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History Repeated? (Cavuto)
FOX News ^ | 09/24/03 | Neil Cavuto

Posted on 09/25/2003 6:07:00 AM PDT by abnegation

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:37:16 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

He never succeeded at winning over his critics. Some called him bombastic, others a war-monger.

He warned about terrorism, but few listened.

He warned about a foreign ogre, but few seemed to care.

He talked of not confronting the enemy and about the dangers of kowtowing to the enemy. An enemy that would sooner rip out your heart than let you even think he had one of his own.


(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: cavuto

1 posted on 09/25/2003 6:07:00 AM PDT by abnegation
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Like I said: It's the voters, stupid.
2 posted on 09/25/2003 6:09:03 AM PDT by Consort
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To: The Californian; Terpfen; Sparta; iceskater; mass55th; alnick; buzzyboop; MoJo2001; lysie; vandy; ..
Cavuto ping!

Sorry there have been no Cavuto posts from me for awhile. I've not been able to post due to a puppy with a broken leg, but she will all better and I am back.
3 posted on 09/25/2003 6:09:32 AM PDT by abnegation (A closed mouth gathers no feet.)
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To: abnegation
Oh, thanks so much for the Cavuto post! He's been one of my favorites for some time now.

P.S. Love your tagline. ;-D
4 posted on 09/25/2003 6:11:36 AM PDT by Judith Anne (Cyanide, mercury, and botulinum toxin are medically and industrially useful friends to mankind.)
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To: Consort
It's the voters, stupid.

History will also show that as soon as Hitler was defeated the voters kicked his arse out in favor of socialism.

5 posted on 09/25/2003 6:12:19 AM PDT by Semper Paratus
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To: abnegation
Comparing the Iraq war to WW2 is just plain ridiculous.
6 posted on 09/25/2003 6:12:55 AM PDT by alpowolf
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To: abnegation
Bush is nowhere near to becoming abandoned by his followers.

The American people are waking up to the Media's propaganda. They know there is another side, another perspective that is supportive of the President. They are also aware that the threat has not been extinguished. The American people are now awake and vigilant.

Cavuto got it wrong this time because he cannot help but be influenced from time to time by New York journalistic circles.
7 posted on 09/25/2003 6:13:57 AM PDT by Hostage
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To: alpowolf
What about comparing WWII to the war on terror? Is that ridiculous?
8 posted on 09/25/2003 6:14:59 AM PDT by manna
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To: Semper Paratus
...as soon as Hitler was defeated the voters kicked his arse out in favor of socialism.

The same thing happened here in '92. After Saddam was defeated, the voters kicked Bush 41 out in favor of socialism.

9 posted on 09/25/2003 6:17:25 AM PDT by Consort
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To: abnegation
The man who originally took on terror, would later be thrown out of office by the very people who rallied around him because of terror.
No, I'm not talking about a president named Bush. I'm talking about a prime minister named Winston Churchill.

Winston Churchill was tossed out of office by the Brits shortly after WWII ended ... 1947 if my memory serves me correctly. However, it wasn't many years later (in the mid- 50's) when the Brits began to recognize him for the great wartime leader he was and re-elected him Prime Minister. Churchill got a well deserved second chance, Bush won't.

10 posted on 09/25/2003 6:19:21 AM PDT by BluH2o
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To: manna
Completely. It's a different war requiring a different response. Fighting it as though it were WW2 will guarantee that we will lose.
11 posted on 09/25/2003 6:22:55 AM PDT by alpowolf
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To: alpowolf
I'm not referring to the strategy and tactics but to the size and scope of the war on terror. In that way, I believe it can be compared to WWII.

Iraq is just one theater of operations, not the entire war. I think Cavuto may have been referring to the entire war on terror not, as you seem to be implying, just the battle in Iraq.
12 posted on 09/25/2003 6:26:48 AM PDT by manna
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To: abnegation
Difference is, in this case the ogre had already attacked when Bush rallied a response--and the al Quaeda threat is not susceptible to final conquest in 3 years. It won't go with a bang but with a whimper. Even after Afghanistan and Iraq, the Axis of Evil is still in business.

It's like having an election after the fall of Italy but with the Nazis and the Japanese still very much in business.

It's not like political parties never changed any other positions, of course--

for example Jack Kemp's reversal of Republican policy from "balanced budget uber alles" to "tax rates must be reduced for the health of the economy"
--but has anyone else noticed that the Democratic Party has switched from internationalism to pacifism and de facto isolationism?
13 posted on 09/25/2003 6:27:44 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The everyday blessings of God are great--they just don't make "good copy.")
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To: abnegation; Hostage
Can you ping me to your Cavuto posts? Thanks for this posting, and I'm hoping your pup recovers soon from his broken leg.

Hostage, I sure hope you're right about the voters staying awake. One would think we had learned a long time ago that appeasement does not work.
14 posted on 09/25/2003 6:28:49 AM PDT by baseballmom (Baseball is life - the rest is just details)
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To: manna
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
15 posted on 09/25/2003 6:32:59 AM PDT by mathluv
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To: Hostage
The American people are waking...

Have you ever seen the movie, Ship of Fools?

16 posted on 09/25/2003 6:40:37 AM PDT by Consort
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To: abnegation
Funny he should say that.

I'm re-reading Churchill's History of World War II.

The first volume discusses, among other things, the Italian invasion and conquest of Abyssinia.

The parallels to the ineffectiveness of the League of Nations with respect to that situation to the ineffectiveness of the UN with respect to Iraq are nothing short of amazing.

Both bodies apparently studiously avoided taking any actions which could have possibly been effective in preventing each subsequent conflict.

17 posted on 09/25/2003 6:44:34 AM PDT by George Smiley (Is the RKBA still a right if you have to get the government's permission before you can exercise it?)
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To: manna
The concept of a "War on Terror" is essentially flawed -- terror is a tactic, a technique. I'd really prefer if the administration would just come out and admit this is a war on islamic extremism/expansionism. But that would tick off our "allies" like the Saudis and Pakistanis.
18 posted on 09/25/2003 6:44:46 AM PDT by LN2Campy
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To: abnegation



19 posted on 09/25/2003 6:55:54 AM PDT by putupon (Hey, you see anything here? Me neither.)
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To: manna
The realities of rebuilding after a war all but wiped out the glories of winning that war.

That sounds like a reference to Iraq, to me. No matter. Use whatever words you want: size, scope, strategy, tactics. This is different.

Cavuto's attempt to liken Bush to Churchill, like the wrong and overused attempts to liken Saddam to Hitler, are simply emotional manipulation with no basis in fact.

20 posted on 09/25/2003 6:59:18 AM PDT by alpowolf
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To: abnegation
Thanks for the ping.

Hope your puppy is doing better.
21 posted on 09/25/2003 7:06:51 AM PDT by iceskater
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To: abnegation
On another thread from the Washington Times:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/988979/posts

The commentary by Doug Saunders of Toronto's Globe and Mail began in a fashion familiar to readers and viewers of the Western news media:

"Six months before, the world had cheered as the statues of the dictator came crashing down. The Americans had seemed heroic. But now things were going very badly. The occupation was chaotic, the American soldiers were hated and they were facing threats from the surviving supporters of the dictator, whose whereabouts were uncertain.

"Washington seemed unwilling to pay the enormous bill for reconstruction, and the president didn't appear to have any kind of workable plan to manage the transition to democracy. European allies, distrustful of the arrogant American outlook, were wary of cooperating."

Doug Saunders was writing not of Iraq in September, 2003. He was writing about Germany in November 1945. His article provided something rare in the news media today: perspective.
22 posted on 09/25/2003 7:10:56 AM PDT by Republican Red
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To: BluH2o
Actually, the Tories lost the general election of 1945, leading to Clement Attlee's ascension as PM. Churchill kept his seat in Parliament and re-assumed the PM after the general election of 1951.

Churchill's defeat was largely unrelated to his war policy -- it was his advocacy of a grim, wartime domestic austerity policy that did him in. Cavuto's analogy is actually even more apt than I think even he realizes.

23 posted on 09/25/2003 7:17:29 AM PDT by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Republicam)
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To: Consort
Yes I have but there is no parallel here. I saw the advent of FNC in 1996. It has steadily grown adsorbing market share.

Here in the liberal Democrat fiefdom of Seattle, I actually see people talking about what they saw on FNC, or better, presenting the "other side" of the debate. When I say waking up, I mean they are aware that the NY news establishment attempts to "spin" their daily thought process.

People here are not abandoning the War on Terror, ergo President Bush. They don't like any of the Democrat contenders and I have even witnessed people acknowledge they were duped by Clinton during his reign. I am talking about the average mind controlled robots that Liberal Democrats feed off here in Seattle. There's a stirring up of a new awareness.

Some people that are hardcore liberals are pissed that they are losing their "social fashionability". Oh they still enjoy the mindset that Republicans are air-polluting Baptist fascists, but they (the liberals) are losing their favored status.

The local media here is losing their influence. For example, they tried to pump the Latte Tax, serving in effect as paid advertisements for the tax. Although I expected them to do so, I was still surprised at how low and uninformed they think viewers are. They have been losing credibility for several years now.

These are anecdotes for sure but I'll take them, they are more frequent and IMO that is a dramatic significant development.

The Democrat message is wrong and lacks momentum. Truly their chickens are coming home to roost.

That's why I sommented on Cavuto this morning. He must be so immersed in NYC cafe talk as to believe the propaganda that Bush is spiraling down.

IMO Bush is on the ascent. It is only a matter of time that his foreign policy opponents rethink their positions and get on his bus. And when the NYC crowd try to forge a "Bush vs. the World" contest, who are they refrreig to as "the World"? Is it France-Germany-Belgium-Russia-Kofo Annan? Well the reality is that the President has narrowed that "World" to France-Belgium-Annan and Annan better be thinking how he will continue his life style after his UN paycheck stops coming.

Bush will not only win the foreign poliicy debate, he will emerge as a true world leader because he is unwavering, and he is bottomline right.

Bush will also benefit from technological innovation in the energy industry. His administration will oversee a transformation to a hydrogen economy. No, this is not blue sky BS, it's real this time. Do some google searches on automotive fuel cells, General Motors, Honda, Chevron-Texaco, Dutch Shell. Propane-Hydrogen Fuel Cells are the fallout from the electric car debacle experiments, it is their discovery that will take a grip in the next three years and then extend to transforming the energy infrastucture. Put it this way, those unleaded gas stations will all add a fuel cell pump, either sepcial formulations of NG or Propane. Unleaded gas will start to take a backseat like the leaded gas of the past. And that's not all, take a look at low emission power plants for industrial energy production, and portable residential fuel cell energy production.

Bottomline is that the economy and foreign policy under President Bush is going to rock.

Cavuto needs to get his big round babyface out of his ass, get out of the Big Apple and see what is going on elsewhere. He shouldn't rely on the merry-go-round of one journalist telling another journalist an opinion and yet another journalist calling its news or at least "public sentiment".
24 posted on 09/25/2003 7:20:02 AM PDT by Hostage
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To: putupon
The last picture is broken . Here it is


25 posted on 09/25/2003 7:27:25 AM PDT by Kaslin (Does anyone have a tagline they can spare?)
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To: Kaslin
Thanks, that one definitely belongs
26 posted on 09/25/2003 7:36:25 AM PDT by putupon (Hey, you see anything here? Me neither.)
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To: abnegation
"I've not been able to post due to a puppy with a broken leg,..."

That must be some weird ISP you've got there.

27 posted on 09/25/2003 7:48:07 AM PDT by Redbob
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To: alpowolf
not really. WW2 started in the Saar when the french retreated as the germans marched in. most wars start with one battle.
28 posted on 09/25/2003 7:51:35 AM PDT by camas
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To: abnegation
I love Cavuto! he's smart and down to earth and CUTE! ;)
29 posted on 09/25/2003 7:54:02 AM PDT by lawgirl (RIP John Ritter)
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To: Redbob
She had "external hardware". That meant following her around 24/7 to make sure she didn't catch it on anything. When she slept, I had to work (yes I work). Work comes before play if I want to eat.
30 posted on 09/25/2003 7:54:51 AM PDT by abnegation (A closed mouth gathers no feet.)
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To: camas
By that logic, most wars are the same as WW2.
31 posted on 09/25/2003 7:58:08 AM PDT by alpowolf
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To: Hostage
Yes I have but there is no parallel here.

The next election will tell us a lot about "the people". It's the voters.

32 posted on 09/25/2003 7:59:35 AM PDT by Consort
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To: Consort
Like I said: It's the voters, stupid.

Yup, but maybe it should read, "It's the stupid voters."

33 posted on 09/25/2003 8:04:03 AM PDT by StriperSniper (The slippery slope is getting steeper.)
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To: StriperSniper
Yes (I was trying to be diplomatic).
34 posted on 09/25/2003 8:05:52 AM PDT by Consort
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To: Consort
Are you trying to make a profound statement? I mean my dog probbly could have figured that one out.

Why should we care what Cavuto tells us about what New Yorkers think? New Yorkers elected HRC, or at least the unions there were did a bangup job on stuffing ballot boxes. Any state that would do that are controlled by people without conscience. Cavuto is acting as their mouthpiece.
35 posted on 09/25/2003 8:23:17 AM PDT by Hostage
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To: Hostage
Are you trying to make a profound statement? I mean my dog probbly could have figured that one out.

That's the way it is, so start paying more attention to what your dog, Probbly, says. And Cavuto is smart and articulate and he makes more sense than many of the other pundits combimed.

36 posted on 09/25/2003 8:32:21 AM PDT by Consort
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To: alpowolf
We'll have to agree to disagree about the Cavuto article. Have a nice day.
37 posted on 09/25/2003 8:43:27 AM PDT by manna
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To: LN2Campy
How would our position improve by doing as you suggest? In real terms, not just a feel-good reaction.

That's a serious question. I'm not being sarcastic.
38 posted on 09/25/2003 8:45:53 AM PDT by manna
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To: Consort
You can pay attention to my dog since you both appear to be mentally matched.

I like Cavuto but in his daily chore of generating something informative and valuable, his comparison of Bush-Churchill is a dud.

Cavuto is not perfect. If he reads these forums, he can learn something.
39 posted on 09/25/2003 10:15:43 AM PDT by Hostage
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To: putupon
You are welcome. I just copied the URL and pasted it in the address bar of a new window. Then came up with the Google image search and just clicked on the picture that was displayed. The result was the picture
40 posted on 09/25/2003 12:06:44 PM PDT by Kaslin (Does anyone have a tagline they can spare?)
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To: Cincinatus
Cavuto's analogy is actually even more apt than I think even he realizes.

Well, there is a parallel, no question. However, as statesmen and war time leader Bush can't hold a candle to Sir Winston Churchill. Churchill is in a league of his own ... I'm sure Bush would be flattered by the comparison to Churchill, after all, Churchill is a giant among statesmen and world leaders by any standard. In fact, Bush has taken his lead from the master ... whom he holds in high esteem.

41 posted on 09/25/2003 5:25:21 PM PDT by BluH2o
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To: Hostage
You can pay attention to my dog since you both appear to be mentally matched.

They say that dogs resemble their owners. You've seen the side-by-side pictures, haven't you?

42 posted on 09/25/2003 7:47:05 PM PDT by Consort
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To: abnegation
Glad to hear your puppy is better...Thanks for the ping!
43 posted on 09/26/2003 1:24:35 AM PDT by lainde
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To: StarFan; Dutchy; Timesink; Gracey; Alamo-Girl; RottiBiz; FoxGirl; Mr. Bob; xflisa; dixierose; ...
FoxFan ping!

Please FReepmail me if you want on or off my FoxFan list. *Warning: This can be a high-volume ping list at times.

44 posted on 09/26/2003 10:01:55 PM PDT by nutmeg ("The DemocRATic party...has been hijacked by a confederacy of gangsters..." - Pat Caddell, 11/27/00)
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To: nutmeg
Thanks for the heads up!
45 posted on 09/27/2003 7:34:37 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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