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Cardinal: Pope in "a bad way"
Reuters/Fox News ^

Posted on 09/30/2003 7:15:09 AM PDT by Dog

German Cardinal Says Pope 'In a Very Bad Way' Tue September 30, 2003 08:23 AM ET BERLIN (Reuters) - Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the German head of the Vatican body which oversees doctrinal matters, was quoted on Tuesday as saying Pope John Paul was in very poor health and the faithful should pray for him. "He is in a very bad way," Ratzinger told Germany's Bunte magazine in an interview. "We should pray for the pope."

Ratzinger, who heads the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, told the magazine that the 83-year-old pope had taken on too much, but he was unable to stop him.

The increasingly frail pope was particularly weak earlier this month on a trip to Slovakia and needed help reading his sermons. Last week, he skipped his general audience because of what the Vatican said was an intestinal problem.

Ratzinger's private secretary, Georg Gaenswein, said it was amazing how the pope, who suffers from Parkinson's Disease, kept going.

"He can't walk and stand anymore but he is a hero for the faithful. The fact that he doesn't give up despite his illness makes him even more credible," Gaenswein told Bunte.

He said the pope would not give up traveling. "When he is no longer allowed to travel, then dear God will come for him," Gaenswein said.

The leader of the world's one billion Roman Catholics, who marks his 25th anniversary next month, appointed 31 new cardinals on Sunday, possibly putting his last stamp on the group that will one day choose his successor.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: biggotry; catholic; catholicchurch; catholicism; catholiclist; dogma; johnpaul; nobel; nobelprize; pax; peace; pope; popejohnpaul; rc; rcc; romanempire; rome; snakehandling; vatican
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To: bondserv
Scripture knowledge, being the greatest.

Knowledge of Scripture is a good thing, but it doesn't save anyone unless it's put into action.

Why put the blame on the Church for your parents' failure to educate themselves? The information is out there. All you have to do is pick up a phone or log on to a website and order it.

161 posted on 09/30/2003 12:06:59 PM PDT by Campion
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To: kinghorse
What does all this mean?

In the question lies the answer.

162 posted on 09/30/2003 12:08:03 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: Campion
Yet you don't. Why?

Who says I don't think she was blessed but how does that become immaculate conception, dispensitrix of all graces, queen of heaven, assumed into heaven, ever virgin, able to hear and answer prayers and a hundred other things ascribed to her? It doesn't.

163 posted on 09/30/2003 12:08:55 PM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrisssssssstian)
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To: MineralMan
Am I one of "them?" As an atheist, I'd say not. You want a comparative doctrine thread? Start one. The Pope is dying, and scores of millions of Catholics are upset by that. What's your point in coming into the thread to trash RCC doctrine?

Go somewhere else, please.

I fear your efforts are in vain here. You are asking the classless to show some class. News of the Pope's passing will delight this person. What's so Christian about that attitude?

164 posted on 09/30/2003 12:10:40 PM PDT by presidio9 (Countdown to 27 World Championships...)
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To: presidio9
I've done nothing of the sort. Your carnal reaction to a challenge is sure telling though. Your "who said anything bad about Catholicism" sensors are honed sharper than the Taliban. Criticize biblical Christianity and we will usually quote the bible.
165 posted on 09/30/2003 12:12:00 PM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrisssssssstian)
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To: biblewonk
Then why do you just call her "Mary"?

As to your question: simple. Her Son was the Creator of the Universe, and also the One who commanded "Honor thy Father and thy Mother".

Think about what it means for God, who "does all things well," to honor his mother ... perfectly. Then go and do likewise.

166 posted on 09/30/2003 12:12:06 PM PDT by Campion
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To: biblewonk
"Who says I don't think she was blessed but how does that become immaculate conception, dispensitrix of all graces, queen of heaven, assumed into heaven, ever virgin, able to hear and answer prayers and a hundred other things ascribed to her? It doesn't.
"

Why do you care what people believe? You are not a Catholic. This is not a thread about RCC doctrine, nor do you have your facts straight about RCC doctrine in the first place. This is the thread about the impending death of the leader of the Roman Catholic Church.

Perhaps you've forgotten that. Perhaps you'd like to take your contempt for the beliefs of Roman Catholics somewhere else and broadcast it.
167 posted on 09/30/2003 12:12:16 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan; biblewonk
This is not a thread about RCC doctrine, nor do you have your facts straight about RCC doctrine in the first place.

Thank you.

You know, biblewonk...I've lurked on religious threads here for years. You are more obsessed with Mary than any Catholic I know - by far.

168 posted on 09/30/2003 12:15:29 PM PDT by RosieCotton
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To: presidio9
"I fear your efforts are in vain here. You are asking the classless to show some class. News of the Pope's passing will delight this person. What's so Christian about that attitude?

I suppose you're right, but I feel that I must make an effort. I'm not even a Christian, much less a Catholic, but I sure hate seeing a thread about the death of the leader of scores of millions of people hijacked by those who dislike what they think are the teachings of the RCC.

I'm saddened by the Pope's illness. I've seen four Popes in my lifetime, and seen three of them become Pope. It's clear that, as the leader of the largest denomination of Christianity, the Pope deserves respect, whether or not you hold the same beliefs.

I'm sad to see some Freepers take this occasion to begin another whining thread about their disagreement with RCC doctrine, or what they think is RCC doctrine. I wish they would take it somewhere else.
169 posted on 09/30/2003 12:15:56 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: biblewonk
Stop trying to make this about me. This is about your classless decision to attack Catholic doctrine on a thread about the Pope's failing health. The fact that you would intentionally spread lies about Catholic theology to an audience of mostly Catholics is a further testament to your charachter. The fact that you have twice now compared my behavior to that of those devoted to radical islam while trying to establish a discourse on how your method of worship is superior is symptomatic of that character.

(or lack thereof)

If there is such a thing, you are a sleazy "Christian."

170 posted on 09/30/2003 12:19:38 PM PDT by presidio9 (Countdown to 27 World Championships...)
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To: MineralMan
Your opinion is duly noted. Blessed are the peacemakers.

Acknowledge your Creator.
171 posted on 09/30/2003 12:20:00 PM PDT by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible, i.e. WORDS MEAN THINGS)
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To: Cronos
Thank you, Cronos. I agree the Nobel Prize would not puff up the Pope. His life itself has been noble and no award could further embellish it.

I would hope the award bestowed on this Pope would inspire other world leaders and clerics to aspire to higher goals and to emulate John Paul as well as they can. Christian flocks everywhere would also be proud and would be invigorated, IMO.

Though the Nobel Prize has been debased for many years with awards given to those undeserving of it, John Paul's recognition would restore some of its original luster.

All this brings to mind Clintoon's nomination for the award and his subsequent attempts to buy it. Shameful! Thank God he didn't get away with it.

Leni

172 posted on 09/30/2003 12:22:20 PM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: OldFriend
Yes,I remember it vividly. Since I am quasi-fluent in Italian, I was translating his words as he spoke for my friend. I then realized, I had my own audience of American tourists. The natives were all screaming "Viva Il Papa" like he was some kind of rock star. Very interesting.
173 posted on 09/30/2003 12:22:32 PM PDT by stanz (Those who don't believe in evolution should go jump off the flat edge of the Earth.)
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To: newgeezer
"Your opinion is duly noted. Blessed are the peacemakers.

Acknowledge your Creator."

I acknowledge that millions believe in a Creator. I also acknowledge your quotation from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount. If you are a Christian, then I recommend a close reading of that chapter of Matthew before beginning an attack on any denomination of Christianity.

Peacemaking and polite behavior around people who are mourning or even simply saddened at the impending death of a religious leader is not just a Christian attribute. It's simple common sense.

Try politeness in these threads, please. You'll find a ready ear and have politeness returned to you.

Acknowledge your social responsibilities.
174 posted on 09/30/2003 12:23:16 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan
Let me also thank you for you kind opinion. You personality is a lot more "Christian" than either of these two individuals. John Paul II is a great man, responsible for both spiritual and political change throughout his life. The world will be a poorer place without him.
175 posted on 09/30/2003 12:23:35 PM PDT by presidio9 (Countdown to 27 World Championships...)
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To: bondserv
2 Tim 3:16-17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

The "man of God" referred to here is a priest. Citation of this passage also begs the question, "what is Scripture?" At the time that this letter was written, the Scriptures referred to the Old Testament. The New Testament was yet to be determined. Finally, this does not obviate the validity of Oral Tradition, which Paul mentions (2 Thes 2:15)

2 Tim 2:15-16

15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

This too begs the question regarding the canon of Scripture. Certainly "vain babblings" should be shunned, but this does not refer to the traditions passed down by the Apostles, as Paul states: "(2 Thessalonians 2:15) So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter."

How are we to know the vain babblings of men, by searching the scriptures to test what they say.

But Scripture warns us against the dangers of private interpretation of Scripture:

2 Peter 3

16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

This points out the necessity for an infallible interpretation of divine revelation. This role is appropriate for Christ's Church, "the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15)."

Acts 17:10-11

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Again, they were searching the Old Testament. And this doesn't contradict the validity of Oral Tradition (as Paul states above).

176 posted on 09/30/2003 12:23:46 PM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: stanz
The early spring crowd was quiet and respectful. Lots of little girls in their communion dresses. It was quite a sight.....
177 posted on 09/30/2003 12:25:46 PM PDT by OldFriend (DEMS INHABIT A PARALLEL UNIVERSE)
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To: presidio9
"Let me also thank you for you kind opinion. You personality is a lot more "Christian" than either of these two individuals. John Paul II is a great man, responsible for both spiritual and political change throughout his life. The world will be a poorer place without him.
"

Thank you. Polite respect for religious leaders isn't exclusively a Christian quality. It's simply a recognition that many people revere this man, and that those people deserve our respect during a difficult time.

This Pope has steadfastly spoken for peace on the planet. Sometimes that speech angers some here on Free Republic, but the Pope is not a US citizen and has no particular responsibility to our nation, or to any other.

I admire that steadfastness, even when I may disagree with it. I've not heard this Pope every say a word in anger. I've seen nothing in him that deserves anything but respect.

Although I am a completely non-religious person, I recognize the importance religious belief has in people's lives. That, alone, is reason enough to be saddened when a great religious leader who speaks of peace is ill and close to death. It is also plenty of reason for those who have petty disagreements with the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church to hold their tongues at this time.

I consider Jesus' teachings about how to treat others to be the best stated of such teachings from any religion. It is a shame that more do not study them.
178 posted on 09/30/2003 12:30:33 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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Blah, not to get anyone's panties in a wad, but still pulling on the flame retardant jumpsuit. I've heard for years that the original word for "virgin" wasn't translated correctly. It really meant a woman who had not married, of course assuming that all women who had not yet married were to be virgins.

Any level headed responses welcomed. FYI, I was raised Catholic.
179 posted on 09/30/2003 12:31:06 PM PDT by mtbopfuyn
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To: Notwithstanding
We may not be have an allegiance to Rome, but we are Christians and most of can recognize a good man when we see one. Frankly, I have no patience for people who dwell on our disagreements, real and serious as they may be, instead of the greater part that we share with our Roman Catholic (and Orthodox) brethren.
180 posted on 09/30/2003 12:33:38 PM PDT by katana
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