Superbomb ignites science dispute (Got Hafnium?)

SFGate.com ^ | 9/27/03 | Keay Davidson - SF Chronicle

[NormsRevenge]

The Pentagon's pursuit of a new kind of nonnuclear super-weapon has sparked a behind-the-scenes revolt among its elite scientific advisers, some of whom reject the scheme as pseudoscience.

The military's goal is to develop a bomb that might be far more powerful than existing conventional weapons of the same size. Precisely targeted, such a weapon could take out targets -- such as underground caverns that conceal weapons of mass destruction -- without posing the severe political risks of using nuclear bombs.

[ahadams2]

but...but...what about photon torpedoes?? and light sabers??? what about them???!!!!

[Husker24]

Although Herrmannsfeldt regards claims for hafnium-178's super-energy powers as nonsense, he fears that other nations will take them seriously, triggering a new arms race.

Lets get this straight, he says they wont work, but he worries that other nations will build them.

[GeronL]

I wanted to field entire divisions of Mech Warriors!

[swilhelm73]

So, has anyone actually gotten ahold of a dental x-ray machine and tried to duplicate the original work? Or have they all just followed the theory - with wildly different equipment - and failed to reproduce it?

It may well be that there is something specific to the equipment Collins was using.

[kimosabe31]

bump

[ahadams2]

sounds like a plan! when you've worked out the details let me know - I've always thought the MechWarrior idea was a major military breakthrough simply waiting for technology to let it happen.

[Travis McGee]

Science ping. (Let me know what you bright guys decide.)

[GeronL]

Well, we have to give them hermetically sealed polytanium armor, and they have to have those 100mm guided mortars and the power cells that keeps them in the field for up to a year without a recharge.

I think we should outfit most of them with twin 120mm turrets off of the outmoded M1A2's and some should have 100mm gatlin cannons.

But this might take a while....

[GeronL]

I wouldn't know halfnium from sleepium

[LPM1888]

Collins himself has a weighty reputation. A decade earlier, the Texas Academy of Sciences had named him "Distinguished Texas Scientist" of the year for his research on high-energy lasers.

That title and a $1.00 will get you a cup of coffee any place in town.

If Los Alamos, Sandia, and Lawrence Livermore National Labs can't verify his experiment then we damned sure don't need to be wasting any more money on the effort.

[ahadams2]

oh man, I want the pods filled with armor piercing rockets - you know, and the energy beam weapons that can melt an opponent's kneecap at a mile and half distance...yeah! now we're talkin'!

[NormsRevenge]

The links are dead in the following info posting FRom Wikipedia... It comes in thin rolls so you can use it in lieu of tinfoil if so needed.

Hafnium

FRom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Lutetium - Hafnium - Tantalum

Zr
Hf
Rf  
 
 

Full table

General

Name, Symbol, Number

Hafnium, Hf, 72

Chemical series

Transition metals

Group, Period, Block

4 (IVB), 6 , d

Density, Hardness

13310 kg/m³, 5.5

Appearance

grey steel

Atomic Properties

Atomic weight

178.49 amu

Atomic radius (calc.)

155 (208) pm

Covalent radius

150 pm

van der Waals radius

no data

Electron configuration

[Xe]4f¹⁴ 5d² 6s²

e^- 's per energy level

2, 8, 18, 32, 10, 2

Oxidation state (Oxide)

4 (amphoteric)

Crystal structure

Hexagonal

Physical Properties

State of matter

solid

Melting point

2506 K (4051 °F)

Boiling point

4876 K (8317 °F)

Molar volume

13.44 ×10^-3 m³/mol

Heat of vaporization

575 kJ/mol

Heat of fusion

24.06 kJ/mol

Vapor pressure

0.00112Pa at 2500K

Speed of sound

3010 m/s at 293.15 K

Miscellaneous

Electronegativity

1.3 (Pauling scale)

Specific heat capacity

140 J/(kg*K)

Electrical conductivity

3.12 10⁶/m ohm

Thermal conductivity

23 W/(m*K)

1^st ionization potential

658.5 kJ/mol

2^nd ionization potential

1440 kJ/mol

Most Stable Isotopes

iso	NA	half-life	DM	DE MeV	DP
172Hf	{syn.}	1.87 y	ε	0.350	172Lu
174Hf	0.162%	2 E15 y	α	2.495	170Yb
176Hf	5.206%	Hf is stable with 104 neutrons
177Hf	18.606%	Hf is stable with 105 neutrons
178Hf	27.297%	Hf is stable with 106 neutrons
179Hf	13.629%	Hf is stable with 107 neutrons
180Hf	35.1%	Hf is stable with 108 neutrons
182Hf	{syn}	9 E6 y	β	0.373	182Ta

SI units & STP are used except where noted.

Hafnium is a chemical element in the periodic table that has the symbol Hf and atomic number 72. A lustrous, silvery gray tetravalent transition metal, hafnium resembles zirconium chemically and is found in zirconium minerals. Hafnium is used in tungsten alloys in filaments and electrodes and also acts as a neutron absorber in nuclear control rods.

Table of contents

1 Notable Characteristics

2 Applications

3 History

4 Occurrence

5 Precautions

6 External Links

Notable Characteristics

This is a shiny silvery, ductile metal that is corrosion resistant and chemically similar to zirconium. The properties of hafnium are markedly affected by zirconium impurities and these two elements are amongst the most difficult to separate. The only notable difference between them is their density (zirconium is about half as dense as hafnium).

Hafnium carbide is the most refractory binary compound known and hafnium nitride is the most refractory of all known metal nitrides with a melting point of 3310 °C). This metal is resistant to concentrated alkalis, but halogens react with it to form hafnium tetrahalides. At higher temperatures hafnium reacts with oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, boron, sulfur, and silicon.

The nuclear isomer Hf-178-2m is also a source of energetic gamma rays, and is being studied as a possible power source for gamma ray lasers.

Applications

Hafnium is used to make nuclear control rods, such as those found in nuclear submarines because of its ability to absorb neutrons (its thermal neutron absorption cross section is nearly 600 times that of zirconium), excellent mechanical properties and exceptional corrosion-resistance properties. Other uses;

• Used in gas-filled and incandescent lamps,
• for scavenging oxygen and nitrogen,
• and in iron, titanium, niobium, tantalum, and other metal alloys.

History

Hafnium (Latin Hafnia for "Copenhagen") was discovered by Dirk Coster and Georg von Hevesy in 1923 in Copenhagen, Denmark. Soon after, the new element was predicted to be associated with zirconium by using the Bohr theory and was finally found in zircon through X-ray spectroscope analysis in Norway.

It was separated from zirconium through repeated recrystallization of double ammonium or potassium fluorides by Jantzen and von Hevesey. Metallic hafnium was first prepared by Anton Eduard van Arkel and Jan Hendrik deBoer by passing the tetraiodide vapor over a heated tungsten filament.

Occurrence

Hafnium is found combined in natural zirconium compounds but it is never found as a free element in nature. Minerals that contain zirconium, such as alvite [(Hf, Th, Zr)SiO₄ H₂O], thortveitite and zircon (ZrSiO₄), usually contain 1 and 5 percent hafnium. Hafnium and zirconium have nearly identical chemistry, which makes the two difficult to separate. About half of all hafnium metal manufactured is produced by a by-product of zirconium refinement. This is done through reducing hafnium tetrachloride with magnesium or sodium in the Kroll Process.

Precautions

Care needs to be taken when machining hafnium because when it is divided into fine particles, it is pyrophoric and can ignite spontaneously in air. Compounds that contain this metal are rarely encountered by most people and the pure metal is not normally toxic but all its compounds should be handled as if they are toxic (although there appears to be limited danger to exposed individuals).

[GeronL]

I just mentioned the heavier weapons, I forgot to mention the constellation of low orbit geo-sync satellites (don't tell me thats impossible! =o) ) that will allow analysts in the Satellite Command Center (SatCom) to direct the guided mortars from a Mech without the driver having to do anything. They will also keep him informed of all enemy activity from their eyes in the sky.

The Mechs will have unguided rockets, 20mm cannons, 7.62 machine guns, grenade launchers, anti-aircraft missiles and they will also carry a couple of UAV's to find the bad guys if the satellites are impaired.

The things might be 20 feet tall but the skin absorbs heat and changes color to match the terrain of course. We're still working on the laser weapons.

[Kenny Bunk]

Dumkopf! Venn Herr Doktor Hermannsfeldt speaks, you do nicht talk. You listen only. Schweinhund. Silence or your relatifs in Chermany vill suffer. Alle ist klarr?

[Flightdeck]

I guarantee that the US defense research community is welcomming the skepticism. It only disinvites other capable researchers from investigating what might potentially be a breakthrough. Even if Jason's recommendation is officially taken, there is a budget for this type of thing.

[GeronL]

did I mention that we'll carry them across the ocean aboard the Jetships? These ships have no propellers, they have several jet engines to propel them faster than anything on the water, they are heavily armed and carry a large number of the huge Mechs. =o)

Jetships have no open deck, they look like a smaller version of a Trek saucer section.

[Flightdeck]

Actually, that award will guarantee you some good funding for several years. Texas has some very, very, good laboratories also.

[TLI]

One possible way would involve bombarding elements in a giant particle accelerator, then developing a tedious process for extracting the hafnium-178 nuclear isomer.

 

Let's see, where can we find a rather large partical accelerator... hummm... oh yea, TEXA... oops, no, that got pi$$ed away.

Oh well.

[alfa6]

I am reminded of the Admiral during WW II who when asked about the atomic bomb working said "As an expert in muntions it will never work" Dang I wish I could remember his name, IIRC he was FDR's aide.

For a wee bit of education, and a grin or two, try this...

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/elements.php

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

[American in Israel]

The Becker team has used instruments that are "a hundred thousand times more sensitive" than Collins' dental X-ray machine, and "in spite of our best efforts, we cannot reproduce those results."

This is a scientist? dental x-ray machines look at nothing, it is the film that looks, the x-ray machine is the energy source. If they are quoting some guy that knows less about it than the man on the street credibility is a bit of a problem. This is a guy that looks in the wrong end of a telescope and cites it as proof the moon does not exist.

[American in Israel]

For one that got away, there are still people there. Wonder what that site is for hmmmm?

[American in Israel]

Indeed, if the breakdown is a resonant effect, the spectrum of what you hit is with is critical. Real science would know this, that is why this article is very strange.

George hit the nail with a hammer, and fred drove over the nail with a car. Then fred said george was wrong about nails being good for fastening wood.

[RLK]

"In my opinion, this matter is worse than cold fusion,"

-------------------

Cold fusion has been shown to occur reproduceably in numerous experiments.

[David1]

I was thinking the same thing. He would have nothing to worry about then, right??? Or maybe...

[Defiant]

The key to the concept is a little known element called hafnium

Just think how powerful it would be if we used Fulnium!

[ASOC]

Gee, this stuff klooks old hat.
A really powerful explosive that has been around for years and years

"duodec"

And no radiation......

[TLI]

Would not hold a candle to HushABoom...

[SAJ]

Duodec?

Really? An E. E. Smith fan here? He died way too young (and would likely have had scathing things to say about both cold fusion and hafnium superbombs).

[skinkinthegrass]

Hafnium...thanks... :)

[skinkinthegrass]

For a wee bit of education, and a grin or two, try this...

..thanks..where's is Ms. Sharp, Now?....She'd love this dittie.. I never could remember all of them..104 back then. :)

[thegreatbeast]

There is no sorting out of politics anymore. This might just be communists bitching about not being able to get back to Never-Neverland. Some investigation , some experimentation is certainly in order.

[skinkinthegrass]

Oh well.

I wonder if Texas A&M is has theirs... :|

[skinkinthegrass]

Oh well.

Texas A&M used to have one..or something along that line...in '67, first Unversity to have one on campus. :|

[ido_now]

"but...but...what about photon torpedoes?? and light sabers??? what about them???!!!!"

I agree but Klingon disrupters might also work unless the enemy is using a cloaking device.

This all sounds "Hafnium-assed" to me. Why not just use an old fashioned 1 kiloton atomic device and lie about what we used. Governments are very, very good at lying.

[jaykay]

Although Herrmannsfeldt regards claims for hafnium-178's super-energy powers as nonsense, he fears that other nations will take them seriously, triggering a new arms race.

Lets get this straight, he says they wont work, but he worries that other nations will build them.

Hey, this may be a good idea. Why not have North Korea, Iran and all the other wacko nations furiously building useless bombs? Just "leak" a warning that the "weapons" are so devastating that they can't be safely tested.

[Bon mots]

All we really need is a little bit of element 115...

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

So, has anyone actually gotten ahold of a dental x-ray machine and tried to duplicate the original work? ... It may well be that there is something specific to the equipment Collins was using.

Its hard to believe that this wouldn't have been done...

[Diogenesis]

That is correct. Therefore, for US security these "people" should be REMOVED.
The Commissioner of Patents should also be removed
because he took part and then covered up and ignored
the DNC giveaway of unissued US patent applications
to the Chinese Commmunists
even as the technology is still withheld from the USA.

[tictoc]

Hafnium in the Table Table

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

I am reminded of the Admiral during WW II who when asked about the atomic bomb...

In his autobiographical memoirs, Edward Teller relates being the front man for the physicists who were trying to get what eventually became the Manhattan District Engineering Project started. He had a meeting with military Brass and some skeptical colonel, whose name Teller mercifully forgets, said, "We've got a goat tethered in Aberdeen proving grounds and there's a five-thousand reward for anyone who can produce a death ray they'll kill it."

The panel asked Teller what they needed to get started. A supply of carbon pure enough to build an atomic reactor had been the biggest impediment up to that time, so he asked for $10,000 to buy the carbon. And that's exactly what they gave him, $10,000 to buy the carbon. Fermi used the carbon to build an atomic reactor in an atheletic facility at the University of Chicago. Word of the first successful man-made atomic chain reaction was relayed to Teller in a telegram containing the cryptic sentence, "The Italian navigator has reached the New World."

I dunno, Hafnium-178 could be this year's Red Mercury or Cold Fusion or Orgon Energy or it could be this year's carbon seed money.

[ASOC]

Got me
While the Lensman series was pure space opera, it did have some very interesting things to say about the human condition....

[ASOC]

You win. MIne is from The Lensman" series by E.E. "Doc" Smith, a good writer and a bright guy.

I thought I ahd read all the good SCiFi around
Reference please? HushaBoom......?

[MHGinTN]

To make bombs with halfnium, you must set it in opposition with holenium, that empty element that sucks up everything ... you know the one, the one used to fill sinkEmperor clinton's teeth?

[Physicist]

Reference please? HushaBoom......?

Rocky and Bullwinkle.

[WaterDragon]

I have no idea how this is going to come out, but it's a fact that every new discovery by scientists has been denounced as 'nonsense' by plenty of other scientists.

[StriperSniper]

O.K. Guys, your MechWarriors are leaving little Hafnium robot turds all over the place.

Hafnium

[GeronL]

Just watch your step everyone!