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Tribal leaders fire back at Schwarzenegger over 'fair share' ad
San Diego Union - Tribune ^ | 9/25/03 | AP - Riverside

Posted on 09/25/2003 9:42:59 AM PDT by NormsRevenge

RIVERSIDE --- Tribal leaders, stung by Arnold Schwarzenegger's criticism of their financial support for his political rivals, said the gubernatorial candidate got it wrong, that they do their fair share to help California's economy.

"He needs to do his homework. This is all new to him," said Michael Lombardi, chairman of the gaming commission for the Augustine Casino near Coachella. "We are paying our fair share."

In an ad criticizing other candidates for taking money from Indian gambling interests, Schwarzenegger says of the tribes: "Their casinos make billions, yet pay no taxes and virtually nothing to the state. ... It's time for them to pay their fair share."

As sovereign governments, tribes do not pay taxes and they pay nothing into the state's general fund. They do pay about $130 million a year to two special funds, however, one for tribes without casinos and one to address the impact of casinos on state and local governments.

By not mentioning the two funds, Schwarzenegger's ad "falsely states that tribes pay virtually nothing," said Waltona Manion, a spokeswoman for the Morongo Band of Mission Indians near Cabazon.

Schwarzenegger campaign spokesman Todd Harris defended the ad.

"What all voters and all tribes should understand is that Arnold Schwarzenegger respects tribal sovereignty and that he is not attempting to interfere with the Indians' rights to operate casinos, but that he is going to seek fair and equitable ways ... to allow for all Californians to help the state, particularly during tough budget times," Harris said.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: calgov2002; fairshare; fireback; recall; schwarzenegger; triballeaders

1 posted on 09/25/2003 9:43:00 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
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Don't mess with the Indians, Arnold.

I don't think Arnold ever made a Western, huh?
2 posted on 09/25/2003 9:44:05 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Burning Clinton's Britches Since 1998)
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To: *calgov2002
.
3 posted on 09/25/2003 9:44:38 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Burning Clinton's Britches Since 1998)
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To: NormsRevenge
I don't think Arnold ever made a Western, huh?

Well, sort of.

4 posted on 09/25/2003 9:49:31 AM PDT by martin_fierro (Great Googlymoogly!)
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To: NormsRevenge
Arnold may have a winning argument with college students, and McClintock might also with the Indian Tribes issue. My son watched the debate and Schwarzenneger got his attention when Arnold talked about the money the Indians get, but yet they don't pay taxes. He said it was ridiculous that the Indians get free money, and FREE COLLEGE EDUCATION, while everyone else has to work hard for it. With the huge increase in student fees, I think the first candidate out of the block who points out the disparity of opportunity for Indians vs people who have to work hard to pay for an education would be a winner and gain a lot of student votes.
5 posted on 09/25/2003 9:52:40 AM PDT by Enterprise
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Chumash Tribe Lashes Out at Schwarzenegger Over Ad LA Times Recall Notebook

Excerpt from second LA Times article, see bottom article.

Schwarzenegger Ally Hired by Casino Firm

Bonnie Reiss, a longtime aide to Arnold Schwarzenegger, has been named to the board of directors of a company that owns several casinos in Nevada and has a major interest in the Hollywood Park card club.

Reiss' connection with Pinnacle Entertainment could provide a line of attack for Schwarzenegger's political rivals. The candidate has been attacking Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante and state Sen. Tom McClintock (R-Thousand Oaks) over the campaign contributions they receive from Indian tribes that run casinos.

Pinnacle's casinos and card clubs compete with the tribal casinos for gambling business.

6 posted on 09/25/2003 9:53:29 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Burning Clinton's Britches Since 1998)
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To: martin_fierro
LOL...Thanks.

I rest my case. ;-P
7 posted on 09/25/2003 9:55:02 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Burning Clinton's Britches Since 1998)
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To: NormsRevenge
Michael Lombardi, chairman of the gaming commission for the Augustine Casino near Coachella I grew up in the southwest and I worked a great deal with Indians in my Order of the Arrow group of the Boys Scouts. I ain't never met an indian named Lombardi
8 posted on 09/25/2003 9:55:35 AM PDT by SF Republican
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To: NormsRevenge; BibChr; onyx; PhiKapMom; Tamsey; redlipstick; habs4ever; My2Cents; South40; ...
Ping!





Foggy mornin' to ya, Norm!
9 posted on 09/25/2003 10:02:31 AM PDT by EggsAckley
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To: EggsAckley
They're on the warpath.

You know, I heard a conversation today on the radio with a reporter who has followed this court decision that Cruz's campaign illegally shifted Indian gaming funds from one campaign committee to another to circumvent recent changes in the campaign finance laws. I don't think this has gotten enough play in the press (why should I be surprised). Cruz's campaign is clearly engaged in ILLEGAL practices. This surpasses even Gray Davis on the sleaze factor. While Davis is unethical, I don't think he ever did anything illegal. Cruz-with-the-Booze is illegal.

10 posted on 09/25/2003 10:08:49 AM PDT by My2Cents (Well...there you go again.)
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To: EggsAckley

11 posted on 09/25/2003 10:12:30 AM PDT by Hillary's Lovely Legs (There is no shame in being poor, just dressing poorly)
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To: Enterprise
Arnold may have a winning argument with college students, and McClintock might also with the Indian Tribes issue. My son watched the debate and Schwarzenneger got his attention when Arnold talked about the money the Indians get, but yet they don't pay taxes. He said it was ridiculous that the Indians get free money, and FREE COLLEGE EDUCATION, while everyone else has to work hard for it. With the huge increase in student fees, I think the first candidate out of the block who points out the disparity of opportunity for Indians vs people who have to work hard to pay for an education would be a winner and gain a lot of student votes.

American Indians do not pay federal or state taxes on money earned from tribal enterprises on their tribal land. That money can only be taxed by the tribe. American Indians do not get free college education.. Many tribes who have successful enterprises now pay for their tribal members to go to college, as well as others, such as employees and their dependants. Indians do not get free money. Poor people everywhere qualify for financial aide, and that describes the majority of American Indians.

However, some point to treaty commitments as being free money. I assume that you make payments on your house. You made a contractual agreement with someone to make payments, and you do so not only to keep your house, but because it is right. The United States made many treaty agreements where the tribes were to be paid continually for land that they gave up. This is 'free'?

I'm all for re-negociating the compacts. I told the tribes that getting involed in this recall was stupid and would come to haunt them, and I'm being proved right. They've demonstrated to California that there are many tribes that have just way too much money sitting around, and made a target of themselves. And when they scream bloody murder, people are going to just laugh in their faces.
12 posted on 09/25/2003 10:12:45 AM PDT by kingu (Tom or Arnold, it doesn't matter if Davis wins the recall. Vote Yes on the Recall!)
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: SF Republican
I grew up in the southwest and I worked a great deal with Indians in my Order of the Arrow group of the Boys Scouts. I ain't never met an indian named Lombardi

What, he's supposed to be 'BlueSkyChief?' His name isn't Indian enough for you? I suppose Wilcox isn't either, though it is a name shared by many tribal members in Northern California.
14 posted on 09/25/2003 10:15:15 AM PDT by kingu (Tom or Arnold, it doesn't matter if Davis wins the recall. Vote Yes on the Recall!)
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To: GoOrdnance
Didn't Arnold take money from the tribes to support his government-nanny ballot initiative last year in which he advocated confiscating money from hard working tax payers to provide free after school care?

I'm sure that the proposition committee accepted funds from all sources, including Indian tribes. Did Arnold know about these donations? Who knows.
15 posted on 09/25/2003 10:17:33 AM PDT by kingu (Tom or Arnold, it doesn't matter if Davis wins the recall. Vote Yes on the Recall!)
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To: GoOrdnance
Yea Atlantic city has wiped out our school tax here in NJ. Along with the state Lottery <----- yea sure.......
16 posted on 09/25/2003 10:17:46 AM PDT by Afronaut (Vote for me now. Iíll let you know what I believe later)
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To: NormsRevenge
By not mentioning the two funds, Schwarzenegger's ad "falsely states that tribes pay virtually nothing," said Waltona Manion, a spokeswoman for the Morongo Band of Mission Indians near Cabazon.

Hmm. 120 something million that mostly goes to other tribes (non-gaming) with random left-overs for counties who have to deal with a thousand percent increase in traffic going to rural casinos who are pumping water out of the ground faster than anything can replenish it. Yeah, Waltona, I'll call that nothing.

Waltona Manion was the woman who was almost single-handedly responsible for making the tribes into a political force for the Democrats. Her constant advocation of 'Putting tribal dollars to work for the tribe' via political contributions is what has lead to the present backlash against the tribes. Once the memo surfaced (and we all knew that would happen) the tribes became a legitimate target. People are going to start to question why three people counts as a tribe, or why 29 people make nearly 200 million dollars a year, or why a chairman who earns more than a million dollars a year (in salary) plus tribal distributions (nearly half a million) has to skirt the law and 'purchase' a luxury car on the reservation to avoid paying taxes.

Go Arnold - 'bout time someone takes them on.
17 posted on 09/25/2003 10:22:43 AM PDT by kingu (Tom or Arnold, it doesn't matter if Davis wins the recall. Vote Yes on the Recall!)
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To: SF Republican
At least somebody was sensible enough not to name him Giuseppe, Vincenzo, Luigi, or Guido - Chief Vito Redfeather was sure to carefully select all his capos, er, warrior braves.....
18 posted on 09/25/2003 10:26:38 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (Buddy Rydell from "Anger Management" is my new role model)
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To: SF Republican
We have an Indian named O'Leary running for Tribal Council here.
19 posted on 09/25/2003 10:27:33 AM PDT by annyokie (One good thing about being wrong is the joy it brings to others.)
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To: My2Cents
Although our Lt. Governor Bustamonte SWORE AN OATH to uphold our government he still SUPPORTS MECHA and THE VIOLENT OVERTHROW OF CALIFORNIA
20 posted on 09/25/2003 10:30:12 AM PDT by Republicus2001
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To: kingu
I live part time in the Coachella Valley (Palm Springs). There are 6 Indian casinos in that area, so I see it first hand.

If you go into a casino and buy a product, have a drink or a meal, you will be charged the standard CA state sales tax rate on you purchase. However, big surprise, the Indians keep this money, while the typical customer thinks they are simply paying the state sales tax.

If you stay at an Indian hotel, they will charge you the standard room tax of 12 to 15%. Once again, big surprise, this money is not going to the local city. It is kept by the Indians.

Folks, it is the Indians dirty little secret, and the average casino/hotel patron thinks it is just the state/city taking their pound of flesh.

Then, the local cities have to beg to get the Indian tribes to contribute to the upkeep of the surrounding city that provides them with all their services.

If an Indian lives on the reservation, that Indian does not have to pay the CA vehicle license tax which was just tripled by Gray Davis.

As for free education, well it isn't quite free but they do get to pay the same in-state rates as a regular CA resident and taxpayer.

This whole system stinks. The biggest tragedy of all is that Gray Davis just signed into law a bill that will give the Indians the right to declare enormous amounts of lands throughout the state as sacred grounds, thereby stopping or limiting their development by the legitimate owners. Of course, I am confident those same Indians will be willing to look the other way for a substantial fee.
21 posted on 09/25/2003 10:42:29 AM PDT by CdMGuy
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To: NormsRevenge
Join Us…Your One Thread To All The California Recall News Threads!

Want on our daily or major news ping lists? Freepmail DoctorZin

22 posted on 09/25/2003 10:53:48 AM PDT by DoctorZIn
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To: CdMGuy
I live part time in the Coachella Valley (Palm Springs). There are 6 Indian casinos in that area, so I see it first hand.

Soon to have a seventh, since the Torres-Martinez group got their compact.

If you go into a casino and buy a product, have a drink or a meal, you will be charged the standard CA state sales tax rate on you purchase. However, big surprise, the Indians keep this money, while the typical customer thinks they are simply paying the state sales tax.

The tribe doesn't get any of the sales tax money, that is paid directly by the casino to the state. A simple phone call to the State Franchise Tax Board can verify this.

If you stay at an Indian hotel, they will charge you the standard room tax of 12 to 15%. Once again, big surprise, this money is not going to the local city. It is kept by the Indians.

They're not required to charge the tax unless they make an agreement with the city, and if they make such an agreement, they've paid the tax. A call to Temecula verified that Pechanga pays the agreed upon room tax rate. I don't know the details on the Spa Hotel and Casino, for example, but it would not be surprising that the Palm Springs City Council never signed a room tax agreement with the tribe. Then again, considering how much of Palm Springs is actually on the tribe's land.. Well, in any event, Milanovich (the chairman of the tribe) wouldn't give anything he wasn't forced to.

Folks, it is the Indians dirty little secret, and the average casino/hotel patron thinks it is just the state/city taking their pound of flesh.

The average casino/hotel is paying that pound of flesh to the proper authorities.

Then, the local cities have to beg to get the Indian tribes to contribute to the upkeep of the surrounding city that provides them with all their services.

Absolutely no argument there - the medical services just to the Spa Casino alone has got to top over a million dollars a year. Recently down at Barona I watched a life-flight helicopter land and pick up a casino patron to airlift to a hospital. And all I could think about, aside from hoping the person would be well, was there is another couple grand that the tax payers get to pay because the casino is sitting in the middle of nowhere.

If an Indian lives on the reservation, that Indian does not have to pay the CA vehicle license tax which was just tripled by Gray Davis.

Vehicles which do not leave reservation land are not subject to being registered. Since they never touch California's highways, they shouldn't be taxed anyway. I've no argument against this law, however, people who abuse the law (IE: the chairman of San Manuel) should be fined and/or jailed.

As for free education, well it isn't quite free but they do get to pay the same in-state rates as a regular CA resident and taxpayer.

They are California residents and taxpayers, except for what income they get from tribal enterprises, earned on their tribal land. They don't have to pay sales tax on something bought from their tribal enterprises while on their land. Again, something I can't argue against. When they leave the reservation and erroniously claim they don't have to pay sales tax at stores, that's where my anger comes in.

This whole system stinks. The biggest tragedy of all is that Gray Davis just signed into law a bill that will give the Indians the right to declare enormous amounts of lands throughout the state as sacred grounds, thereby stopping or limiting their development by the legitimate owners. Of course, I am confident those same Indians will be willing to look the other way for a substantial fee.

The Indian Commission is the one who sets where sacred sites are and controls the approval/disapproval process. I know of no tribe that supported that law, and many demanded a veto. It was one of those wonderful Democrat tricks that was doing 'the best thing for the tribes.' Instead, it put California's developemnt in the hands of appointments made by governors who do not represent the tribes of California, or the American Indian population of the state. Several commission members aren't even members of tribes recognized by the federal government, or other tribes. Others dispute the claims by the commission members as to their tribal bonifieds.

Everyone should remember that members of out of state tribes (especially the Navajo) outnumber California's tribes by a margin of at least 10 to one. Los Angeles alone has more out of state tribal members than the entire population of federally recognized California tribes.
23 posted on 09/25/2003 11:04:27 AM PDT by kingu (Tom or Arnold, it doesn't matter if Davis wins the recall. Vote Yes on the Recall!)
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To: SF Republican
Of which the "Augustine" tribe has ONE member, I understand
24 posted on 09/25/2003 11:10:58 AM PDT by kaktuskid
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To: kingu
Remember, this point of view was brought up by my son, not me. The local Indian casino, to my knowledge, does not get taxed on its income from gambling. The casino pays its tribe members 14,000 per month, tax free. That to me, is certainly free money.

If the tribe sends its members to college, and pays for it, that again to me, is a free college education. The Federal Government made its treaties and those treaties have to be honored. The States have negotiated their own deals with the Indian Casinos, and in California at least, they gave away a lot, and got little.

I think the college vote is the potential huge back breaking straw in this election. My point is that this is a argument that can be raised and aimed at college students and their parents in an effort to get votes. And the campaign is in the latter stages and there wouldn't be time for the Indian Casinos to effective counter the issue.

25 posted on 09/25/2003 11:53:11 AM PDT by Enterprise
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To: Enterprise
Remember, this point of view was brought up by my son, not me. The local Indian casino, to my knowledge, does not get taxed on its income from gambling. The casino pays its tribe members 14,000 per month, tax free. That to me, is certainly free money.

The casino is taxed at 100 percent of it's profits by the tribe. That's how it works at all casinos. The tribe then pays the tribal members, after taking out money for the tribal programs. Since it is one tribal member paying another on tribal lands, yes, it is not subject to tax. Is that free money? My mind is still split two ways on it...

If the tribe sends its members to college, and pays for it, that again to me, is a free college education. The Federal Government made its treaties and those treaties have to be honored. The States have negotiated their own deals with the Indian Casinos, and in California at least, they gave away a lot, and got little.

Two issues there.. The tribe paying for the college education was one of the points of the Indian gaming act. A decade ago, that Indian student likely would have been on welfare and qualified for financial aid. Today, it's paid for by the tribe. That, at least, is a good thing, getting people off the public dole and as Republicans, we should support people using enterprise to get ahead...

But as to the compacts, yes, I think the state gave away the store. However, they didn't have much choice, since the voters approved a model compact that gave away even more.

The compacts should be re-negociated with the thought in mind that the Indian Gaming Act was not made to create millionaires, nor create undue hardship on local communities. I especially want to see water rights included in the compacts before these casinos and their mega hotels drain the underground water supplies. Ghads, it's hard to articulate exactly what I want without sounding like a money-grubbing Democrat who wants to crush someone who had the audacity to become successful.

I think the college vote is the potential huge back breaking straw in this election. My point is that this is a argument that can be raised and aimed at college students and their parents in an effort to get votes. And the campaign is in the latter stages and there wouldn't be time for the Indian Casinos to effective counter the issue.

You've seen but the tip of the iceberg in what money could be brought to bear in a political battle with the tribes. Between their own warchests and those of the corporations and off-shore entities that finance those casinos (and other tribal enterprises), a hundred million could be spent in a week. College students are predominantly Democrat and would simply see it as being racist, the parents are too busy working to pay for their child's education to pay much attention. I don't disagree that it is an idea to get potential votes, but I do think that it is one with huge risks of backfiring with little payback.

Another consideration is that the casinos and the tribes have become the fastest growing sector in the way of employment, with particular attention to hiring people who are on welfare and getting them off of it. They generally pay much better wages than the colleges pay their support staff, and in return, garner incredible loyalty. Add in all the companies that do business with the casinos.. Well, they are an economic powerhouse in a state with few such examples. Treading carefully with this special interest is recommended for anyone.
26 posted on 09/25/2003 12:34:10 PM PDT by kingu (Tom or Arnold, it doesn't matter if Davis wins the recall. Vote Yes on the Recall!)
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To: NormsRevenge
If the Indians have enough money to give millions to candidates that want to raise my taxes then the Indians should be subject to those taxes as well.

As sovereign governments, tribes do not pay taxes and they pay nothing into the state's general fund. If they are sovereign governments then why are candidates allowed to take contributions from them?

27 posted on 09/25/2003 1:36:33 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Por La Raza Mierda.)
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To: kingu
Well, my concept of "taxation" is a Federal, State, or local "tax," and not something imposed by a tribe on its members. Otherwise, I want to thank you for your very informative and insightful response. I hope a lot of people read it because there is a lot to learn from it.
28 posted on 09/25/2003 1:42:42 PM PDT by Enterprise
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To: kingu
LOL! In the Fresno County area, there are Indian names of Sample and Stankowitz.
29 posted on 09/25/2003 1:48:53 PM PDT by Enterprise
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To: Enterprise
Well, my concept of "taxation" is a Federal, State, or local "tax," and not something imposed by a tribe on its members. Otherwise, I want to thank you for your very informative and insightful response. I hope a lot of people read it because there is a lot to learn from it.

Thanks, I try. :)

Well, a landed tribe runs social services, police-like services and fire services (when permitted) on that land, as well as sewage, water, etc, all the general services a town would supply. That they would tax their economic developments is much better than getting freebies from the Feds. But, like you, I think there is a limit as to how much of a windfall they should get.. I especially think, just like if one town impacts another, that there should be fair compensation for joint expenses. And my mind rebels at the idea as well, because we're punishing success, just like the Democrats like to.
30 posted on 09/25/2003 1:49:31 PM PDT by kingu (Tom or Arnold, it doesn't matter if Davis wins the recall. Vote Yes on the Recall!)
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To: kingu
I told the tribes that getting involed in this recall was stupid and would come to haunt them, and I'm being proved right. They've demonstrated to California that there are many tribes that have just way too much money sitting around, and made a target of themselves.

You are SO right! Four million to Bustamante and McClintock campaigns (three and one respectively). My question is what happened to all the needy Indians who could use that money being handed out to candidates!

31 posted on 09/25/2003 5:18:37 PM PDT by hotpotato
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To: PhiKapMom
Ping. Here's another good one, Phi. Especially check out posts from kingu. Please ping any other interested FReepers.
32 posted on 09/25/2003 5:28:54 PM PDT by hotpotato
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To: kingu
I'm all for re-negociating the compacts. I told the tribes that getting involed in this recall was stupid and would come to haunt them, and I'm being proved right. They've demonstrated to California that there are many tribes that have just way too much money sitting around, and made a target of themselves.

Check this thread Campaign donation lawsuit challenges Indian sovereignty

33 posted on 09/25/2003 5:36:03 PM PDT by hotpotato
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To: kingu
People are going to start to question why three people counts as a tribe, or why 29 people make nearly 200 million dollars a year, or why a chairman who earns more than a million dollars a year (in salary) plus tribal distributions (nearly half a million) has to skirt the law and 'purchase' a luxury car on the reservation to avoid paying taxes.

And you are looking at one of them right here. If these tribes do not pay taxes to the State or have to abide by the laws of the State they are in then why are they voting in our State elections and contributing to candidates?

34 posted on 09/25/2003 6:07:29 PM PDT by PhiKapMom (Alpha Omnicron Pi Mom too! -- Visit http://www.georgewbush.com!)
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To: hotpotato
My question is what happened to all the needy Indians who could use that money being handed out to candidates!

For those tribes that have successful gaming and not too large a population, they're doing great. For those tribes who are huge, not well placed to benefit from gaming, or prevented from using gaming because of a lack of a compact (or other problems), their lives are still usually sub-third world, unless some program or another took pity on them long enough to help them a little bit.
35 posted on 09/25/2003 10:11:32 PM PDT by kingu (Tom or Arnold, it doesn't matter if Davis wins the recall. Vote Yes on the Recall!)
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