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Amazonian find stuns researchers
The Seattle Times ^ | 9-20-03 | By Thomas H. Maugh II

Posted on 09/20/2003 6:15:45 PM PDT by vannrox

Amazonian find stuns researchers



Deep in the Amazon forest of Brazil, archaeologists have found a network of 1,000-year-old towns and villages that refutes two long-held notions: that the pre-Columbian tropical rain forest was a pristine environment that had not been altered by humans, and that the rain forest could not support a complex, sophisticated society.

A 15-mile-square region at the headwaters of the Xingu River contains at least 19 villages that are sited at regular intervals and share the same circular design. The villages are connected by a system of broad, parallel highways, Florida researchers reported in yesterday's issue of Science.

The Xinguano people who occupied the area not only built the complex towns but also dramatically altered the forest to meet their needs, clearing large areas to plant orchards and cassava while preserving other areas as a source of wood, medicine and animals.

(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.nwsource.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: agriculture; amazon; animalhusbandry; archaeologist; archaeology; dietandcuisine; environment; forest; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; huntergatherers; pristine; rainforest; river; society; sophisticated; xingu; xinguano
This is an excerpt.
1 posted on 09/20/2003 6:15:46 PM PDT by vannrox
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To: vannrox
But wait...I'm confused...how could a pristine environment have been despoiled more than 800 years before the birth of the Republican party? </sarcasm off>
2 posted on 09/20/2003 6:17:35 PM PDT by Behind Liberal Lines
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To: vannrox
Very interesting. This just proves once again that there is nothing new under the sun.


3 posted on 09/20/2003 6:17:47 PM PDT by rdb3 (Which is more powerful: The story or the warrior?)
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To: vannrox
Ancient Amazon Settlements Uncovered
Researchers Find Evidence of Sophisticated, Pre-Columbia Civilization in Amazon River Basin

The Associated Press

WASHINGTON Sept. 18 ?

The Amazon River basin was not all a pristine, untouched wilderness before Columbus came to the Americas, as was once believed. Researchers have uncovered clusters of extensive settlements linked by wide roads with other communities and surrounded by agricultural developments.

The researchers, including some descendants of pre-Columbian tribes that lived along the Amazon, have found evidence of densely settled, well-organized communities with roads, moats and bridges in the Upper Xingu part of the vast tropical region.

Michael J. Heckenberger, first author of the study appearing this week in the journal Science, said that the ancestors of the Kuikuro people in the Amazon basin had a "complex and sophisticated" civilization with a population of many thousands during the period before 1492.

"These people were not the small mobile bands or simple dispersed populations" that some earlier studies had suggested, he said.

Instead, the people demonstrated sophisticated levels of engineering, planning, cooperation and architecture in carving out of the tropical rain forest a system of interconnected villages and towns making up a widespread culture based on farming.

Heckenberger said the society that lived in the Amazon before Columbus were overlooked by experts because they did not build the massive cities and pyramids and other structures common to the Mayans, Aztecs and other pre-Columbian societies in South America.

Instead, they built towns, villages and smaller hamlets all laced together by precisely designed roads, some more than 50 yards across, that went in straight lines from one point to another.

"They were not organized in cities," Heckenberger said. "There was a different pattern of small settlements, but they were all tightly integrated.

He said the population in one village and town complex was 2,500 to 5,000 people, but that could be just one of many complexes in the Amazon region.

"All the roads were positioned according to the same angles and they formed a grid throughout the region," he said. Only a small part of these roads has been uncovered and it is uncertain how far the roads extend, but the area studied by his group is a grid 15 miles by 15 miles, he said.

Heckenberger said the people did not build with stone, as did the Mayas, but made tools and other equipment of wood and bone. Such materials quickly deteriorate in the tropical forest, unlike more durable stone structures. Building stones were not readily available along the Amazon, he said.

He said the Amazon people moved huge amounts of dirt to build roads and plazas. At one place, there is evidence that they even built a bridge spanning a major river. The people also altered the natural forest, planting and maintaining orchards and agricultural fields and the effects of this stewardship can still be seen today, Heckenberger said.

Diseases such as smallpox and measles, brought to the new world by European explorers, are thought to have wiped out most of the population along the Amazon, he said. By the time scientists began studying the indigenous people, the population was sparse and far flung. As a result, some researchers assumed that that was the way it was prior to Columbus.

The new studies, Heckenberger said, show that the Amazon basin once was the center of a stable, well-coordinated and sophisticated society.
4 posted on 09/20/2003 6:18:40 PM PDT by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: drstevej; P-Marlowe
Wonder if the "weathermen" will be all over this?
5 posted on 09/20/2003 6:26:47 PM PDT by xzins (And now I will show you the most excellent way!)
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To: Carry_Okie
He said the Amazon people moved huge amounts of dirt to build roads and plazas. At one place, there is evidence that they even built a bridge spanning a major river. The people also altered the natural forest, planting and maintaining orchards and agricultural fields and the effects of this stewardship can still be seen today, Heckenberger said.

How about that...prehistoric amazon engineers!

6 posted on 09/20/2003 6:27:20 PM PDT by forester (Reduce paperwork -- put foresters back in the forest!)
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To: vannrox
Pre-colombian? Wide roads?
Expect an influx of LDS folks trying to buy up all the surrounding real estate. Not to mention buying up the original research to salt away in the temple vaults.
7 posted on 09/20/2003 6:30:24 PM PDT by EBITDA ("Open war is upon you, whether would risk it or not." (Aragorn))
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To: vannrox
So this proves nature can recover.
8 posted on 09/20/2003 6:41:17 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: rdb3; Behind Liberal Lines
This just in: Earth supports life. Film at 11.
9 posted on 09/20/2003 6:46:41 PM PDT by visualops (The only problem with the easy way out is the enemy has already mined it.)
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To: forester
Shocks the hell out of me.
10 posted on 09/20/2003 7:03:27 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (California! See how low WE can go!)
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To: vannrox
SPOTREP
11 posted on 09/20/2003 7:06:03 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: EBITDA
Note this is about 1000 years old. That's 700 years after the fall of Rome, and well into recorded history in Europe, and yet this civilization was "lost" to us.

The pyramids were built 2000 years before the Roman Empire. How many complex civilizations preceded the Egyptians?

By the way, the Egyptians "lost" the Sphinx for a while and had to dig it out of the sand around 1400 B.C.
12 posted on 09/20/2003 7:10:10 PM PDT by eno_ (Freedom Lite - it's almost worth defending)
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To: vannrox
I'm fascinated and concerned all at once. The Seattle Editors must be sleeping at the wheel to let this non-conforming bit of information.
13 posted on 09/20/2003 7:10:53 PM PDT by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig ("I've got a feeling you've got a heart like mine. Let's stomp some rat ba!!$, you can let it shine.")
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To: blam
.
14 posted on 09/20/2003 7:11:25 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (California! See how low WE can go!)
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To: vannrox
Hmmm, looks familiar: Ancient Amazon Settlements Uncovered.
15 posted on 09/20/2003 7:14:31 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan; Carry_Okie
"Hmmm, looks familiar: Ancient Amazon Settlements Uncovered."

Yup, sure does. Have you noticed how these guys (authors/writers) are completely unaware of the discoveries in the article below?

Rainforest Researchers Hit Paydirt (Farming In South America 11K Years Ago)

" A Brazilian-American archeological team believed terra preta, which may cover 10 percent of Amazonia, was the product of intense habitation by Amerindian populations who flourished in the area for two millennia, but they recently unearthed evidence that societies lived and farmed in the area up to 11,000 years ago."

16 posted on 09/20/2003 7:32:37 PM PDT by blam
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To: Carry_Okie
"Shocks the hell out of me."

1491, one of my favorite artricles.

17 posted on 09/20/2003 7:34:35 PM PDT by blam
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To: eno_
"By the way, the Egyptians "lost" the Sphinx for a while and had to dig it out of the sand around 1400 B.C."

The Egyptians didn't lose the Sphinx. They may have discovered it around 1400BC but someone else originally built it about 9,000 years ago acording to Dr Robert Schoch, geologist/geophysist

18 posted on 09/20/2003 7:39:24 PM PDT by blam
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To: vannrox
bump for later reading
19 posted on 09/20/2003 7:42:10 PM PDT by I'm ALL Right! (He is no fool who would give what he cannot keep to gain what he can never lose. - Jim Elliot)
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To: vannrox
Maybe they should read the accounts of the first spainiards who floated down from Peru to the mouth of the amazon looking for El Dorado? They claim the amazon nasin teemed with cities, towns and farms. Why didn't they read them? Sounds like a bunch of ignoramuses.
20 posted on 09/20/2003 7:46:07 PM PDT by Eternal_Bear
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To: Eternal_Bear
"They claim the amazon basin teemed with cities, towns and farms. Why didn't they read them? Sounds like a bunch of ignoramuses."

Yup. The Spanish named the river 'Amazon' because of the female warriors they saw along the river edges.

21 posted on 09/20/2003 7:52:50 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
The Amazon as a system of abandoned farms and orchards makes a lot more sense than the evolutionary model. There would be a top layer of super rich soil that would support more plant life than is typically sustainable, transpiring enormous amounts of water. As the system densified, that nutrient layer would be slowly consumed into a massive overstory that, when removed, would leave extremely poor soils. It makes total sense.

Look at any other long abandoned farm and note how dense the vegetation is.
22 posted on 09/20/2003 8:08:49 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (California! See how low WE can go!)
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To: vannrox
...the people demonstrated sophisticated levels of engineering, planning, cooperation and architecture in carving out of the tropical rain forest a system of interconnected villages and towns making up a widespread culture based on farming...

So sophisticated, in fact, that they developed both the mud hut and the spear. Simply amazing and much greater in depth and breadth than anything the silly old white man came up with.
23 posted on 09/20/2003 8:13:32 PM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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To: Doe Eyes
So this proves nature can recover.

LOL, only if you believe that humans (and their activities) are not a part of "nature".

24 posted on 09/20/2003 8:18:32 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: eno_
I think that the evidence is that they are far older than that. I suspect that the 1000 year reference is a typo.

All these civilizations were wiped out by diseases after contact between the "old" and "new" worlds, but were already very old at that time.
25 posted on 09/20/2003 8:25:37 PM PDT by John Valentine (In Seoul, and keeping one eye on the hills to the North...)
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To: vannrox
You mean to tell me they built a bridge and some roads without permits and an environmental impact study?? The sierra club and greenpeace are gonna be mad.
26 posted on 09/20/2003 8:31:32 PM PDT by Shmokey (Always be prepared)
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To: eno_
For a group desperately seeking archaeological credibility, dates are a minor detail.
27 posted on 09/20/2003 8:42:01 PM PDT by EBITDA ("Open war is upon you, whether you would risk it or not." (Aragorn))
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To: Shmokey; vannrox
You mean to tell me they built a bridge and some roads without permits and an environmental impact study?? The sierra club and greenpeace are gonna be mad.

Oh, they were. Only then they were known as the High Priests of Xliqupltextpletxptle which, roughly translated means: "Long haired, tie-dyed god with bloodshot eyes and wanders around, won't get a job who has a bitchin' case of the munchies".

But what really pi$$ed them off was that noboby could pronounce their name.

28 posted on 09/20/2003 8:47:33 PM PDT by uglybiker (Good friends bail you out of jail. True friends sit next to you and say: "That was cool!")
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To: John Valentine
All these civilizations were wiped out by diseases after contact between the "old" and "new" worlds, but were already very old at that time.

WRONG, many of these so-called civilizations were gone long before this time. I think that's why they call them lost.

29 posted on 09/20/2003 9:19:12 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: vannrox
next thing you know they are going to find an Edsel buried amongst the ruins that Henry Ford supposedly rode to our planet to escape from all the polution where he came from.......ARIANA was right those SUVs are the terror of the universe !!!!
30 posted on 09/20/2003 9:30:03 PM PDT by Searching4Justice
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
Early Whigs.
31 posted on 09/20/2003 9:34:34 PM PDT by Consort
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To: org.whodat; vannrox; Just another Joe
...many of these so-called civilizations were gone long before this time. I think that's why they call them lost.

I suspect it's all a part of a great conspiracy! I think they got "lost" because of an intentional bureaucratic cover-up. The world depends on experts! The delicate balance of the environmental movement would have been destroyed had word got out that Amazonica thrived until their government banned smoking and starting importing French bottled water, wine, pastries, cheese, and, worst of all, perfumes.
32 posted on 09/20/2003 9:41:54 PM PDT by Fawnn (God's in His Heaven (always true). All's right with the world (prayers needed for the last part))
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To: uglybiker
Oh, they were. Only then they were known as the High Priests of Xliqupltextpletxptle which, roughly translated means: "Long haired, tie-dyed god with bloodshot eyes and wanders around, won't get a job who has a bitchin' case of the munchies".

LOL!

33 posted on 09/20/2003 9:49:57 PM PDT by exDemMom (Michael Jackson for Governor!)
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To: AD from SpringBay
So sophisticated, in fact, that they developed both the mud hut and the spear. Simply amazing and much greater in depth and breadth than anything the silly old white man came up with.

Yup. Mabye they should've put forth the effort to develop guns instead of running around like a bunch of naked barbarians.

34 posted on 09/20/2003 9:50:42 PM PDT by adx (Why's it called "tourist season" if you ain't allowed to shoot 'em?)
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To: Thud
You will find this of interest.
35 posted on 09/20/2003 10:51:34 PM PDT by Dark Wing
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To: vannrox
Y'all are tryin' to educate me. I'm outta here.

BUMP! Good read.

36 posted on 09/21/2003 3:30:57 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Carry_Okie
A related article about the effect of disease transmission was published by Jared Diamond in Discover Magazine in 1992.

The Arrow of Disease
37 posted on 09/21/2003 10:35:42 AM PDT by PA Engineer
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To: org.whodat
I object to your use of the condescending term "so-called", but you are right is one sense; I never should have used the term "all". There were many civilzations that rose and fell in the millenia before contact.

I was actually referring to the civilzations in existence at contact. They ALL fell before smallpox, measles, viral hepatitis, and a few more diseases they could not resist.

This tragic outcome of contact is not the fault of the Europeans. It was something that was bound to happen sooner or later.

The result would have been identical if New World explorers had "discovered" the Old World, and taken the pathogens back with them.

38 posted on 09/21/2003 10:38:08 AM PDT by John Valentine (In Seoul, and keeping one eye on the hills to the North...)
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To: PA Engineer
Thanks!
39 posted on 09/21/2003 10:40:57 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (California! See how low WE can go!)
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To: John Valentine
This is covered in great detail, with much interesting speculation, in the Novel by Orson Scott Card,

Pastwatch: The Redemption of Christopher Columbus.

Well worth reading for anyone interested in this topic.
40 posted on 09/21/2003 10:55:22 AM PDT by MalcolmS (Only 364 More Days to TLAP 2004! Arrrr!)
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To: MalcolmS
Thanks, I had not read this particular Card novel, but I surely will.
41 posted on 09/21/2003 4:45:08 PM PDT by John Valentine (In Seoul, and keeping one eye on the hills to the North...)
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To: vannrox; blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; SunkenCiv; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; ...
This is an oldie. Thanks Vannrox.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

42 posted on 03/25/2005 7:58:06 PM PST by SunkenCiv (last updated my FreeRepublic profile on Friday, March 25, 2005.)
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To: vannrox
the population in one village and town complex was 2,500 to 5,000 people

Utopology suggests that the ideal utopian population would be 5000. Most utopias have fewer and fail for a variety of reasons. These villages seem to be planned, and that is interesting in itself. Perhaps they were built by someone other than what is considered local natives. They failed eventually even with the ideal population.

43 posted on 03/26/2005 10:02:47 AM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
Gods, Graves, Glyphs PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

44 posted on 05/14/2006 6:15:02 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
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Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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45 posted on 09/19/2008 1:45:27 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile hasn't been updated since Friday, May 30, 2008)
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