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Cardinal: Pope in "a bad way"
Reuters/Fox News ^

Posted on 09/30/2003 7:15:09 AM PDT by Dog

German Cardinal Says Pope 'In a Very Bad Way' Tue September 30, 2003 08:23 AM ET BERLIN (Reuters) - Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the German head of the Vatican body which oversees doctrinal matters, was quoted on Tuesday as saying Pope John Paul was in very poor health and the faithful should pray for him. "He is in a very bad way," Ratzinger told Germany's Bunte magazine in an interview. "We should pray for the pope."

Ratzinger, who heads the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, told the magazine that the 83-year-old pope had taken on too much, but he was unable to stop him.

The increasingly frail pope was particularly weak earlier this month on a trip to Slovakia and needed help reading his sermons. Last week, he skipped his general audience because of what the Vatican said was an intestinal problem.

Ratzinger's private secretary, Georg Gaenswein, said it was amazing how the pope, who suffers from Parkinson's Disease, kept going.

"He can't walk and stand anymore but he is a hero for the faithful. The fact that he doesn't give up despite his illness makes him even more credible," Gaenswein told Bunte.

He said the pope would not give up traveling. "When he is no longer allowed to travel, then dear God will come for him," Gaenswein said.

The leader of the world's one billion Roman Catholics, who marks his 25th anniversary next month, appointed 31 new cardinals on Sunday, possibly putting his last stamp on the group that will one day choose his successor.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: biggotry; catholic; catholicchurch; catholicism; catholiclist; dogma; johnpaul; nobel; nobelprize; pax; peace; pope; popejohnpaul; rc; rcc; romanempire; rome; snakehandling; vatican
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To: Jeremiah Jr
The two witnesses are Jews and Christians

I lean more toward Elijah and Moses myself. But then we've discussed this before and will make no headway in convincing each other

61 posted on 09/30/2003 9:39:56 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: SengirV
Instead it appears that the pope doesn't care. When really it's more like he is out of touch with the people.

There is another possibility which is that it is beyond his control. A very frail elderly man, even with paper powers that are absolute, is not in the best position to reign in evil doers on the other side of the world. That would take tremendous energy and organization, things that are probably beyond his ability at this point.

While somewhat sensational the books of Malachi Martin describe the insider goings on in the Vatican. Like any other huge organization (think Federal Government) there are competeing interests and power bases. Look at how stymmied Bush has been in some areas. Look how intractible liberalism is in places like the State Department. Similar forces may be preventing JP from the big house cleaning he would no doubt like to instigate.

62 posted on 09/30/2003 9:41:23 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: VRWC_minion
Why does he hang on so long? One of his main messages has been the sacred nature of human life, all life. Even the old, the sick and the unborn. While secularists would no doubt be happy to take people in his condition and give them "physician assissted suicide" John Paul is giving a living demonstration of the importance that even one very sick old man has on the world. He is setting an example, and living his words. In so doing he is protecting all of us from the brave new world where people are devalued and degraded.
63 posted on 09/30/2003 9:46:55 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Dog
I don't doubt that it is likely that JPII is rapidly headed towards the end of his pontificate, but all the same I should dispel some ideas people have that Ratzinger is the ultimate source of "the truth" about papal health. Ratzinger and the Pope are very close intellectually and theologically, but have never been especially personally close. That's importnant, in that it means that Ratzinger isn't as keyed in to the state of the Pontiff's health as say, Navarro-Valls, or some of the papal chamberlains, who aren't saying much. We've seen the papal "death watch" a few times before in the last 10 years.
64 posted on 09/30/2003 9:48:18 AM PDT by Paladin2b
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To: Campion
Your pastor is, no doubt, someone you selected, and you consider yourself free to walk away from him as soon as your own reading of Scripture convinces you that your "personal consultation" of the "Holy Spirit" is telling you to.

Of course (by following the lead of the Holy Spirit that is). God places each of us in a particular body (church) to serve for a particular time. When that time is up God will move us elsewhere. What's so hard to understand about following God's will for your life?

That's what St. Paul calls "following itching ears," and is neither the obedience nor the submission commanded by Hebrews 13:17.

No. Paul calls leaving because you don't like the preaching "following itching ears". If you leave because the pastor (priest) is apostate then how are you following itching ears? The false teachers tell us things we want to hear. In that case staying would be "following itching ears" and leaving would be the correct thing to do.

It's a pity more Catholics didn't leave the parishes of the sodomite priests for true Catholic parishes. The true teachers/pastors/etc tell us what is true, even if that sometimes causes us pain. Tough love is a distinctly Christian principle

65 posted on 09/30/2003 9:48:20 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: bondserv
This really isn't the thread to nitpick theology on. Many of the vast misperceptions of Catholocism involve Scriptural interpretation, Mary, and the sacraments.

The main difference in scriptural interpretation is that the Catholic Church does not regard every story in the Bible as a fact of history. Some books, like Job, Jonah, the Creation story, and Revelation (and all its symbolism)are regarded more as allegorical teachings. The Church does not necessarily endorse Evolution, nor does it deny its possibility. Ironically, with all the historical whipping that's been handed down over Galileo, the Church has immense respect for science -- i.e. the way thinks work as evidently commanded by the Creator. Among these possibilities is that Man "evolved" in some manner until the emergence of "Adam", who was infused with the first soul -- the image of God. The Church does not endorse this as a certainty, it is only open to further scientific discovery on the matter.

As for the Blessed Virgin Mary, this is another brutal misconception of the Catholic faith. There is no more "worship" of Mary going on in Church, than there is of dead love ones whose pictures hang on the wall at home. Catholics honor and praise her for her free will acceptance of the seed of the Holy Spirit -- not a small undertaking for a 12 year old girl in Nazareth. Catholics refer to her as the "co-Redemptrix" not as an "equal", but as an assistant. God's plan was for Mary to be the Mother of His Son. She was necessary for Jesus' birth just as the cross was necessary for Jesus' death. The Redemption could not have taken place without her (in God's plan) just as the world could not be redeemed if Jesus died of a natural cause. It's a mystery, and it's hard for most people to accept, but that's how it is. If anything, we give her eternal gratitude. Her power is in her holiness, not in any kind of "Divinity". It's the same holiness that you and I can share with others if we live our lives right. That's the beauty of it.

On the matter of who is the mediator between God and men, it is only Christ? Yes. This is true. I also suppose the prayers your mother sent to God on your behalf when you were but an infant were completely disregarded and useless, since there is "one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" That would pretty much eliminate anyone you ever asked to pray for you in your life. Mary intercedes on our behalf whether you want her to our not (see Wedding at Cana). If you've ever asked your mother to approach your father with a request on your behalf, you know what I'm talking about.

I'm not nitpicking or anything, though.

And remember: Protestants worship a Bible composed of books chosen by the Roman Catholic Church. Luther only subtracted from the Holy Bible, he brought nothing to the table.
66 posted on 09/30/2003 9:52:59 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: John O
God places each of us in a particular body (church) to serve for a particular time. When that time is up God will move us elsewhere.

Scripture says nothing like that. It does say, however, that the Church is one body, not many.

Paul calls leaving because you don't like the preaching "following itching ears". If you leave because the pastor (priest) is apostate then how are you following itching ears?

If he's really apostate, then shake the dirt off your feet and leave, by all means. But that doesn't fit with what bondserv said, which was "don't trust a man". My point is that Scripture commands us to trust men, or at least submit to them in obedience if they are placed over us.

67 posted on 09/30/2003 9:54:59 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Paladin2b
The only difference is, this is the first time clergy on the inside are initiating the "death watch". Every other times its been some media scribe speculating based on appearances.
68 posted on 09/30/2003 10:00:24 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: kinghorse
I think your way off base. If "most every (of the approximately 1 billion) moslem probably knows whats planned" then we would know. Their is a Hells Angel saying: "Three Can Keep a Secret if Two are Dead."

There is no way that conspirators would let anyone in on their plan who didn't need to know. The 9/11 hijackers were organized in classic a "cell" matrix. It is possible they did not even all know each other, or the existence of each other even.

As for you stringing a bunch of random facts together, I don't think you "big one" conclustion is deductible from the stated facts. Gold has been tending up for 18 months, to take one factoid.

69 posted on 09/30/2003 10:01:09 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Rutles4Ever
That was a very good, concise reply to the common "complaints" many have against the Catholic Church. Rarely have I seen the common questions explained so well. Good job.
70 posted on 09/30/2003 10:02:35 AM PDT by FourtySeven
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To: Dog

71 posted on 09/30/2003 10:03:50 AM PDT by ppaul
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To: John O
Do the Jews and Christians have the ability to turn water to blood? Or call down plagues? It's hard for me to see this.
72 posted on 09/30/2003 10:05:33 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: FourtySeven
I get by with a little help from my Friends. ;-)
73 posted on 09/30/2003 10:06:59 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: Rutles4Ever
Protestants worship a Bible...

They do?

74 posted on 09/30/2003 10:09:09 AM PDT by ppaul
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To: Jack Black
I think the "two witnesses" are Moses and Elijah, personifying the Law and the Prophets. Part of this is because Elijah "shut the heavens so no rain would fall" (1 Kgs 17) and Moses turned water to blood and brought plagues against Egypt.

75 posted on 09/30/2003 10:09:38 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Rutles4Ever
Luther only subtracted from the Holy Bible, he brought nothing to the table. I plead ignorance. What was subtracted?
76 posted on 09/30/2003 10:09:44 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Dog
The pope reminds me of my 82-year-old mother-in-law who since retirement has spent 20 solid years watching soap operas and playing the slots. < /sarcasm>
77 posted on 09/30/2003 10:11:52 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Campion
Which ever interpretation you have I don't see that we're there yet.
78 posted on 09/30/2003 10:12:19 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Jack Black
Luther only subtracted from the Holy Bible, he brought nothing to the table.

Technically true. He nailed them to the door instead.

79 posted on 09/30/2003 10:13:07 AM PDT by ppaul
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To: Jack Black
Maccabees, Tobit, Peter...to name a few.

Maccabees offers the foundation for the dogma of Purgatory, which Luther did not subscribe to. Tobit, I'm not sure why it was removed -- the only unique occurrence is the appearance of the Archangel Raphael.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong...
80 posted on 09/30/2003 10:16:50 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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