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Libertarians Moving to N.H. to Establish 'Free State'
Fox News ^ | Wednesday, October 01, 2003 | associated Press

Posted on 10/01/2003 2:46:47 PM PDT by archy

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:37:19 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

CONCORD, N.H. — A group of libertarians announced a project Wednesday to get 20,000 Americans to move to New Hampshire and work to transform it into a "free state" with fewer laws, smaller government and greater liberty.

New Hampshire, whose motto is "Live Free or Die," beat out nine other finalists for the Free State Project. Wyoming was runner-up in balloting conducted by about 5,000 members of the project around the country, vice president Elizabeth McKinstry said.


(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Alaska; US: Delaware; US: Maine; US: Montana; US: New Hampshire; US: North Dakota; US: South Dakota; US: Vermont; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: freestate; freestateproject; fsp; nh; porcupines
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1 posted on 10/01/2003 2:46:47 PM PDT by archy
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To: AAABEST; A.J.Armitage; archy; austingirl; BADROTOFINGER; Baseballguy; bc2; Beck_isright; ...
PorcuPing! Fox News/AP report on the FSP state choice election
2 posted on 10/01/2003 2:48:23 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
Kathy Sullivan, state Democratic Party chairwoman, said project members "can best be described as anarchists."

That's also what some FReepers say. Hmmmmm ....

3 posted on 10/01/2003 2:54:50 PM PDT by MrLeRoy (The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. - Jefferson)
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To: MrLeRoy
Kathy Sullivan, state Democratic Party chairwoman, said project members "can best be described as anarchists."

That's also what some FReepers say. Hmmmmm ....

Coincidence or conspiricy? You decide. Of course, I'm sure she's very sincere and really believes that. And isn't afraid for her job as a party hack if her Democrats fall into third place in new voter registrations.

Still, she reminds me of someone not usually thought of in the political arena....


4 posted on 10/01/2003 3:07:54 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
I was rooting for Wyoming.
5 posted on 10/01/2003 3:10:21 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed
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To: archy
My wife and I just put in an offer on a house in Merrimack, NH. :-D
6 posted on 10/01/2003 3:25:38 PM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: mvpel
Wayne Green moved his radio magazine to New Hampshire in the 60s due to less taxes and regulators and has since published MANY computer mags,etc. He has been a long-time booster of the area.
7 posted on 10/01/2003 3:30:19 PM PDT by hoosierham
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To: hoosierham
Property taxes are not that cheap. Plus if you make more than $50,000 or $100,000 depending on the business type, you pay a state income tax on your business. It's not 100% heaven.
8 posted on 10/01/2003 3:43:11 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: archy
It would seem like 20,000 people would be able to impact the political leadership of a state with 400,000 people much more easily than a state with 1.2 million people.

Perhaps some concern (misplaced) that Wyoming does not offer the modern lifestyle? Is this group a limited government libertarian group, or an 'I want free drugs' libertarian group?

9 posted on 10/01/2003 3:49:40 PM PDT by AzSteven
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To: AzSteven
Is N.H. a liberal or consertive state?
10 posted on 10/01/2003 3:50:48 PM PDT by John Will
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To: John Will
New Hampshire is (historically) a conservative state, and considered very conservative when compared to its neightbor to the south. One problem with NH is that there are many from MA moving to NH to excape the blatant socialism of MA. And they are bringing their conservativism "a la carte" with them.

NH pays no income taxes but there are very high property taxes to make up for it. The worst case scenario is living in NH (pay high prop tax) and working in MA (still have to pay MA income taxes of 5.95%.)

There are 3 major routes to and from NH: I93, I95, and Rt3. Rt3 in MA is undergoing a major expansion from 2 lanes to 3 lanes. This is because so many people have moved to the Nashua and Rt3 areas but still work in MA on the tchnology belt of Rt128.

So, in my opinion, this was a great choice by the Libertarians, but it will not be easy since there is such an in flux of "moderates" from Massachusetts.

BITS

11 posted on 10/01/2003 4:03:40 PM PDT by Believe_In_The_Singularity
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To: John Will
NH is fiscally conservative, has very strong family values, believes in personal responsibility, and has a traditional work and education ethic. However, to traditional Republican conservatives we are seen at times, liberal. This is because the majority, although we do not desire abortions, also do not want the government to be involved. Interesting fact about NH is that auto insurance is not mandatory but the percentage of uninsured is lower than in neighboring states where it isn't. Same with seatbelt usage. BTW, the seacoast towns have both the most liberal and conservative voters. Portsmouth and Durham liberal and the rest of the towns quite conservative. Rockingham county is becoming the most conservative even with Salem, not on the seacoast, voting liberal oftentimes.
12 posted on 10/01/2003 4:04:32 PM PDT by Final Authority
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To: John Will
Is N.H. a liberal or consertive state?

It's sort of a unique situation, with the Democrats in third place behind the Republicans and Undeclared voters. But if I've figured the numbers right, the Democrats are about to find themselves in 4th place.

NH State voter registration, September ’02 2001 [after list purge]

REPUBLICANS 245,791/ 37.3%
UNDECLARED 242,028/ 36.8%
DEMOCRATS 170,405/ 25.9%

13 posted on 10/01/2003 4:05:36 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
The 5,000 members have already pledged to move to the selected state, Free State Project organizers said.

Yeah, 5K may have signed the pledge, but I bet they forgot they did it within 10 minutes. Their short-term memories are fried crisper than bacon!

14 posted on 10/01/2003 4:13:04 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: AzSteven
It would seem like 20,000 people would be able to impact the political leadership of a state with 400,000 people much more easily than a state with 1.2 million people.

Maybe, and for sure, the gains would have been achieved more quickly in a state where the Porcupine numbers would have carried more weight. But in any event, it may not matter a great deal.

Perhaps some concern (misplaced) that Wyoming does not offer the modern lifestyle? Is this group a limited government libertarian group, or an 'I want free drugs' libertarian group?

There were serious questions raised about the rural/rustic mature of much of Wyoming, which I'll have to adnmit have at least a certain seasonal validity: there are homes in the county where my granddad settled with doors on the second story as a means of dealing with snowdrifts.

As for the character of individual Porcupines, that varies with the individual as much as in any other assortment of individuals. But the close results with Wyoming coming in second place should be indicative, as is the establishment of the now inprocess FreeMontana Project in parallel with the FSP efforts in NH.

My guess? This is going to snowball sufficiently to very quickly affect both locales, and probably others as well. Check the math at the link.

-archy-/-

15 posted on 10/01/2003 4:14:10 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: Willie Green
Yeah, 5K may have signed the pledge, but I bet they forgot they did it within 10 minutes. Their short-term memories are fried crisper than bacon!

Pledge? Was I dusting the furnature, man? Or have those fraternity kids been playing with the marking pens, signing their pledges again.

This is AWESOME stuff you sold me dude!

-archy-/-

16 posted on 10/01/2003 4:16:02 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: mvpel
My wife and I just put in an offer on a house in Merrimack, NH. :-D

Well, GREAT! Congratulations!

See you in the Free State, FRiend!

-archy-/-

17 posted on 10/01/2003 4:19:19 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: Beelzebubba
I was rooting for Wyoming.

Me too, not too surprisingly, since I'm the founder and moderator of the FSPWyoming discussion group. But I don't think the possibilities of FSP expansion into alternate states is necessarily contraindicated if the numbers keep pouring in.

And with 150 Porcupines already resident in NH, it'll be real interesting to see how long it takes until that figure doubles.

-archy-/-

18 posted on 10/01/2003 4:22:52 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
Any of the medicinal marijuana crowd who actually manage to migrate to NH will rapidly flee the state as soon as they figure out that the winters aren't quite as pleasant as the summers.
19 posted on 10/01/2003 4:28:57 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: Willie Green
Decent fishing here, Willie.....
20 posted on 10/01/2003 4:33:16 PM PDT by RJCogburn ("I want a man with grit."..................Mattie Ross of near Dardenelle in Yell County)
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To: AzSteven
If libertarian keeps my taxes down I won't begrudge him roasting a bone if he wants to.
21 posted on 10/01/2003 4:40:31 PM PDT by eno_ (Freedom Lite - it's almost worth defending)
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To: archy
My wife's family lives in NH. It's a great place.

One of the best parts is that the legislature has about 400 members. In such a small state, that means that you probably personally know your legislator.

And it also means that to "influence" the legislature, a special interest really has to get to a lot of people.

And it also means that it's very inexpensive to run for office, which has the effect that legislators don't need help from special interests or lobbists in the first place. They can just represent their community, and that's that.

I remember a great conversation I had with my brother-in-law about the town meetings in a smaller mid-state town. He was giving the town greef because they wanted to paint the school again too soon, cause it could wait another couple of years before it really needed it and it cost too much money. New Hampshites really get into the "direct democracy" thing in lots of the smaller towns.

It's a great place. Might have to think about joining these guys.

22 posted on 10/01/2003 4:53:48 PM PDT by narby
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To: archy
Just keep the blue dye away from these people up there.
23 posted on 10/01/2003 4:56:09 PM PDT by The South Texan (The Democrat Party and the leftist (ABCCBSNBCCNN NYLATIMES)media are a criminal enterprise!)
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To: RJCogburn
Decent fishing here, Willie.....

Sounds good to me..
but I get a chuckle thinkin' about what a canfull of nightcrawlers would do to the psyche of those with pharmaceuticaly induced emotional impairments. LOL! Leeches and crickets and meal worms all make great bait as well!

24 posted on 10/01/2003 5:19:06 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: mvpel
Good luck with your move and all the best in your new place!
25 posted on 10/01/2003 5:21:17 PM PDT by TopQuark
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To: archy
I'll start looking for jobs there.
26 posted on 10/01/2003 5:26:26 PM PDT by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: Willie Green
Even better...
...Drug use shouldn't be controlled by the federal government, but I want to retain the right to recognize recreational drug users for possessing a fatal flaw in judgement.

Specifically, I want to recognize them as idiots.
27 posted on 10/01/2003 5:35:38 PM PDT by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: archy
We moved here from South Carolina a few years ago. It was definitely more socially conservative down there. I was surprised at how liberal and PC it is in New Hampshire.

It is very, very expensive to live in southern New Hampshire. Whatever you do, stay away from Bedford. We have a real mess on our hands with the schools. Half the town is very angry with the other half, and our taxes are going to increase greatly no matter what is decided in the upcoming election and really soon, too.

28 posted on 10/01/2003 5:38:57 PM PDT by BoomerBabe
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To: narby
One of the best parts is that the legislature has about 400 members. In such a small state, that means that you probably personally know your legislator.

And they're not getting rich at a salary of $100/year.

29 posted on 10/01/2003 5:41:55 PM PDT by RJCogburn ("I want a man with grit."..................Mattie Ross of near Dardenelle in Yell County)
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To: archy
However many people you move to your "free state", expect the libs to import that many Somalians, Djiboutians, Ethiopians, Mexicans, or some other refugee group who will immediately become voters and welfare recipients, nullifying any positive effect you might have.

I hope this thing works out, though, and spreads.

30 posted on 10/01/2003 5:59:33 PM PDT by Lizavetta
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To: BoomerBabe
It is very, very expensive to live in southern New Hampshire. Whatever you do, stay away from Bedford. We have a real mess on our hands with the schools.

Bedford is not at all the only place with major school problems, within NH borders or without. But I believe I'll take your advice.

-archy-/-

31 posted on 10/01/2003 6:10:48 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: AmericaUnited
But you also pay no personal income tax or state sales tax. Those two alone are worth several thousand dollars a year.
32 posted on 10/01/2003 6:12:20 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: Lizavetta
However many people you move to your "free state", expect the libs to import that many Somalians, Djiboutians, Ethiopians, Mexicans, or some other refugee group who will immediately become voters and welfare recipients, nullifying any positive effect you might have.

I hope this thing works out, though, and spreads.

We've considered that, and have considered a couple of possible counters. Thanks for the concern, and especially for the good wishes.

-archy-/-

33 posted on 10/01/2003 6:12:26 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: Maelstrom
Jobs north of Concord are relatively few.
34 posted on 10/01/2003 6:17:27 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: Maelstrom
I'll start looking for jobs there.

What sort of line are you in?

The Porcupine relocation services ought to be coming online with a lot of information along those lines very shortly, now that we know which state to concentrate upon.

-archy-/-

35 posted on 10/01/2003 6:20:56 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: BoomerBabe
What happened to the rural/urban vs. suburban, and rich vs. poor school funding issue in NH. I posted a good deal of articles on it in the past, but have fried my last computer and all of my catergorized thread lists. I was interested because here in NJ we were going through the final phases of a similar court mandated situation. Now it seems to be a future bone of contention once again.

36 posted on 10/01/2003 6:22:13 PM PDT by JerseyHighlander ((posting without reading since 3/25/1999))
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To: mvpel
My company installed and commissioned a gas turbine and waste heat boiler in a paper mill up in Groveton (waaayyy up north) and I spent the better part of three months in Lancaster. There is a small town just north of the Franconia Pass called Littleton. I just love that town. It is right out of a Rockwell painting. Kids walking in groups to school, nice little houses along the road. If I were to move anywhere, I would like to move there. I sure would miss my nice long Tennessee summers, though.
37 posted on 10/01/2003 6:22:25 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: The South Texan
Just keep the blue dye away from these people up there.

Oh no! You mean we can't have these guys perform at the annual FSP barbecue!?!?!


38 posted on 10/01/2003 6:23:27 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: GOPcapitalist
I wonder if a limpertarian will actually win a race now.
39 posted on 10/01/2003 6:25:07 PM PDT by BUSHdude2000
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To: Blood of Tyrants
I just might move there soon. It is very nice. So is Littleton and Gorham.
40 posted on 10/01/2003 6:28:05 PM PDT by eno_ (Freedom Lite - it's almost worth defending)
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To: BUSHdude2000
At least this particular bunch of "limpertarians" are actually DOING something to restore liberty and limited government in this country. What are you bush-bots doing? Vote for Bush and watch government grow faster than under Clinton and with Trillion dollar deficits to boot. Wonderful.
41 posted on 10/01/2003 7:28:08 PM PDT by StockAyatollah
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To: BoomerBabe
From the newspaper article I glanced at today it looked like Bedford's taxes may almost double due to a big school-building binge.
42 posted on 10/01/2003 7:28:46 PM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: JerseyHighlander
We'll all get ourselves elected and we'll get the government the hell out of the education business. :-)
43 posted on 10/01/2003 7:32:25 PM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Beelzebubba
Me too. I support the FSP, but I wouldn't want to move to NH, but a chapter of life in Wyoming would be cool as hell.
44 posted on 10/01/2003 7:32:37 PM PDT by krb (the statement on the other side of this tagline is false)
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To: AmericaUnited
It's not 100% heaven.

Not yet. :-)

45 posted on 10/01/2003 7:33:08 PM PDT by krb (the statement on the other side of this tagline is false)
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To: StockAyatollah; GOPcapitalist
What do limps do? They are classic run and hide kids. They'd have more effect getting involved with the GOP and changing it from within rather than running races where they get 7 votes, except for the presidential race where Browne gets 25 votes nationwide every 4 years.
46 posted on 10/01/2003 8:01:19 PM PDT by BUSHdude2000
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To: krb
Me too. I support the FSP, but I wouldn't want to move to NH, but a chapter of life in Wyoming would be cool as hell.

Just FYI, we are NOT shutting down the WYoming *WYFSP* discussion group just because of the NH selection. The stated goal for the project is Liberty in our lifetime and not just in one state.

If you'd like to go on the PorcuPing list here or join in on the WY state discussions, we'd be glad to have you, just as we'd be glad to have you as a neighbor out in Big Sky Country. And the Montana and other state groups have info worth checking out too- even the *New Hampster* state group.

-archy-/-

47 posted on 10/01/2003 8:08:59 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: BUSHdude2000
Really? Look at how much respect and influence conservatives get from and with Arnold supporters in California.
48 posted on 10/01/2003 8:15:29 PM PDT by Tench_Coxe
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To: BUSHdude2000
They'd also have more effect moving into a traditionally Democrat state (such as, oh, say DELAWARE) where they (1) cannot do any harm by taking votes away from the Republican while (2) simultaneously providing at least an alternative to the dems in races where where we don't run candidates.
49 posted on 10/01/2003 8:26:18 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: Tench_Coxe
Look at how much respect and influence conservatives get from and with Arnold supporters in California.

California is a leftist state and that fact is unavoidable. That means for the time being that Arnold is about the best we can hope to get there.

50 posted on 10/01/2003 8:28:03 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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