Man at centre of French euthanasia debate dies after mother rigs IV

AFP ^ | Fri, Sep 26, 2003

[presidio9]

A severely handicapped man at the centre of debate in France over euthanasia died, two days after his mother put an overdose of sedatives in his intravenous drip.

Vincent Humbert, a 22-year-old former fireman who was quadriplegic, blind and dumb, hit the headlines in December when he sent a letter to President Jacques Chirac pleading for a dispensation from France's criminal ban on mercy killing.

His mother Marie Humbert, who has waged a passionate campaign for her son's right to die, gave him the overdose in hospital on Wednesday -- three years to the day since the road accident that caused his injuries.

Doctors in the northern town of Berck-sur-Mer said they decided to withhold treatment Friday morning after Vincent sank into a coma. "The medical team that has cared for him for three years took their collective and difficult decision in complete independence," they said in a statement.

Marie Humbert, 48, was taken into custody by police Thursday on suspicion of "attempted murder" but allowed out to be at her son's side and to receive psychiatric care. She was expected to be placed under judicial investigation for her role in her son's death.

However Justice Minister Dominique Perben issued a statement Friday asking prosecutors "to act with the greatest humanity in applying the law, taking into account the suffering of the mother and the young man."

The Humbert affair was on the front page of most French newspapers Friday, prompting agonised debate over the ethics of euthanasia.

With a headline reading "Let us end this hypocrisy," the left-wing daily Liberation said it was time for the law to recognise exceptional cases under which mercy killing might be justified.

"Thanks to Marie Humbert, those in political power will perhaps understand this. And then they can thank her," it said.

Though euthanasia is banned in France, it is allowed in tightly defined circumstances in the Netherlands and Belgium. In Switzerland assisted suicide is legal and there are assocations which help terminally ill patients to take the step.

According to the British medical journal The Lancet, euthanasia is secretly practiced on a large scale across Europe, with doctors consulting with families before hastening a terminally ill patient's death.

Between one and 3.4 percent of deaths in Europe happen this way, the journal reported.

Marie Humbert had signalled her intention to try to kill her son this week with a series of media interviews in which she said his death was "programmed".

Vincent's death was timed to coincide with the publication of his book entitled "I ask you for the right to die," in which he explained why he wanted to end his life. He was able to communicate to write the book by pressing his thumb against a journalist's hand.

"I will never see this book," he wrote in it, "because I died on September 24, 2000... Since that day, I do not live. I am made to live. I am kept alive. For whom, for what -- I do not know. All I know is that I am the living dead, that I never wished for this false death."

"I would so much like to find a way to snuff it, to leave before I am totally cracked, spiteful or bitter. The more time passes, the less I want to live out my days as a shrivelled vegetable on a hospital bed. It is not possible," he wrote.

[presidio9]

I can not think of many things more ghoulish than a mother euthanizing her severely depressed son.

[presidio9]

My apologies for the 2nd through 12th lines of the article. I got a bit emotional about this story and did not proof-read it before posting...

[bootyist-monk]

I thought the French killed their unwanted by turning off their ceiling fans and hiding the ice.

[Puppage]

C'est la vie, Owen

[ikka]

Are any of Helen Keller's writings available in France? Just asking.

[ellhow]

I have to side with the mother. It would be a crime to let the guy live another 50 years in this state. Surely free people can kill themselves, and if they don't hae the physical ability to do so, they can get someone else to?

[presidio9]

People who want to kill themselves are clinically depressed. They need psychological and spiritual guidance, not facilitation. I can sort of understand, if not condone people who want to die because they are in pain. A person who wants to die because he is handicapped and has lost his will to live is a different story. The ability to see or walk does not make us human. Our minds do. This young man's mother is a selfish monster.

[alisasny]

All the guidance in the world and he still would be bedridden as a quad and deaf. No counseling could cure that horrible quality of life. I am sure it was tried for 3 years.

[presidio9]

Dead is dead. We have no way of knowing what medical advances will occur in the next 50 years, and now he never will. I guessing this young man recieved no spiritual guidance before making his decision.

[syriacus]

From the article:

I died on September 24, 2000... Since that day, I do not live.

I don't understand....
How did he write a book if he was dead?

[GovernmentShrinker]

People who want to kill themselves are clinically depressed. They need psychological and spiritual guidance, not facilitation.

Classifying those who don't agree with the party line as mentally ill is a time-honored totalitarian practice. The Soviet government locked up its opponents in mental hospitals. The Chinese government still does. Free people make their own decisions about their own lives. It's one thing to allow state intervention when someone is briefly threatening suicide after a traumatic event or for no apparent reason. But forcing someone to live against their will for years or decades is as ghoulish as it gets.

[GovernmentShrinker]

I guessing this young man recieved no spiritual guidance before making his decision

No, you are assuming that if he got what YOU think is proper spiritual guidance, he would have agreed with YOU about what to do with HIS life.

[syriacus]

From

Disabled man dies after mercy killing attempt

Former Health Minister Bernard Kouchner...called Marie Humbert an "admirable mother."

[syriacus]

Free people make their own decisions about their own lives

...And get their mothers to kill them

[presidio9]

Quick question:

Your sister gets dumped by her boyfiend and decides that there is nothing left to live for. You try everything to snap her out of her funk, but she is determined to take her own life. She asks to borrow your gun. Do you give it to her? She is an adult, and she has made a conscious decision. Who are you to determine wheter hers is an appropriate course of action?

Does the fact that the youn man in France was severely handicapped influence your opinion? Do you realize that many many people have lived fruitful and productive lives in similiar conditions to his own? Are their lives somehow less meaningful? Where do you get off comparing my value for the human life to policies of the Soviet Union and Communist China? It is you who need to rethink your priorities.

[WOSG]

"People who want to kill themselves are clinically depressed. They need psychological and spiritual guidance, not facilitation. "

This is likely true in many cases but not universally true.

"Classifying those who don't agree with the party line as mentally ill is a time-honored totalitarian practice. "

And invoking 'hitler' on views you dont share is an old but discredited rhetorical technique. It's not a 'party line' that suicidal people depart from - it's the natural inclination that favors life over death. It's a genuine concern to ask if such behavior is truly rational or irrational.

" The Soviet government locked up its opponents in mental hospitals. "

This is known as a red herring. Your 'logic' leads to: " The USA locked up John Hinkley as deranged. The USSR locks up political opponents as deranged. Therefore, John Hinkley is a political prisoner." HUH???

[presidio9]

No, you are assuming that if he got what YOU think is proper spiritual guidance, he would have agreed with YOU about what to do with HIS life.

I am going to go out on a limb and assume that you are a Libertarian, based on your screen name and your opinions. Do you not realize that the Consititution that you know and love is based first and formost on the judeo-Christian philosophy of respect for the sanctity of human life?

[syriacus]

Classifying those who don't agree with the party line as mentally ill is a time-honored totalitarian practice.

True.

But how does that apply here?

Most likely, the guy was clinically depressed.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Perhaps, but given his situation, it was perfectly rational to be depressed and want to die, and there was apparently no realistic hope that his situation would change. That's a very different situation than someone who is suicidal over the recent death of a relative, or a teenager who is suicidal over a failed romance.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Maybe you'd like to quote the passage(s) in the Constitution which give the government the right to forcibly keep a free citizen alive against his/her will. You can probably find it in the same place you'll find the stuff about RKBA being a collective right subject to the control of state-government-run militias.

[presidio9]

there was apparently no realistic hope that his situation would change.

And you know this how? A generation ago everybody diagnosed with leukemia died. Your logic is faulty. Either you give your sister the gun or you are saying it is ok to kill him because he was a cripple.

[presidio9]

Maybe you'd like to show all of us the line in the Constitution about euthanasia. It's not there. Common morality dictates that we don't kill our undesirables.

[Zevonismymuse]

I can not think of many things more ghoulish than a mother euthanizing her severely depressed son.

Severely depressed????He was more than depressed! He was quadraplegic, totally blind and unable to speak. This guy could not even scratch his own itch, let alone feed or wash himself. There are many of us who would never want to burden our loved ones in this manner.

My husband and I have instructed our children to to help us exit this world if and when we are unable to care for ourselves.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Does the fact that the youn man in France was severely handicapped influence your opinion?

It influenced HIS opinion. My opinion about the value of his life is irrelevant.

And as I've said, brief detentions of people who appear to be temporarily suicidal is reasonable (just as it's reasonable for rescuers to forcibly haul in drowning victims, who often instinctively try to fight off rescuers). But forcing someone to spend years or decades living when they don't want to is a dangerous and horrific abuse of government power. I sure don't want it done to me, if I'm ever in this young man's situation. Doctors had had plenty of opportunity to try various antidepressants on this young man, and he still wanted to die.

[GovernmentShrinker]

It's HIS right to decide whether he wants to suffer while waiting for an unlikely breakthrough.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Common morality dictates that we allow free people to make their own decisions about when to end their lives. The Constitution says nary a word on the matter, but it does say who has all the rights not enumerated within it.

[syriacus]

it was perfectly rational to be depressed and want to die

Sure it is.

But, since we are hypothesizing, maybe his mother had a role to play in prolonging his depression.

After all, relatives have been known to encourage suicidal tendencies in the ill and the handicapped. From Not Dead Yet, Old News Snippets

* People with MS, ALS, cancer, spinal cord injuries and even depression (formerly known as sadness) appear on Kevorkian's homemade declaration-of-death videos, begging for death. In late 1995, one of them - a young man only recently diagnosed as having ALS - seemed not quite convinced. His wife reassured him that his choice was correct. "Death is better for everyone," she said.

and

George Delury, former editor of the World Almanac, has pleaded guilty to the crime of attempted manslaughter in the death of his wife, Myrna Lebov, who had multiple sclerosis. Drury prepared a lethal potion of honey and antidepressant, and, according to a relative, intimidated his wife into drinking it.

Prosecutors released transcripts of Delury's computer diary. The diary was entitled "Countdown: A Daily Log of Myrna's Mental State and View Toward Death." That diary made it clear that Delury, not his wife, saw her death as the solution to all their problems. One entry said, "You [Myrna] are like a vampire, sucking the life out of me."

BTW, Delury was able to gather the lethal dose of anti-depressant, by cutting back on the dosage of anti-depressant he gave his to his wife in the last weeks of her life.

[Destructor]

Well...at least he was true to his screwed up convictions.

[KantianBurke]

[presidio9]

It's HIS right to decide whether he wants to suffer while waiting for an unlikely breakthrough.

If he had been reading FR, articles that I posted on breakthroughs in artificial vision (from the WSJ within the past 3 weeks) and thought-controlled bionic limbs (yesterday) this might have influenced his decision. There is a widespread belief that nerve regeneration will be a reality by the end of the decade at the latest.

[presidio9]

My husband and I have instructed our children to to help us exit this world if and when we are unable to care for ourselves.

Note: He was not on life support. His mother had to poison him to kill him.

[presidio9]

Common morality dictates that we allow free people to make their own decisions about when to end their lives.

Where? Where does it say this. Common morality says suicide is a crime. Judeo Christian morality says that it is a sin. If you are going to try to sound like an intellectual, it helps to have some basis for the points you are making, instead of simply bs-ing.

[presidio9]

Common morality dictates that we allow free people to make their own decisions about when to end their lives.

Where? Where does it say this. Common morality says suicide is a crime. Judeo Christian morality says that it is a sin. If you are going to try to sound like an intellectual, it helps to have some basis for the points you are making, instead of simply bs-ing.

[presidio9]

And as I've said, brief detentions of people who appear to be temporarily suicidal is reasonable. Doctors had had plenty of opportunity to try various antidepressants on this young man, and he still wanted to die.

So you now appoint yourself the arbitor of exactly when a person is justified in taking their own life? How do you know what steps the doctors took? Answer: You don't. You just feel that this man was a burden in his condition, so he wasn't worth saving.

I implore the two handicapped individuals who sent me private FReepmails to tell this guy how wrong he is.

[Darksheare]

"quadriplegic, blind and dumb, hit the headlines in December when he sent a letter"
Well, if he's a quad that is blind AND dumb, how the heck could he even send the letter?
How would he communicate such to anyone?

[presidio9]

Maybe Mommy Dearest helped him write it?

[Darksheare]

That's the thinking.
I'm wondering what the claimed method of dictating his intent was.
It's just super fishy.

[Darksheare]

Ah, I see: He was able to communicate to write the book by pressing his thumb against a journalist's hand.
They divined his intent!

[Zevonismymuse]

Note: He was not on life support. His mother had to poison him to kill him.

That is what I'm talking about. The standard in our family is, "Can the person wipe their own butt?" If I can no longer wipe my own butt my children have agreed to bring me a special cocktail and leave it on the bedside table.

[MEGoody]

"All the guidance in the world and he still would be bedridden as a quad and deaf."

Ever heard of Joni Erikson Tada? She's a quadraplegic with an awesome ministry to others who are handicapped. She has written books, set up a camp for wheel-chair bound children, and a number of other wonderful things, all while severely handicapped herself.

This man could have had a life, but he gave up.

[presidio9]

My advice to you: Stay away from tree shredders. Who we are is not defined by what we can do physically. Certianly the ability to "wipe one's own butt" is a poor definition of life.

[MEGoody]

"If I can no longer wipe my own butt my children have agreed to bring me a special cocktail and leave it on the bedside table."

So you've given your children the right to murder you because you have arthritis. Sad.

[kimmie7]

,

[Old Professer]

Vincent Humbert, a 22-year-old former fireman who was quadriplegic, blind and dumb, hit the headlines in December when he sent a letter to President Jacques Chirac pleading for a dispensation from France's criminal ban on mercy killing.

How, exactly, did he manage such a feat as to post a letter with no facility of speech or limb?

[OXENinFLA]

One by Metallica

I Can't Remember Anything
Can't Tell If this Is True or Dream
Deep down Inside I Feel to Scream
this Terrible Silence Stops Me

Now That the War Is Through with Me
I'm Waking up I Can Not See
That There Is Not Much Left of Me
Nothing Is Real but Pain Now

Hold My Breath as I Wish for Death
Oh Please God,wake Me

Back in the Womb its Much Too Real
in Pumps Life That I must Feel
but Can't Look Forward to Reveal
Look to the Time When I'll Live

Fed Through the Tube That Sticks in Me
Just like a Wartime Novelty
Tied to Machines That Make Me Be
Cut this Life off from Me

Hold My Breath as I Wish for Death
Oh Please God,wake Me

Now the World Is Gone I'm Just One
Oh God,help Me Hold My Breath as I Wish for Death
Oh Please God Help Me

Darkness Imprisoning Me
All That I See
Absolute Horror
I Cannot Live
I Cannot Die
Trapped in Myself
Body My Holding Cell

Landmine Has Taken My Sight
Taken My Speech
Taken My Hearing
Taken My Arms
Taken My Legs
Left Me With Life In Hell

[Old Professer]

It would be a crime to let the guy live another 50 years in this state.

That's what I keep saying about Tennessee.

[KantianBurke]

One irony is that the actor who portrayed Johnny in the Trumbo film is the same one who appeared as President Bush on the show "Thats my Bush" and the Showtime special!

[Darksheare]

He supposedly communicated enough to write a book by pressing his thumb against a reporter's hand.
I missed seeing that on the first read through myself.
Basically, they apparently divined his intent by his thumb pushing.
That's an awfully AlGorean way of divining intent.
It sounds like another invented event, but tis time with a reporter and the guy's mother as murderer and co-conspirator.

[Incorrigible]

Didn't a bunch of holiday tripping French leave nearly 20,000 of their parents and patients behind to die in the 104 degree heat?

Why are they making a big deal over this one? The culture of death already becomes them.