sigh...good luck to you bitcon. Wish there was some way I could help!
42 posted on 09/18/2003 6:53:07 AM PDT by glory
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To: biblewonk
This ought to be entertaining. Christianity needs some good ole fashioned persecution.

As goofy as it sounds, there is some truth to your post. As I see it, many Christians in this country don't appreciate the importance of their basic God given rights to worship in the way that they choose. The more that right is threatened, I believe, the more that right will become appreciated. Watching these types of situations in Canada may motivate more to action here.

43 posted on 09/18/2003 7:15:24 AM PDT by johniegrad
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To: johniegrad; newgeezer
As goofy as it sounds, there is some truth to your post. As I see it, many Christians in this country don't appreciate the importance of their basic God given rights to worship in the way that they choose. The more that right is threatened, I believe, the more that right will become appreciated. Watching these types of situations in Canada may motivate more to action here.

Christianity in this country is in pretty poor shape as we no longer defend our doctrines in the schools where we send our children. We don't defend the bible as our churches promote abortion homosexuality and even such things as female pastors. We really need some persecution to seperate the real Christians from those that are not and are confusing those who are.

44 posted on 09/18/2003 7:37:56 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrisssssssstian)
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To: biblewonk
Christianity in this country is in pretty poor shape as we no longer defend our doctrines in the schools where we send our children. We don't defend the bible as our churches promote abortion homosexuality and even such things as female pastors.

C'mon, 'Wonk. We've progressed beyond those stuffy, old values. We're enlightened now.

45 posted on 09/18/2003 8:18:15 AM PDT by newgeezer (Sarcasm content: 100.00%)
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To: glory
Ya I've read about California wanting to give drivers licenses to illegals. It's sad when an illegal who can barely speak English and has no interest in serving his adoptive country gets more attention then people who want to legally come and serve. I had my cousin try to talk to one of his reps, I don't know who but they were from Virginia, and he was told to get me to talk to my rep. It's really pissing him off cause he did the same thing that I'm trying to do, only he was lucky because of Vietnam.

Thanks for the support though.
46 posted on 09/18/2003 2:47:46 PM PDT by bitcon
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To: truthandlife
It honestly depends on what Province and specifically what City you live in. You can forget the cesspool of Central Canada where their bogus laws come from. I live in Kelowna, B.C. and our mayor outright refused to have a Gay Pride Parade. The homosexuals took him the UNELECTED Human Rights Commission where they ruled against him. Did he bow to their wishes? NO!! There has NOT been a Gay Pride Parade here since and the mayor in question is STILL the mayor. Elected again. This foul putrid legislation only passed by the speaker of the house breaking a tie. Several chicken$hit Liberals whose political life depended on a no vote stayed home. Several other Liberals broke party ranks and voted NO. The Canadian Alliance of course voted against such depravity. Good luck trying to criminalize scripture. Incidentally, last year I was given a copy of a piece of secret legislation that was passed very quietly in the United States by the wonderful Janet Reno including Evangelical Christians in cults. There was one more piece to the legislation that brought some criminality to it. I will find it and post it. It may take me a day or two but I will find that. The more Liberals there are ANYWHERE the more of this you are going to see. They are on the rampage everywhere. I was aghast that Judge Moore was dismissed and the Ten Commandments were removed from a public building in a SOUTHERN State. The infection is spreading everywhere. As Christians, we must stand AGAINST this depravity regardless of consequences.
47 posted on 09/18/2003 3:08:41 PM PDT by Canadian Outrage (All us Western Canuks belong South)
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To: John O
God doesn't hate people. He hates sin.

Yes, it is possible to love the sinner and hate the sin.

Don't believe me.... have you ever had one of your kids do something wrong?

48 posted on 09/18/2003 3:14:06 PM PDT by blue jeans
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To: JohnHuang2; 2sheep; MHGinTN; Coleus; Mr. Silverback; ArGee; DonQ; Ginosko; pollywog; ...
Legal discrimination of Christians is coming to America - sooner rather than later.

Can the legal system in Canada migrate to the United States?

"The question is or at least ought to be, how can such a small, godless, minority have such influence over our courts and legislative processes?"


U.S. Supreme Court, 2003 - The Oligarchy*

Justices of the Supreme Court

Back Row (left to right): Ginsburg, Souter, Thomas, Breyer
Front Row (left to right): Scalia, Stevens, Rehnquist, O'Connor, Kennedy

Pronunciation: 'ä-l&-"gär-kE, 'O-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -chies
Date: 1542
1 : government by the few
2 : a government in which a small group exercises control especially for corrupt and selfish purposes; also : a group exercising such control
3 : an organization under oligarchic control

Thanks for this great post!

49 posted on 09/18/2003 3:54:46 PM PDT by Happy2BMe (LIBERTY has arrived in Iraq - Now we can concentrate on HOLLYWEED!)
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To: bitcon
Sigh bitcon. I wish there was something I could do. My mom came over as a Brit married to an American. She had a heck of a time just getting her green card renewed recently(she's no longer married to my dad).

Here's hoping you and those like you make your way down. Maybe you can take Canada back for the good guys someday to boot!
50 posted on 09/18/2003 4:43:21 PM PDT by glory
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To: bitcon
I have an Idea on how to get here. Immigrate to Mexico. Once you become a Mexican citizen you can just walk across the border, get a job paying cash for a few years and then Congress will automatically make you a citizen!
Sarcasm aside, I wish you well and would welcome you as a fellow countryman.
51 posted on 09/18/2003 5:36:46 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: GrandEagle
That would take too long. I want to get in now or soon so I can enlist before I hit 30. That said it would probably be faster unless I can get help from someone in power (senator or someone).
52 posted on 09/18/2003 7:51:29 PM PDT by bitcon
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To: glory
The INS, or BCIS now, is being quite weird. A cousin of mine had some trouble too and she's still married to her American husband, they've been married for 30 years or more so why she hasn't become a US citizen I don't know. I think Canada is beyond saving. It won't happen until the people realize socialism doesn't work. Like the people in Russia and China have realized. Yes I know China is Communist but the people are really moving away form that. Thanks for your support though.
53 posted on 09/18/2003 8:02:28 PM PDT by bitcon
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To: bitcon
54 posted on 09/18/2003 8:10:20 PM PDT by m18436572
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To: bitcon
For some reason people who don't work and are in their 30's think that the government owes them a place to live, unfortunatly alot of politicians agree . . . . You don't even want to hear about the gun laws. If you have a gun it has to be locked in a 400lbs or more safe or a proper gunsafe, whatever that is. I have looked at a few though and I know that about half of Glocks gun are illegal in Canda. I could tell you more about that but there's so much to say and I don't even know all the laws yet as I am only now old enough to get a gun.

If you are fortunate enough to emigrate, choose a state other than California to emigrate to. What you have just described about Canada pretty much matches the vision Arnold Schwarzenegger has for California.

Settle in a (relatively) free state, and help keep it free.

55 posted on 09/18/2003 8:11:51 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: Kevin Curry
I'm not lucky enough yet but I hope to be. Arnold isn't as back as Canada is, he's only mentioned banning .50 guns. Sniper riffles are already illegal here along with .25 and .32 calibers. .22 Handguns are illegal too. There's so many stupid rules. I had a link tot eh list of illegal fire arms, I'll see if I can find it and post it for everyone to read.
56 posted on 09/18/2003 8:30:00 PM PDT by bitcon
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To: Kevin Curry
Here's the link. Guns like the AR 15 and all in that class AK 47 and all like weapons.
57 posted on 09/18/2003 8:39:39 PM PDT by bitcon
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To: bitcon; FairOpinion; Jeff Gordon
Gun control is an insidious and incremental loss of freedom. The mindset that seeks to ban .50 cal rifles (e.g., Arnold and his ilk) will not be satisfied until private onwership of all firearms is banned and only the government is armed.

Social liberal Canada today is simply Schwarzenegger's social liberal California fast-forwarded five years.

Wyoming would be a great place to emigrate to if you can find employment. The area around Jackson is beautiful. Idaho is still a great place to live, too.

58 posted on 09/18/2003 8:51:58 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: Happy2BMe
There are 2306 people who signed this petition.

We do not want gays & lesbians taking advantage of a family institution such as the Texas Rangers and the Ballpark in Arlington to legitimize their perverted lifestyle. The laws against sodomy had been in place for over 200 years with good reason. We disagree with the United States Supreme Court for repealing the sodomy laws that were set up by the founding fathers of this, once great, nation. Sodomy is a sin and a perversion of what God intended for bodies. For these reasons, all family organizations have a responsibility to protect our innocent youth against the gay & lesbian agenda. We do not want our children exposed to this perversion.
59 posted on 09/18/2003 8:58:36 PM PDT by Warden (
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To: Kevin Curry
I've heard Virginia is pretty good. I also heard it's pretty easy to get permission to own automatic weapons there. I could be confused of course as I don't know all the gun laws in Canada or the US but I believe fully automatic weapons in the US have been restricted since 1933, with only permission from the ATF can you own one.
60 posted on 09/18/2003 8:58:58 PM PDT by bitcon
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