Muslim Child-Rearing Practices Come into Question

Columbus Dispatch ^ | 9/23/03/8/03/03 | Daniel Pipes/Columbus Dispatch

[Kenny Bunk]

The Columbus paper reports on a court case today in Ohio that has larger implications for parent-daughter relations in Muslim families living in the West. The facts of the case are thus: When Mohamed Shide, 38, a Somali immigrant who arrived to the United States in 1998, went to pick up his sixth-grade daughter, Rahma Rage, outside Eastmoor Middle School, he saw her standing with a boy. On getting home, Shide slapped Rage and put a pocketknife to her throat, then threatened to kill her with a butcher knife from the kitchen - or so Rage told an assistant principal the next day, leading to the arrest of her father and her being removed from her home, then placed with a non-Muslim American foster mother.

What makes this incident of such interest is the response of Rage's family and the Somali community, which insisted that Rage made up the above story as a way to leave her parents' house and jump feet-first into U.S. culture. Shide testified at the trial that Rage was watching some "bad sex movies" and listening to "bad rap music" on the sly, as well as adopting such reprehensible American habits as talking back to her parents and not cleaning up after herself. The defense also insisted that Rage took advantage of living with a non-Muslim family to act like a U.S. teen-ager. "She was wearing a dress that I have never seen, and it was very short," Rahma's mother testified. "Her stomach was naked."

Jurors reached a split decision after six hours of deliberation on August 1. They found Shide not guilty of aggravated menacing, could not decide on an assault charge and a domestic violence charge, and found him guilty of threatening his daughter so she thought she was in danger. Shide was fined $100, given a 30-day suspended jail sentence, and put on probation for 13 months. Further, he is prohibited form meeting with Rahma except with her consent.

The Somali community in Columbus responded with alarm to the verdict and rallied around Shide. It worried, first, how the verdict would undermine parental authority: "Many families are hesitant to discipline their children because they could call 911," noted Hassan Omar, president of the Somali Community Association of Ohio.

Second, it feared other children would follow Rage's method of fleeing the restrictions of her parents' home. "There is a strong belief that this will start to happen-and start to happen fast," fretted a family friend.

Third, the community is upset over the shift in power underway. Maryan Warsame, director of the Somali Women's Association, noted that because they speak English and understand American culture, children "think they are better than their parents."

A family friend summed up the extent of the distress: "It's going to destroy the Somali community."

Pipes' Comments: Somali parents are hardly the first immigrants to find their child-rearing mores in conflict with American customs but it could be that no parents will experience so profound a disconnect as do they.

Rahma Rage was only threatened with murder; other daughters in the West have been killed for "honor"-related issues (note the infamous cases of Palestina Isa in St. Louis and Fadime Sahindal in Sweden.

Finally, this incident points to just how unpredictable the future mores of the American Muslim community are, for they depend on the Rahma Rages, now so much in flux.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Kenny Bunk]

Muslim attitudes towards female children come before the public, if at all, in the ER and in the courts.

Welfare dollars are flowing across the cultural divide between the West and Islam to support practices like polygamy, child marriage, and female circumcision.

[Sacajaweau]

Hey, that's their religion. We can't interfere.

[Bikers4Bush]

"It's going to destroy the Somali community."

The Somali community is back in Africa. If that's the type of life you want for yourself and your children then go back there.

Otherwise shut the hell up and stop treating your women like crap.

[hang 'em]

WTF are Somali muslims doing in this country anyway?

[LiteKeeper]

INTREP - Religion of Peace

[NotQuiteCricket]

"It's going to destroy the Somali community."

Good. (I'm smirking)

This is going to be interesting. I mean, here we have the leftits sacred concept of "multi-culturisim" vs. parental rights.

AND: Who gives a flying leap about the Somali community? Hows about the American community? How about America? Preserving those American values "liberty and justice for all?" Girls, who are threatened, because their parents come from a 3rd world country, should notify the authorities. The more who can be removed from their families, and placed with American families the better.

[BeerSwillr]

hesitant to discipline their children
slapped Rage and put a pocketknife to her throat, then threatened to kill her with a butcher knife from the kitchen
This is discipline? Whew, these people have serious problems.

[BenLurkin]

"Rage was watching some "bad sex movies" and listening to "bad rap music" on the sly, as well as adopting such reprehensible American habits as talking back to her parents and not cleaning up after herself. The defense also insisted that Rage took advantage of living with a non-Muslim family to act like a U.S. teen-ager. "She was wearing a dress that I have never seen, and it was very short," Rahma's mother testified. "Her stomach was naked."

children "think they are better than their parents."

These folks are going to be sorry they came to the U.S. We're not called "The Great Satan" for nothing.

[ClearCase_guy]

The Somali community is back in Africa. If that's the type of life you want for yourself and your children then go back there. Otherwise shut the hell up and stop treating your women like crap.

I think that sums it up. America really does have Freedom of Religion, but we also have laws. India used to have (some say it still does) a religion called Thug that calls for human sacrifice. We don't allow it in the US. Some religions allow use of illegal drugs -- but the law says you can't sample the stuff willy-nilly and use a religious cover for it.

If Muslims (or anyone) violate US law (putting a knife to someone's throat and threatening to kill them would seem to fit in this category) then they can and should be accountable to civil authorities. Their religion should not enter into the matter at all.

[Kenny Bunk]

...and now the score from the USA:

Muhammed: (may Peace be upon Him): 0

Brittany Spears, MTV, the GAP. etc: 1

[RonF]

Third, the community is upset over the shift in power underway. Maryan Warsame, director of the Somali Women's Association, noted that because they speak English and understand American culture, children "think they are better than their parents."

This phenomenon has been seen in a lot of immigrant communities in America. The kids learn English, so they can get information, find their way around, and get things done in both the private and public sector. They end up with a lot more control over how their family interacts with people and institutions than they would in English-speaking families, and the teacher-student relationship that is normally parent to child is reversed. This upsets the family structure. In some cases, it destroys it (kids running wild in the streets, parents can do nothing). In other cases, the parents go overboard in trying to retain control.

Let's not forget that this is a kid testifying against her parents. There could be some false accusations here.

[doc30]

This is the true road to cultural assimilation. The immigrants still carry their customs, but their children interact with American kids and pick up American culture. THeir grandkids will be 100% American assimilated. I've often heard that it is the 3rd generation that is completely Americanized.

[Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek]

To Somali, and other, immigrants:
Best way to avoid this sort of official harassment is to home school the kids. Avoid the welfare officials as well as the school officials by avoiding "welfare".

If the father is threatening the life of his children, he should face the same penalty as any other murderous thug but, in general, barring proof of criminal behavior, I will defer to parental judgement vs the judgement of agents of the state.

[dinasour]

children "think they are better than their parents."

Our culture expects this, and when they get out on their own, they are expected to prove it. Many do.

Welcome to America.

[wizardoz]

These folks are going to be sorry they came to the U.S. We're not called "The Great Satan" for nothing.

ROTFLMAO!!

[Sender]

Meanwhile, Wesley Clark finally opens his mouth and proclaims that we are unfairly persecuting these immigrants.

[Prodigal Son]

WTF are Somali muslims doing in this country anyway?

Same thing as Indian Hindus?

[Rytwyng]

Someone should have warned them:

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE
YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED

[Centurion2000]

The Somali community in Columbus responded with alarm to the verdict and rallied around Shide. It worried, first, how the verdict would undermine parental authority

Get used to it islamic scumbags .... just wait until your women figure out the divorce court advantage they have .... you're TOAST.

[radiohead]

The Somali community is back in Africa

Absolutely right. I am getting pretty sick of people thinking they are Somalis in America, for example, as opposed to Americans of Somali descent. Psychologically, there is a vast difference between the two ways of thinking.

People who aren't willing to see themselves as Americans need to rethink the immigration thing.

[Kenny Bunk]

....just wait until your women figure out the divorce court advantage ...

If the dude has four wives, can he be divorced four times?

[justshutupandtakeit]

Jack-booted thugs on a rampage alert. How can we support the Eviiil State's interfering with the parents' right to cut their childrens' throats when they wish? Isn't there something in the constitution that would prevent this miscarriage of justice? States' rights, the 10th amendment? Something? Anything? Oooh, the humanity.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Riiight, this is just SO unbelievable. This must be Ashcroft's fault for victimizing the Religion of Peace.

[Becki]

The Somali community in Columbus responded with alarm to the verdict and rallied around Shide. It worried, first, how the verdict would undermine parental authority: "Many families are hesitant to discipline their children because they could call 911," noted Hassan Omar, president of the Somali Community Association of Ohio.

Welcome to America. We've been saying this for year!

Becki

[acs]

"These folks are going to be sorry they came to the U.S. We're not called "The Great Satan" for nothing. "

Interesting retort!!
I have seen lots of foreign people who come here, and their children were born here, but they want their children to live like they were in their parents's home country. What kind of ridiculous nonsense is that? Why not just stay at home?

[MissouriForBush]

In Europe, the third generation of Muslims is no different from their parents and grandparents. The hatred and vulgarity continues to be handed down over the generations. In Germany, for example, Muslims purposely keep a totally separate culture from the Germans and there is very little interaction between the two cultures. Muslims use their own grocery stores, cafes, etc., in order to limit contact with non-Muslim Europeans. So who are the segregationists here?

The vulgarity is on display daily in all sorts of little ways, whether it's Muslim men refusing to move on a sidewalk to allow a Western woman to pass (without having to walk down into the street and face oncoming traffic) or Muslim teen girls wearing tight black headscarves and equally tight jeans yelling "F--k Americans!" to an American woman (me) on a German street when they heard her speaking English.

[Helms]

What you have said should be heeded as a warning, especially with the advent of so called multiculturalism.

Its all a recipe for possible disaster (not to mention a large democreat voting block).

I believe that there will be an intensification of RESENTMENT when Islam meets Postmodernism.

The Norman Rockwell of the Modern 50's through early 70's has morphed into :

[Bon mots]

What's wrong with the way muslims raise their kids?

[pgyanke]

Bottom left: Muslim or Jewish? They are firing M-16s... not the usual choice of the discriminating Jihadi.

[Bon mots]

They're Muslims. That photo is from the IDF's webpage.
Israel actually gave such weapons to the Palestinian police and security forces. What were they thinking??

[Leatherneck_MT]

What I find absolutely mind boggling is that Liberals who allegedly champion "Women's rights" are not up in arms about this influx of these maggots.

Can't you see it now? Shia is declared the law in America and Gloria Swanson is arrested and beheaded in yankee stadium.

In their own words are the seeds of their destruction.

[Centurion2000]

If the dude has four wives, can he be divorced four times?

I would not wish that on my worst enemy.

Nothing is too good to waste on an islamicist.

[jokar]

We're not called "The Great Satan" for nothing.

That would be a great tag line.

[per loin]

I do not believe that the slaughter of our boys in Magadishu is sufficient reason to award all these Somalis with the right to move to America.

[nosofar]

Jack-booted thugs on a rampage alert. How can we support the Eviiil State's interfering with the parents' right to cut their childrens' throats when they wish? Isn't there something in the constitution that would prevent this miscarriage of justice? States' rights, the 10th amendment? Something? Anything? Oooh, the humanity.

Haven't you heard? It's the 'right to privacy'.

[freeangel]

You got there before I did. Perhaps that was the "bad" movie she was watching.

[Kenny Bunk]

Loin, the Somalis who are being inflicted upon Columbus, OH and Lewiston-Auburn, ME by the UN and our government, are generally refugee tribesmen who were displaced by other warring factions in the ongoing tribal struggles in Somalia and the war against the exopansion of Marxist Ethipia. Some were farmers, but others were from tribes whose main occupation was border raiding, camel rustling, and general banditry. Sort of Islam's answer to the Chiricaha Apaches, without the charm and with some really bizarre ritual tribal scarring. I do not think it unfair to point out that they are primitive. Speaking from direct observation, they have been the source of much friction and even more expense in Maine. For one thing, they are polygamous and burden local schools with a huge number of children. Female school staffs find the male children among them are very hard to discipline.

There is another, very much smaller group of Somali political exiles, who are more or less educated and sophisticated, who were the ruling elite under the UN Mandate before independence, which was the last time the place was functional, at least in the beautifully planned and situated capital city.

I did get a look at the place before they wrecked it after independence. We share some of the blame. because we dumped an enormous amount of weaponry there, so the Somalis could counter the Cubans and the Marxist Ethiopians who were trying to take over. I do not know whose idea it was to move these folks here. But it is not a good one.