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California Lawmaker Says Schwarzenegger Is Conservative Enough
GOP USA/Talon ^ | 9/30/03 | Jimmy Moore

Posted on 09/30/2003 6:28:14 AM PDT by RGSpincich

California Lawmaker Says Schwarzenegger Is Conservative Enough By Jimmy Moore Talon News September 30, 2003

SACRAMENTO (Talon News) -- State Sen. Ray Haynes, who has been described by the California media as "one of the most outspoken conservatives in the Legislature," announced his support on Monday for the candidacy of Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger over his political ally and friend, State Sen. Tom McClintock, in the California recall election taking place next Tuesday.

"I have endorsed Arnold Schwarzenegger for Governor," Haynes wrote in an e-mail broadcast to his constituents and fellow conservatives. "I have received a variety of responses to that decision. ... I understand them all."

Haynes said that when the recall was first being discussed, the only elected officials who made public appearances at support rallies were himself and McClintock.

He said they were involved in the effort because of the obvious lack of leadership their state was receiving from Democrat Gov. Gray Davis.

"I believed then, and I believe now, that it is critical to get rid of Gray Davis, and change the direction of this state," Haynes wrote in the e-mail.

He added that Democrat Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante would not be an improvement over Davis if he is elected governor in the recall election.

"I know that Cruz will just be Gray Davis done over," he stated. "In fact, as an ideological true believer (which Davis is not), Cruz could even be worse in some ways."

Haynes said he is proud to have worked closely with Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA), encouraging him to organize the recall effort and get it on the ballot. He said there was some tension between Issa and McClintock during the discussions about who should run as the conservative candidate in the race.

"I know Darrell talked to Tom about not running," Haynes recalled. "Tom ultimately decided not to reconsider. Issa is a strong conservative, and was, more than any other, responsible for the success of the recall, but Tom believed he should be Governor."

Haynes says the conservative movement in California has been hit hard ever since Davis was elected governor in 1998. He said that although former Republican Gov. Pete Wilson was despised by many conservatives for his moderate stand on the issues, Haynes said that at least Wilson vetoed much of the legislation that Davis has now signed into law.

"Wilson was viciously attacked by conservatives (including me) for being too moderate, but he vetoed bills putting sexual orientation in the civil rights laws, domestic partnership bills, every gun bill put on his desk, bills designed to push the homosexual agenda in schools, in our social services, and a variety of other efforts by the left to undermine our culture," Haynes continued in the e-mail. "But in the last five years, Davis has signed all of those bills."

Haynes then turns his attention to the primary subject of his e-mail: Schwarzenegger. Haynes asserted that because he is a conservative, it would be easy for him to support McClintock in the recall race.

"If I had said or done nothing, or endorsed Tom, I could have skated through this entire event without cost to me," Haynes explained.

But he said that the worst thing that could happen to conservatives in California is if McClintock siphons away just enough votes from Schwarzenegger to allow Bustamante to win the election.

"But, if Cruz wins because Tom split the vote, the cost to the conservative movement in California will be immeasurable," Haynes surmised. "I know if Cruz wins, conservatism is California will be discredited for a long time."

Answering the questions that many conservatives have about Schwarzenegger, Haynes believes there are several reasons why conservatives should not be afraid to rally behind the actor-turned-Republican politician.

First, he says Schwarzenegger does not run from the conservative label.

"He is not afraid to call himself a conservative," Haynes maintains. "Many of my moderate friends refuse to even use the word, because they think it damages them. Schwarzenegger used it at the convention, and used it proudly. That is a good thing."

Second, he says that Schwarzenegger understands the basic principles and virtues of conservatism.

"Anyone who says that 'Milton Friedman is right, and Karl Marx is wrong' has the makings of a good conservative, even if he doesn't understand all of the nuances of the political debate," Haynes continued. "When you begin with the right base, the rest is simply good education."

Third, he claims that Schwarzenegger supports the conservative view on the fundamental social issues.

"Schwarzenegger is with us ... [on] parental notification in abortion, and against partial birth abortion ... [and] against gay marriage," Haynes said.

Fourth, he believes Schwarzenegger will support parental choice with education because "he thinks Milton Friedman is right."

Finally, Haynes says that Schwarzenegger possesses a strong influence on economic policy that should be exciting to conservatives.

"[H]e has been quite clear in what he would do to turn the business climate around, and he has pledged to end the car tax," Haynes defends.

Haynes confesses that if this were a Republican primary race that he would undoubtedly be supporting the more conservative McClintock. But he said the "winner take all situation" this election presents makes the decision about who to support much more difficult.

Haynes closes the e-mail by saying the main reason he is supporting Schwarzenegger is to stand up for those conservative principles and values he so strongly believes in.

"The only reason I fight the fight I fight in politics is to advance the principles of family, freedom, and free enterprise which we all share," he states. "I will continue that fight as best I can with the tools available to me, regardless of the outcome of the recall. I will stand with you again on all those fights, no matter who is Governor."

But he does give a clear warning to Schwarzenegger if he becomes the next governor of California.

"[I]f Schwarzenegger wishes to fight us on [conservative] principles I will stand with [conservatives]," Haynes declares.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: haynes; mcclintock; mccrybaby; recall; schwarzenegger
Haynes goes in with his eyes wide open. Arnold will help the conservative cause in California.
1 posted on 09/30/2003 6:28:14 AM PDT by RGSpincich
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To: RGSpincich
Haynes surmised. "I know if Cruz wins, conservatism is California will be discredited for a long time."

How, would conservatism be discredit in a Bustamante administration? Conservatism would be 180 degrees opposite what Bustamante was proposing. So how would a poor record by Bustamante discredit conservatism? What discredits conservatism are "conservatives" who do not maintain conservative principles, but instead flit to a popular fad to gain votes.
2 posted on 09/30/2003 6:31:40 AM PDT by Theodore R.
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To: CheneyChick; FairOpinion; Poohbah; general_re; onyx; RedBloodedAmerican; Hillary's Lovely Legs; ...
ping
Rehash of the Haynes endorsement.
3 posted on 09/30/2003 6:33:28 AM PDT by RGSpincich
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: RGSpincich
Schwarzenegger Is Conservative Enough

He's as conservative as Bush....

5 posted on 09/30/2003 6:41:08 AM PDT by lewislynn
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To: Theodore R.
Because conservatives will be blamed for bringing forth a typhoon of bullshit if they can't make the mud stick to the Dems by winning the election. You don't stand on principle when you organize a recall, you win. The recall is a disruptive process that voids a previous election. Results must be favorable for the side bringing the action or your cause is discredited, period.
6 posted on 09/30/2003 6:42:00 AM PDT by RGSpincich
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To: RGSpincich
Let me add a few important quotes from the actual e-mail, already posted at

Haynes e-mail

Tom believed he was entitled to the Governor's office. This is not a battle over personality; it is a battle over principle. I believe the principles we believe in lost when Darrell pulled out, and they lost because Tom would not even consider anything other than his personal campaign for Governor. We will not advance principle as long as personality trumps principle in these types of disputes.

if Cruz wins because Tom split the vote, the cost to the conservative movement in California will be immeasurable. We started the recall, we need to finish it with a victory. If we lose now, and there is a better than average chance we will if things stay the same, we will rightly bear the criticism that we handed this state over to the Democrats for the next 7 years. Our shortsightedness could cost us the entire war in this state. That is a risk I will not take. I have worked too hard, fought too much for the things we believe in to sacrifice them for my political career, for someone else's ego, or for the shortsightedness of those who are my allies. If I believe we are doing wrong, I am going to do what is right first, and let the politics fall as they may. If that means I must bear the criticism of my friends, then so be it. I know if Cruz wins, conservatism is California will be discredited for a long time.

7 posted on 09/30/2003 6:44:26 AM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: DoctorZIn
ping
8 posted on 09/30/2003 6:45:51 AM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: RGSpincich
State Sen. Ray Haynes must be a RINO according to some McClintock supporters here.
9 posted on 09/30/2003 6:47:06 AM PDT by finnman69 (!)
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To: seamole; RGSpincich
Nobody is ever "Conservative Enough".

Unfortunately, so long as there are places like California and New York, where "conservatism" and "electability" are inversely related, the phrase "conservative enough" will continue to be a necessary part of the lexicon.

10 posted on 09/30/2003 6:48:01 AM PDT by general_re (SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Quitting Sarcasm Now Greatly Reduces Serious Risks To Your Health.)
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To: FairOpinion
A noble decision. Will McClintock get the message?
11 posted on 09/30/2003 6:49:48 AM PDT by republicanwizard
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To: RGSpincich
"I know if Cruz wins, conservatism is California will be discredited for a long time."

First of all, neither Haynes, nor that whole lot of GOP champions had any hand in initiatiting this recall! Second, If cruz wins, the win will be directly attributable to the p*ss-poor political maneuvering by republicans in this State, that has gone on for years. The GOP in California has no one to blame but itself!
12 posted on 09/30/2003 6:50:32 AM PDT by old school
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To: FairOpinion
"...I believe the principles we believe in lost when Darrell pulled out, and they lost because Tom would not even consider anything other than his personal campaign for Governor...." State Sen. Ray Haynes

So much for the "principled" one.

13 posted on 09/30/2003 6:51:32 AM PDT by RGSpincich
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To: RGSpincich

14 posted on 09/30/2003 6:51:50 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: RGSpincich
"Wilson was viciously attacked by conservatives (including me) for being too moderate, but he vetoed bills putting sexual orientation in the civil rights laws, domestic partnership bills, every gun bill put on his desk, bills designed to push the homosexual agenda in schools, in our social services, and a variety of other efforts by the left to undermine our culture," Haynes continued in the e-mail. "But in the last five years, Davis has signed all of those bills."

This illustrates how dangerous it is for conservatives to split the anti-Davis/Bustamante vote. If McClintock were leading Schwarzenegger, wouldn't we all want Arnold to drop out ?

Yes, and Tom should unite with the party now to defeat Davis/Bustamante.

15 posted on 09/30/2003 6:52:46 AM PDT by af_vet_1981
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To: af_vet_1981
This illustrates how dangerous it is for conservatives to split the anti-Davis/Bustamante vote. If McClintock were leading Schwarzenegger, wouldn't we all want Arnold to drop out ?

I think I would reword that, because even if McC were leading Arnold, he would not win.

How about "If McC had a snowballs chance in hell of winning, would we want Arnold to drop out"

The answer would be yes. But even if Arnold dropped out, McC wouldn't get the votes. Heck, even if McC was the ONLY candidate, he wouldn't win.

16 posted on 09/30/2003 6:56:22 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: finnman69
Ray Haynes is a true conservative and Republican. Unlike McClintock, who clearly has been in this race from day 1, NOT to benefit California, the Republican party, and the conservative cause, but for EGO. It is very clear from Haynes' recount of past events and that McC has been refusing to graciously bow out of the race.

I think those who are still supporting McClintock need to really stop and think: do they want to be true principled conservatives, like Haynes and heed his advice, or do they want to go down in history as members of the McClintock personal cult, and possibly be responsible for a huge setback to the conservative cause, by getting Bustamante into office, or leaving Davis in.

I posted some quotes from the Haynes letter in my post 7, which should help them decide.
17 posted on 09/30/2003 6:56:39 AM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: RGSpincich
What is the likely outcome in CA? - Arnold (Rep) wins with less than 50% of vote. All politicians get 100% behind the new Gov & all tye ills of CA are solved within 3 months.

Or, Arnold wins & meets with so much bickering from both conservatives (Reps) and dims that feel they got the shaft in the whole recall fiasco that nothing gets done. Arnold & Reps get the blame for not fixing everything in short order. Reps lose ground in next CA elections - Arnold tarred & feathered for not doing anything, run out of state on a rail & deported to Austria where he lives out his life in shame & obscurity.
18 posted on 09/30/2003 7:02:00 AM PDT by familyofman
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To: RGSpincich
Haynes closes the e-mail by saying the main reason he is supporting Schwarzenegger is to stand up for those conservative principles and values he so strongly believes in . . .

It is astonishing the depths of self-delusion to which a power-starved moral coward will descend in his quest to obtain the merest illusion of power.

Haynes joins the first rank of contemptible quislings who have betrayed conservatism.

19 posted on 09/30/2003 7:03:18 AM PDT by Kevin Curry (McClintock would not only win, he would win in a landslide)
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To: old school
First of all, neither Haynes, nor that whole lot of GOP champions had any hand in initiatiting this recall!

I'm really torn on who to believe here. Not.

Haynes full statement

"Second, I spent considerable time trying to help make the recall successful. Early on, the recall sputtered. It was moving, but not nearly fast enough. I knew then, as I know now, that once the recall qualified, Gray Davis would lose his job. The serious question was whether the recall would qualify. I talked with a number of people trying to find the money to get it qualified, and ultimately, was one of the people who helped persuade Darrell Issa to put up the money to qualify it ..."

Without Haynes and Issa the recall would have been a bust.

20 posted on 09/30/2003 7:07:03 AM PDT by RGSpincich
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To: Kevin Curry
Get over yourself, man.
21 posted on 09/30/2003 7:08:51 AM PDT by Defiant (Half a loaf is better than none. Support Arnold, and don't pinch a loaf!)
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To: RGSpincich
"But, if Cruz wins because Tom split the vote, the cost to the conservative movement in California will be immeasurable," Haynes surmised. "I know if Cruz wins, conservatism is California will be discredited for a long time."

Precisely right. The people actually helping the conservative cause are those supporting Arnold, not those cats chasing the McClintock catnip.

22 posted on 09/30/2003 7:12:33 AM PDT by KellyAdmirer
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To: lewislynn
He's as conservative as Bush....

No comment.

23 posted on 09/30/2003 8:03:12 AM PDT by jmc813 (How ironic is it that Arnold turned out to be the spoiler?)
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To: FairOpinion
if Cruz wins because Tom split the vote

This is a moot argument. Cruz is NOT going to win, regardless of who is in the race. I'd be willing to bet a thousand bucks on it.

24 posted on 09/30/2003 8:04:47 AM PDT by jmc813 (How ironic is it that Arnold turned out to be the spoiler?)
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To: finnman69
State Sen. Ray Haynes must be a RINO according to some McClintock supporters here.

Not every Arnold supporter is a RINO, though several are. There are many solid conservatives who have logically sound reasons for voting for Arnold.

One of my favorite FReepers to read, Traviss McGee, is voting for Arnold, and he's so conservative, his views on guns would scare the heck out of the liberal/moderate FReepers.

25 posted on 09/30/2003 8:07:01 AM PDT by jmc813 (How ironic is it that Arnold turned out to be the spoiler?)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
I think I would reword that, because even if McC were leading Arnold, he would not win.

Polls released yesterday strongly indicate otherwise, hence my tagline.

26 posted on 09/30/2003 8:08:29 AM PDT by jmc813 (How ironic is it that Arnold turned out to be the spoiler?)
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To: RGSpincich
Join Us…Your One Thread To All The California Recall News Threads!

Want on our daily or major news ping lists? Freepmail DoctorZin

27 posted on 09/30/2003 8:15:03 AM PDT by DoctorZIn
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To: af_vet_1981
I'm confused, so can you help me?

Wouldn't each of the issues Ray addressed be supported by Arnie as Gov, the same as Davis signed them?

If that is so, based on Arnie's web site, why is Ray supporting Arnie?

And, am I to understand that if the poll numbers were reversed today, that you believe Arnie campaign would withdraw in favor of uniting behind Tom for the last week? Is that what you are saying? TIA
28 posted on 09/30/2003 8:23:54 AM PDT by christynsoldier (FACTA, NON VERBA ( Deeds , Not Words))
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
would you agree that the Gallup poll says the opposite of your last sentence?? In head to head with Busta, Arnie won 58 to 30 something, while with the exact same sampling head to head with Busta, Tom won 56 to 30 something...

so are you saying you don't believe the poll that has Arnie at 40 to Busta 25, or are you picking and choosing which part to believe and which to discard? TIA
29 posted on 09/30/2003 8:27:41 AM PDT by christynsoldier (FACTA, NON VERBA ( Deeds , Not Words))
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To: Kevin Curry
"Haynes said that when the recall was first being discussed, the only elected officials who made public appearances at support rallies were himself and McClintock."

I whole heartedly agree!!! It's obvious who really has the ulterior motives and hopes to cover his differential from the "bandwagon" effect!!! Ray "the lawyer" Haynes has finally shown his "Monte Hall" side for all conservatives to see!!!

30 posted on 09/30/2003 8:28:45 AM PDT by SierraWasp (I prefer consistent "Considerate Conservatives," to "Compassionate Conservatives," everytime !!!)
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To: christynsoldier
Read the poll again.
31 posted on 09/30/2003 8:30:47 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: Kevin Curry
although true Kev, don't be so hard on Ray... he held out the longest against the barrage of threats to destroy him in the next election and everybody wants to get in on the great retirement plan...

just a question of fear and economics, and these guys are just citizen legislators, not the founding fathers... at least there are term limits to give them courage in the last years of their career... timing is everything!
32 posted on 09/30/2003 8:31:39 AM PDT by christynsoldier (FACTA, NON VERBA ( Deeds , Not Words))
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To: KellyAdmirer
"But, if Cruz wins because Tom split the vote, the cost to the conservative movement in California will be immeasurable," Haynes surmised. "I know if Cruz wins, conservatism is California will be discredited for a long time."

Thi guy is supporting a Clinton Republican and he is worried about discrediting conservatism? --------------------------------------------------

Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. ~ George Orwell ~

NewspeakOceanic Society in 1984 depended upon control of its subjects. In order to keep them in line, the government created a language called Newspeak.

This language was designed so that it would be impossible for people to even think the wrong thing, as there would be no words to express there feelings.

Carry on! Yea Arnold is Consevative ENOUGH... Ask his hero Warren Buffett..


33 posted on 09/30/2003 8:33:21 AM PDT by Afronaut (Zombie voters For Liberals)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
answer please?
34 posted on 09/30/2003 8:34:41 AM PDT by christynsoldier (FACTA, NON VERBA ( Deeds , Not Words))
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To: christynsoldier
Look at the percentages between Bust and McC on the poll you are referring to (assuming you are referring to the recent Gallup Poll).

Then look at it under REGISTERED VOTERS. (This filters out Americans elsewhere (and, how easy is it to claim to be a registered CA voter in a simple poll?))

Now look at the very bottom of the poll at the italicized notes.

See the "±4%"? So, now subtract 4% from McC and add 4% to Bust for the poll numbers given under REGISTERED VOTERS between the two.

What's your numbers you come up with? Please let me know in a reply, thanks. Maybe my math is wrong.

If you were referring to the CNN poll, I wouldn't even waste my time with it. I didn't believe it even when it reported Bush's high approval post 9-11. Consider the source.
35 posted on 09/30/2003 8:44:27 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
so you are going to dismiss the results based on interpreting the margin of error and taking each
extreme margin and adding the two????????

so what would you suspect the probability of that
scenerio happening be? is that perhaps in the
"astonomical" catagory? ... I thought so

what was that old canard about statistics and lies,
hmmmmmmm??? ;^)
36 posted on 09/30/2003 9:55:49 AM PDT by christynsoldier (FACTA, NON VERBA ( Deeds , Not Words))
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To: christynsoldier
I based McC's chances of winning on a poll lookng at all the info, and that includes margin errors. Polls don't reflect what will happen, though.

McC has a better chance of being invited to Busta's victory party, if Busta was to win over Arnold.
37 posted on 09/30/2003 10:03:14 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: RGSpincich
Arnold will help the conservative cause in California.

How so?

38 posted on 09/30/2003 10:50:55 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: old school
If cruz wins, the win will be directly attributable to the p*ss-poor political maneuvering by republicans in this State, that has gone on for years. The GOP in California has no one to blame but itself!

You know it.

This is yet another example of the CA Republicans spinning their wheels.

39 posted on 09/30/2003 10:53:32 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: af_vet_1981
he vetoed bills putting sexual orientation in the civil rights laws, domestic partnership bills, every gun bill put on his desk, bills designed to push the homosexual agenda in schools, in our social services, and a variety of other efforts by the left to undermine our culture,"

Schwarzenegger supports all those bills and agendas.

His argument makes no sense.

40 posted on 09/30/2003 10:55:16 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: KellyAdmirer
The people actually helping the conservative cause are those supporting Arnold

How so?

41 posted on 09/30/2003 10:57:07 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: christynsoldier
Wouldn't each of the issues Ray addressed be supported by Arnie as Gov, the same as Davis signed them?

No, none of them. You've been snookered.

42 posted on 09/30/2003 11:04:05 AM PDT by RGSpincich
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To: RGSpincich
I see no way that untried conservatism could be discredited if it is not accepted by the voters. That's "proving a negative." McClintock or Bust for me.
43 posted on 09/30/2003 11:26:24 AM PDT by Theodore R.
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To: RGSpincich
oh, how so, please elaborate...

see post #40

can you post anything from Arnie's campaign that says HE would oppose the addition of sexual orientation in civil right? Arnie supports domestic partners, is pro gun control and wants to close the nonexistant gun show loophole, and is supportive of the homosexual agenda in schools and social services...

who's been snookered? ... please post the relevant speeches/issue statements!

ps... you know they don't exist, but am interested in your spin... TIA
44 posted on 09/30/2003 11:30:28 AM PDT by christynsoldier (FACTA, NON VERBA ( Deeds , Not Words))
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To: CARepubGal
ping
45 posted on 10/12/2003 7:16:31 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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