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Cardinal: Pope in "a bad way"
Reuters/Fox News ^

Posted on 09/30/2003 7:15:09 AM PDT by Dog

German Cardinal Says Pope 'In a Very Bad Way' Tue September 30, 2003 08:23 AM ET BERLIN (Reuters) - Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the German head of the Vatican body which oversees doctrinal matters, was quoted on Tuesday as saying Pope John Paul was in very poor health and the faithful should pray for him. "He is in a very bad way," Ratzinger told Germany's Bunte magazine in an interview. "We should pray for the pope."

Ratzinger, who heads the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, told the magazine that the 83-year-old pope had taken on too much, but he was unable to stop him.

The increasingly frail pope was particularly weak earlier this month on a trip to Slovakia and needed help reading his sermons. Last week, he skipped his general audience because of what the Vatican said was an intestinal problem.

Ratzinger's private secretary, Georg Gaenswein, said it was amazing how the pope, who suffers from Parkinson's Disease, kept going.

"He can't walk and stand anymore but he is a hero for the faithful. The fact that he doesn't give up despite his illness makes him even more credible," Gaenswein told Bunte.

He said the pope would not give up traveling. "When he is no longer allowed to travel, then dear God will come for him," Gaenswein said.

The leader of the world's one billion Roman Catholics, who marks his 25th anniversary next month, appointed 31 new cardinals on Sunday, possibly putting his last stamp on the group that will one day choose his successor.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: biggotry; catholic; catholicchurch; catholicism; catholiclist; dogma; johnpaul; nobel; nobelprize; pax; peace; pope; popejohnpaul; rc; rcc; romanempire; rome; snakehandling; vatican
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To: biblewonk
I am not denying Christ's humanity.

You absolutely are. You are denying that he had a mother, despite all of the Scripture that explicitly says he did. Moreover, you make God endorse surrogate motherhood, a morally vile act.

Your "biblical Christianity" is neither one.

Your misinterpretation of the Hebrews passage about Melchizedek is hilarious. It's a great example of how someone who really doesn't understand Scripture can twist any sort of bizarre meaning out of it by taking one verse out of its full context. The reference is to the genealogy one had to produce to be a priest in the temple under the Old Law. It is not literally claiming that Melchizedek had no parents, but that he did not have to prove Levitical descent, since he was not under Mosaic law.

201 posted on 09/30/2003 12:53:46 PM PDT by Campion
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To: biblewonk
Are you one of those Snakehandler Christians?

Is that what your tag-line means?
202 posted on 09/30/2003 12:53:58 PM PDT by katnip
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To: katnip
I havent been on this thread for about 2 hours. I come back and just look at this place! It's turning into a US vs Them thread regarding Catholicism. Too Bad. I'm not even Catholic and I have a great respect for this Pope. This should be taken to another thread.
203 posted on 09/30/2003 12:59:30 PM PDT by Delbert
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To: SoothingDave
How is Adam genetically related to? Who says Jesus has to be genetically related to His Mother? That verse sure says He is not. Since that verse says He is not related to her then that clearly leaves no one.
204 posted on 09/30/2003 1:05:36 PM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrisssssssstian)
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To: MineralMan
Since you insist on prolonging your lecture, I'll respond.

If you are correct in your atheistic assertion that there is no God, how do you presume to define "politeness" for me or anyone else? Without God, there is no true right or wrong; such things are simply a matter of perspective or opinion.

Perhaps you're relying on majority rule, society, or some such thing. If so, you'll just have to consider the possibility that I'm ahead of my time. No matter how harsh or impolite one might be toward you, you'll really have to wonder if it's just a preview of the 22nd Century society's politeness.

If we're trading reading recommendations, try Romans 1.

205 posted on 09/30/2003 1:06:01 PM PDT by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible, i.e. WORDS MEAN THINGS)
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To: Delbert
I come back and just look at this place! It's turning into a US vs Them thread regarding Catholicism. Too Bad. I'm not even Catholic and I have a great respect for this Pope. This should be taken to another thread.

On the contrary: There are two misguided individuals who can not resist attacking Catholicism every chance they get. News of the Pope's death will bring them comfort and joy. Their version of Christianity is very foreign to me. On the other hand, they have been greatly outnumbered but Protestants and other Non-Catholics who have taken to opportunity to aknoledge the holiness of this Pope and their sorrow at his current condition. That attitude is very familiar to me as a Christian.

206 posted on 09/30/2003 1:09:25 PM PDT by presidio9 (Countdown to 27 World Championships...)
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To: SoothingDave
Luke 1:26-33

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

She's his Mom. In every sense of the word. Even genetically. But you already knew that. It's other people that are uncomfortable with the Incarnation.

And what this has to do with the Pope's ill health, I haven't a clue.

May God grant him the Grace of final perseverance, and a crown of justice (2Tim4:8) when his race is finally run.

207 posted on 09/30/2003 1:12:53 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: Dog
Wish they'd let Popes retire. This gentleman has been ill for a long time. Last time I saw him on TV, he was drooling. How sad.
208 posted on 09/30/2003 1:14:16 PM PDT by MEGoody
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To: biblewonk
Since that verse says He is not related to her then that clearly leaves no one.

Then if Jesus is "clearly" unrelated to any existing human, in what way does He "redeem" humanity?

SD

209 posted on 09/30/2003 1:14:37 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: biblewonk
Who says Jesus has to be genetically related to His Mother?

Human nature requires that he be genetically related to Adam and Eve. That's practically the definition of "human nature". Sorry.

The idea that Mary was just Jesus' surrogate mother is as toxic and unBiblical as the Mormon idea that she had physical intercourse with God the Father.

210 posted on 09/30/2003 1:16:04 PM PDT by Campion
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To: Campion
"Then why do you just call her "Mary"?"

Why would you call a sister in Christ anything else?

211 posted on 09/30/2003 1:19:00 PM PDT by MEGoody
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To: MEGoody
Why not obey Scripture?
212 posted on 09/30/2003 1:20:27 PM PDT by Campion
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To: biblewonk
verses about the EARTH being round: NONE

verses about the Earth being flat : Genesis chapter one

Do you believe the earth is flat?
213 posted on 09/30/2003 1:21:05 PM PDT by PaulZe
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To: biblewonk
I thought Jesus taught us to believe as little children... Does your continued argument mean that only those that can read and interpret intellectually are saved? Or..should the uneducated let those that "tickle their ears" lead them to the Lord with their "human" interpretation?

I have been raised a Catholic and I have assimilated over the years that... Catholics study the "WORD" whom is Jesus... It seems those that study the "words" seem th be very judgemental, they have all the answers..hmmmm

I think a preschool child that opens a pictoral Bible to look at the pictures of Jesus will be touched as profoundly by the HOLY SPIRIT as any so called human "Bible Scholar". "Judge not lest you be judged."

Hmmm I wonder where I read that? Can you enlighten me?

214 posted on 09/30/2003 1:22:10 PM PDT by Bob Eimiller (Kennedy... Leahy... Moran... Kucinich........ any more Catholic abortion promoters?)
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To: newgeezer
"If you are correct in your atheistic assertion that there is no God, how do you presume to define "politeness" for me or anyone else? Without God, there is no true right or wrong; such things are simply a matter of perspective or opinion.

Perhaps you're relying on majority rule, society, or some such thing. If so, you'll just have to consider the possibility that I'm ahead of my time. No matter how harsh or impolite one might be toward you, you'll really have to wonder if it's just a preview of the 22nd Century society's politeness.

If we're trading reading recommendations, try Romans 1."

One need not believe in a deity to learn about being polite. Politeness is something that transcends religious beliefs, and you'll find that most every culture and society values polite behavior.

My mother taught me the basic rules of polite society before I was 5 years old. Play nice with others. Don't comment on people's appearance. Respect the beliefs of others. And above all, "If you can't say something nice about someone, keep your mouth shut."

What is going on here violates those basic rules. A man who has the respect of millions of people, on religious and secular grounds, is dying. As you may suspect, I disagree with the man's theological ideas, but this is neither the time nor place for a theological discussion. Out of respect for our fellow human beings, it is a time to express sympathy for their loss. If one cannot do that, in this thread, one should maintain silence. There will be other opportunities for you to wax eloquent about the errors of Roman Catholic doctrine.

As for your supposition that the 22nd Century world will abandon polite behavior, I hope you are wrong. I will not live to see that century, but in the 21st, I will continue to do as my mother taught me. I've found it to work very well in my relationships with a wide spectrum of people. Perhaps you've found the opposite to be true, but I doubt it.

As I said, there will be ample threads for you to discuss your disagreements with Roman Catholic doctrine. This is not one of those threads. This is a thread about a dying man and the feelings of those who respect and revere him.

Common courtesy is a good thing, I think.
215 posted on 09/30/2003 1:24:55 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Rutles4Ever
Catholics honor and praise [Mary] for her free will acceptance of the seed of the Holy Spirit -- not a small undertaking for a 12 year old girl

12? Why do you say she was 12?

216 posted on 09/30/2003 1:25:12 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp
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To: Cronos
Oops. You're right. I have several Chaldean and Christian Lebanese friends here in the Detroit area. I was using the Arab word more geographically than ethnically. Muslim it is.
217 posted on 09/30/2003 1:29:23 PM PDT by germanicus
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To: Campion
"Why not obey Scripture?"

Sure I agree she is blessed. But I don't refer to her as 'blessed Mary' every time I talk about her. After all, we are all blessed in the Lord.

218 posted on 09/30/2003 1:29:53 PM PDT by MEGoody
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To: Bob Eimiller; All
JR told me to stay off this thread.
219 posted on 09/30/2003 1:30:35 PM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrisssssssstian)
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To: John O
I lean more toward Elijah and Moses myself. But then we've discussed this before and will make no headway in convincing each other

I have thought that perhaps the two witnesses are Elijah and Enoch. Both were taken to heaven without dying....

220 posted on 09/30/2003 1:31:16 PM PDT by Netizen
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