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Journalist claims proof of WMD lies (Report Aired in UK)
AAP ^ | 9/23/03 | Paul Mulvey in London

Posted on 09/22/2003 9:15:51 PM PDT by Mark Felton

AUSTRALIAN investigative journalist John Pilger says he has evidence the war against Iraq was based on a lie that could cost George W. Bush and Tony Blair their jobs and bring Prime Minister John Howard down with them.

A television report by Pilger aired on British screens overnight said US Secretary of State Colin Powell and National Security Adviser Condoleeza Rice confirmed in early 2001 that Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein had been disarmed and was no threat.

But after the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington on September 11 that year, Pilger claimed Rice said the US "must move to take advantage of these new opportunities" to attack Iraq and claim control of its oil.

Pilger uncovered video footage of Powell in Cairo on February 24, 2001 saying, "He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours."

Two months later, Rice reportedly said, "We are able to keep his arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt."

Powell boasted this was because America's policy of containment and its sanctions had effectively disarmed Saddam.

Pilger claims this confirms that the decision of US President George W Bush - with the full support of British Prime Minister Blair and Howard - to wage war on Saddam because he had weapons of mass destruction was a huge deception.

Pilger interviewed several leading US government figures in Washington but said he did not ask Powell or Rice to respond to his claims.

"I think it's very serious for Howard. Howard has followed the Americans and to a lesser degree Blair almost word for word," Pilger told AAP before his program was screened on ITV tonight.

"All Howard does is say `well it's not true' and never explains himself.

"I just don't believe you can be seen to be party to such a big lie, such a big deception and endure that politically.

"It simply can't be shrugged off and that's Howard's response.

"Blair has shrugged it off but Blair is deeply damaged. It's far from over here, there's a lot that is going to happen and much of it could wash onto Howard.

"And it's unravelling in America and Bush could lose the election next year.

"I've not seen political leaders survive when they've been complicit in such an open deception for so long."

Howard last week dismissed an accusation from Opposition Leader Simon Crean that he hid a warning from British intelligence that war against Iraq would heighten the terrorist threat to Australia.

In his report, Pilger interviews Ray McGovern, a former senior CIA officer and friend of Bush's father and ex-president, George Bush senior.

McGovern told Pilger that going to war because of weapons of mass destruction "was 95 per cent charade."

Pilger also claims that six hours after the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Centre, US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said he wanted to "hit" Iraq and allegedly said "Go Massive ... Sweep it all up. Things related and not."

He was allegedly talked down by Powell who said the American people would not accept an attack on Iraq without any evidence, so they opted to invade Afghanistan where Osama bin Laden had bases.

Pilger claimed war was set in train on September 17, 2001 when Bush signed a paper directing the Pentagon to explore the military options for an attack on Iraq.

AAP


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: aussienigerflap; australia; blair; bush; howard; iraq; iraqiwmd; johnhoward; johnpilger; libmyths; mcgovern; nigerflap; pilger; raymcgovern; tonyblair; vips; waronbush; wmd; wob
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"[Montesquieu wrote in his Spirit of Laws, X,c.2:] 'The right of natural defense carries along with it sometimes the necessity of attacking; as, for instance, when one nation sees that a continuance of peace will enable another to destroy her, and that to attack that nation instantly is the only way to prevent her own destruction." --Thomas Jefferson: copied into his Commonplace Book.
1 posted on 09/22/2003 9:15:51 PM PDT by Mark Felton
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To: Mark Felton
but bush never would lie, so this must be bogus right?
2 posted on 09/22/2003 9:19:36 PM PDT by isom35
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To: Mark Felton
John Pilger is anti war,an anti American and a left winger.
3 posted on 09/22/2003 9:19:49 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: Mark Felton
This thread won't last long...
4 posted on 09/22/2003 9:22:28 PM PDT by clamboat
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To: Mark Felton
They really need to come up with a new conspiracy theory - this one's getting tired.
5 posted on 09/22/2003 9:23:00 PM PDT by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, 'Zoolander')
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To: clamboat
Know thine enemy.
6 posted on 09/22/2003 9:23:37 PM PDT by Mark Felton ("All liberty flows from the barrel of a gun")
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To: Mark Felton
This guy is a second-rate Andrew Gilligan.
7 posted on 09/22/2003 9:25:32 PM PDT by aynrandfreak
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To: Mark Felton
If this is all the guy has, some video footage of Powell one month into his job and some quotes from Condi, and no real smoking gun, then this is more a wishful-thinking hit piece than a shocking expose.

Somehow, I doubt this is going to bring anything down, except readers' opinions of Pilger.

Mooing and chewing isn't enough. Americans demand beef.

8 posted on 09/22/2003 9:25:46 PM PDT by Imal (The deadliest weapon is patience.)
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To: aynrandfreak
Unlike Gilligan though he is quoting his sources overtly as Powell and RRice in public statements.

The questions are: How much traction will this get in the US? and How much damage will it do?

9 posted on 09/22/2003 9:27:16 PM PDT by Mark Felton ("All liberty flows from the barrel of a gun")
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: Mark Felton
Damning evidence I must say.

This could take Bush down.
11 posted on 09/22/2003 9:31:46 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: MEG33
Hmmmm? I never would have guessed ..??
12 posted on 09/22/2003 9:33:07 PM PDT by CyberAnt (America - The Greatest Nation on the Face of the Earth)
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To: isom35
Actually this guy seems far more likely to lie than Bush.

Pilger interviewed several leading US government figures in Washington but said he did not ask Powell or Rice to respond to his claims.

Rather gutless, apparently he is more interested in spectacular accusations than confronting the participants and getting the truth. So far it has all the signs of a cheap hit job.

13 posted on 09/22/2003 9:34:15 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Uno Animo
its John" THE WEST IS EVIL! AMERICA is EVIL!" Pilger, If his proof everything is a lie based on a video tape speech. the man has problems.
14 posted on 09/22/2003 9:34:50 PM PDT by Pikamax
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To: rwfromkansas
You'll make an excellent journalist, easily suckered by simple hype.
15 posted on 09/22/2003 9:35:25 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: rwfromkansas
Pilger is a spinner.Google his name and read his work.
16 posted on 09/22/2003 9:35:59 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: Mark Felton
Pilger interviewed several leading US government figures in Washington but said he did not ask Powell or Rice to respond to his claims.

Who were these "several leading US government figures in Washington"???

17 posted on 09/22/2003 9:38:56 PM PDT by Mo1 (http://www.favewavs.com/wavs/cartoons/spdemocrats.wav)
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To: rwfromkansas
You.believe.thi$???

$orry.about.typo$.my.keyboard.ju$t.died......grrrrr
18 posted on 09/22/2003 9:41:24 PM PDT by Mo1 (http://www.favewavs.com/wavs/cartoons/spdemocrats.wav)
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To: Diddle E. Squat
quote is pretty hard to dispute...Bush could still offer an explanation. I just said this appears damning and could take Bush down depending on how it is played in the press.
19 posted on 09/22/2003 9:42:06 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: Mark Felton
Actually Rice flew a SR71 to London 9/10/01 with secret plans to present to Tony Blair on attacking France after Bush knocked down the towers the next morning. But they were using one of Clarks old maps from his Bosnia days and ended up Afghanistan.

Actual photo of Rice flying the plane... proof positive.


20 posted on 09/22/2003 9:42:27 PM PDT by Liberal Bob (http://yourballot.com)
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To: Mo1
not everything he says, no. But video is video. Of course, I would have to see the video.
21 posted on 09/22/2003 9:43:43 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: MEG33
will have to check into it. I don't believe everything he said and would have to see the video, but if Powell's statement is actually on tape like that, that is not good for us.

However, the Rice statement was "reportedly" made....i.e....no proof. That probably is hooey.
22 posted on 09/22/2003 9:45:33 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: rwfromkansas
The reaction from the UK should be interesting.

I must defend the White House on this one though, well Powell more so than Condi.

Powell resigned during the first Clinton term. Had been out of the intelligence loop for a good 6 years, and just in office a month when he allegedly said this.

It still doesn't excuse him for saying it, if it wasn't true, but if we don't find WMD's, it is dreadful.

I don't see Powell going on tv saying he didn't know what he was talking about in Feb 2001, Saddam did have a robust program, one that we just can't find.

Obviously, the tape either exists or doesn't. We also need to see the context. I could construe his statement to saying that his technology is frozen. He isn't doing anything new, just some of the old crap. If this gets play here though, the White House will need to address this one.

23 posted on 09/22/2003 9:49:03 PM PDT by dogbyte12
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To: rwfromkansas
checking the brittish media. Ruh roh. Pilger in the Mirror has a column. Money quote is here:

Powell even boasted that it was the US policy of "containment" that had effectively disarmed the Iraqi dictator - again the very opposite of what Blair said time and again. On May 15 2001, Powell went further and said that Saddam Hussein had not been able to "build his military back up or to develop weapons of mass destruction" for "the last 10 years". America, he said, had been successful in keeping him "in a box".

If he has these statements on tape, it is very very very bad.

24 posted on 09/22/2003 9:59:41 PM PDT by dogbyte12
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To: dogbyte12
The disjunctive gap between the "quotes" and his characteriztions of what they say ought alert all that Pilger cannnot be trusted.
25 posted on 09/22/2003 10:00:04 PM PDT by per loin
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To: dogbyte12
I could see where one could get such an interpretation. I am hoping the stupid American press doesn't pick up on this. There is at least a chance they won't notice the report.
26 posted on 09/22/2003 10:00:17 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: Imal
Mooing and chewing isn't enough. Americans demand beef.

ROTFLMAO. Ain't it the truth though?

It never ceases to amaze me what kind of patent nonsense the supposedly better educated "Europeans" will accept.

27 posted on 09/22/2003 10:00:54 PM PDT by pierrem15
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To: rwfromkansas
Google "Inevitable Ring to the Unimaginable" written 9/13/2001.It's a "chickens came home to roost" piece about 9/11.
28 posted on 09/22/2003 10:02:24 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: Mark Felton
A liberal who hates George Bush and is a gay ostriche??? Say it ain't so Joey, say it ain't so...
29 posted on 09/22/2003 10:03:00 PM PDT by Porterville (I spell stuff wrong sometimes, get over yourself, you're not that great.)
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To: dogbyte12
He claims in the article that Rice said we should take advantage of Sept. 11 and get Iraq and then adds his own view that she meant get Iraq's oil. That could just be the reporter reporting on Pilger, but it seems to be Pilger's claim itself!

That is definitely a twisting of the statement, if the statement was ever made and there is no video of it unlike the Powell quote.
30 posted on 09/22/2003 10:03:52 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: Imal
this is more a wishful-thinking hit piece than a shocking expose.

Somehow, I doubt this is going to bring anything down, except readers' opinions of Pilger.

Mooing and chewing isn't enough. Americans demand beef.

Not much to add, well said.

31 posted on 09/22/2003 10:04:50 PM PDT by TheOtherOne
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To: dogbyte12
In his early September speech Bush didn't once mention weapons of mass destruction.

He'll be pummelled about the head and shoulders come crunch time in the primary election cycle. And he'll have little defense to counter it.
32 posted on 09/22/2003 10:09:41 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: Mark Felton
for later
33 posted on 09/22/2003 10:09:49 PM PDT by luckydevi
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To: MEG33
How awful.

I need to learn to be more cautious and to think things through before posting. I just basically read a bit into the article, gasped, and posted. Perhaps reading the entire article and then waiting 5 minutes to post would be a wise decision for me....:)

In reporting, I make sure to double-check facts before allowing something to run. But I could definitely use a "If your mother says she loves you, check it out" attitude on FR so I stop looking like a moron! I am way too gullible when not in reporting mode.

34 posted on 09/22/2003 10:10:04 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: rwfromkansas
You're welcome.
36 posted on 09/22/2003 10:11:21 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: Mark Felton
Pilger uncovered video footage of Powell in Cairo on February 24, 2001 saying, "He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours."

Interesting. This is what Powell had to say in March 2001:

*EPF402 03/08/01
Text: Powell on U.S. Policy toward Iraq
(U.N. sanctions, no-fly zone, support Iraqi opposition) (1540)

SEC. POWELL: There are several policies really. And let me answer your question by describing three baskets of things we do. First, we work within the UN system to make sure he has not developed and put into his inventory weapons of mass destruction. That is a result of the resolutions he agreed to at the end of the Gulf War. That has nothing to do with regime overthrow. That is not a UN objective, and it is not part of the oil-for-food program or the sanctions program. Link

Should I go look for Condi's "statement" as well?

37 posted on 09/22/2003 10:11:55 PM PDT by BigWaveBetty (Who doesn't love spreadable meat?)
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To: Diddle E. Squat
Thanks for getting on me. I am sure you don't believe me, but when I do do newspaper stories, I double-check the facts to ensure accuracy and get a second source for controversial things.

But, on FR, I am way too gullible and in many cases when something appears shocking at first, I just read a few lines and then post without really thinking like in this case. I need to stop doing that...

Have a great evening.
38 posted on 09/22/2003 10:13:13 PM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: Mark Felton; Mo1
Let me get this straight.....

Paul Mulvey claims that John Pilger claims he has evidence that will bring down the Bush Administration. Mulvey claims that Pilger has seen a video of a statement made by Powell on a video tape that Saddam capabilities have been deminished and pose no real threat, and after 9/11 Bush ordered the Pentagon to explore the possibility of an attack on Iraq?

Well geezy peezy, As if anyone didn't know that we knocked out 90% of Saddam's capabilities during the 90's and that the President should explore the possibility of attacking every middle eastern country after 9/11

What a crock of sh*t this article is, the author nor the 3rd party writer didn't even interview a single person in the Bush Administration. PISS POOR JOURNALISM at best

39 posted on 09/22/2003 10:15:20 PM PDT by MJY1288 (Who Would the Terrorist Vote For ??????)
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To: rwfromkansas
Hey, I'm probably too hard on you and react too often, but it is because I sense that you have a good heart and tons of potential. Not that I am an expert or anything. We really do need good honest conservative journalists, and I sense that you will continue to work hard and further develop excellent instincts, the kind that only come with time and experience. Good luck.
40 posted on 09/22/2003 10:17:36 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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"He was allegedly talked down by Powell who said the American people would not accept an attack on Iraq without any evidence, so they opted to invade Afghanistan where Osama bin Laden had bases. "

Absurd...



41 posted on 09/22/2003 10:18:05 PM PDT by At _War_With_Liberals (Celebrate Globalism)
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To: isom35
[B]ut bush never would lie, so this must be bogus right?

What does an arguably bogus story have to do with Bush's veracity?

42 posted on 09/22/2003 10:18:43 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

To: kingoftide
Hey fruity boy/girl/it/nogender go play with traffic, your an idiot-anomaly a to ears suspended outside of a vacuum.... Bush will win again, and the Christians will rise to smote you back into the realm of the earth were drugs and pornography proliferate with your special brand of herpes, mixed with the clap. Keep your liberal trap for people who can't read and right, and tell Gramsche to pound sand.
44 posted on 09/22/2003 10:20:27 PM PDT by Porterville (I spell stuff wrong sometimes, get over yourself, you're not that great.)
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To: kingoftide; Admin Moderator
Actually there is another Tom Petty song that is far more appropriate, which you will learn to your sorrow.

'We won't back down'

See ya troll, how many times have you been banned today? Feel free to answer me with your next freepname, since you'll probably be gone before I finish this post.

45 posted on 09/22/2003 10:20:38 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: kingoftide
Just wondering, do you have a toothey ache?
47 posted on 09/22/2003 10:23:16 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Porterville
Damn, write=right... and I was loving the rant, but beer and poetic harmony don't mix, sorta like a liberal and a pig, wait that makes sense, like a liberal sleeping with a cow in the oval office, wait that makes sense too. Okay, a first lady who is a dyke who sleeps with Janet Reno... wait..
48 posted on 09/22/2003 10:23:42 PM PDT by Porterville (I spell stuff wrong sometimes, get over yourself, you're not that great.)
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To: kingoftide
He's taunting you, troll.
49 posted on 09/22/2003 10:24:27 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Mark Felton
But after the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington on September 11 that year, Pilger claimed Rice said the US "must move to take advantage of these new opportunities" to attack Iraq and claim control of its oil.

Tinfoil hat alert! When I can go to my local Chevron and get free gas, I'll believe this. Let's take a look some of the other emissions from the genius John Pilger (Hidden Agendas: The Films and Writing of John Pilger):

1) Who are the Extremists: Writing in the Daily Mirror, John Pilger identifies the root cause of the bloody bombing of the UN compound in Baghdad, which Washington and London have blamed this on 'extremists from outside'. What they don't say, of course, is that the unprovoked and illegal invasion of Iraq, based on deception and causing thousands of deaths, was the work of extremists from outside - Bush and Blair; and it is the consequences of this crime that have beckoned other extremists to bring their jihad to Iraq.

2) Breaking the Silence: [more like breaking wind, but anyway] Pilger decides that "In 'liberated' Afghanistan, America has its military base and pipeline access, while the people have the warlords who are, says one women, 'in many ways worse than the Taliban'". [Pilger has a major case of "pipeline envy"]

Blah, blah, blah. Yawn. Pilger is simply a Noam Chomsky wannabe. He and his twin brother, Robert Fisk, are mental midgets. Their greatest desire in life is to get together for a menage-a-trois with Arafat.

50 posted on 09/22/2003 10:26:52 PM PDT by mikegi
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