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Cardinal: Pope in "a bad way"
Reuters/Fox News ^

Posted on 09/30/2003 7:15:09 AM PDT by Dog

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To: bondserv; *Catholic_list
We gather in this thread to contemplate the life of a great man of faith who is apparently soon to depart us. Bondserv comes to hammer home HOPIOS.

And I have to be in a meeting in minutes.

141 posted on 09/30/2003 11:53:09 AM PDT by Petronski (Pummeluh pummeluh pummeluh)
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To: biblewonk
There is nothing to defend. Your assertion that the Virgin Birth is more important to Catholicism than Transubstantiation is idiotic. The primarily Catholic readers of this thread understand this. As such I refuse to address it. Your continued attempts at hijacking a thread about the failing health of a very devout and holy man who means a lot to most of us are an ongoing example of just how truley classless and Unchristian you can be. I am proud not to follow your religious beliefs if they can produce this type of behavior.
142 posted on 09/30/2003 11:54:18 AM PDT by presidio9 (Countdown to 27 World Championships...)
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To: presidio9
"Insecure"? Sounds like wishful thinking on your part.

But, thanks for the free psychoanalysis.

143 posted on 09/30/2003 11:54:18 AM PDT by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible, i.e. WORDS MEAN THINGS)
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To: bondserv
Bond, most of the issues you've brought up have been raised in the early church. I'd suggest you google up on early church history and how it explained those points you raised and how it refuted heresies which were based on many of those points or others. MAtter of fact, all of us need to learn from the hisory of the church, so that's why the church emphasises that tradition plays a role, because that's how scripture has been debated and made more understandable to us mortals
144 posted on 09/30/2003 11:54:18 AM PDT by Cronos (W2004)
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To: Petronski
"Sola scriptura" is 'scripture and nothing else.' Nothing you have quoted supports this. Your first quote speaks of the wisdom to be found in the God-given scriptures. Your second quote refers to you:

Ok. Where the scripture speaks, it has clear precedence.

We are not talking about when to trim our toenails here.

145 posted on 09/30/2003 11:54:55 AM PDT by bondserv
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To: newgeezer
The RC system is about as Biblical as, say, Mormonism.

That's an incredibly silly thing to say.
146 posted on 09/30/2003 11:55:34 AM PDT by Cronos (W2004)
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To: biblewonk
"You guys sure have different ways of expressing yourselves. Is this good Catholic Bad Catholic or something? He picks a fight and you call me mean."

Who, me. Check my tagline.

My point is simple. People are saddened by the imminent death of their religious leader. Why not leave them alone? If you want to discuss what you see as fallacies in RCC theology, then why not start a thread about that?

Arguments regarding your beliefs are simply inappropriate in this thread.
147 posted on 09/30/2003 11:55:55 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: biblewonk
Everytime Jesus criticized people for not knowing the scriptures and trusting tradition or common sense the concept is repeated.

What do you make of these passages:

Matthew 23

1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you.

1 Corinthians 11:2

I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:15

So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.


148 posted on 09/30/2003 11:56:14 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: biblewonk
RC doctrines = the beliefs of the church of the Apostles, along with the Eastern Orthodox churchs.
149 posted on 09/30/2003 11:56:27 AM PDT by Cronos (W2004)
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To: Notwithstanding
As a Lutheran, I respect the man who has shouldered a heavy burden during through a period where eras changed. He was a partisian fighter against the Nazi occupiers who watched his country enslaved, endured and finally break the chains of the Communist tyrany. He has also had to endure the deterioration of societal morals throughout Christendom and the rise of another Islamic Jihad...aided and abetted by "Christian Intellectuals".

His burdens have been fearsom and he has maintained his faith. While I may not agree with some of his positions, I respect his courage and fortitude.

I remember Pope John 23d fondly, but John Paul 2d I will remember with respect.

150 posted on 09/30/2003 11:56:31 AM PDT by Redleg Duke (Stir the pot...don't let anything settle to the bottom where the lawyers can feed off of it!)
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To: presidio9
There is nothing to defend. Your assertion that the Virgin Birth is more important to Catholicism than Transubstantiation is idiotic.

Since I never said that it is you who seem to be the hijacker.

151 posted on 09/30/2003 11:56:50 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrisssssssstian)
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To: newgeezer
"Insecure"? Sounds like wishful thinking on your part.

Yes, insecure. What other motivation could one have for attacking Catholic theology on a thread about the Pope's failing health. You must agree that your presence here is otherwise bizarre. Of you don't respect Catholicism, what special interest could the Pope's health possibly hold for you?

152 posted on 09/30/2003 11:56:55 AM PDT by presidio9 (Countdown to 27 World Championships...)
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Comment #153 Removed by Moderator

To: Cronos
If the apostles believed those things about Mary, you'd think they would have mentioned them.
154 posted on 09/30/2003 11:57:42 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrisssssssstian)
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To: MineralMan
Good point: Can you not withhold your dislike for RCC beliefs for another thread? I'm sure there are threads more suited for a discussion of theological differences between sects of Christianity than this one. exactly, this is about a person who has tried to live like Christ and should be respected for that.
155 posted on 09/30/2003 11:59:16 AM PDT by Cronos (W2004)
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To: newgeezer
"Note how, all of a sudden, they all want to get back "on topic" (and we're supposed to be the "insecure" ones)?! ;O)"

Am I one of "them?" As an atheist, I'd say not. You want a comparative doctrine thread? Start one. The Pope is dying, and scores of millions of Catholics are upset by that. What's your point in coming into the thread to trash RCC doctrine?

Go somewhere else, please.
156 posted on 09/30/2003 12:00:24 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: newgeezer
"They" are hurting today. Their spiritual leader is failing and may well be dying. Do you think that you can let up on them a little?

I know it is going to be really lonely in heaven for you folks. Heck, even a Lutheran like me will not measure up to your exacting standards for purity, so I guess I will be joining my Roman Catholic Brethren in Hell, but for today, will you please lighten up and let them prepare to mourn?

Give it some prayerful consideration at least! Thanks!

157 posted on 09/30/2003 12:02:00 PM PDT by Redleg Duke (Stir the pot...don't let anything settle to the bottom where the lawyers can feed off of it!)
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To: Cronos
Thank you for your kind reply. I have done a modest amount of research on these topics, being a former altar boy, Irish RC.

A RC priest in Berlin Germany lead me to Christ when I was serving as an Altar boy and we were stationed there. He was a Godly old German man that spoke very good english.

He said, "Young man, you can go to Jesus for all of your needs. Never forget that."

Being an Altar boy doesn't make me an expert on the RC, but my parents are still Catholic and I am familiar with where the church has fallen short in so many areas of their lives. Scripture knowledge, being the greatest.
158 posted on 09/30/2003 12:03:53 PM PDT by bondserv
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To: biblewonk
Since I never said that it is you who seem to be the hijacker.

When confronted with the facts you resort to lying. This is exactly the classlessness I was talking about. Here is exactly what you said:

"Communionschmunion, it's Mary that makes you guys so "special". Your beliefs about her are the very face of how RC doctrines are invented."

Again, I am proud to have nothing to do with your form of worship. You deny the most important philosophical teaching of Christ, compassion, and you lie to get your own misguided message across.

159 posted on 09/30/2003 12:03:53 PM PDT by presidio9 (Countdown to 27 World Championships...)
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To: biblewonk
Would have made a difference if they had? Luke's gospel records that blessed Mary said "all generations to come shall call me blessed".

Yet you don't. Why?

160 posted on 09/30/2003 12:04:16 PM PDT by Campion
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