Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

STANEK: Is a crying baby alive?
Illinois Leader ^ | Wednesday, October 01, 2003 | Jill Stanek

Posted on 10/02/2003 8:30:02 PM PDT by nickcarraway

Is a crying baby alive? No, not necessarily, decided Cook County Circuit Court Judge Karen Thompson last November when she acquitted a mother previously convicted twice of murdering her newborn daughter.

Thus is the latest of increasingly grotesque decisions made by liberal judges to accommodate abortion - first of unborn babies, then of partially delivered babies, and now of babies who are delivered but have not “established a separate and independent life,” as required by Thompson in her reversal.

In question is whether a six-pound, 19-inch baby girl was “completely separated” at delivery when her mother, Elizabeth Ehlert, killed her.

Cook County State’s Attorney Dick Devine has asked the Illinois Supreme Court to intervene, arguing that “complete separation” would mean the umbilical cord must be cut.

“What you have here is the horrific scenario in which a mother who doesn’t want her baby delivers the baby, the baby is out and still connected by the cord, and under the complete separation doctrine… she can kill that baby,” said assistant state’s attorney Peter Fischer, according to the Daily Herald. “She can stab it, she can strangle it, do anything, and it’s not murder…. It’s nothing.”

The state’s attorney is correct. A baby is not completely separated from her mother so long as no one cuts the cord, which is attached at one end to the baby’s navel and at the other end to the placenta inside the mother. It normally takes five to 30 minutes for the placenta to be delivered following a baby's birth.

On August 21, 1990, Ehlert delivered her daughter in her Palatine bedroom alone. Boyfriend Steven King heard the baby cry for two seconds from where he stood in the hall. After that he heard nothing until Ehlert called for him to hand her a garbage bag, saying the baby had been born dead. She proceeded to throw the garbage bag with the baby in it into the creek behind her house. Workers found the baby downstream some days later.

According to court documents, Kingwas “credible,” “honest and sincere,” and “truly shaken up” by the incident.

Ehlert was found to lie and change her story several times about the events surrounding the birth. She lied that she was even pregnant during the months prior. She refused to allow King to call an ambulance when she was in labor.

Cook County assistant chief medical examiner Dr. Mitra Kalelkar testified the baby was healthy and had air in her lungs. Even before knowing the circumstances of the baby's death, she "had a suspicion that this baby was born alive and that the cause of death would be drowning," and requested further police investigation.

Prosecutors pointed out babies rarely cry when their heads appear during delivery. At that point the torso is still under great pressure within the birth canal, and the lungs have not yet inflated. The first cry is usually heard only after the baby is born.

In 1995, a jury found Ehlert guilty of murder.

But the first conviction was reversed “because the prosecution presented irrelevant and highly prejudicial evidence that defendant had two abortions,” said court documents. Prosecutors were merely demonstrating Ehlert had a history of killing her children, but the court ruffled at the insinuation. In Illinois, if someone kills a preborn baby against her mother’s wishes, that person is charged with homicide. If a mother kills her unborn baby by abortion, it is her choice.

Nevertheless Ehlert was convicted again by bench trial, the conviction Thompson Tobin overturned last November.

Progressive lawmakers have attempted to revise Illinois’ antiquated “born alive” definition each of the past three years in light of medical advances as well as the discovery of type of abortion being committed in Illinois hospitals that sometimes results in babies being aborted alive and left to die.

But pro-abortionists have repeatedly killed the measure, called the Illinois Born Alive Infants Protection Act.

President Bush signed the federal Born Alive Infants Protection Act last year, but that only relates to federal law and postdates the murder in question.

At issue is more than Baby Girl Ehlert’s murder. At issue is an added feature to abortion.

If a baby does not have rights until completely separated from her mother, then it follows to be perfectly legal for hospital or abortion clinic staff to deliver a baby and not cut the cord until mom decides if she wants the baby. What if the baby is a girl when mom wants a boy? What if mom and the boyfriend at her side are both white, but the baby is obviously mixed race (as I have witnessed)? Why was the girl who delivered at her prom and threw the baby in the trash convicted? If her baby was not separated when allowed to drown in the toilet, was not that legal?

It is almost a surprise that State's Attorney Devine is pursuing justice for Baby Girl Ehlert. But he is a welcome ally in the fight to protect innocent babies from murder.

***************


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Front Page News; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortionlist; courts; hospitals; illinois; medicine; nhs; prolife; seeninthesky
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-57 next last

Photo of a moving, crying, not-quite-alive baby according to Cook County Circuit Court Judge Karen Thompson. Because the umbilical cord has not yet been cut, the baby is not "completely separated" from his or her mother.

1 posted on 10/02/2003 8:30:02 PM PDT by nickcarraway
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: All
Aww man! Enough of the fundraiser posts!!!
Only YOU can make fundraiser posts go away. Please contribute!

2 posted on 10/02/2003 8:31:47 PM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
Yes, the new "complete birth" abortion, distinct from the "partial birth" abortion.
3 posted on 10/02/2003 8:32:39 PM PDT by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway; bunchofbs; JonathansMommie
What is wrong with these people?
4 posted on 10/02/2003 8:38:33 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Just because they're moving their lips doesn't mean they have anything to say)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: coloradan
Oh, my God. This sickens me. What in the world was this stupid liberal judge thinking???
5 posted on 10/02/2003 8:38:37 PM PDT by Roselani
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: coloradan
This is horrific.

Protect the baby humans.

It seems like the ban on partial birth abortion has been bouncing around between the House, the Senate, the House etc. an interminable period of time.

Congress and the people have clearly spoken loud and long against this barbaric practice. Send it to the President to sign posthaste.

6 posted on 10/02/2003 8:42:12 PM PDT by YepYep
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Roselani
The continuing devaluation of human life.
7 posted on 10/02/2003 8:42:43 PM PDT by sbelew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
and now of babies who are delivered but have not “established a separate and independent life,”

That means I can kill my kids now that I'm paying their college bills. After all, they haven't “established a separate and independent life.” The spinning and twisting the "Pro-abortion at any cost" lobby has to use is bizarre. It would be funny if it weren't so damned serious.

8 posted on 10/02/2003 8:42:55 PM PDT by TruthShallSetYouFree
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Roselani
"What in the world was this stupid liberal judge thinking???"

She's most likely thinking that there are already too many people taking up her air, that she knows best for all, that there is no God, and if only Hillary! can achieve the Presidency of the US the Revolution will succeed.

What she should be thinking, on the other hand, is that she's going to hell when she dies.

9 posted on 10/02/2003 8:43:09 PM PDT by jocon307 (GO RUSH GO)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: tpaine; JohnGalt; exodus
Related story
10 posted on 10/02/2003 8:43:32 PM PDT by thoughtomator (I told you so)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Roselani
What in the world was this stupid liberal judge thinking???

Congratulations! You managed to use "liberal judge" and "thinking" in the same sentence. :)

11 posted on 10/02/2003 8:44:36 PM PDT by TruthShallSetYouFree
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
Cases like this will drive the backlash.

The thing about backlashes, is you rarely see them coming.
12 posted on 10/02/2003 8:47:49 PM PDT by Imal (I set my browser to "Maximum Sarcasm", then broke off the knob.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TruthShallSetYouFree
Touche! What was I thinking?!
13 posted on 10/02/2003 8:49:01 PM PDT by Roselani
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; ...
Time to impeach the judge and the politician who appointed her. We were warned many yrs. ago about the communist and secular humanist intrusion into our society and nobody listened since they thought this stuff would never happen. Well it's happening and it's going to continue until something is done. The schools are inculcating naturalism and the culture of death in the class, students become: judges, lawyers, politicians and teachers as adults.

KAREN THOMPSON TOBIN - QUALIFIED
Judge Karen Thompson Tobin is "QUALIFIED" for retention as a Circuit Court Judge. Judge Tobin is a knowledgeable, thoughtful, hardworking and conscientious judge. She possesses an excellent temperament and is an asset to the bench.

http://www.chicagobar.org/public/news/10_11_00.asp
http://venus.soci.niu.edu/~archives/ABOLISH/rick-halperin/feb03/0095.html
http://www.crimlaw.org/defbrief231.html
http://keepandbeararms.com/news/kabanews/display_day_archive.asp?d=10%2F5%2F2001
14 posted on 10/02/2003 9:20:30 PM PDT by Coleus (Only half the patients who go into an abortion clinic come out alive.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
babies who are delivered but have not “established a separate and independent life,”

A baby who is breathing HAS established a separate and independent life, even if the placenta is still temporarily attatched. It is no longer only dependent on the umbilical cord and placenta for oxygen. If the mother was killed at that point, the baby could still live.

15 posted on 10/02/2003 9:21:33 PM PDT by knuthom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: coloradan
It's gotta get worse before it gets better. It can't get too much worse than this crap so maybe we're about to start getting better.
16 posted on 10/02/2003 9:21:36 PM PDT by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig ("I've got a feeling you've got a heart like mine. Let's stomp some rat ba!!$, you can let it shine.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Coleus
Thanks for the heads up!
17 posted on 10/02/2003 9:24:09 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
This is the most disgusting thing I've read in a long time.

By far.
18 posted on 10/02/2003 9:28:04 PM PDT by Brad’s Gramma (Have YOU had your Logan Fix today? Hehe)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
Murder case might spur debate on abortion here and here and here

By John Patterson Daily Herald State Government Editor
Posted September 17, 2003

SPRINGFIELD -- If Elizabeth Ehlert's murder conviction is wiped out, Illinois' courts will have provided homicidal mothers a how-to guide for getting away with killing their babies, prosecutors told the Illinois Supreme Court on Tuesday.

Attorneys for Cook County State's Attorney Richard Devine are asking the state's high court to reinstate a first-degree murder conviction against Ehlert for the 1990 death of her daughter shortly after the baby was delivered at her Palatine home. Prosecutors allege she put the live infant in a garbage bag and tossed it in a creek behind her home. The baby was found dead two days later in one of the lakes at Twin Lakes Golf Course.

But an appeals court overturned her conviction late last year on the rationale it was never proved the baby was fully delivered and separated from Ehlert. The appeals court said under Illinois law there cannot be a murder victim until there is an individual life. Ehlert's attorneys asked the Illinois Supreme Court to uphold this ruling. Ehlert's defense maintains the baby died during complications. She could walk free if the Supreme Court agrees her conviction was a mistake.

The court's ruling has the potential to launch a full-blown debate on Illinois' abortion laws. The law determining when a baby is an independent life dates back to 1820 and says the baby must be completely separated from the mother. So far the General Assembly has not addressed the issue, leaving the court to decide if and how it should be modified.

Prosecutors said given current forensic and medical technology, the 183-year-old law no longer makes sense and should be overturned.

"What you have here is the horrific scenario in which a mother who doesn't want her baby delivers the baby, the baby is out and still connected by the cord, and under the complete separation doctrine ... she can kill that baby," said Peter D. Fischer, an assistant Cook County state's attorney. "She can stab it, she can strangle it, do anything and it's not murder. It's not intentional homicide of an unborn child because a mother can't be prosecuted for that. It's nothing."

"This killing of a full-term, 6-pound, 19-inch long baby is nothing and we believe that rule cannot stand in the modern age," he said.

Ehlert's attorneys, however, contend even if the court overturns the law, the justices cannot change how it applies to Ehlert's case. Doing so would violate constitutional rights, they said.

Allan R. Sincox, her state-appointed attorney, said the court faces two risks in deciding this case. If the justices leave the law the way it is, a woman could theoretically kill her child during the birth and escape prosecution. But if the law is changed, Sincox claims, a woman who has a stillbirth could be convicted of murder and sent to prison simply because someone claims the child was alive.

Sincox maintains Ehlert was never proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and the Supreme Court should uphold the appellate court's ruling. "This evidence is just simply too weak," he said.

Ehlert, who is now 44, was first convicted in 1993 by a jury and sentenced to prison for 58 years. But that conviction was overturned in 1995 on the grounds the prosecution presented prejudicial evidence that Ehlert had two abortions. She was tried again and convicted in a bench trial in 1998. Cook County Circuit Court Judge Karen Thompson Tobin sentenced her to a 30-year prison term. That conviction was overturned late last year leading to the current Supreme Court case.

Chief Justice Mary Ann McMorrow noted Ehlert has twice been convicted and openly questioned the appeals court's decision.

"Didn't the appellate court simply substitute its judgment for that of the trier of fact (judge)?" McMorrow asked during Tuesday's hearings.

Although the court heard arguments Tuesday, an opinion on the case may not come for several months.

Ehlert has been in custody at downstate Lincoln Correctional Center since 1993 and is eligible for parole in July 2005.

Baby: Mother up for parole in '05
19 posted on 10/02/2003 9:35:11 PM PDT by Coleus (Only half the patients who go into an abortion clinic come out alive.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Coleus
From your posted article:

By John Patterson

Daily Herald State Government Editor

Posted September 17, 2003

Ehlert, who is now 44, was first convicted in 1993 by a jury and sentenced to prison for 58 years. But that conviction was overturned in 1995 on the grounds the prosecution presented prejudicial evidence that Ehlert had two abortions. She was tried again and convicted in a bench trial in 1998. Cook County Circuit Court Judge Karen Thompson Tobin sentenced her to a 30-year prison term. That conviction was overturned late last year leading to the current Supreme Court case.

From the origanl posted article ("Illinois Leader", by Jill Stanek):

Is a crying baby alive? No, not necessarily, decided Cook County Circuit Court Judge Karen Thompson last November when she acquitted a mother previously convicted twice of murdering her newborn daughter...Nevertheless Ehlert was convicted again by bench trial, the conviction Thompson Tobin overturned last November.

Just a question...these two stories seem at odds, with the (apparent) same judge both "sentencing", and then "overturning" her own ruling...is there some way this makes some sense?! Is it the judge who's in question here, or some kind of horrendous "legal precedent" voted on ("referendum"-style) or gained as a ruling by "defense lawyers"?

Or is one of the reports not factually true? No one could possibly condone "aborting" a child whose only remaining "in utero" connection to his/her mother is an attached umbilical cord.

20 posted on 10/02/2003 10:12:16 PM PDT by 88keys
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: 88keys
is there some way this makes some sense?! >>

I was wondering the same thing when I posted the article.
21 posted on 10/02/2003 10:16:22 PM PDT by Coleus (Only half the patients who go into an abortion clinic come out alive.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway; Torie; jwalsh07; AntiGuv; aristeides
In question is whether a six-pound, 19-inch baby girl was “completely separated” at delivery when her mother, Elizabeth Ehlert, killed her.

My daughter was born smaller and lighter than this.

In Japan, mothers aren't prosecuted for infaticide if the baby is 1 or 2. How long until a rogue judge cites that international standard?


22 posted on 10/02/2003 10:23:24 PM PDT by Sabertooth (No Drivers' Licences for Illegal Aliens. Petition SB60. http://www.saveourlicense.com/n_home.htm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Roselani
Well, about par for the course in Crook, er, Cook County, I guess. Just sick - absolutely sick.
23 posted on 10/02/2003 10:30:08 PM PDT by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Coleus
The Circuit Court judges are elected or "retained".

Constitution of the State of Illinois - ARTICLE VI - THE JUDICIARY

SECTION 12. ELECTION AND RETENTION
(a) Supreme, Appellate and Circuit Judges shall be nominated at primary elections or by petition. Judges shall be elected at general or judicial elections as the General Assembly shall provide by law. A person eligible for the office of Judge may cause his name to appear on the ballot as a candidate for Judge at the primary and at the general or judicial elections by submitting petitions. The General Assembly shall prescribe by law the requirements for petitions.

24 posted on 10/02/2003 10:40:20 PM PDT by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Coleus
Tobin was "retained" in 2000, which means we have to put up with her for another 3 years before we can "un-retain" her.

CIRCUIT COURT - RETAIN KAREN THOMPSOM TOBIN

25 posted on 10/02/2003 10:44:40 PM PDT by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: netmilsmom
Just Simply Sad.
26 posted on 10/03/2003 4:50:24 AM PDT by JonathansMommie (Happy Second Birthday Jonathan Mommie Loves You : ))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
OMG
27 posted on 10/03/2003 6:10:00 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: netmilsmom
Nothing. She was teleported out of her brown uniform that she used to wear while working as a b-tch of Buchenwald.
28 posted on 10/03/2003 6:14:41 AM PDT by cyborg (X-tra strength industrial grade tinfoil hat for maximum zottage)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: coloradan
"Yes, the new "complete birth" abortion, distinct from the "partial birth" abortion."

Will this be the culture of death's "way around" the partial brith abortion ban.
29 posted on 10/03/2003 6:23:06 AM PDT by George from New England
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
BTTT for life!
30 posted on 10/03/2003 6:38:05 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
**Yes, the new "complete birth" abortion, distinct from the "partial birth" abortion.**

Oh, no, is this what the loophole dems are doing now?
31 posted on 10/03/2003 6:39:22 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
The subject matter described in this article is gruesome beyond words. How can these people sleep at night? The Pope has constantly wanred us about a culture of death, as did Walker Percy. These murderers must be placed within reach of the law or else the law has no meaning.
32 posted on 10/03/2003 6:44:37 AM PDT by Puddleglum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JonathansMommie
Just Simply Sad EVIL.
33 posted on 10/03/2003 6:58:27 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
Peter "Animal Rights" Singer would approve.
34 posted on 10/03/2003 6:59:29 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
but have not “established a separate and independent life,” as required by Thompson

The F'in B!*%# should have her 'umbilical cord' to the taxpayers severed!
(At the least.)

35 posted on 10/03/2003 7:12:26 AM PDT by StriperSniper (The socialist revolution is almost complete.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
Part of everyone's prayers should be asking God Almighty's forgiveness for America's complicity in these atrocities.

I fear it will get worse for the unborn and even the newborn before it gets better.
36 posted on 10/03/2003 7:14:23 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (Ain't Skeered...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
My second child was born 13 months ago this Sunday. The second his head popped out, he started crying. The doctor said that was strange (but not unheard of) because the baby's lungs are usually compressed from still being in the birth canal. That's why you don't hear them cry until they are completely out of the mother. So according to this judge (I am not going to call her a woman, because no real woman would say something like this), my son was not alive even though he was crying as soon as his head came out? I hate to think what she would say to the fact that I believe my children were alive the second they were conceived.

Disgusting.
37 posted on 10/03/2003 7:19:28 AM PDT by Okies love Dubya 2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Javelina
Ping
38 posted on 10/03/2003 7:31:23 AM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knuthom
Of course you are right, but this ruling wasn't about the law, it was about a 'judge' practicing societal engineering from the bench instead of applying law and seeking justice. Time to impeach the fool liberal, remove her from the bench so Justice can be served, and get on with it!
39 posted on 10/03/2003 7:34:01 AM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: ArrogantBustard
That Too!
40 posted on 10/03/2003 8:08:58 AM PDT by JonathansMommie (Happy 2nd Birthday Jonathan Mommie Loves U)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
Thanks for the heads up.

In NJ, once you are appointed to the county bench, you serve 7 yrs. then after that if no Senator complains, you're on for life.
41 posted on 10/03/2003 9:54:53 AM PDT by Coleus (Only half the patients who go into an abortion clinic come out alive.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
This is pure feminazi doctrine: do nothing which would remotely detract from a woman's 'right' to kill a baby.
Feminazis are the enemy.
42 posted on 10/03/2003 10:38:38 AM PDT by BooksForTheRight.com (Feminazis gave us this)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
Thanks, can you make any sense out of posts #1 and 19, seems 1 is an editorial and 19 is a new article and they don't seem to jive. Have you been following the story in your local papers?
43 posted on 10/03/2003 10:49:04 AM PDT by Coleus (Only half the patients who go into an abortion clinic come out alive.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Okies love Dubya 2
"I believe my children were alive the second they were conceived...."

I too feel that way. Unfortunately, I get a lot crap, particularly because I'm male, thrown my way for this belief.

It is amazing how we as humans can turn such a precious gift from God into such horror.
44 posted on 10/03/2003 11:06:21 AM PDT by PigRigger (Send donations to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway; Eaker; habs4ever; Ditter; shaggy eel; dorben; Son of Rooster; Tennessee_Bob; ...
Is a crying baby alive? No, not necessarily, decided Cook County Circuit Court Judge Karen Thompson

Oh... My... God. Forgive us.

45 posted on 10/03/2003 11:08:50 AM PDT by Terriergal ("multipass!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Terriergal
Forgiveness follows repentence.

May our nation repent of this unspeakable evil. And may God have mercy on us all for tolerating it.

46 posted on 10/03/2003 11:13:00 AM PDT by Skooz (All Hail the Mighty Kansas City Chiefs)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
I knew it would come to this. It's the logical endpoint of the "separation" argument. We have already seen that idiot Boxer arguing in the Senate that if a hand or a foot is left in the birth canal then there is no effective separation, so sucking the brains out of the baby at that point is still permitted.

Think about what they've done here. They've invested one's "humanity" in the presence or absence of a scrap of connective tissue. That's about as poor a proxy for humanity, if one could stand the thought of such, as you can imagine.

What the pro-aborts are advocating, while straining for all sorts of logical and factual gymnastics and contortions to avoid facing, is that women have the right to kill innocent people under some circumstances, with no justification or due process or ethical obligation to consider otherwise, and no one else has the moral authority to intervene or even question it. This latest judicial outrage is just one more point to prove that this is truly a world gone mad.

47 posted on 10/03/2003 11:15:15 AM PDT by chimera
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PigRigger; Okies love Dubya 2
It is amazing how we as humans can turn such a precious gift from God into such horror

Jeremiah 17: 9
"The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

48 posted on 10/03/2003 11:15:16 AM PDT by Terriergal ("multipass!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: chimera
What the pro-aborts are advocating, while straining for all sorts of logical and factual gymnastics and contortions to avoid facing, is that women have the right to kill innocent people under some circumstances

Ding ding ding! WE have a winner!

This latest judicial outrage is just one more point to prove that this is truly a world gone mad.

Sadly, I have to agree... Maranatha!

49 posted on 10/03/2003 11:16:32 AM PDT by Terriergal ("multipass!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Terriergal
Understand, may God forgive us.
50 posted on 10/03/2003 11:19:50 AM PDT by PigRigger (Send donations to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-57 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson