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Phelps seeks anti-gay marker
Casper Star Tribune ^ | October 3, 2003 | Brendan Burke

Posted on 10/04/2003 5:56:54 AM PDT by MikeJ75

Rev. Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., announced plans Thursday to erect a monument in Casper's City Park.

The monument would be made of marble or granite, stand 5 to 6 feet in height, with a heavy bronze plaque bearing the face of slain University of Wyoming student Matthew Shepard and an inscription reading "MATTHEW SHEPARD, Entered Hell October 12, 1998, in Defiance of God's Warning: 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination.' Leviticus 18:22," a letter from the Westboro Baptist Church signed by Phelps sent to the city of Casper states.

The church plans to place the monument in City Park because the park is already home to a Ten Commandments monument donated to the city by the Fraternal Order of the Eagles in 1965.

(Excerpt) Read more at casperstartribune.net ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: fredphelps; homosexuality; matthewshepard; monument
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1 posted on 10/04/2003 5:56:54 AM PDT by MikeJ75
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To: MikeJ75
First stone casting there, Freddy?
2 posted on 10/04/2003 6:01:06 AM PDT by RJCogburn ("I want a man with grit."..................Mattie Ross of near Dardenelle in Yell County)
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3 posted on 10/04/2003 6:01:49 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: MikeJ75
I expect this post to be pulled quickly, since it seems to defame christianity and it is doomed to be a flame war spot.

But its why so many non-christians hate christians. Christians need to police themselves and be marching against stuff like this.
4 posted on 10/04/2003 6:02:26 AM PDT by LaraCroft (I wish there was a list of all the AntiArnolds to thank if BustaMecha wins)
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To: MikeJ75
Don't you just love the compassion for the victim's surviving family. Doesn't it just make you want to join this wonderful loving gathering of saints?
5 posted on 10/04/2003 6:05:49 AM PDT by foolscap
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To: LaraCroft
Just because you're a Baptist minister doesn't mean you cannot simultaneously be a raving lunatic.

In fact, lots of preachers are put together rather oddly.

6 posted on 10/04/2003 6:06:28 AM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: MikeJ75
This Minister is NO Christian.
7 posted on 10/04/2003 6:10:16 AM PDT by Diva
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To: billorites
I hope the little homo ask for and was forgiven before he died.This marker however is in very poor taste.
8 posted on 10/04/2003 6:11:33 AM PDT by JOHANNES801 (I am the vrwc.)
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To: LaraCroft
I think many on the right and left, Christian and non, anti-gay or not think this guy is an a$$hole.

I think many people like him are really leftists trying to smear people who opposed the gay agenda.

9 posted on 10/04/2003 6:13:42 AM PDT by AAABEST (http://www.floridasoundoff.com)
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To: MikeJ75
Reverend Phelps ought to be ashamed of himself.
10 posted on 10/04/2003 6:15:06 AM PDT by Mears
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To: MikeJ75
This is about as helpful to the Christian cause of moral decency as the abortionist-killers are to the pro-life cause. How dense can this guy be? Hate the sin but love the sinner, people.
11 posted on 10/04/2003 6:16:46 AM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: MikeJ75
It does sound like the self-proclaimed minister, Fred Phelps, is advocating torture and murder. Perhaps, Fred Phelps is the one, who will never worry about being cold again.
12 posted on 10/04/2003 6:20:40 AM PDT by punster
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To: MikeJ75
The passage he quoted is Old Testament, we are under the laws of the New Testament. A Baptist preacher worth his salt would know the difference. Not only is Phelps an idiot, his family is infested with the same ignorant ranting and intelligence. Recently, SuperTalk Mississippi had one of Phelps daughters on the program and if there was anyone that personified ignorance when they opened their mouth, it was her.
13 posted on 10/04/2003 6:25:05 AM PDT by vetvetdoug
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To: LaraCroft
I don't see why the post should be pulled. It is just this sort of post that can open up the kind of legitimate discussion that should be opened. It is hard for me to believe that someone who calls himself a Christian indeed, a Christian minister, would think that it served God to erect such a monument in the first place. Whether or not the statement is true is irrelevant. It is between God and Matthew Shepherd, and no one should be brutally murdered as he was.

I am probably the most ant-politically correct person I know and even I can see that such a "message" is hateful and dishonoring to God. I expect that the community will deal with the Rev. Fred. Why can't there be a vote in the community as to what will and will not be allowed in a public park. Makes perfect sense to me. It sounds as if the people want the 10 Commandments, but do NOT want this other thing, and I would think that at least at a local level a community would be able to have the force of their own will. It is THEIR park.

14 posted on 10/04/2003 6:26:38 AM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Mears
Reverend Phelps ought to be ashamed of himself.

That's the one thing this disbarred lawyer and self-annointed preacher is lacking--shame. I could list a thousand other positive traits Phelps is lacking, but I don't want to waste bandwith.

15 posted on 10/04/2003 6:26:52 AM PDT by Catspaw
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To: AAABEST
Phelps was an Al Gore delegate to the 1988 D N Convention.
16 posted on 10/04/2003 6:27:04 AM PDT by Guillermo ( Proud Infidel)
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To: MikeJ75
Pardon the pun, but I'll play the devils advocate here - if Phelps was a liberal, the Left would embrace him the same as they've done with bin Laden and Hussein and Arafat and Mao and Lenin and Pol Pot and Milosevich and the United Nations and....
17 posted on 10/04/2003 6:27:16 AM PDT by JoJo Gunn (Help control the Leftist population. Have them spayed or neutered.)
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To: vetvetdoug
If it was an "abomination" in the OT, then it is in the NT and now.

The difference in the NT is that you don't kill them.
18 posted on 10/04/2003 6:28:14 AM PDT by Guillermo ( Proud Infidel)
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To: JoJo Gunn
Read post 16.
19 posted on 10/04/2003 6:28:40 AM PDT by Guillermo ( Proud Infidel)
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To: LaraCroft
Christians need to police themselves and be marching against stuff like this

Pray for the conversion of brother Phelps.

20 posted on 10/04/2003 6:29:51 AM PDT by Jim Noble
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To: sweetliberty
There are Liberals who call themselves "Christians" who are for abortion, homosexual marriage, rubbers in schools, etc.

They're not really any different from Phelps.
21 posted on 10/04/2003 6:30:02 AM PDT by Guillermo ( Proud Infidel)
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To: billorites
"Just because you're a Baptist minister doesn't mean you cannot simultaneously be a raving lunatic."

Or any kind of minister for that matter...pedophile Catholic priests, queer Episcopal bishops, racebaiting Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, philandering extortionist Jim Baker...need I say more? These people are a shame and an embarassment to the title of "Reverend" and the Christian world.

"Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (Matthew 7:21-23)

22 posted on 10/04/2003 6:35:49 AM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: vetvetdoug
As a former Bible School student, and as a former Southern Baptist Deacon, responsible for "educating" the graduating Senior Women's sunday school class (I learned a lot more from them than I taught...), I can state that many Baptists dwell in the Old testament, and only acknowledge the new Testament because they get to talk about Jesus... (this is not limited to Baptists, my dad is an Episcopal Priest, who does not believe half of what he preaches about!)
Most Christians have no real concept of what God has given them... freely, with His love...
"we are no longer under the curse of the Law and prophets, but have been set free from sin and death!"
How? Simple faith, in the actions of our Creator!
"for God so loved the world, that HE gave His only begotten Son, so whosoever believeth ...shall not die"!
Jesus lives! Therefore, I can live! Forever!
(Note: quptes paraphrased...if you need Scriptural references, get a good concordance, these quotes of mine are in my head! or, I will gladly get out my Thompsons, or the really controversial Dakes!!!)
23 posted on 10/04/2003 6:38:32 AM PDT by pageonetoo (in God I trust, not the g'umt!)
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To: Guillermo
Your the first one on this that understands the Bible. Jesus came to fulfill the law and make it stronger. A crime against Gods nature is still a crime against Gods nature.
24 posted on 10/04/2003 6:38:40 AM PDT by fella
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To: Unam Sanctam
This is about as helpful to the Christian cause of moral decency as the abortionist-killers are to the pro-life cause."

Good analogy and good point. There are whackos in all walks of life, including those who fill the pews and pulpits of the churches. I am reminded of Corrie Ten Boon's remark in the Hiding Place regarding the matter: "just because a mouse gets in the cookie jar, it doesn't make him a cookie."

25 posted on 10/04/2003 6:39:45 AM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: LaraCroft
why so many non-christians hate christians

While I don't agree with the statue! I do believe that THE WORD OF THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL - also known as the Di-Di-Ah - THE LAW THE LAW OF ADONAI or THE WORD THE LAW of Adonai - because THE WORD is the Law of Adonai is SUBLIME TRUTH and we were created to live by it!

So what are some of the reasons that you, LaraCroft, believe anti-Christians hate Christians?

27 posted on 10/04/2003 6:45:50 AM PDT by TrueBeliever9
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To: Guillermo
Yes, I have failed for a long time to see how one can be a Christian and hold to liberal philosophy. Seems the scripture about no one being able to serve two masters fits here. But then there are those on the other extreme, such as Phelps, who try to play God in matters reserved for God alone. They are charicatures of ministers who make the case for liberals or they become like Jim Jones and lead people away from God setting themselves up as the object of devotion. Either way, they're dangerous and should be held accountable by other Christians. Phelps should be lovingly admonished and given a chance to see the error of his intention. Failing that, he should be strongly and publicly rebuked by the Christian community. If he still insists on pursuing his folly, it will be to his own detriment and should lose the true Christians of his church and should be shunned (to use and antiquated term) by members of other churches in the community. That way, everyone else's conscience remains clear for having taken no part in it and God and justice are served.
28 posted on 10/04/2003 6:55:14 AM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: MikeJ75
Phelps should ask himself exactly who is being honored by his actions. I hope that he isn't deceived enough to think that God is being honored by this. Phelps actions cause more people to have hatred for him than they cause people to have a spirit of true repentance. I don't see much love, nor spiritual fruit, in the deeds of Fred Phelps.

Hat-Trick

29 posted on 10/04/2003 7:00:51 AM PDT by Hat-Trick (Do you trust a government that does not trust you with guns?)
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To: Guillermo
I would prefer a preacher quote Romans instead of the OT. If we were under the OT law, I couldn't enjoy a good dinner of pork ribs or Bar-B-Q and we'd have to lock up women when the were experiencing their menstrual cycle. The OT is religious history, the NT is the law now. We'd have to let Bible scholars parse it out; I am by no means a scholar.
30 posted on 10/04/2003 7:04:25 AM PDT by vetvetdoug
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To: vetvetdoug
"SuperTalk Mississippi had one of Phelps daughters on the program and if there was anyone that personified ignorance when they opened their mouth, it was her"

This is the same kind of ignorance that professes membership in the Klan as pleasing to God. I think nothing could be furthur from the truth. While God may honor the intention in their hearts (which is not for me to judge), I do not believe that His leading or His blessing is upon such organizations OR churches that are firmly rooted in ignorance, which is the source of most unjust hatred.

I remember back several years ago when one of the talk shows, don't recall which one, had a bunch of Klan members and their families on. What profound ignorance was on display that day! Almost made Jerry Springer's typical guest look rational. Just because someone does or says things in God's name, doesn't mean that He has any part in it.

31 posted on 10/04/2003 7:07:35 AM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Guillermo
"Phelps was an Al Gore delegate to the 1988 D N Convention."

For real? Now THAT's kinda funny. The liberal brand of "Christianity" begins to rear it's ugly head reveal itself. What irony!

32 posted on 10/04/2003 7:13:51 AM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: JoJo Gunn
"if Phelps was a liberal, the Left would embrace him the same as they've done with bin Laden and Hussein and Arafat and Mao and Lenin and Pol Pot and Milosevich and the United Nations and...."

Perhaps they are...by using him to level accusations at US. Yes, I know that it is convoluted reasoning, but that is a hazard of trying to get inside the liberal mind. I have said for years that if you want to know what the liberals are up to, you have to look no furthur than the accusations they are leveling at conservatives.

33 posted on 10/04/2003 7:17:17 AM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
After seeing how they marched in the streets for "peace" after September the 11th of 2001, I put absolutely nothing past the Left, hence my post illustrating their insanity.

As an aside, I'll never forget as long as I live that idiot Berkeley mayor Dona Spring, who said that they were "an island of sanity". This was the same dangerous Leftist idiot who agreed with the Taliban that America was a terrorist nation, because "if they (the Taliban) said it, then it must be true).

34 posted on 10/04/2003 7:34:42 AM PDT by JoJo Gunn (Help control the Leftist population. Have them spayed or neutered.)
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To: vetvetdoug
Jesus did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. Much of the Levitical law was aimed at protecting the people from disease. They had neither the knowledge of the source of many diseases nor the technology to combat them that we have today, and most diseases are born of certain behaviors, many of which are neutral in and of themselves...such as eating food when we're hungry. In the OT many laws deal with the preparing and consumption of food and also with what may or may not be touched (which could be anything from a dead body to an open wound to a menstrating woman). Only God knew back then that disease was transmitted by bodily fluids or that certain animal flesh could carry deadly parasites. The laws governing sexual behavior doubtless has an element of protection from disease as well, although I think that God's proclamations regarding sexual behavior were more complex. I think that many of the laws were not and became all but obsolete as medical science advanced, although a case could still be made that some of the forbidden foods of the OT are still less healthy than those that were acceptable and it is still a bad idea to carelessly be in contact with bodily fluids as evidenced by the growing obsession with wearing gloves for everything from preparing food to giving a manicure.

Just something to think about.

35 posted on 10/04/2003 7:35:47 AM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: JoJo Gunn
Yes, I seem to remember an "island of sanity" thread about San Francisco. I remember thinking, and still do, that if that is an island of sanity, I am glad to be counted among the insane!
36 posted on 10/04/2003 7:38:01 AM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: MikeJ75
Homosexual offense is the least likely sin for most to commit, so it inspires special hatred, serving a scapegoat function for other sinners. The sin they could NEVER imagine themselves committing.

Since God puts the sexually immoral/idolaters/adulterers/male prostitutes/thieves/greedy/drunkards/slanderers/swindlers into the same pot with homosexual offendors (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-10), this gambit doesn't fool Him.
37 posted on 10/04/2003 7:40:22 AM PDT by avenir (Who's Afraid of the Art of Noise?)
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To: sweetliberty
Let me be fair and expand upon what I'd just posted, since what I put in quotation marks comes across as her actual words. Still, there's no doubt that's what she meant.


http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=6587&ref=search

"Berkeley has always been an island of sanity in terms of the war
madness that has prevailed in this country," Spring said. "The U.S.
is now a terrorist. According to the Taliban these are terrorist
attacks."
Spring said she had a "moral obligation" to denounce the attacks and
acknowledged that the resolution is purely symbolic. “


But of course the drooling moron had to backtrack later, whining and wetting her pants that Berkeley and she were shamed by the international community.

The Daily Cal stood by their story.

http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=6639&ref=search


38 posted on 10/04/2003 7:52:22 AM PDT by JoJo Gunn (Help control the Leftist population. Have them spayed or neutered.)
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To: Guillermo
No kidding? I find that EXTREMELY odd.

On a side note, I've always thought that Gore is either a closet fag or has some seriously repressed homosexual tendendies.

39 posted on 10/04/2003 8:02:29 AM PDT by AAABEST (http://www.floridasoundoff.com)
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To: billorites
In fact, lots of preachers are put together rather oddly.

That goes for people in education, mental "health," politics, and entertainment.
40 posted on 10/04/2003 8:09:23 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: MikeJ75
This is just evil.
41 posted on 10/04/2003 8:09:44 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: MikeJ75
I think the Reverend Fred is trying to make his life suitable for a made-for-TV movie.

He is a caricature.
42 posted on 10/04/2003 8:13:50 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Spirit of '76 bttt!)
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To: MikeJ75
That ass*ole used to post here.
I just can't recall his Freeper name .
43 posted on 10/04/2003 8:18:42 AM PDT by John Beresford Tipton
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To: headsonpikes
"Caricature" is an understatement!
44 posted on 10/04/2003 8:21:19 AM PDT by JoJo Gunn (Help control the Leftist population. Have them spayed or neutered.)
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To: fella
A crime against Gods nature is still a crime against Gods nature.

Then let "Gods nature" take care of it. This monument doesn't stand for God's hatred. It stands for man's.

45 posted on 10/04/2003 8:56:53 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: MikeJ75
What about "You who are without sin cast the first stone" doesn't Phelps understand. WWJD?
46 posted on 10/04/2003 9:01:58 AM PDT by ntnychik
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To: MikeJ75
Is this serious?

Yes the media glossed over the fact sheppard was cruising for homosexual sex.

Would not a better and more serious memorial be for the child Dirkshig boy? He was forgotten in favor of supporting the perveyers of perversion.
47 posted on 10/04/2003 11:08:36 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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I can think of a couple dozen frequent-posting FReepers who not only would applaud this atrocity, but also would drive to Casper with bags of concrete mix so that they could help pour the foundation.
48 posted on 10/04/2003 11:25:14 AM PDT by Greybird (... that's g-r-E-y, by the way, not how that idiot in Sacramento spells it. T'row dat bum out!)
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To: Physicist
You mean like whe Gods nature brougt forth AIDS?
49 posted on 10/04/2003 5:53:25 PM PDT by fella
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To: fella
Or SIDS?
50 posted on 10/04/2003 7:26:50 PM PDT by Physicist
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